SEO should be guaranteed

This guy shares my thoughts on SEO,if you are not on page 1 you have probably wasted your money.

Earl


http://internetmarketingguruservice.com/seo-money-back-guarantee-arguments/

 

[EnrageEnterprise]

Companies shouldn't make the whole first page on google guarantee, BUT it all depends on how much you've paid in the first place. I personally have spent around £120 in total on SEO and rank 2nd page for both my key terms (around 15,000 local monthly searches each), however I did all the onsite SEO myself. Am i annoyed I'm not on the first page? Not particularly, as it wont take too much more effort or money to get there...if i'd paid thousands or even several hundred, would i be annoyed? Yes.

 

[aidan1980]

to me a good seo'er should be able to look at a target and give an honest opinion whether they'd crack the top ten with the budget and resources available. If they were up against it i'd want them to be able to say, thats not possible but these 2 or 3 long tailed phrases should be easier to crack and get the same RIO.

(usual sunday drunken rambles from me tho Earl ;-) )

 

[Nick Dougan]

I agree with your, sirearl, that if you're not on page 1 you've probably wasted your money - so far. But page two might be a good basis for a further push that might get you there.

SEO is like any other form of marketing: your success depends at least in part on what other people are up to. There are no absoluite guarantees about what will work at a particular time. SEO specialists may offer you a money back guarantee, but unless they are committing commercial suicide they probably have to be charging more in the first place.

You pay your money and take your choice.

N

 

[JohnnyCash]

to me a good seo'er should be able to look at a target and give an honest opinion whether they'd crack the top ten with the budget and resources available.

They can certainly take a best guess at it, but you are then pinning your hopes on no major algorithmic changes. Panda was particularly catastrophic for a lot of people - many very profitable tactics that worked brilliantly even up to early this year were made no longer viable overnight, with no advance notice it was coming.

Its hard to make guarantees when Google can shuffle the deck at any time it pleases

 

[directmarketingadvice]

I agree with Earl.

When someone hires and SEO, there's a risk of failure and one of the two parties has to assume that risk. Why not the SEO?

And, yes, the SEO who offers a guarantee would charge more. But, why not? He's making a better offer.

Steve

 

They can certainly take a best guess at it, but you are then pinning your hopes on no major algorithmic changes. Panda was particularly catastrophic for a lot of people -

We don't do guessing ,we do research.

I supect Panda may have been particularly catastrophic for sites that had crap SEO.

Never had a site suffer from any google changes in 12 years.:|

Not saying it may never happen,but as google et al make a point of informing people what they want to see in a site its your choice whether you follow there guidlines.

Earl

 

[crossdaz]

Never had a site suffer from any google changes in 12 years.:|

Now that's a statement I do believe.

 

[JohnnyCash]

We don't do guessing ,we do research.

Its absolute nonsense to suggest at least an element of guesswork isn't involved... we have no idea whats going to happen with Google tomorrow, or the week or month after.

I supect Panda may have been particularly catastrophic for sites that had crap SEO.

You can measure how good your seo is by weighing up the risk/reward from it. Overnight Panda turned some things that were good seo, into bad seo. Building garbage sites on the ehow model was probably good seo for a while... now its not. So unless you knew in advance Panda was coming, again its guess work.

Never had a site suffer from any google changes in 12 years.:|

Lol, yeah right. Is anyone else here going to take the silly opinion that they've never once seen a dip in rankings from a Google algorithm change in even a year or two, never mind 12

Not saying it may never happen,but as google et al make a point of informing people what they want to see in a site its your choice whether you follow there guidlines.

You can either follow the guidelines, or you can have a ranking site, you can't have both.

 

[mobyme]

We don't do guessing ,we do research.

I supect Panda may have been particularly catastrophic for sites that had crap SEO.

Never had a site suffer from any google changes in 12 years.:|

Not saying it may never happen,but as google et al make a point of informing people what they want to see in a site its your choice whether you follow there guidlines.

Earl

Got to agree with Earl. We haven't had anything other than a temporary dip for a couple of days as a result of any google changes.
One look at those would be clients sites who have been affected show glaringly obvious signs of their previous SEO's gaming the system.
We always guarantee our results however we never give a guaranteed time frame and choose our clients with care.

 

[MASSEY]

I think you would have to be pretty crap as an seo to not be able to guarantee a position on a search engine considering how young the internet still is, not every one is going for payday loans are they. The majority of markets are easy, you just need a bit of cash to spend on some links job done. It's the white hatters that say you can't do it because all they do is sit around hoping people link to them, they must drain their clients internet advertising budgets.

