Changes to UKBF

[Ozzy]

Hi Folks,
I am meeting a developer on Thursday to talk through the redesign of these forums, and being an honest person I don't mind saying the basis is that I want to start earning some money from them whilst maintaining their usefulness

Here are my thoughts and what is being developed, and I'd appreciate all your feedback on this.

These forums are the busiest and top 1 or 2 most successful business forums by way of activity and membership in the UK now. They have been running for 3 years now as a completely free resource, and although I "sell" advertising on these forums I have not been pushing the advertising, there is no structure to it, and its take up is ... well ... slow

I am planning on introducing the following, and my reasons for each item is detailed next to it.

Reduce number of free forums
I plan to reduce the number of free forums that people who join and use the forums for free get access to. This will be narrowed down to just 3-4 forums.
This is to focus the users who use the forums for free into these core area's, boost activity and reduce the amount of space that the moderators need to keep an eye on that isn't earning any money.

Restricted free membership
The forums will still be free to join, but with restricted functionality. These restrictions will be;
No signature
Unable to post URL links
Cannot list in the members business directory
Cannot send PMs (but may be able to reply if technically possible)
The purpose for these restrictions is two fold, firstly to reduce the number of spam signups of people who just sign up and spam the forums with links to their site in sig. and posts but to also add some value to membership.

Indroduce Paid Membership
People can become paid members of the forums which gives them special status. I am thinking of values in the region of a few quid a month or similar. Something small enough to be attractive to small startups, sole traders and those who join for the community but enough to put off someone who just wants to spam.
Paid members will have access to all the tools restricted above, but also get access to a few others unmoderated (within reason) forums.
By discussing with paid members only in these unlocked forums I envisage more focused business discussions and imprved networking. I do not want to become another Ecademy though.
The business directory will be a categories directory for members and non-paid members to search for a particular type of business (plus search engines to crawl).
There will be stricter guidelines for signatures, but members will be able to add signatures to their posts and post URL links in their messages. These again allow clicking through plus search engine crawling.
PM's - say no more

Rate Me
Paid members can rate other members on their credability and contributions. I am also looking at the technicality of members being able to select their area of expertise from a drop down list of options.

Sponsorship/Advertising
Advertising and sponsorship opprtunities will be more structured on the forums, goes without saying really.

Business Resources Area
The forums are to become part of a larger site, offering information and resources on running a business. Much like startups.co.uk in a manner, but not as overwhelming
The content I am planning on being contributed by members who sponsor that channel of information by providing the content. No money will change hands, but it follows the community support theme of the forums. A member provides the information on a subject their specialise in and get the credability and advertising of their services.
ie. Crossguard could provide informative articles on copyright and trademark registration, and that section becomes sponsored by Crossguard with all their contact information banner etc. (and link to their forum profile).

So, what's your thoughts guys? Feedback greatly received.
Ultimately, I want the forums to continue to grow and remain successful and don't want to make any changes that will ruin that, but at the same time earn some money. Not just for me and to cover costs, but I'd also like the moderators to earn something for their time also.

 

[Jayne]

How much will it be for a years membership?

If I cannot afford it, I will cry buckets :lol:

Jayne

 

[Coding Monkey]

Jayne, you're responsible for at least 20% of the bandwidth bills each month. Without you, we wouldn't need to pay

In all seriousness, I have no problem with it, but I think you'd have struggled to persuade me when I first signed-up. Just make it as clear as possible that you don't need to pay to sign-up, but do to get the extra features.

 

[Jayne]

But without me here, there may not be as many members, i'm always here to help people if I can and I try to chat to everyone

I tell everyone in business I know to join too

Jayne

 

[DuaneJackson]

I like the ideas.

I'm not sure about the business resource stuff though. There are so many sites out there doing this already. What I like about UKBF is it's forums. Just forums. Nothing else.

