New online SEO course by "Tin"

[Tin]

@CharterFishing - Hello Ray, you're a blast from the past!

It's been a long time since we chatted, hope you're ok. I had heard that you'd gone into the Charter sector but I didn't know whereabouts otherwise I would have actually given you a ring to see how you're doing. I've just Googled around a bit more and found your site so I'll try giving you a ring later this afternoon to see if you're about. It'd be good to hear from you again.

Cheers for your comments above, always nice to hear good things about my work and the other good news is that you've got 'good, old Estwig' posting again, in the SEO Forum. The strangest things happen on here.

Anyway, good to see you back again.

Ray

 

[Dan Izzard]

@estwig I've traded in my Blue Peter badge. No use to me after they stopped letting me into LegoLand for free...

p.s they aren't my hands....

 

[OldWelshGuy]

@Dan Izzard they ARE your hands from Friday to Monday

 

[Simon.P]

Signed up last night and so glad i did. It's packed full of information in an easy to read style. Recommended.

 

[ADNattan]

Hi folks.

I've got a bit of an SEO background (working as a copywriter in an SEO agency) so I'm comfortable with SEO copywriting if not all of the surrounding stuff.

Is it still worth taking the course? £99 seems very fair given the feedback, and I could do with sharpening the old skills, but if it's pitched at absolute beginners with little value to "intermediate" SEOs, I don't know if it's worth looking elsewhere.

I know everyone swears by this, but I don't want to be the one guy who signs up and shrugs.

 

[Tin]

Give me a ring and I'll tell you honestly if you'd benefit from it. I don't need unhappy customers so I've no interest in selling you anything you don't need.

 

[ADNattan]

Tin, you're a star. I'll give you a ring tomorrow if that's OK?

 

[Scott@KarmaContent]

I did the course and I already had quite a significant amount of SEO experience. Yes it's great for beginners but I think more experienced people will get a lot out of it too. Like any course, I got more out of some bits than others, but the most important thing I found was that it made me think about a lot of things from slightly different angles, and it's these subtle insights than can be invaluable.

For £99, it's an absolute steal.

 

[ADNattan]

I'd just like to thank Ray for taking the time to discuss his course with me in great detail this morning. If the same thought and care goes into the course as he puts into dealing with potential customers, I'll be a happy man indeed.

 

[AllUpHere]

I didn't pay for the course, but have seen the course content in it's entirety, and can honestly say there's a good bit of stuff in there that was new to me.

In my professional opinion it's a damn good buy for anyone who works in any kind of web marketing or copywriting role, and a must for anyone who works on their own (or others') websites.

 

[Paul Kelly ICHYB]

For people who are new to SEO and want to build their knowledge in easy to follow stages, this would be the best £99 you invest in SEO!

 

[lulu1979]

I just done the course too, took out the full 6 months option and I must say I wish I had this 5 years ago when started to build my website! To be honest it should be 10X more expensive, that's how much its worth for my business in the long run!!!! Started the course in October, and the results are just simply amazing! There are hidden gems in the course what I am sure you would not get from anywhere else, especially for this price. And the chats with Ray over the phone will educate you even further.

 

[domainguy]

I used to develop sites using good old html on keyword domains and could rank them on page 1 with little work. Yes gone are those days. Now I'm lazy and use wordpress but i've never been able to seo them as well as I could with a bespoke html site, even using the seo plugins. Is wordpress treated any differently for ranking and if so does this course work for it too? I'm looking at purchasing a new wordpress template for a new site but not sure if I should be considering anything other than aesthetics like I usually do!

 

[Tin]

Keyworded domains, they're not altogether gone as I've an insurance site that ranks very well on a keyworded domain but the essence of my course is to simply explain the on-site techniques I apply when I'm working with clients.

It's not a link based course as that's not what I'm about, it's purely an explanation of how I play with words on web pages because I seem to have a knack of getting difficult keywords to rank by just doing that.

I'm not saying a site doesn't need links but, experience has shown me, most seo's know little about working effectively on site and that's what the course is about. It's not platfrom dependent, it doesn't focus on Wordpress, all it does is explain in detail how I look at "playing with words" on web pages, that's all I do but what I do seems to work for me, my clients and people who've taken the course.

