Omicron could be the Covid end game.....

[fisicx]

Same when I joined the army. A whole load of injections in week one. And then a whole load more if you got posted to or went on operations overseas.

There is no logical or sensible reason why anyone would object to a covid injection.

 

[Jeff FV]

A little thought experiment/question for you:

The risk of being struck by lightning is reduced by 25% (1/4), so four times as many people go outside.

Do more, less or the same amount of people get struck by lightning?

 

[MBE2017]

There is no logical or sensible reason why anyone would object to a covid injection.

Plenty of people in the NHS have concerns since these vaccines since they are still in the experimental trial phase. Just playing devils advocate, I am vaccinated, but still feel compulsory vaccinations are a step to far for many, but that’s just my opinion.

 

[Ozzy]

Just playing devils advocate, I am vaccinated, but still feel compulsory vaccinations are a step to far for many, but that’s just my opinion.

I'm also vaccinated, and I also agree compulsory vaccination to the general public shouldn't be. I do feel differently about needing to have things in place for specific working environment.
I don't feel victimised or judged when I'm supporting a vulnerable teenage girl and a female (usually teacher or care worker) needs to be in the room as a precaution. I also don't object to having to have background checks done, and a full phsyco-analysis of me. In fact I'm reassured it is done to protect the vulnerable.
I don't see healthcare any different really.

 

[Forgot password]

Ozzy - when you re appeared on here you set rules basically saying no personal attacks and taking away a bit of tongue in cheek banter yet I see you pass your childish mick takes on Justin or others who have a different opinion to yourself. Put together considered arguments or opinions fine and let others have theirs.

It’s Xmas eve mate take a chill pill and enjoy yourself.

 

[Ozzy]

you set rules basically saying no personal attacks and taking away a bit of tongue in cheek banter yet I see you pass your childish mick takes

Ok, fair enough, I accept that and I shouldn't have made the whole tin hat basement joke. Sorry.

others who have a different opinion to yourself. Put together considered arguments or opinions fine and let others have theirs.

I don't mind different opinions, and welcome them. This thread and others have had different opinions discussed sensibly, and that is healthy. Considered arguments have been put forward by many including myself.
Conspiracy theory propaganda is something as a "publisher of content" I must and will discredit, it has legal ramifications on my business as a publisher to not do so irrespective of my own views. Especially if it endorses people to put other lives at risk, or even as covered earlier in this thread turning a blind eye to people taking their own lives. I must and will also discredit that.

 

[bodgitt&scarperLTD]

Ozzy - when you re appeared on here you set rules basically saying no personal attacks and taking away a bit of tongue in cheek banter yet I see you pass your childish mick takes on Justin or others who have a different opinion to yourself. Put together considered arguments or opinions fine and let others have theirs.

It’s Xmas eve mate take a chill pill and enjoy yourself.

Scrolled through to post something very similar and you beat me to it by twenty minutes.

 

[Scubadog]

What makes me laugh are those who claim to be "critical thinkers" or who have "done research on statistics" surrou ding covid....

In fact these very people do not even know the meaning of critical analysis and have barely managed to pass a GCSE level c in mathematics let alone statistical analysis.

Should they be forced to vaccine....probably not.


Should anyone have any sympathy for them loosing freedoms or jobs through not taking it......definitely not.


If they carried out their critical analysis correctly, they would have a reasoned understanding about those decisions. After all....critical thinking is exactly that, understanding why an argument is given, on both sides.

 

[Scubadog]

And can anyone explain, why whenever an "antivaxer" appears on any radio talks how.....they sound thick as shit? Like, literally the thickest, dumbest person in your class that fails to comprehend even the most basic conception of what is being taught.


Usually sounding

"Well nah, I dont fink we need a jab cus it's not proven and main stream media all ave an agenda to push"

 

[Ozzy]

And can anyone explain, why whenever an "antivaxer" appears on any radio talks how.....they sound thick as ****? Like, literally the thickest, dumbest person in your class

Sticking with your critical argument comment earlier, as I personally support vaccination.
The simple answer is, it makes good TV/Radio. Same reason the same guy went on TV re the insulate Britain. He made insulate Britain look bad and made good TV.
They are usually the most passionate about the cause, vocal but not articulate. The vocally educated presenters tie them up in verbal knots and they end up looking stupid.