Regarding paid membership. I'd have no problem coughing up a few quid every month, or even paying annually if there is a discount. Although, like Tom, I'm not sure I would have been sold on this when I first came here. Unless the free forums are very good (in which case what extras does the paid-for forums offer?) then it'd be a hard sell and I don't think the community will grow as quickly as it has.

I hope you're going to ask the developers to get rid of the querystrings in the URLS. You have so much great content here - thousands upon thousands of pages. If this was indexable then you'd get so much more traffic from the organic listings.

 

[Jayne]

Oh I forgot to say, yes I like the idea, but i'll want a badge, to say i'm a UKBF member. Like caravan and camping do

Jayne

 

[mattk]

Again, I'm not sure about the subscriptions. If the only free forums are general banter and chit-chat then I think you'll struggle to get new members.

Also, if people pay for membership then they are likely to want something back for their money and the forums might become one giant advert.

I think you might be opening a can of worms with a rate me feature.

 

[MarkPearson]

The plans sound fair and decent.

As long as the membership fees are not too much I don't object to any of this.

I use another forum which is a domian name forum www.dnforum.com and they use a tiered forum system so everyone can read all the forum sections, but only paid members can reply to the 'premium' areas.

The business directory is a good idea.

 

[MarkPearson]

Will everybody, including non member be able to read all the forums?

I think this is important as it will entice new members to upgrade so they can join in.

 

[creacom]

I think the plans sound good so far and I wont have a problem with paying some sort of subscription charge.

UKBF is very popular and I dont think thats just because its free. Of course its a factor but there are other reasons too. The site is moderated very well which makes a change from other forums !

You could maybe offer new members a trial period of 5 days or something like that. That way they can have a taster of whats to come.

I think you touched upon it in your brief but you could do a kind of monthly sponsorhip of some of the different forums or sections. For example on the Marketing forum - JCB Marketing pays a small fee and then they have to find a different marketing topic to discuss every week of that month of something similar.

What about a welcome pack/newsletter for new paying members. The newsletter could contain details of members who are already here, what they offer and if they give any discounts to other members.

Jacqui ''

 

[fastfences]

I also support the changes and believe it will add some 'exclusiveness' to the forum. That may not be an anticipated end result, but ultimately, it may be perceived by prospective members. Will it turn them away, though?

With regard to fee structure, I think £2 per month is reasonable, with a ceiling of £3. I may well be way off target here, but no amount has been floated. I note a suggestion of receiving a newsletter; one is already available, so that would be no extra effort.

I am a member of GardenLaw.co.uk http://www.gardenlaw.co.uk/phpBB2/index.php which has a 'private' section for 'support team' members. This does work quite well for those who want to discuss more 'sensitive' matters in camera.

Also, as a member of www.startups.co.uk I would hope changes to UKBF do not mirror the functionality of startups. It is a very 'non-efficient' and slow board.

In all, I think the changes can only benefit UKBF and members as a whole.

Cheers, Nigel

 

[Jayne]

I've had a think...

I don't think you should charge people to use the forum bit at all. Maybe charge for people to put banners and links in their sigs, Logo's in their avatar and a yearly cost to go in the members directory.

Many businesses cannot afford any sort of cost to use the whole forum in their first year, I don't mind paying for my logo and directory entry etc and that should make you a bit of cash if all the other more well off businesses do the same. It would be like supporting new starters in a way and everyone gets to use the whole forum and know-one feels left out because they are short of cash.

Jayne

 

[DavidHorn]

I don't think that paying a subscription is a problem. However, as others have said, I wouldn't have been convinced at the start. Perhaps you can offer 2 weeks of free use?

I think that the 'rate me' feature leaves itself open to abuse. There are obviously people here (as with every other forum) who provide value, and those that don't. If I was buying a service from any of the members here I would do my research first - check the posts they've made previously, try to find anyone else who has woked with them, etc., so that I would be able to form my own opinion. I think that's a reasonable step to take and more thorough than a 'rate me' feature that could really be abused as well as lead to 'why does everyone hate me?' type posts which are not productive.

