Whats the most useful software tool you use?

[Clinton]

having used Open office and Libre office i certainly wouldn't keep using MS office if i was only using word, excel and powerpoint.

Most small business don't even use all three of those ...and they still pay MS a monthly ransom! I don't know whether it's because they're just too clueless about alternatives or because they've been conditioned, as @JEREMY HAWKE suggests, by their schools and colleges into believing there's no alternative.

I remember when I was in the IT business, MS used to push Educational OEM licences at silly, silly prices. Various IT magazines pointed out at the time what the game was - MS was looking to groom a whole generation into thinking MS Office was the only / best product.

Schools collaborated with that scam (with some rare exemptions like the enlightened WHSG in Westcliff-On-Sea)

And it looks like MS succeeded.

But we have some smart people here on the forum. I hope they'll re-evaluate whether they need that MS spyware. Even if they can afford £8 per month, they should really be considering whether they want to stay hostage to the MS scammers. At least they should read the article at the link I posted earlier. It's not just about Office, it's about Windows 10 as well, and about how you are being ripped off and taken advantage of.

 

[estwig]

MS Office, Xero, Dropbox, various apps and things for WP, CPanel hosting, accountant, marketing guys, Adwords, IT guys, the list goes on and on.........

And there is a desktop, 4 printers, a scanner, 2 laptops, an ipadpro, two mobiles and many other devices.......

The bigest cuplprit is AutoDesk who bend me over the table for £440.00 a year for AutoCAD, I take it like a trooper.

I'm just a back bedroom warrior, saving money doesn't interest me it invaribly involves a lose of my time. I'm interested in spending my time making money, not trying to save it.

 

[billybob99]

MS Office, Xero, Dropbox, various apps and things for WP, CPanel hosting, accountant, marketing guys, Adwords, IT guys, the list goes on and on.........

And there is a desktop, 4 printers, a scanner, 2 laptops, an ipadpro, two mobiles and many other devices.......

The bigest cuplprit is AutoDesk who bend me over the table for £440.00 a year for AutoCAD, I take it like a trooper.

I'm just a back bedroom warrior, saving money doesn't interest me it invaribly involves a lose of my time. I'm interested in spending my time making money, not trying to save it.

The old school will never clock on to the benefits of a subscription web app that you can access from anywhere or any device, that is always being updated.

G Suite costs less than a fiver a month and has tons of stuff I'll probably never use, but its worth it.

I want to start typing on my laptop and continue typing on my phone when I'm out, share it with a client to get feedback (via a link, not by sending them the actual .doc file, or even worse, converting it to PDF first and then sending it to them ffs).

At the end of the day it boils down to the value you get out of it.

 

[Clinton]

I want to start typing on my laptop and continue typing on my phone when I'm out

If you need that functionality then maybe it makes sense (though even then there are private cloud solutions that are much safer / less exploitative - LibreOffice Online. And there are options like Google's that you're using. Hardly anybody really needs that Microsoft trash).

Despite all the noise software vendors make about accessibility from multiple devices, most people don't start a document on their office PC and then continue it on the mobile.

 

[Lucan Unlordly]

Corel Draw
Corel Font Manager
Vector Magic


Real Pool 3D

 

[ffox]

Despite all the noise software vendors make about accessibility from multiple devices, most people don't start a document on their office PC and then continue it on the mobile.

But they do now @Clinton. Its called progress

 

[Clinton]

I've owned a number of different kinds of websites - hundreds of them - and various online businesses. I've tracked usage on those sites and on numerous other sites to which I have access. The percentage increase in use of mobile has now slowed to almost a halt. We're close to peak mobile access. There's plenty of research supporting this. Example.

Also:

The small increase over the last couple of years comes mainly from developing countries. In advanced economies it flatlined or declined (!) 3 years ago.

I've also monitored various clients' accounts. Barely 5% of registered users return on a different device.

The same with forums where I have admin access.

If cross device access to websites, cloud hosted files and VDRs is generally under 10% I think people are overstating the demand for cross device access. Software vendors (and their cronies) do it for self-serving reasons, but if you have any independent stats to prove your case feel free to share.