 

[gpietersz]

The simple answer is, it makes good TV/Radio

The same media sensationalism leads to what I think is an underappreciated harmful effect of conspiracy theorists and similar.

When they attack something (an organisation, a policy, a theory, or whatever), it then makes it very difficult for anyone to attack it rationally without looking like one of them: they discredit all criticism.

I read an excellent book about flaws in the "modern synthesis" theory of evolution as usually perceived and taught at lower levels (e.g. in school). Its all suff that is regularly discussed by evolutionary biologists in academic journals but not in books aimed at a wider public. The authors were told by colleagues not to publish it because it might encourage creationists. They wrote a rather worrying preface explaining this and that they did not want to encourage creationism, just explain some science.

I have been guilty of falling for this myself - I think a source discussing something like politics is biased so I dismiss all their arguments and claims even though some might be valid.

 

[simon field]

Two weeks to flatten the curve.

 

[Justin Smith]

Not surprising many believe conspiracy theories when they are constantly lied too, remember, two jabs only required, then you needed a booster, the fourth jab seems to be starting in March next year. Anyone want to place a bet that will be the last?

Meanwhile today I personally met the first NHS staff member I know who had just resigned, refusing to take the jab, which becomes mandatory for all NHS personnel in April next year.

It felt a strange way to end the year, seeing this tearful woman giving up her job, she doesn’t come into direct contact with the public, and had the public clapping for her earlier in the year, during a much more dangerous version of covid, when no one cared if she had been jabbed or not to do her job.

Not sure how many will follow her example, but there are plenty of NHS staff very resentful, but come April they might need to lose their objections on economic grounds alone.

March 2020 ; We could have half a million Covid deaths
19 March 2020: 12 weeks to flatten the curve.
2 April 2020: 100,000 COVID-19 tests a day by the end of April.
20 April 2020: secured 400,000 gowns from Turkey (the famous planeload).
November 2020: Modelling suggests 4,000 deaths per day worst case scenario.
16 December 2020: Boris Johnson says Christmas is safe.
19 December 2020: Boris Johnson announces Christmas is cancelled.
Spring 2021: get double vaccinated to get out of Covid and back to normal.
July 2021: if final stage of lockdown is released then we could have 200K cases per day by August.
Autumn 2021: get a booster to save Christmas.
8 December 2021: Face coverings legally required in most indoor spaces (again).
13 December 2021: Work from home guidance and vaccine passports still threatened

 

[fisicx]

@Justin Smith - and your point is? Because the government has made all these statements that’s a good reason not to help reduce the spread? Or are you saying we should just do whatever we want and let everyone take the consequences?

 

[Justin Smith]

@Justin Smith - and your point is? Because the government has made all these statements that’s a good reason not to help reduce the spread? Or are you saying we should just do whatever we want and let everyone take the consequences?

I am reminding everyone how they constantly exaggerate and, TBH, come close to lying.
I do not understand why people listen to a word they say any more.

 

[fisicx]

That doesn’t answer my question. If there are measures you could take to keep those around you safer would you not bother just because the government has moved the goalposts in a changing set of parameters?

Or do you really believe it’s every man for themselves?

 

[DontAsk]

Some people believe the vaccine contains 5G transmitting nano bots that track our activity and allow the Government to control our minds, that's why.
These are the same people who believe the lock downs and covid restrictions are all part of some worldwide conspiracy to control the human race. They think if they repeat it enough on internet enough people will believe them ??.

Will these people also shun the drugs they will be offered when they are hospitalised with covid?

 

[DontAsk]

I do not understand why people here are so dissmissive of South African doctors and scientists.

Are we? It's the data, not the doctors that we need to question. The point is that their data applies to the demographic of South Africa and may not apply wholesale to us. As time goes on the picture becomes clearer.

 

[simon field]

We keep being fed numbers which are meaningless.
Does nobody else get that?

It’s like saying ‘100,000 children die every year from hunger’

Do you suddenly start eating less?

 

[fisicx]

It’s like saying ‘100,000 children die every year from hunger’

Do you suddenly start eating less?

No, but you do start donation to food banks, support charities and help out where you can.

It’s about the things you do to help others that matters.

