Omicron could be the Covid end game.....
- Thread starter Justin Smith
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- Original Poster
- #202
>>It is ludicrous that people are not going to work when they either have symptoms of a cold<<
My wife works for the NHS and they are not expected to stay off work (on full pay) if they have a cold (if they do they quickly come up against "sickness monitoring".....).
And neither should they, quite apart from anything else, what constitutes a cold ?
A sore throat ?
A runny nose ?
Feeling a bit tired ?
I take it you pay them full wages for doing so ? And have the available staff to continue running your business ?
My wife works for the NHS and they are not expected to stay off work (on full pay) if they have a cold (if they do they quickly come up against "sickness monitoring".....).
And neither should they, quite apart from anything else, what constitutes a cold ?
A sore throat ?
A runny nose ?
Feeling a bit tired ?
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...but you cannot be completely vaccinated?
It's not as simple as saying 'just get the jab, then you can get your job back'.
We are now heading toward jab number 4. That is not the end. They have admitted the injections provide only limited protection, they don't stop infection, they don't completely stop hospitalisation and they last perhaps 10 weeks in the system before breaking down.
Also, despite a high uptake among players, games are now being postponed because of COVID outbreaks? They have over an 80% uptake of injections, yet the infection rates are going up daily. What incentive is there for joining the other players? The ones who have been jabbed thrice are now isolating at home?
Also, to enter a stadium, you need only provide a QR code or pass...you can walk in to a stadium, dripping with COVID but nobody will say anything, because you have a green tick on your phone?
Any vaccination in history has never required 100% vaccination by everyone on earth. The point of them is to break the chain of infection and leave the virus without a host. I am struggling to see where these injections are doing anything of the sort? Infections are going UP! Worldwide! Israel are planning their 5th injection in under 2 years. We are heading toward number 4 in 18 months. Still, hospitalisations rising and infections going up.
It's the unvaccinated? The math suggests that doesnt work as a narrative. Too many people have had injections, unvaccinated people can only pass on Covid if they actually have it. If most people are testing regularly, even unvaccinated people will be isolating, removing them from the pool of people who can infect you. So, where are people catching it from?
Flights in to the UK require a pass or negative test result - so, to bring it in, suggests more people are carrying the virus in a transmissable form than the technology is finding. No?
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Nurse on the radio today saying that she's back in PPU because she's got three people in ICU with COVID, all unvaccinated. One suffered severe and permanent brain damage after needing to be resuscitated. He's 40, the rest of his family are also unvaccinated.
Why???
Why???
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I do pay full pay yes. Sometimes parts of the business need to wait until such person returns, but the impact could be worse if that person causes several others to be ill.
To me that just makes sense but I realise this isn’t your view. Personally if I went to a shop to buy some radio equipment, or a fitter arrived at my home to setup a receiver dish, and they were coughing or sneezing around me I’d be annoyed. This was my view long before Covid. Same if I went to buy groceries or had an IT engineer come to my office to do some maintenance. I do not expect or want someone sniffing or coughing around me.
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If it is on the Radio coming from a nurse than it must be true without any doubt. Any source that can actually validate her statement.
Since when do nurses such announcements on the radios. Is that a new thing. She must have plenty of time. Gotta love those hype announcements.
But to simply counter your vaccine argument. 19 professional footballers ( all vaccinated ) died on the job in 2021 with some sort of heart problems. This is the highest ever recorded by many miles per year. To date Fifa failed to explain this massive increase in sudden deaths.
From a scientific point I'd start to raise questions why suddenly healthy athletes that are all covid vaccinated drop like stones. Source.
No wonder people don trust the RNA vaccines if no proper explanations is provided.
There is science that should be always questioned and than there are scientist that can be bought by the highest bidder.
Almost 20 months in and they are still not able to be prepared for the worst case scenarios and providing enough medical facilities. As with every year in the last decade around this time the NHS is overrun around this time one way or the other. 37 billion spend on test & trace which Apple and Google offered to provide free of charge via their eco system could have been used to put some more beds in a frecking hospital.
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It wasn't an announcement from a nurse it was part of an interview with them - why on earth did you think it was an announcement? And what hype? Why is stating a fact of what is happening in one hospital hype?
Your source for showing the vaccinated footballers appears to be a Wikipedia page that does not mention if the footballers were vaccinated. There were 11 deaths in 2017 and 13 before COVID - what questions are you asking about that? And making out 19 is the highest recorded by many miles seems a lot of hype you are making!
Google/Apple never said they would do the track and trace for free, you need to get some of your facts checked there.
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It was an interview with a nurse on Radio 4. She was just describing her day. I have no reason to doubt her.
She was the source. A first-hand witness. Why would you doubt that?
It was an interview with a nurse dealing with the disease. Straight forward news reporting. No announcements.
Can you explain how the deaths of footballers counters any vaccine argument?
'From a scientific point of view' I'd like you to show how any science you have that links footballers and COVID. There was nothing in your Wiki link that did that.
The overwhelming majority of people DO trust the vaccines - both mRNA and adenovirus - that's why all but the nutters and the ignorant have taken them.