 

[MASSEY]

Earl i have looked at a few of your sites, you hide links to other sites in the navigation menus and keyword stuff. You are a rule breaker

 

Earl i have looked at a few of your sites, you hide links to other sites in the navigation menus and keyword stuff. You are a rule breaker

Links to other sites that are also owned and are relevant are perfectly acceptable to search engines.

You would not know keyword stuffing if it bit you on the bum.

Earl

 

[Annoying Donkey]

Lol, yeah right. Is anyone else here going to take the silly opinion that they've never once seen a dip in rankings from a Google algorithm change in even a year or two, never mind 12

I have 69 money sites, none of which suffered in the recent update, neither did any of my client sites...

I still don't offer a guarantee...

 

[directmarketingadvice]

I supect Panda may have been particularly catastrophic for sites that had crap SEO.

And great for sites with unique content. I had a site come from nowhere to #2 in a travel market!

Steve

 

[JohnnyCash]

I have 69 money sites, none of which suffered in the recent update, neither did any of my client sites...

I still don't offer a guarantee...

Well its easy to survive one single update without sites dipping, but its completely impossible to not see any drops at all over hundreds of algorithm changes across multiple years...

 

[Annoying Donkey]

Well its easy to survive one single update without sites dipping, but its completely impossible to not see any drops at all over hundreds of algorithm changes across multiple years...

That's absurd. Why would G penalise a site that ticks all it's boxes? Give G what it wants and G works with you...

 

[directmarketingadvice]

Well its easy to survive one single update without sites dipping, but its completely impossible to not see any drops at all over hundreds of algorithm changes across multiple years...

Well, don't offer a lifetime guarantee.

Not being able to know what may happen a few years down the road is a poor excuse for not guaranteeing something in the near future - e.g. achieving rankings and holding them for at least 3 months.

Steve

 

[JohnnyCash]

That's absurd. Why would G penalise a site that ticks all it's boxes? Give G what it wants and G works with you...

Haha. What G wants today, it no longer wants tomorrow. At one point Matt Cutts is telling people to just let duplicate content get indexed, and let them sort it out. Now it looks like if you listened to him you had more chance of getting hit by Panda.

I think the only absurd thing is seo's claiming to never have been slightly affected in a negative way due to an algorithm change, when we get dozens of noticable algorithm changes a year.

Anyone who says they haven't been negatively affected by them is either lying, or just getting regularly hit by them and doesn't even understand whats going on. It would be completely impossible to come out positively on every single slight change!

 

[fisicx]

Had a number of sites ranking high on page one for years across a whole range of keywords and phrases. None of the changes Google has ever made have negatively affected their position. Ergo, follow the guidelines and you won't have a problem.

The changes Google has made will 99% of the time only affect those who game the system. Like the duplicate content thing. If you submit the same or similar articles all over the place in an attempt to improve ranking (by link building) then you weren't following the guidelines and Panda may well have caught you out.

 

[marketingquotes]

Really interesting thread, but page 1 can only have so many companies on it. Indeed if you are not on page 1 for your search terms then you are going to loose.

 

[RadiusBPO]

Had a number of sites ranking high on page one for years across a whole range of keywords and phrases. None of the changes Google has ever made have negatively affected their position. Ergo, follow the guidelines and you won't have a problem.

The changes Google has made will 99% of the time only affect those who game the system. Like the duplicate content thing. If you submit the same or similar articles all over the place in an attempt to improve ranking (by link building) then you weren't following the guidelines and Panda may well have caught you out.

You HAD?? Does that mean it was eventually effected?

 

[Annoying Donkey]

Not being able to know what may happen a few years down the road is a poor excuse for not guaranteeing something in the near future - e.g. achieving rankings and holding them for at least 3 months.

IMHO Demand exceeds supply, especially if you're any good. So why offer a guarantee if it's not needed to market your services.

If the objectives are clearly defined, a client can get their money back on non perfomance anyway.

 

[fisicx]

You HAD?? Does that mean it was eventually effected?

HAVE!!!!

The sites all worked their way up the rankings and have been at the top ever since. OK so they aren't in hugely competitive areas but neither are 99% of the sites in the google index. Find a niche, follow the guidelines and there will be no reason for Google to ever knock you down. Of course a competitor may come along but longevity and stability are major ranking signals so a long established site rarely has problems.

