Master Of Disguise?

[Tiggy]

Me..again!!


It seems to me that the less I allow myself to be the 'real' me in business situations the better I fair.
I have to make a concerted effort at times to be cool, unruffled, direct and often have the cheek of the devil and none of it comes naturally to me, although it does get easier with practice!

An ex boyfriend of mine has established a very successful business which is in fact what he always vowed he would do even at the tender age of 21. I knew I was more intelligent than him, in the usual sense, but he was a person with an inordinate amount of patience, as stubborn as a mule, always played his cards very close to his chest and never ever let anyone in on what he was really thinking - you can see why he's an ex!
He had a very powerful personna in which you never got the impression that he was desperate for one outcome or another when in fact his affable , almost laid back manner hid the fact that he was manipulating the situation without people realising it.

Do you think it's characteristics like this that can contribute greatly to success?

T

 

[Jayne]

Yes, make then think it's there idea with a gentle push. It works on husbands too

I'm always myself when speaking to others, even my bank manager, I ring him just for a chat. I think you show how honest a person you are, by being yourself. Better than them finding out your loopy later :lol:

Jayne

 

[Tiggy]

:lol: :lol:

But I can't help feeling that to really get somewhere you sometimes have to be more forceful and...well...man-like!

Maybe it's because I don't know any successful women entrepeneurs (present company excepted Jayne!) and the only one I can think of is Anita Roddick and the woman is dreadfully off putting with her manic face and wild flailing hair!!

T

 

[Cornish Steve]

... he was a person with an inordinate amount of patience, as stubborn as a mule, always played his cards very close to his chest and never ever let anyone in on what he was really thinking...

Do you think it's characteristics like this that can contribute greatly to success?

For him, maybe. For you, you must decide. You must be true to your personality. Customers will soon see through the veneer if you are not.

If you are true to yourself, you come across as sincere, even passionate, about your business. From my experience, that's what appeals to customers. Long-term business is based on relationships. You don't get far with relationships if you keep your cards very close to your chest (as your anecdote reveals). You don't want to be become an ex to your customers.

If you started a poll on the attributes of a successful business owner, I would include honesty, sincerity, openness, and fairness on my list.

 

[Cornish Steve]

But I can't help feeling that to really get somewhere you sometimes have to be more forceful and...well...man-like!

I respectfully disagree. My business partner is a woman, and I really value her honesty, work ethic, common sense, realism, and ability to get along with people.

Three years ago, I went back to university (almost 20 years after completing my first two degrees in Wales). The MBA program had a ratio of men:women of about 2:1. I have to admit, however, that the women in the program were more capable.

Women bring a lot to business. Men do too. We should tap into both sets of strengths.

 

[Jayne]

Don't try to be a bloke, be a woman and use it to it's full advantage. I know this sounds shallow, but go in looking like a knock out and you will not need to be blokey at all. Yes, many men are very shallow, I had to go to board meetings at a place I worked and I listerned. It's unbelieveable what the say about women, if you try to be like the men, they call you behind your back. Better them to fancy you and you get the business (nothing more only flurting though, or you'd get another name), then them call you a she devil.

And before all you men start, it's only slander if it isn't true :lol:

Jayne

 

[Jayne]

But I can't help feeling that to really get somewhere you sometimes have to be more forceful and...well...man-like!

I respectfully disagree. My business partner is a woman, and I really value her honesty, work ethic, common sense, realism, and ability to get along with people.

Three years ago, I went back to university (almost 20 years after completing my first two degrees in Wales). The MBA program had a ratio of men:women of about 2:1. I have to admit, however, that the women in the program were more capable.

Women bring a lot to business. Men do too. We should tap into both sets of strengths.

But you're a nice person, I think she meant big headed types of MD's

Ignore my advice for nice men, only use on the shallow ones.

Jayne

 

[Cornish Steve]

...but go in looking like a knock out and you will not need to be blokey at all. Yes, many men are very shallow.

At risk of starting a gender war here, I would say this is not true. In fact, if a woman tries to impress primarily through appearance, I become suspicious about the product or service she represents.

I had to go to board meetings at a place I worked and I listerned. It's unbelieveable what the say about women, if you try to be like the men, they call you behind your back.

It's sad that you faced such blatant unprofessionalism, Jayne. If anyone on my team were to make such a remark, they would be publicly reprimanded on the spot.

 

[Jayne]

I have seen all this for real and it does go on, sad but true. It still isn't equal for women in some firms and being flirty is the only time some men take any notice of you. I do not do it myself, but have known some who have, just so the men bosses would listern. This firm I worked for was horrible in that way, four years I was there and men who had only been their for 6 months were getting promoted and I was passed over. No woman ever made it to the top at that firm, unless they though they were in with a chance. Not all men are nice and treat you as equal, I found that out the hard way.

Jayne

 

[Cornish Steve]

I think she meant big headed types of MD's

You're assuming that MDs are men. Stop! While almost all MDs may have been men years ago, more and more women are now MDs (or CEOs in the US). You do not need to be, or to behave like, a man to succeed.

In the UK, Mrs. Thatcher was perhaps the most influential prime minister in years. Let me predict that Condoleeza Rice will become one of the most influential US presidents in years.

In the end, we should focus on what makes an effective MD. One well-respected author claims that the best leaders are Type 5. These leaders are characterized by a strong drive combined with servant-leadership. There is nothing male or female about these characteristics.

 

[Jayne]

Yes, but Maggie got called the iron lady, not very nice really. Why can you not be a woman and still get respect! without a hard sounding nice name.

Think I am still bitter a little with that company, ignor me. This is why I wanted to be a business woman myself, so no man could push me around again. This is why I am myself now and not what they expected me to be.

Jayne

 

[DuaneJackson]

I think it comes down to what environment you are in and who you are dealing with.

It's worth mastering the skills of sublte manipulation and whatever else. But just becuase you have those skills doesn't mean you have to use them all the time.

There will be occasions when they're needed and occasions when it could be detrimental. The art is, I think, knowing the difference between the two.

And being aware of when other people are trying to do it to you.

 

[Tiggy]

Some interesting points being raised here.

I admired Margaret Thatcher enormously although I didn't always agree with her.

I too have suffered some unpleasant treatment at the hands of men at work who seem to keep their brains in their trousers. I found that being a hard working, honest, decent, reliable employee stood for nothing and actually put me to a disadvantage next to my totally unreliable but blonde and flirty female colleague.

I guess as I am not a naturally flirty person it makes sense that I would start to feel that the only other route to go down in order to be heard and gain some respect in certain situations is to become more of a man!!

However recognising that pattern makes me realise that it's rather an extreme reaction and there is a middle ground.

We need more men like Steve!!!

T :lol:

 

[Cornish Steve]

Yes, but Maggie got called the iron lady, not very nice really.

In other words, she was a determined lady. She didn't flirt or try to impress men through her appearance (thank goodness!).

 

[Cornish Steve]

We need more men like Steve!!!

Trust me - you don't! The world has enough trouble handling just the one.

 

[Tiggy]

:lol: :lol: :lol:

T :lol:

 

[Jayne]

Had an idea Tiggy, me and you could work for Steve :lol:

And Tiggy, yes they always seem to be blonds, stinks doesn't it.

Jayne