Overall though - good changes.

 

[Ozzy]

Hi Folks,
Great feedback thank you.

The Rate Me feature was something that was mentione don here some time ago, but listening to your thoughts now they are valid points and I can see how it can be abused. I wasn't all for it, but a few said they would like to see something that shows which members are more credible in their input than others (trying to word that best I could ).

I was thinking something along the lines of £2.50 per month as a fee, less than a packet of cigs a month

I was not thinking of allowing any unpaid members to read the members area (much like on the webmaster forums I also use), but can see the value in allowing so. Perhaps allowing anyone to see some of the members forums but leave one single forum as private for discussions that members may not want to allow to be freely visible? For example there has been times on here where I have wanted to ask for feedback or thoughts on a particular subject but didn't because it was quite sensitive. I didnt mind some of your guys seeing it and giving your thoughts, but wouldn't want it out in the completely free public domain. Having a private area where only subsbribed members have access to would overcome these sorts of situations. However I do like the idea mentioned of non-paid members being able to view but not contribute to some forums.

To also make it clear, the free area is not meant for just general banter - it is meant for business discussion aswell in much the same way it is at the moment. The difference is that it would only be forums like General, Internet, and a couple more.

 

[DotNetWebs]

I don't mind spending a few pounds a month on this site. I think it will still be very good value for money for the wealth of information I have obtained from it. I probably spend about £20 a month on magazines. Actually probably a lot more if you factor in the money spent in coffee shops reading them. :shock: Put in that context the cost will not be very significant.

I tend to agree about the "Rate Me" feature. That could lead to a few disputes. A lot of boards have a "Rate Thread" feature which could be useful but less controversial

Regards
Dotty

 

[Coding Monkey]

Also, the most known just get rated all the time, regardless of what they do.

 

[Coding Monkey]

Many businesses cannot afford any sort of cost to use the whole forum in their first year, I don't mind paying for my logo and directory entry etc and that should make you a bit of cash if all the other more well off businesses do the same. It would be like supporting new starters in a way and everyone gets to use the whole forum and know-one feels left out because they are short of cash.

I can't see anyone being stigmatised for not paying. I wouldn't think they're cheap, purely that they don't see the value of it and don't want to continue. I must be a member of at least 20 forums and I visit 2 regularly, so I wouldn't pay for the other 18.

Besides, say it was £2.50 a month, which is £30 a year. Can a new business really not afford that? My mobile phone bill is over £60 a month based on the line rental alone. It does the same thing: allows me to communicate with people.

 

[Rob Holmes]

I think to have access to so much help for the price of a sandwich every month is phenomenal!

Every new business has money, they just decide how to spend it.

I think access to UKBF at the price mentioned is an excellent deal and people could possibly save / make this back in under a day with the sort and quality of advice thats around.

Rob

 

[Deleted member 3454]

I would be willing to pay a membership fee, particularly if you could pay for a year at time perhaps for a small discount.

I am a member of another forum where the rate the member feature is available and it is hardly used but I do agree there is potential for abuse.

 

[Jayne]

£2.50 is OK, I thought it would be more than that

Jayne

 

[ewan]

I haven't quite decided on this one yet. Just to clarify though, will there still be adverts on the site?

 

[bitsnstuff]

I think it is a good idea, as the forum has grown and is growing so quickly, it would be great to establish these guidelines.

I am all for the nominal fee as it is a fantastic resource which I actively promote whenever anyone will listen!!

I am not in favour of the rating system, as as pointed out, we all have very different specialist subjects, or not as the case may be, and I would envisage it being used simply as a popularity meter or for abuse.

I think it would be good to give potential paying members a chance to see what they could join in with, if they parted with some cash. On another forum I visit, you can see the title and if you click it a box appears with the first few sentences so you can get the gist of the discussion, but you can't open the thread or join in without being a member. This feature would be very useful here, so that we could quickly identify which threads to open and spend time reading.