 

[SEO Lady]

Anyone who says they haven't been negatively affected by them is either lying, or just getting regularly hit by them and doesn't even understand whats going on. It would be completely impossible to come out positively on every single slight change!

After the debacle of your comtributions to a thread about charity SEO a little while back I have now decided to completely disregard everything you say and not respond.

However, I had to respond to your statement as I have also never experienced a negative effect for any of my client's sites, and happy to state they have always remained stable in SERPs no matter what changes Google have made over the years.

and doesn't even understand whats going on

I think it's you who does not know what's going on

 

[JohnnyCash]

After the debacle of your comtributions to a thread about charity SEO a little while back I have now decided to completely disregard everything you say and not respond.

However, I had to respond to your statement as I have also never experienced a negative effect for any of my client's sites, and happy to state they have always remained stable in SERPs no matter what changes Google have made over the years.



I think it's you who does not know what's going on

Well I guess everyone whoring out seo services from their sig at every opportunity can't even admit being slightly wrong once then...

It would be absolutely impossible for every single algorithm update to only affect all of your sites (or clients sites) in a positive way only.

Sorry but anyone suggesting that is talking absolute nonsense. You are talking dozens of noticable algorithm changes a year, and every one of your sites comes through every single update in a positive fashion? Do you realise how stupid that sounds?

Nobody can come through all of them in that manner... the best you can hope for is the coming out on top in general, you can't come out on top of every single change.

 

[RadiusBPO]

Well I guess everyone whoring out seo services from their sig at every opportunity can't even admit being slightly wrong once then...

It would be absolutely impossible for every single algorithm update to only affect all of your sites (or clients sites) in a positive way only.

Sorry but anyone suggesting that is talking absolute nonsense. You are talking dozens of noticable algorithm changes a year, and every one of your sites comes through every single update in a positive fashion? Do you realise how stupid that sounds?

Nobody can come through all of them in that manner... the best you can hope for is the coming out on top in general, you can't come out on top of every single change.

I'll admit it. Sometimes things don't go to plan. Sometimes a clients entire site will just drop for a few worrying days or weeks. A few months ago a clients network of sites lost all rankings for 2 weeks because of a weird crawl error... that was scary. Another client lost rankings last oct/nov when one of Googles data centers decided to delete some of its index meaning a few sites lost their link profiles for a week or 2.

Sometimes eg Panda gives a massive boost to a site, sometimes its a random 6 hour blip.

 

[fisicx]

Nobody is suggesting a positive outcome every time. If you read the posts everyone is saying there isn't a NEGATIVE effect of the algo changes on their ranking.

Follow the guidelines and Google won't smack your botty.

 

[DesignerNick]

I find it very hard to believe that some of the sites have never lost ranking for their clients and needed to do some extra work to keep them there.

 

[JohnnyCash]

Nobody is suggesting a positive outcome every time. If you read the posts everyone is saying there isn't a NEGATIVE effect of the algo changes on their ranking.

"as I have also never experienced a negative effect for any of my client's sites, and happy to state they have always remained stable in SERPs no matter what changes Google have made over the years."

I guess losing your ranking for that highly competitive "foam cube" keyword doesn't count as a negative effect then lol.

Follow the guidelines and Google won't smack your botty.

You might not get penalised, but you'll also never rank for anything of value.

 

[SEO Lady]

Nobody is suggesting a positive outcome every time. If you read the posts everyone is saying there isn't a NEGATIVE effect of the algo changes on their ranking.

Exactly what I said - I did not say any Google change had a positive effect, I said that there were no instances of a negative effect.

I think JohnnyCash needs to re-read people's posts before commenting.

Well I guess everyone whoring out seo services from their sig at every opportunity

Whoring?

can't even admit being slightly wrong once then...

Anyone who knows me on in here knows I am the first person to admit any errors - and believe me I have shared them

 

[crossdaz]

Nobody is suggesting a positive outcome every time. If you read the posts everyone is saying there isn't a NEGATIVE effect of the algo changes on their ranking.

Just neutral or positive then?

If this really is the case then it's because nobody is competing with you - like Earl's classic windmill example.

 

[MASSEY]

That's the key here you'll never rank for anything of value, who the hell would not want to rank for anything of value.