Luckily for us then that science is independent of scientists.
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Although I agree with your thesis there are issues with the reporting of recent deaths which means that the recent figure is likely to be revised upwards.
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And once again you quote random numbers without context. You are once again showing your complete ignorance of how statistics work.
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I see those "professional footballers" included a 54 year old and one that played for West Bridgford Colts 
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Its possible, but why do you think it is likely? Is there any analysis that adjusts for the difference in demographics?
So far, if we compare South Africa experience with delta to omicron, death and hospitalisation rates are much lower.
The biggest difference between the UK and South Africa is that we have a much higher vaccination rate,. Both here, and in South Africa, and, AFAIK, everywhere else, it is rare for people who have been vaccinated to need hospitalisation with Omicron.
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Anti-vaxxers are the most likely to get it, will tend to have it for longer, and as they do not believe it is necessary I an fairly sure they will not test.
Even apart from that most people are not testing that often: the mean time between tests is 45 days. Plenty of time to get it and recover from it between tests.
Both true, but that is only a problem if you take science as received wisdom If you do question, ask what the evidence is, check whether results are replicated etc.
The first thing that Wikipedia article says "The following is an incomplete list" and the increase in deaths became a metter of concern to FIFA in 2007.
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I spent about 20 seconds looking at the list and spotted one guy that was hit by lightning (does tend to stop the heart that one) and another that head-butted the goal post. I didn't bother looking further, the stupidity of the "argument" overcame me.I see those "professional footballers" included a 54 year old and one that played for West Bridgford Colts
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- Original Poster
- #216
Funny how it's always stats which are indicating positive things about Covid (or that suppressing society does not really work to suppress Covid) that are "showing ignorance of how statistic really work".
Ferguson et al, of course knows all about how statistics really work :
March 2020 : up to 500,000 UK Covid deaths
and
July 2021 : "Freedom day" is grossly irresponsible and there could be up to 200,000 infections a day by August.
Ferguson et al, of course knows all about how statistics really work :
March 2020 : up to 500,000 UK Covid deaths
and
July 2021 : "Freedom day" is grossly irresponsible and there could be up to 200,000 infections a day by August.
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- Original Poster
- #218
It seems to me that The Times are looking increasingly prescient in their Analysis piece from way back in March :
The Times "Analysis" (1 Mar 21, p10) :
Why should we not be too worried [about the Covid variants, incl the South African and Manaus variants] ?
One answer is that even if the vaccines don't stop infection they will provide strong protection against severe disease.
Never before have we had the tools to watch a virus evolve. This is a phenomenally powerful tool but [it] can also cause unnecessary fear.
Updated to 27 December 2021 :
This is a phenomenally powerful tool but [it] has also caused unnecessary fear and economic and societal dislocation
The Times "Analysis" (1 Mar 21, p10) :
Why should we not be too worried [about the Covid variants, incl the South African and Manaus variants] ?
One answer is that even if the vaccines don't stop infection they will provide strong protection against severe disease.
Never before have we had the tools to watch a virus evolve. This is a phenomenally powerful tool but [it] can also cause unnecessary fear.
Updated to 27 December 2021 :
This is a phenomenally powerful tool but [it] has also caused unnecessary fear and economic and societal dislocation
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The extensive hospitalisation data released yesterday evening suggested no need for restrictions. Move on. Get back to normal. Cut the bullsh*t.
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500,000 deaths over two years if we did nothing.
theferret.scot
Fact check: claim about Neil Ferguson’s Covid-19 predictions
[sc name=”FFS”] Among those who are sceptical about the impact of Covid-19, scientists advising the government on policy have become a target of criticism. One of the more high-profile people to face scrutiny is Professor Neil Ferguson, a mathematical epidemiologist from Imperial College...
theferret.scot
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- Original Poster
- #224
The Times are referring to an earlier South African variant (which also failed to change the world) :
www.theguardian.com
South African Covid-19 variant may be 'more effective at spreading'
Research still to confirm threat posed but variant does not appear to provoke more serious symptoms
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- Original Poster
- #225
That suppression did little, and it CERTAINLY did not cut the death rate from 500,000 to 150,000, but don't just take my word for it :500,000 deaths over two years if we did nothing.
Fact check: claim about Neil Ferguson’s Covid-19 predictions
[sc name=”FFS”] Among those who are sceptical about the impact of Covid-19, scientists advising the government on policy have become a target of criticism. One of the more high-profile people to face scrutiny is Professor Neil Ferguson, a mathematical epidemiologist from Imperial College...
This is what the experts say -
The Times 22 Nov 21 (p12)
Britain's previous high infection rate makes it unlikely that it will follow European countries into another lockdown scientists have said.
Sir John Bell, regius professor of medicine at Oxford, said that despite soaring cases in the rest of Europe Britons should be safe to order their Christmas turkeys because there was more immunity in the population. "Back in the dark days of March, April and May 2020 everybody said Gosh aren't those Germans clever, they haven't got any Covid and aren't the British dumb because they've got lots of it ?" Bell told Times Radio. "Actually I don't think it has quite worked out that way. One of the interesting things is that it may well be that the delay in the lockdown in the UK, the pretty extensive level of disease, has given us longer term protection"
Sir Andrew Pollard, director of the Oxford Vaccine Group, agreed with Bell that is was unlikely Britain would follow Europe's path in part because it has had such a high caseload since the summer. He added that reaching a point where the virus no longer spread was "not going to happen" and that it would be around for decades.