I have found that if I post on other forums, the search engines seem to pick up my posts and I quite often find them in listings or being picked up on Google Alert, but I have never found any from this forum, which is the main one I visit, so that query string comment, may be worth thinking about.

Just my thoughts.

Kate :lol:

 

[creative-keyrings]

I feel this is slightly mis judgin the point of the ukbf, it was meant to be a community where everyone could post and help each other out. I know its a succseful one and ozzy wants to make some cash from it but there are other ways.

Such as the ukbf merchandise etc.

Why cant we just have a donation link? i know i would donate here and there and it would be better than a fixed rate.

Regards,

Callum

 

[DuaneJackson]

I run a very popular site (non-business related) that has a prominent donate link - a fair amount was contributed when it first went up, but nothing since. I don't think donations are a good way to get money from a site.

I guess one option is to be more aggresive with the marketting of the advertising positions.

And then there is this keyword advertising stuff where certain keywords in posts automatically become underlined and turn into an advert when you hover.

 

[creative-keyrings]

Either that or a compulsory donation to be made every year such as a tenner or something, i just feel a fixed fee is defeating the point of this wonderful community.

 

[DuaneJackson]

What's the differece between a compulsory donation and a membership fee?

 

[creative-keyrings]

Difference is the user can decide how much they want to donate. I just feel the community wont expand as users will not want to pay for advice. Its nice to help out each other here.

People will be arguingin about fees etc i just think the whole object of this forum will be deleted.

Its meant to be free advice and everyone can chip in and make life easier.

There must be a different way to make money from these forums??

 

[Top Hat]

This is my opinion on it

* All forums available, no private ones
* Non members cannot have sigs or links, this would have the added benefit of less spam.

Only if you find there are not enough sign ups should you have a members only area

Why, I think a members only area will reduce the number/quality of new sign ups, particularly if the quality of the posts in the free area becomes poor (and if the free area is good, why bother signing up?)

 

[SuffolkDesigns]

I think a members area is a good idea.

£2.50 per month is ok, (would rather pay £20 - 25 per year though)

 

[clairemackaness]

ok.....I am more than happy to pay £2.50 or even £3.50 per month to join in this site as on average since joining I have sold at least one painting per moth, so it could be justified. Like Jayne, if it was pricey I would cry as I would have to leave.

I think that forums should be open to all to view but only members to post. I would not rish even £2.50 if i couldn't see what a forum was like before joining. Allowing free membership but not allowing sigs etc, will not stop spammers, unless you prevent URL posting as well.

I like the idea of having one thread that is locked to everyone but members as Ozzy says sometimes you just want to talk to those in the know.

What I wouldn't want to see is any major change to the way the forum works as from a non techy point of view I have got very used to posting and PMing etc and like the simplicity that remains on this site.

 

[Admiral Collections]

In relation to a monthly fee, I think this is a great idea and would seperate the wheat from the chaff.

I think it's pretty cheap to moan about it, when members receive so much enjoyment from this forum, why not pay for it? For 3.50 you can't get a packet of cigarettes.

Nic :wink:

 

[creospace]

Go for it but annual fee please not monthly.

Like the idea of the specialised areas

Gary

 

[cjd]

I think you would be committing commercial suicide if you attempted to charge for membership.

I can tell you immediately what will happen.

1. The few dozen regular members and contributors who have made friends here and become 'addicted' (for want of a better word ) will pay the fees.

2. irregular visitors will not pay and drift to other sites where they can contribute for free.

3. A very tiny % of new visitors will join (a fraction of 1%). This is because the difference between FREE and any charge at all is almost infinite (remember Freeserve). As several people have pointed out, a new visitor is highly unlikely to pay.

4. You will provide an opening for your competitors who will mop up the new customers you frighten off.

5. You will generate hardly any cash and as your click throughs from declining membership reduce, you will loose ad revenue

There are hardly any sites on the internet able to sustain a subscription model for content, let alone a forum - it's a pig of a thing to crack.