Happy to answer any of your questions so feel free to ring me, the number's on the contact page.

Ray

 

[ADNattan]

A little over a month in, and I've started to see first page results as a result of the course and Ray's guidance.

Above I mentioned the amount of hard work Ray's put into the course. I'm happy to add that his hard work pays off if you're prepared to listen to what he says and pay attention to his course.

Highly recommended.

 

[Cococarb]

** A selection of keyword terms we have ranked organically on page 1 of Google. **

Which sites are you are reffering to Ray? with up most respect - anyone can say they ranked for this and that.. love to see some case studies.

 

[Tin]

For genuine, prospective candidates for the course, I'll happily show them examples of work and give them contact details of happy customers of both the course and my previous client work if requested.

I'm sure you'll agree that, given the amount of genuine, and unsolicited, testimonials and reviews that have already been posted on this thread, plus on other forums and also to be found on my website, therefore I feel that your enquiry is somewhat irrelevant.

 

[Cococarb]

I'm not here to demise anyone Ray, Specially a forum staff member. I'm not denying that you have educated lots of people on basics which they didn't know before reading your material. You may have educated them on tags, schemas and technical aspects like metas and best practise of using images, videos, content etc.. of course they will thank you for it. I'm sure its worth the money paid for.

Just move onto this:
There is a list of keywords which you claimed to have ranked your sites for - but no actual site/s attached to that list. I simply asked what they are and you want me buy your material to find it out? Since you are open to share your methods I'm sure you could share few case studies on your website?

I don't sell SEO tutorials or services and I am not after your reputation or clients. I really don't think you could improve rankings for a small business anymore (not talking about 4 words phrase or moving from 5th page to 4th page). Which means there is no SEO for someone with a budget of £3000 or less. When a "SEO" say they can do stuff, I tend to find every piece of information I could to see what they do, how they do and most important is it TRUE what they say. SMEs suffer from whatever going on each day, we latch onto whatever we could, so we could have bit of time off from constant worries and hope for a game-changer. I would hate to see someone wasting their time which they could have spent on something worth-while.

 

[fisicx]

Read Ray's reply to your previous post. If you want details he will give them to you. He doesn't need to post case studies on his site.

 

[Tin]

I'm well aware of your cynicism regarding SEO and that you previously worked within the sector but that you no longer do so because your techniques no longer work. Your opinion is all over these forums in other threads and, of course, you're perfectly entitled to your opinion. I also have an opinion, again perfectly entitled, which is that your SEO techniques must have been of a dubious nature if they no longer work.

You have deliberately misinterpreted what I said above, I'm not suggesting that you or anyone needs to buy the course before I would share with them examples of my work. I simply won't (and don't need to) publicly plaster them on an open forum because someone has an axe to grind and believes...

If you are still in the belief that "SEO" still exists, You are no better than Jehovah's witnesses. I worked in the industry for 9 years and last of SEO techniques died about 2 1/2 years ago.

For genuine enquiries I'm more than happy to chat on the phone, show examples if required, and answer any queries people have before signing up for the course. I've even turned people away if I don't believe that they have the right set up to get a benefit from the course.

Every keyword in that list is 100% genuine and there's a long list of previous client testimonials to back them up, also on the site. I'm not in the business of trying to hoodwink or deceive anyone, it's just not my style.

Applying the techniques I provide in the course absolutely works and the course was devised precisely to help website owners who don't have thousands to spend. The members who've posted on this thread, other SEOs as well as past clients and people who have taken the course, have done so completely without prompting.

Yes, SEO is constantly changing, and is definitely much harder now than it was, but, the funny thing is, what I do has never changed. What worked 10 years ago absolutely still works today, if done right.

I'm sorry but I don't believe for a minute that you're enquiry is genuine but thank you for raising this thread back into view

 

[Toby Willows]

Yes, SEO is constantly changing, and is definitely much harder now than it was, but, the funny thing is, what I do has never changed. What worked 10 years ago absolutely still works today, if done right.