When omicron reached the uk nobody knew what would happen. Predictions were made on existing data. As the quality of the data improved models were adjusted and policies were updated. But it’s not about the numbers. It’s about looking after each other.

 

[Ian J]

Some people believe the vaccine contains 5G transmitting nano bots that track our activity and allow the Government to control our minds, that's why.

But everyone knows that wearing tinfoil on your head stops the harmful transmitters from reaching the space where a brain should be

 

[MarkOnline]

We keep being fed numbers which are meaningless.
Does nobody else get that?

Not all numbers are meaningless, not all press reports are just spin. The tough bit, and the bit I think you are having trouble with, is distinguishing between what is and isn't credible

 

[simon field]

No. The current obsession is with daily positive lft tests. 100,000 plus or whatever it is at the moment.

How many of these are the same people, doing tests day in day out? How many are false positives?

 

[fisicx]

No. The current obsession is with daily positive lft tests. 100,000 plus or whatever it is at the moment.

How many of these are the same people, doing tests day in day out? How many are false positives?

Who’s obsessing about this? I’m not. I’m having a beer and watch Airwolf (it’s as bad now as it was in the ‘80s)

 

[MikeJ]

No. The current obsession is with daily positive lft tests. 100,000 plus or whatever it is at the moment.

How many of these are the same people, doing tests day in day out? How many are false positives?

There are very few false positives with a lateral flow test.

 

[Nico Albrecht]

There are very few false positives with a lateral flow test.

It comes as accurate as a coin flip. So as useless as it can be. If you want to chase ghosts that's the way forward.

I use one source but there are plenty other credible ones too https://www.bmj.com/content/373/bmj.n1411/rr

 

[MikeJ]

That's a calculator. You can put whatever numbers you want into that to get the result you want.

"If you get a positive result from a lateral flow test, it is extremely likely you are currently infected with COVID-19 and risk infecting others. "

How reliable are lateral flow COVID-19 tests?

It is estimated that around one-third of people with COVID-19 do not have symptoms and could be spreading the virus unknowingly. To help tackle this, the government has rolled out rapid lateral flow antigen tests that can detect cases in under 30 minutes, meaning those who have a positive test...

pharmaceutical-journal.com

They're in the 40-60% range for detecting a positive case (which isn't great, but better than nothing), but a positive test is almost certainly positive.

 

[Gyumri]

But everyone knows that wearing tinfoil on your head stops the harmful transmitters from reaching the space where a brain should be

Wasn't Elvis Presley also seen waiting at a bus stop on the Moon?

 

[alan1302]

That's a calculator. You can put whatever numbers you want into that to get the result you want.

I don't think they realised that....whoops! LOL

 

[Scubadog]

It comes as accurate as a coin flip. So as useless as it can be. If you want to chase ghosts that's the way forward.

I use one source but there are plenty other credible ones too https://www.bmj.com/content/373/bmj.n1411/rr

Perhaps it's worth reading that before you post?


It states specifically that th tested are very much more accurate tha you suggests it argues...here

Here’s why: If we test 1,000 people randomly in a population where 1% have the illness at issue, and our test is 99% specific to that illness, we will have one true positive and one false positive for each 100 tests. So testing 1,000 people results in 10 true positives and 10 false positives.



This is the problem, people like yourself can misquote an opinion based letter (actually check the source you quote) and argue that because it's on the bmi website and because you have misquoted something, then it's fact......which it isn't.....and you are wrong.

 

[simon field]

Perhaps it's worth reading that before you post?


It states specifically that th tested are very much more accurate tha you suggests it argues...here

Here’s why: If we test 1,000 people randomly in a population where 1% have the illness at issue, and our test is 99% specific to that illness, we will have one true positive and one false positive for each 100 tests. So testing 1,000 people results in 10 true positives and 10 false positives.



This is the problem, people like yourself can misquote an opinion based letter (actually check the source you quote) and argue that because it's on the bmi website and because you have misquoted something, then it's fact......which it isn't.....and you are wrong.

There are very few false positives with a lateral flow test.

Ok, take that on board. How many are the same people testing every day?

And how many are children under 12 (the dreaded‘unvaccinated’)

And lastly, how many times do we have to keep being injected before those who aren’t injected feel safe?