You would be better served looking for business sponsors and advertisers and concentrating on getting a huge number of 'qualified' eyeballs in here to attract them.

 

[DuaneJackson]

Interesting comments from CJD there - I find it hard to find a valid argument against them to be honest.

I've changed my mind so many times on this one though. I guess I'm just flakey : )

 

[clairemackaness]

I dont really know what to think, but you've had my two penneth. I guess CJD is right about regulars being addicted and if you look at all those who have posted yes to paying, most of them are regulars and if nobody else joined there is only so much we can all offer each other after time.

I disagree with Crecspaces pay annual statement though as I may want to cancel my subscription. It should be an option i.e. £3.50 per month or £35.00 per year. That way there is a selling point too....Pay annually and get 2 months membership free

 

[multilingual]

Hmmm....tricky one..

I would generally accept that most of the proposed changes are fair and acceptable. I do like the Rate Me section, so long as this can be done in a way that is not open to abuse, which is easier said than done.

The chance to cut down on the Time Out postings and concentrate more on business threads would be a definite plus point, and one that I would gladly pay for. If the forum continues its drift out towards being a chat room, then the business credibility will be lost for good. Fun though many of the postings are, they are not relevant to a business forum in my opinion. (Dont all shoot me down at once!) 8)

The proposed changes bring a concern that we may lose many members who are just ocassional posters, or that those who have not yet joined may be put off. A trial membership may be one possible solution, but I am not convinced that it would be effective.

Or perhaps you could separate the forum in two, and have a members and non-members area. Members could post and read both forums, but non-members would only have access to their own section. (I would not want to click on View postings since last visit, and have to trawl through non-member time out postings though.)

One idea would be to keep the forum exactly how it is, but introduce a UKBF Gold forum for paid members. This is not just a forum, but more of a club for people who want to do business together. Build a weekly or monthly newsletter inviting different Gold members to contribute to it, hold regular networking events for members only, with guest speekers coming from the members list, etc. Try to build up a Gold Database, where members can advertise their services to other members at a special UKBF rate. Gold members could have their own home page (rather than just a brief outline of what they do) etc.

I would pay to be a member of that Club.

Just a thought off the top of my head. Feel free to chop it to bits if you can see the drawbacks.

JB

 

[cjd]

One more thing to contemplate.

There have been site owners who have attempted to charge ('monetise') their community in the past, particularly before the dot com bubble burst.

Quite often the core members, realising that THEY are the content that they are now being asked to pay for, just got up and all moved to another free one.

Just a thought :twisted:

On a more positive note, if there's a way of adding really valuable stuff in here somewhere - and I mean stuff with obvious member benefits not just the ability to post to each other - then you have a chance of being able to sell it. Even so, it's a tough business model.

Try this. How many forums can we name that charge? Then let's look at why they can.

 

[DuaneJackson]

On a more positive note, if there's a way of adding really valuable stuff in here somewhere - and I mean stuff with obvious member benefits not just the ability to post to each other - then you have a chance of being able to sell it. Even so, it's a tough business model.

Any suggestion on what that stuff could be?

Anyone? Lets brainstorm and see what we come up with.

The obvious is a Resource Centre type thing, but personally I think that ths info is freely available elsewhere.

How about REAL discounts on products services from other members that are only available to other paid up members?I know that I personally have used 4 or 5 suppliers from this forum - some with a discount some without. If A further discount of real value was avaiable this could be worth the subs on its own.

 

[Urban Space]

I wouldn't pay. I'd go straight off to another forum where it's free to contribute.

Liam

 

[Coding Monkey]

How about REAL discounts on products services from other members that are only available to other paid up members?I know that I personally have used 4 or 5 suppliers from this forum - some with a discount some without. If A further discount of real value was avaiable this could be worth the subs on its own.

I don't like the concept of undervaluing ourselves to be members.