Your contradicting yourself there but it does prove what you say, and I entirely agree. The core basis of SEO hasn't changed, like you what I did in 2006 still works today ie content, layout, keywords (relevant one's), correctly working site (no broken links etc), domain name (doesn't hurt to have a relevant one) and user experience. That hasn't changed, not from my experience anyway.

The only moving goalpost in seo are Google adjusting their algorithms to defeat the seo "experts" who try to rank less relevant sites by dubious means. So if your "expert" is telling you seo is a ongoing monthly commitment I think it's safe to say they are not actually making your site seo friendly, rather the opposite.

 

[Shopclicks]

The only moving goalpost in seo are Google adjusting their algorithms to defeat the seo "experts" who try to rank less relevant sites by dubious means.

No, that's not the only moving goal post. You can't control the efforts your competitors are putting in to gain rank. They pick up a relevant link, add some content, add a landing page, change a title, etc, etc. Google constantly tests different sites in new spots.

 

[Toby Willows]

No, that's not the only moving goal post. You can't control the efforts your competitors are putting in to gain rank. They pick up a relevant link, add some content, add a landing page, change a title, etc, etc. Google constantly tests different sites in new spots.

That may be true, but no goal posts have moved they are just where they have always been. All that's happend there is a competitors site has become more relevant than your own. If they've used dubious means however they won't be there for long.

It's simply good housekeeping to make occasional updates to your content to keep it relevant. I tend to make a few changes to ours no more than every six months, often longer, and have always ranked 1st or 2nd on page one for the several keywords required.

 

[Shopclicks]

So if your "expert" is telling you seo is a ongoing monthly commitment I think it's safe to say they are not actually making your site seo friendly, rather the opposite.

It's simply good housekeeping to make occasional updates to your content to keep it relevant.

So which is it? If you want someone else to look after your SEO, a monthly commitment could be good housekeeping, particularly in a competitive sector. There's more to housekeeping than 'updating content'.

 

[Toby Willows]

So which is it? If you want someone else to look after your SEO, a monthly commitment could be good housekeeping, particularly in a competitive sector. There's more to housekeeping than 'updating content'.

What you on about.? I said it's good houskeeping to keep your content relevant, and gave my example of six monthly at best. Miles away from paying some "expert" £x,0000 a month for dubious practices.

 

[Cococarb]

Oh you have access to the forum. Great! Here is the thing, of course my enquiry is genuine and I am not just asking these questions just for some light amusement. I saw your friends gang up on that seogod kid last week. I know he is an extreme example. This isn't that my willy is bigger than yours case.
I believe you have access to my details and perhaps you could look into what other business I am involved in. Afterall, everyone needs help in marketing.
Like you said, my techniques didn't last long or perhaps I moved onto work on my own physical business because I didn't want my income to fluctuate based on what Google does next? whichever you think I don't mind. All I know is, I am yet to find someone who can do whatever they say they could and for a minute I don't think algo manipulation works anymore NOT even in 1/10 effectiveness. If you could my educated guess was that you won't be selling material but making enough money off your actual work and you won't have time to spend on forums?

I'm not in the business of trying to hoodwink or deceive anyone, it's just not my style.

For genuine enquiries I'm more than happy to chat on the phone, show examples if required

Like the good friend suggested PM me. Let's have a civil discussion!

 

[Shopclicks]

Miles away from paying some "expert" £x,0000 a month for dubious practices.

Is it the case, that if you're paying "£x,0000's" for continual SEO housekeeping, you're being ripped off? I wouldn't rule out that some sites require that sort of expenditure to stay serp competitive across thousands of keywords, if the site owner doesn't have the time or knowledge for DIY.

 

[justinaldridge]

It's simply good housekeeping to make occasional updates to your content to keep it relevant. I tend to make a few changes to ours no more than every six months, often longer, and have always ranked 1st or 2nd on page one for the several keywords required.

That's fine and it does work but it's not always the case. A new competitor can come along and challenge your position.

It also depends on the competitiveness of the keywords. If you take the example of "car insurance", the likes of Go Compare, Moneysupermarket and confused.com can hardly rest on their laurels and update their pages every 6 months when they have the likes of comparethemarket.com, admiral, RAC, etc, all biting at their heals for those lucrative top slots which generate millions in revenue for them.