 

[ffox]

Software vendors (and their cronies) do it for self-serving reasons, but if you have any independent stats to prove your case feel free to share.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/387447/consumer-electronic-devices-by-internet-access-in-the-uk/

"Devices used to access the internet in the United Kingdom (UK) in from 2020
Published by S. O'Dea, May 25, 2020
Smartphones have pulled away from laptops to become the most important device used to access the internet for close to half of those accessing the internet in the United Kingdom (UK) in 2020. In 2020, significantly more people identified smartphones as their most important device for accessing the internet, compared with those that nominated each of the large display formats combined.

Increasing use of mobile data

As phone displays and mobile data infrastructure improve, mobile phone users are consuming more data than ever before. From 2015 to 2018, the volume of data consumed in the UK increased from 7.29 million gigabytes to 211 million gigabytes. The average consumption per sim card has increased from .87 GB to 1.9 GB over the same period. Despite the increase in consumption, mobile service providers have not seen an increase in revenue from data services, generating 1.73 billion British pounds in 2017, exactly the same amount as they generated from mobile data services in 2010.

Next-gen communications

  4G currently offers the fastest means of downloading data using a mobile device, but 5G looks set to blow 4G out of the water in the coming years. Once 5G capable devices are more widely available and more affordable, it is expected that there will be 155 million 5G subscribers in Western Europe by 2024. "

I don't expect you to believe it, but it is fact.

Even in the corporate sector use of smartphone is increasing. G-Suite and Microsoft 365 deliver the means to access the same data from any device regardless.

Incidentally your example calc on a 30,000 userbase for cost of Office SW is misleading. On that sort of userbase the business would be on a Microsoft enterprise plan which would reduce the per capita cost by a huge percentage. In any case, I believe the subscription charge would be totally tax deductible in any current year.

Free software also carries a cost. The cost of providing a machine for each user, the cost of install, the cost of training and the cost of regular updates.

Most users don't need the full range of Office functions, neither do they need the full range of LibreOffice functions, MS do provide a free to use browser version of Office that is fully compatible with the full version and is more than adequate for most basic users in an organisation. There is also the option of the free Google Office apps.

I have nothing against Open source software as such, nor do I have issues with local area network solutions. However, any organisation needs to assess the business need and evaluate software accordingly before deployment.

 

[fisicx]

Nobody is arguing that mobile usage for browsing is increasing.

All @Clinton suggested was that the numbers who will use a phone for office functions (other than email and document viewing) will be very small.

 

[estwig]

I like having options, I doddle around my house, something pops into my head, I can grab an iPad, a phone, a laptop, whatever. I can look at CAD files, docs, emails, etc, I can message, email or call from anywhere. I don’t work set hours, never have.

I can’t be arsed making the way I want to live, work with some open source free nonsense, to save a few Bob a year.

 

[AllUpHere]

I like having options, I doddle around my house, something pops into my head, I can grab an iPad, a phone, a laptop, whatever. I can look at CAD files, docs, emails, etc, I can message, email or call from anywhere. I don’t work set hours, never have.

I can’t be arsed making the way I want to live, work with some open source free nonsense, to save a few Bob a year.

Exactly. I wrote an entire book using Onenote, Word and OneDrive.
I can be sitting at the desktop, then sitting on the loo with my phone, then fire up the laptop when I can't be bothered to go back out to the office and I'll always be working on the same document version ( which is always the most recent). I think I pay 9.80 per month Inc VAT for office 365. If it saves me more than about 2 or 3 minutes a month I'm winning.

 

[billybob99]

Exactly. I wrote an entire book using Onenote, Word and OneDrive.
I can be sitting at the desktop, then sitting on the loo with my phone, then fire up the laptop when I can't be bothered to go back out to the office and I'll always be working on the same document version ( which is always the most recent). I think I pay 9.80 per month Inc VAT for office 365. If it saves me more than about 2 or 3 minutes a month I'm winning.

You are doing it all wrong.

What you need is an open source, standalone installation on just your laptop, that way none of your files ever touch the cloud and you'll never be spied on.

Having just one laptop with everything installed on it locally will give you peace of mind by separating work/life balance.

If its pouring with rain and you can't be arsed to go to your office laptop, you can't work, if you can't work, you can do what you want, i.e. eating a box of donuts.

 

[ffox]

All @Clinton suggested was that the numbers who will use a phone for office functions (other than email and document viewing) will be very small.

Lol. We move into the realms of anecdotal evidence here.