 

[Scubadog]

Ok, take that on board. How many are the same people testing every day?

The data doesn't say. The set is incomplete. It doesn't give sample pools size, confidence intervals or null hypothesis....whish is all critical for even basic statistical analysis. ....which presumably you know about.....right?

 

[MikeJ]

Ok, take that on board. How many are the same people testing every day?

And how many are children under 12 (the dreaded‘unvaccinated’)

And lastly, how many times do we have to keep being injected before those who aren’t injected feel safe?

None. The numbers are people testing positive, not positive tests.

No idea how many are under 12, but I don't see what that's got to do with anything? Similarly, even if everyone got vaccinated, the vaccines aren't 100% effective so we'd not be out of the woods.

As I said up there ^, I'm absolutely fine with people being excluded from things if the choose not to get the vaccine. The Premier League has been doing it all season.

 

[Paul Norman]

No. The current obsession is with daily positive lft tests. 100,000 plus or whatever it is at the moment.

How many of these are the same people, doing tests day in day out? How many are false positives?

Well, it certainly is not zero, of course.

But as with much, we don't have all the stats. Perhaps wisely, as some people are not brilliant with stats. Which is fine, so long as you are not a journalist trying to whip up a reaction.

 

[Ian J]

I'm absolutely fine with people being excluded from things if the choose not to get the vaccine. The Premier League has been doing it all season.

Unfortunately only to the spectators whereas they should also be excluding players from training and playing if they haven't been vaccinated

 

[Justin Smith]

South Africa also seems to be of the view that Omicron is the Covid the end game, the sooner we join them in their revelatory moment the better.

South Africa to Stop Contact Tracing as 80% Have Some Immunity
24 December 2021
Government no longer sees containment measures as appropriate
Move indicates shift in pandemic strategy to protect economy

Link for above post.

South Africa to Stop Contact Tracing as 80% Have Some Immunity

www.bloomberg.com

Just like SA it is time to scrap testing, isolation (certainly for asymptomatic cases), masks, the lot. It is ludicrous that people are not going to work when they either have symptoms of a cold or are asymptomatic for a disease which (for Omicron but also considering the very high level of vaccination and natural immunity rom infection in this country) is probably no more dangerous than a bad wave of flu.

 

[Ozzy]

It is ludicrous that people are not going to work when they either have symptoms of a cold

You cannot mean this comment surely?
I tell all my staff to not go to work, long before Covid, whether they have a cold or flu, anything they can pass on. I don’t want one member of “I must show up” member of staff making other staff ill. That’s just common sense, and that has been my policy for many many years. Long before Covid.

 

[fisicx]

….is probably no more dangerous than a bad wave of flu.

Which kills a lot of people despite jabs every year.

Once again you cherry pick news that fits your distorted world view.

 

[MikeJ]

South Africa also seems to be of the view that Omicron is the Covid the end game, the sooner we join them in their revelatory moment the better.

South Africa to Stop Contact Tracing as 80% Have Some Immunity
24 December 2021
Government no longer sees containment measures as appropriate
Move indicates shift in pandemic strategy to protect economy

Link for above post.

South Africa to Stop Contact Tracing as 80% Have Some Immunity

www.bloomberg.com

Just like SA it is time to scrap testing, isolation (certainly for asymptomatic cases), masks, the lot. It is ludicrous that people are not going to work when they either have symptoms of a cold or are asymptomatic for a disease which (for Omicron but also considering the very high level of vaccination and natural immunity rom infection in this country) is probably no more dangerous than a bad wave of flu.

I know there's lots of big words in that article, but you really should try to read it. What they've actually done is removed isolation for people that have been in contact with covid, not for people that have it. Which is what England is also doing (though we've added testing, which seems very sensible to me).

And I don't know if you've ever been to South Africa, but I really don't think we should be following their public health strategy. I know a couple of paramedics that work there, and they strongly advised me not to get sick while I was in RSA.

 

[Newchodge]

Either he is mad, or his risk perception is massively inaccurate. Interestingly, if a car changed lanes and he went into them I'll bet he'd blame them, when, in actual fact, it would be entirely his own fault.

Have you read the highway code? Changing lanes into the path of another behicle would put the car dirver, rightly, at fault