It's all relative but for highly competitive terms there is a significant amount of daily/weekly "housekeeping" required to protect ranking positions. Otherwise the competition force you down.

 

[Toby Willows]

That's fine and it does work but it's not always the case. A new competitor can come along and challenge your position.

It also depends on the competitiveness of the keywords. If you take the example of "car insurance", the likes of Go Compare, Moneysupermarket and confused.com can hardly rest on their laurels and update their pages every 6 months when they have the likes of comparethemarket.com, admiral, RAC, etc, all biting at their heals for those lucrative top slots which generate millions in revenue for them.

It's all relative but for highly competitive terms there is a significant amount of daily/weekly "housekeeping" required to protect ranking positions. Otherwise the competition force you down.

Hmmm, you sure they are all so worried about keywords? I really don't think more than a tiny tiny percentage of their business comes from keywords and google generic searches. After all if seo, Google, keywords etc were so important they wouldn't be spending millions on TV, radio and printed advertising. And it's that real world advertising that brings them massive numbers of direct "real" users that ultimately bring them the high rankings, not keywords or seo.

 

[justinaldridge]

Hmmm, you sure they are all so worried about keywords? I really don't think more than a tiny tiny percentage of their business comes from keywords and google generic searches.

Of course it matters! There are nearly half a million searches per month for the term "car insurance" and PPC costs are £8 per click!

Being number 1 for such a huge term generates enormous revenues.

 

[Toby Willows]

Of course it matters! There are nearly half a million searches per month for the term "car insurance" and PPC costs are £8 per click!

Being number 1 for such a huge term generates enormous revenues.

You've missed the point, probably because you are blinkered by the internet. GoCompare, Compare the market, money supermarket etc will all rank high on page one because they are getting millions of users each month from their "real world" advertising. Having those keywords, seo etc will make little to no difference where they rank.

How do you think Moonpig, Trivago and the like became so huge, a few well chosen keywords and dodgy seo, or a massive advertising campaign and user friendly website? Seo and keywords were a minor consideration in their marketing strategy.

 

[justinaldridge]

You've missed the point, probably because you are blinkered by the internet. GoCompare, Compare the market, money supermarket etc will all rank high on page one because they are getting millions of users each month from their "real world" advertising. Having those keywords, seo etc will make little to no difference where they rank.

I don't advertise my sites on TV and I do ok!

I'm going to email GoCompare, Compare the Market and every other company that wants to rank for these high value terms and tell them that they can save a fortune by firing all of their internal SEO staff. They obviously aren't needed.

 

[Toby Willows]

I don't advertise my sites on TV and I do ok!

I'm going to email GoCompare, Compare the Market and every other company that wants to rank for these high value terms and tell them that they can save a fortune by firing all of their internal SEO staff. They obviously aren't needed.

Of course they need seo staff, but they provide just the smallest part of how they get customers to their sites.

You're simply vastly overrating the value of seo. If the companies you mention simply maintained their sites to be as relevant and user friendly as they are now, and ditch seo, their positions would hardly charge, and they certainly wouldn't be below the best seo'd only site as their advertising campaigns will draw millions more users than any seo. And as you know, site visitor numbers, and repeat visitors, are a huge part of how Google rank a site. Certainly more so than keywords, especially when we are talking about these type of companies.

 

[justinaldridge]

And as you know, site visitor numbers, and repeat visitors, are a huge part of how Google rank a site. Certainly more so than keywords, especially when we are talking about these type of companies.

That's a completely innacurate and misleading statement. This is the problem with this industry, SO much misinformation.

 

[Toby Willows]

That's a completely innacurate and misleading statement. This is the problem with this industry, SO much misinformation.

Oh, OK, thanks. Must just be coincidence that all of page one of Google for "car insurance" or "Hotels" are those that advertise on TV, radio and the printed press. Can't see one that is there just by seo alone and doesn't advertise, guess you don't offer your services to hotels or car insurance companies, because if you, or anyone else did, and seo works as well as you claim, there would be at least one provider on page one that I wouldn't have seen a TV advert for.