We had this discussion some time in the past. With regard to mobile use for business documentation, no one is returning any hard a fast stats, so we have to go with the feel.

In 2004 I had charge of the telephone systems of the UK arm of a large global pharma company. Even back then the CEO was in the habit of dictating 4 - 6 high level letters and memos during his 1.5 hour commute. He did this hands free from his car phone to voice mail and his PA typed them up and dispatched them the following day. As I was telco I had to ensure that his time was not wasted due to technical failure. It never was.

In 2008 I had a six month IT contract with a large firm of solicitors. All of the legal staff had digital Dictaphones that were used to record letters and memos for the typing pool the next day.

Currently, there is no need for voice mail or Dictaphones. Word for mobile will take your dictation wherever you are, whatever you are doing.

As for small business - see posts above from @estwig and @AllUpHere and add them to my own practice.

Not proof I know, but a good indication that things have moved on.

 

[fisicx]

That’s just transcription. There are loads of tools that will do this.

But using a mobile phone to format a word document, set up a spreadsheet, create a presentation or even edit an existing document is only ever going to be an edge case.

Even using a tablet to perform anything other than simple functions is a bit clunky.

Not saying O365 isn’t a decent application. It’s just that for many small business there are alternatives.

 

[Clinton]

I don't expect you to believe it, but it is fact.

I do believe it. Users are consuming more data on their mobiles. Of course they are. They are watching stupid videos on Tic Tok. That they are consuming more data on mobile is not a matter of dispute.

But the stats you provide are not for users of office applications. There the share of desktop has largely stayed the same of late. People are not increasing their accessing of office software on their mobiles.

In any case, the issue is switching between devices and accessing office apps from multiple devides. There simply isn't evidence that this is popular and widespread. You rely instead on anecdotal evidence from one or two UKBF users.

 

[ffox]

But using a mobile phone to format a word document, set up a spreadsheet, create a presentation or even edit an existing document is only ever going to be an edge case.

Even using a tablet to perform anything other than simple functions is a bit clunky.

We're talking about the facility to collaborate across users and across DEVICES for a single user. Initial, or final format can be done when convenient. Its the increased productivity that is the winner.

There simply isn't evidence that this is popular and widespread. You rely instead on anecdotal evidence from one or two UKBF users.

I already said that, perhaps you missed it.

We've had this conversation over several years and I have said previously that 'only time will tell'. The signs are there.

 

[Clinton]

The signs are there.

Where?

You can keep spouting bullsh*t as long as you want, but just because you keep repeating it doesn't make it true.

Multi-user access has increased, yes, but not by the amount MS would have us believe.

The cross device functionality that scammy software companies like Microsoft use as a pretext for selling the next big software "upgrade" is a functionality that most people paying the subscription never actually use (according to data and stats - links already provided, more available on request).

The demand for both is simply not what it's made out to be. These are bloatware "features" that exist because they make for good ad copy and justify charging the punters for crap they don't need.

You may not be intentionally conning the public, but if you align with MS, and are pitching their lines, you're a collaborator in their con.

 

[billybob99]

"upgrade" is a functionality that most people paying the subscription never actually use

This, is actually true, for a lot of web apps.

I pay for a web app for my Amazon FBA venture, it has about 7 core features but I only really use 1, maybe 2 absolute max.

Costs a nice £40 a month.

I could get access to the 1 feature I want for £25 a month but its limited to 30 uses a month, I need unlimited.

Everyone wishes their business had a monopoly like Microsoft, and a marketing team like theirs.

 

[Talay]

Indeed, but come on, £8 a month per employee?!?! For me it's the peice of software I use the most and the most useful, in that it allows me to do my job.

Or about £11 a month for up to 5 machines if you are not using MS on a personal level.

 

[Talay]

Hmm. It sounds like you're making stuff up.

I use LibreOffice and regularly send people docs and spreadsheets. Nobody has complained, nobody has had problems opening my files, nobody has had issues with even the formatting of my files.

What file format are these files you complain about? And what problem do you have with them?


Please share this experience. Which "challengers" have you tested and in what way did they not come close?

It sounds clever to say that the mass market product is the best and that it is the gold standard. But it's not clever, it's simply being one of the sheep.

It also says you're willing to waste nearly £100 a year per employee (unless your business really, really needs some Microsoft specific functionality). Or in your words, "£8 per month per employee?!?!?!?!?!????!?!?!?!?!?!?"