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@MikeJ All @Justin Smith does is look for reports that fit his somewhat skewed opinion. It’s clear he doesn’t understand science or statistics. Hence this whole thread.
Nothing we say is going to change his mind. Which makes it even more pointless.
As an aside, my father in law is in a care home, fully vaccinated and bolstered. He and many others have caught covid in the last week. The source is a care worker. Luckily he only has mild symptoms. No idea why anyone would think this is the end game.
Nothing we say is going to change his mind. Which makes it even more pointless.
As an aside, my father in law is in a care home, fully vaccinated and bolstered. He and many others have caught covid in the last week. The source is a care worker. Luckily he only has mild symptoms. No idea why anyone would think this is the end game.
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- Original Poster
- #228
That just makes me 'Effin angry because it indicates very strongly that keeping these people (incl my own mother in law) in semi prison care homes is achieving close to sweet FA.
What, pray, was the point ion vaccinating (three times...) all these people if they cannot get their (ful) lives back ?
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My point was to demonstrate that vaccinations do not ensure immunity. He is in the home because he has dementia. His full life went long before covid was a thing.
Instead of getting angry why don’t you look after your MIL at home? Take some personal responsibility.
Instead of getting angry why don’t you look after your MIL at home? Take some personal responsibility.
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Sigh….
This is normal. It’s not the same as it was but that’s how thing change over time.
For example, working from home is now normal.
This is normal. It’s not the same as it was but that’s how thing change over time.
For example, working from home is now normal.
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- Original Poster
- #232
My Mother In Law has dementia, She has been stuck in that semi prison since March 2020 despite the fact they had Covid through there in Apr 2020 and 38% of them died, which means almost certainly all of them had it so all these precautions they have been taking since then are very likely to have been achieving pretty much FA.
Meanwhile Pat was unable to see her only grandson for well over a year, is being looked after by a load of people in masks, even now (when they’re all TRIPLE vaccinated) cannot come out with us anywhere etc etc. That said she won’t be coming out of there again as she has gone downhill so fast since all this started. It is possible she may have gone down anyway (though it’s a bit of a coincidence), but if that’s true it’s no better as she spent the last 6 to 12 months of her life when she was still able to do stuff cooped up in that semi prison.
This is length of life over quality of life gone stark staring ‘effin MAD.
Incidentally, we have an 8 year old child, and, since you asked me, why don't you look after your Dad at home……
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We chose to put him in a home. We are very happy with the current arrangements. Getting vaccinated and with the staff taking precautions nobody has died of covid and thus is the first outbreak in 2 years. Maybe the problem is the care home where your MIL is resident rather than the national policies.
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That was Thursday.
There are now over 2600 people in hospital in London with Covid 19. We're just starting to see a bit of an increase in people on ventilators now.
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The only thing Ferguson understand is how to use statistics and dodgy models to produce Doomsday scenarios.
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- Original Poster
- #238
Omicron: bleak new year or beginning of the end for the pandemic?
Scientists are cautiously optimistic that the variant may be a sign the virus is losing its power, despite the high infection figures
Scientists are cautiously optimistic that the variant may be a sign the virus is losing its power, despite the high infection figures
Bleedin' hell, once the Guardian (the most pessimistic scaremongering media source on the planet) start saying it might be the end it is almost certainly the end.
REJOICE.
(Bit slow off the mark though, some of us were saying that three weeks ago....)
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In the UK we have these sources of data
www.gov.uk
and
We know of the hospital admissions that in London about 2/3 are not admitted with Omicron. Previous variants this was more like 15-25%. We can see a growth in positive admission figures, but don't know how many are admitted for Omicron.
The hypothesis for Omicron is that it is very infectious, but particularly for the UK population not that lethal (particularly for people who are already vaccinated).
The data so far looks not inconsistent with that thesis, but we probably need more data to be certain. In any event there are always questions as to what policy changes make any difference.
For those people that sadly die the historic lag was around 7 days. The jump in admission figures was clear I would say on 19th 20th December. So we should have the data soon to have some clarity on this. (later this week).
COVID-19: Omicron daily overview
An overview and summary of case data for Omicron focusing on confirmed and SGTF cases in the UK.
We know of the hospital admissions that in London about 2/3 are not admitted with Omicron. Previous variants this was more like 15-25%. We can see a growth in positive admission figures, but don't know how many are admitted for Omicron.
The hypothesis for Omicron is that it is very infectious, but particularly for the UK population not that lethal (particularly for people who are already vaccinated).
The data so far looks not inconsistent with that thesis, but we probably need more data to be certain. In any event there are always questions as to what policy changes make any difference.
For those people that sadly die the historic lag was around 7 days. The jump in admission figures was clear I would say on 19th 20th December. So we should have the data soon to have some clarity on this. (later this week).
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