It's all well and good the people suggesting they have their little niches that they have ranked top for for ages, and they seem to think they are indestructible, your not. All it takes is someone with a bit of cash who knows how to buy a few quality advertising links and you will be below that person. Your "ethical" seo won't be doing you any favors then. This is why the forums are usually full of people screaming blackhat, it's not black hat they just read into seo better than you do.

 

[fisicx]

Niche does not mean of little value.

Consider the keywords 'birmingham electrician'. The are niche because they are only applicable to a small geographical area. They will have a high conversion score because they are targeted. They are not that difficult to rank for because there aren't millions of people competing for this niche.

Even Earl's windmill example works, it is very niche but it brings in the money. I look for niches where the competition is low: lots of luverly income generating long tail keywords.

 

[zigojacko]

Anyone who says they haven't been negatively affected by them is either lying, or just getting regularly hit by them and doesn't even understand whats going on. It would be completely impossible to come out positively on every single slight change!

Are you serious??

None of our own nor clients websites have been negatively affected due to an 'algorithm' change either.

Why wouldn't it be possible to come out positively on every single slight change? Google only penalises and targets those sites not adhering to their terms, conditions and guidelines. Don't cheat or try to cut corners and your site(s) will only be rewarded not damaged.

 

[SEO Lady]

Don't cheat or try to cut corners and your site(s) will only be rewarded not damaged.

Absolutely. This simply underlines the importance of white hat SEO ethical methods and compliance to Google's T's & C's.

Methinks Mr. Cash has been penalised previously?

 

[lockyer]

Am I quite lucky that my SEO guy charges on results? i.e

25% down
25% page 2
25% page 1
25% top 3

only paid after it has held those positions for 10 days

 

[JohnnyCash]

Are you serious??

None of our own nor clients websites have been negatively affected due to an 'algorithm' change either.

I see you've only been in business as an seo for a year... but even with that there is no chance you could not be affected by an algorithm adversly in that time... unless you have no clients in competitive niches I guess.

Google only penalises and targets those sites not adhering to their terms, conditions and guidelines.

Its painful to read such a naive comment from someone selling seo as a service...

Why wouldn't it be possible to come out positively on every single slight change?

Because there are multiple noticable algorithm changes every single month!!! The best you can hope for is to come out of the month ahead, not out of every single algorithm change ahead.

If you're only playing in hobby niches then sure you can take 1st place in 3 weeks and never lose it... if you are competing for high value phrases slight dips in rankings are inevitable.

Its funny watching seo sellers take the high ground here... nobody is saying you are a bad seo if you have a bad day in the search results. Are you all worried people will be put off hiring you if you admit an algorithm change can dip your rankings for a week :|

But what you are suggesting is similar to Messi saying he's never made a single bad pass across a full season - its complete nonsense, and impossible. He'll still win all the trophies and have the glory at the end of the season but there will be the occasional bad day mixed in along the way

 

[SEO Lady]

I see you've only been in business as an seo for a year... but even with that there is no chance you could not be affected by an algorithm adversly in that time... unless you have no clients in competitive niches I guess.



Its painful to read such a naive comment from someone selling seo as a service...



Because there are multiple noticable algorithm changes every single month!!! The best you can hope for is to come out of the month ahead, not out of every single algorithm change ahead.

If you're only playing in hobby niches then sure you can take 1st place in 3 weeks and never lose it... if you are competing for high value phrases slight dips in rankings are inevitable.

Its funny watching seo sellers take the high ground here... nobody is saying you are a bad seo if you have a bad day in the search results. Are you all worried people will be put off hiring you if you admit an algorithm change can dip your rankings for a week :|

But what you are suggesting is similar to Messi saying he's never made a single bad pass across a full season - its complete nonsense, and impossible. He'll still win all the trophies and have the glory at the end of the season but there will be the occasional bad day mixed in along the way

Please provide examples of your/clients sites that have dropped after Google algo changes?

 

[JohnnyCash]

Am I quite lucky that my SEO guy charges on results? i.e

25% down
25% page 2
25% page 1
25% top 3

only paid after it has held those positions for 10 days

Depends on the seller. If he's not as honest as he could be, he could end up harming your site.

Its also not exactly hard to rank page 2 for even hugely competitive terms... but you'll find yourself paying 50% to rank 18th and getting no traffic.

Also it partly misaligns the seo's best interest with yours. If you're paying him per exact ranking he might take risks when he shouldn't, so that he gets paid. If I was hiring an seo I would far rather hire someone good, and pay him per hour/week/day so that we were both working from the same page...