Sorry but MS Office is the standard and the rest are, relatively, crap but cheap or free.

And in there is the real issue, people wanting free or cheap and compromising.

Have I had files which do not open ? Yes, like CVs for instance and you know what, they never got looked at.

I don't use Outlook, as I find it a poor interaction with Gmail.

But to diss a product because it might cost £8 a month or £11 a month for 5 machines is pitiful. it is down there with the sweet shop owners who think they have a "business" instead of a job.

 

[Bob Morgan]

"Whats the most useful software tool you use?" - Pencil and Paper, some of us work creatively!

 

[Bob Morgan]

Most small business don't even use all three of those ...and they still pay MS a monthly ransom! I don't know whether it's because they're just too clueless about alternatives or because they've been conditioned, as @JEREMY HAWKE suggests, by their schools and colleges into believing there's no alternative.

I remember when I was in the IT business, MS used to push Educational OEM licences at silly, silly prices. Various IT magazines pointed out at the time what the game was - MS was looking to groom a whole generation into thinking MS Office was the only / best product.

Schools collaborated with that scam (with some rare exemptions like the enlightened WHSG in Westcliff-On-Sea)

And it looks like MS succeeded.

But we have some smart people here on the forum. I hope they'll re-evaluate whether they need that MS spyware. Even if they can afford £8 per month, they should really be considering whether they want to stay hostage to the MS scammers. At least they should read the article at the link I posted earlier. It's not just about Office, it's about Windows 10 as well, and about how you are being ripped off and taken advantage of.

Same here too, with IBM that supplied computers to colleges that were built like a Washing Machines! - And if a student took the ball from a mouse it would cost £90 for a replacement! - Now, a Computer Mouse can be bought in the Pound Shop!

 

[gpietersz]

I from my own experience can only talk about our industry and we use a good freight program that could never be replicated by a one off purchase

On the other hand big companies in similar industries use custom written software and have regarded it has a competitive edge. Not necessarily something you could afford, but they can.

What I do not understand is why your program could not be available as a one off-purchase. DO you mean you have not found it available as a one off purchase, rather than it being intrinsically impossible

 

[gpietersz]

I remember when I was in the IT business, MS used to push Educational OEM licences at silly, silly prices. Various IT magazines pointed out at the time what the game was - MS was looking to groom a whole generation into thinking MS Office was the only / best product.

Or as Bill Gates said with regard to turning a blind eye to pirating in countries like China "its like heroin"

 

[JEREMY HAWKE]

On the other hand big companies in similar industries use custom written software and have regarded it has a competitive edge. Not necessarily something you could afford, but they can.

What I do not understand is why your program could not be available as a one off-purchase. DO you mean you have not found it available as a one off purchase, rather than it being intrinsically impossible

There is no such thing as a one off purchase . Some very big transport companies use it and it is the leader in Europe for freight management

From a business view as opposed to the argument view this systems brings such value for money that I don't even need to question it

 

[gpietersz]

There is no such thing as a one off purchase

So in other words, you are in a business where you need industry vertical software the only options are to use a subscription service or to develop an in-house system so you do not have a real choice.

If you have limited choices, you pick from take what choices you have. Its very different form office software (and most of what most people use) where there are many choices.

 

[ffox]

But to diss a product because it might cost £8 a month or £11 a month for 5 machines is pitiful. it is down there with the sweet shop owners who think they have a "business" instead of a job.

Not only that but the subscription is totally tax deductible, so unless the business is loss making or very close the sub is not very critical.

Sorry but MS Office is the standard and the rest are, relatively, crap but cheap or free.

No matter how much @Clinton and others like him will not accept this, it is true at this time. However, LibreOffice is good software and allows another choice. I can't be against that. I've used open source software on many occasions and would use it again if I needed it.

It's just that while Microsoft and Google both offer free to use Office alternatives I can't see that need arising for Office apps.

 

[gpietersz]

Not only that but the subscription is totally tax deductible, so unless the business is loss making or very close the sub is not very critical.

So is buying software, developing software, costs for self-hosting etc.

It's just that while Microsoft and Google both offer free to use Office alternatives I can't see that need arising for Office apps

Given the availability of free office software, i cannot see the need arising for cloud versions of it.