 

[justinaldridge]

This is my last post on this topic as we are going round in circles here.

These are enormous businesses with a huge amount of money. Of course they will advertise on TV, they also spend huge amounts on social media, radio, press releases, online video campaigns, email marketing, newspaper advertising, etc. etc. They also do SEO! It's part of the marketing mix.

Why does Coca Cola advertise on TV? They certainly don't need to do it but they do it to keep the brand fesh in people's minds.

Sigh.

 

[fisicx]

And as you know, site visitor numbers, and repeat visitors, are a huge part of how Google rank a site. Certainly more so than keywords, especially when we are talking about these type of companies.

Huge? I think you have been misinformed. They may well be ranking signals but they aren't huge. If they were then these companies could get an army of people in Asia with spoofed IP addresses to visit a site thousands of times a day to boost ranking. But they don't. Because they know it doesn't work.

 

[Tin]

Oh you have access to the forum. Great! Here is the thing, of course my enquiry is genuine and I am not just asking these questions just for some light amusement. I saw your friends gang up on that seogod kid last week. I know he is an extreme example. This isn't that my willy is bigger than yours case.
I believe you have access to my details and perhaps you could look into what other business I am involved in. Afterall, everyone needs help in marketing.
Like you said, my techniques didn't last long or perhaps I moved onto work on my own physical business because I didn't want my income to fluctuate based on what Google does next? whichever you think I don't mind. All I know is, I am yet to find someone who can do whatever they say they could and for a minute I don't think algo manipulation works anymore NOT even in 1/10 effectiveness. If you could my educated guess was that you won't be selling material but making enough money off your actual work and you won't have time to spend on forums?

Like the good friend suggested PM me. Let's have a civil discussion!

Putting aside your intent for a moment, you are making some pretty broad assumptions here.

I have absolutely no idea who you are beyond the details that you've already stated and no idea of what other business you may be involved in.

And what gives you the idea that I'm not making money off my actual work?

I'm actually one of those daft sods who likes to help out where I can, and the Fresh Bananas course was an obvious choice to do this. I've lost count of the amount of people who have approached me over the years with zero budget but wanting to get rankings and people who have come to me having got themselves into a right mess by following misinformation on forums or worse, hooking up with the wrong SEO company.

The course was also an obvious way to go to best channel my time. It took years to write but now it's done it doesn't need much tweaking and allows me to pursue my other ventures and pastimes.

Whether you believe it or not, the information I give in the course will work, if applied correctly. It's not a magic bullet however, nor any trickery, just simple, logical steps that anyone with a website should follow if they have any chance of getting rankings for their website.

I've no intention of trying to convince you however. As you suggest, I have little time to spend on forums beyond my moderating duties, nor on people that have your kind of attitude.

 

[Tin]

I saw your friends gang up on that seogod kid last week.

Let's get another thing clear here.

They aren't my friends, they're forum members and I don't actually know them so refrain from making assumptions!

 

[Toby Willows]

Huge? I think you have been misinformed. They may well be ranking signals but they aren't huge. If they were then these companies could get an army of people in Asia with spoofed IP addresses to visit a site thousands of times a day to boost ranking. But they don't. Because they know it doesn't work.

Don't be silly, I think you'll find Google are wise to that. I'm talking about genuine visitors who Google will identify by the obvious means (car insurance for example, links being followed, forms filled, forwarded to end insurer, customers logging in again etc etc). I'm sure you must be aware Google know exactly what pages you visit, how long you are there, and where you leave or links you follow to other sites. Very difficult to fake those visitors unless they all actually follow the sites process.

As an example I used to run a local online news site. Always ranked fourth or fifth. Had a local issue on which I ran a poll, had coverage of this poll in the local printed press, radio and other websites. Our visitors/users increased from a meagre 500 a week to over 8,000. We were then top spot of Google for a over a month. As our visitors then dropped (we went down to about 1,500 a week) so did our ranking. No changes to the site were made at all, not a one, even the poll had been running for three weeks before we got the exposure and increased visitors. Must have just been a coincidence.