 

[JEREMY HAWKE]

Let me make the equation simpler
Paying £650 a year is a lot cheaper than paying a transport coordinator to sit in an office
Software is software no matter what its application is

We don't spend that much time thinking about it .It is not important it is priced into the business

 

[ffox]

So is buying software, developing software, costs for self-hosting etc.

So, you would agree that the cost of business IT service subscriptions is not a valid argument against for a viable company?

Given the availability of free office software, i cannot see the need arising for cloud versions of it.

That's because you're stuck with the firm belief that software and data have to be located in a fixed place. And, that people must go to the fixed place to work with their IT or carry hefty equipment with them in order to work remotely. This also incurs the cost of VPN for security.

Cloud enables people to work with their data from wherever they are, with whatever lightweight equipment they have with them, or even on borrowed equipment.

Add to that, if there should be a local outage of any description in a self hosted server location the result is that no-one can work. MS Cloud and Google Cloud enables user to relocate and work on securely. The business does not freeze.

 

[estwig]

Back in 2007 I paid AutoDesk £1200.00 for AutoCAD and ran it on windows 7 for as long as I could, over ten years.

The need to upgrade to windows 10 costs me £440.00 a year for AuotCAD, to say it annoys me is a massive underdstatement, thats a hugh increase in cost over 10 years and for absolutely nothing!

 

[estwig]

So, you would agree that the cost of business IT service subscriptions is not a valid argument against for a viable company?



That's because you're stuck with the firm belief that software and data have to be located in a fixed place. And, that people must go to the fixed place to work with their IT or carry hefty equipment with them in order to work remotely. This also incurs the cost of VPN for security.

Cloud enables people to work with their data from wherever they are, with whatever lightweight equipment they have with them, or even on borrowed equipment.

Add to that, if there should be a local outage of any description in a self hosted server location the result is that no-one can work. MS Cloud and Google Cloud enables user to relocate and work on securely. The business does not freeze.

Not if malware gets at it, get that sh*t in your cloud and you got problems, all of a sudden it's everywhere!

 

[ffox]

Not if malware gets at it, get that sh*t in your cloud and you got problems, all of a sudden it's everywhere!

The same applies if your local hosted network servers are infected.

 

[gpietersz]

So, you would agree that the cost of business IT service subscriptions is not a valid argument against for a viable company?

No.

That's because you're stuck with the firm belief that software and data have to be located in a fixed place. And, that people must go to the fixed place to work with their IT or carry hefty equipment with them in order to work remotely. This also incurs the cost of VPN for security.

Wrong. Nothing like what I said.

 

[gpietersz]

Paying £650 a year is a lot cheaper than paying a transport coordinator to sit in an office

Obviously true, but how is it relevant?

No one was suggesting employing someone to do a job software can do.

 

[ffox]

Wrong. Nothing like what I said.

Okay, So please describe what your alternative solution would be to a Microsoft 365 Business Premium deployment.

 

[gpietersz]

Okay, So please describe what your alternative solution would be to a Microsoft 365 Business Premium deployment.

That would depend on the needs of the business in question.

I do not favour one size fits all solutions.

 

[ffox]

That would depend on the needs of the business in question.

I do not favour one size fits all solutions.

Neither do I. Microsoft 365 Business Premium provides a subscription, per user, base upon which a business can deploy a range of solutions particular to the business need. If development is needed all the tools are in the box, even the most complex solutions are generally code free.

The core elements are Office apps, generous centralised file and data storage, a vast range of collaboration functions with out traditional network infrastructure, all deliverable across a wide range of local hardware.

Take a look on the Microsoft site for more details. Surely it would not be difficult to describe a system with similar deliverable based on your model.

 

[billybob99]

Lets be honest, this whole free open source office software thing gonna work best for the one-man band, sat at home in his office.

Forget collaboration on docs, spreadsheets or slide decks.

For everyone else, that moves about even the slightest, makes no sense.

What's the alternative, whip out a USB stick and plonk all your files on there to take them with you. I used to do that 17+ years ago on a 256mb USB stick.

 

[estwig]

What's the alternative, whip out a USB stick and plonk all your files on there to take them with you. I used to do that 17+ years ago on a 256mb USB stick.

I see your USB stick.

I raise you to a 3.5" 1.44mb floppy drive!