Rising fuel costs

[MBE2017]

This is how bad things are getting......

Major energy supplier gives away free electric blankets as heating bills soar

The cost of living crisis is starting to bite with experts raising major concerns that millions will be pushed to choose between heating and eating this year

www.mirror.co.uk

 

[UKSBD]

This is how bad things are getting......

Major energy supplier gives away free electric blankets as heating bills soar

The cost of living crisis is starting to bite with experts raising major concerns that millions will be pushed to choose between heating and eating this year

www.mirror.co.uk

If you think that is bad you haven't seen some of the tweets and posts I read.

There are people on pre-paid meters having to switch everything off and still having to pay up to £6 a week standing charges for not even using anything.

Disabled people who use more electricity than most to run disabled equipment seeing their bills doubling.

Heating or eating isn't just a throw away phrase being used to make a point, it's actually happening

 

[NickGrogan]

If you think this is bad, wait for October. You're looking at another rise then, probably 50% bigger than this rise, possibly more.

Ofgem and BEIS are looking at nationalising Gazprom, which will cost another £5B at least.

Ofgem was predicting a cost of £2.4B to rescue suppliers in 2021 this was not including Bulb and they projected that to be £94 per household.

UK households could face £2.4bn bill for energy firm collapses

Regulator warns that consumers could end up funding payments to suppliers that took on customers of failed rivals

www.theguardian.com

Bulb has cost ~£4.5B so far and the bills are still coming.

Gazprom will be £5B+

That gives a total of around £12B

That's £470 per household in costs, excluding the extra cost of energy.

The current price cap is £1971, with people projecting £3,000 before Gazprom.

Other suppliers will go bust before October

I suspect the government will try and keep the increases down, but the money has to come from somewhere.

I'd bet on a price cap of around £2750 in October, with financial support for suppliers and £3.250 next April.

In October 2020 it was £1,042

 

[JEREMY HAWKE]

I would want minimum top speed of 60 and minimum range of 100

Have you got those two figures the right way around ?

 

[UKSBD]

Can't remember the last time I went above 60

I go through 3 villages most days and I'm really in the habit now of using my limiter

Set it at 30 as entering villages, flick to 50 when leaving and 60 on the stretches where it is 60

I think most people are the same round here now, rarely get anyone on my back bumpers when keeping to the limits.

 

[Mr D]

...but we are all being forced to think about EVs, because they're targeting diesel and petrol owners like we're purposefully choosing to poison the planet.

Diesel/petrol prices are going up, VED is going up, maintenance costs are going up....so then you start thinking about the benefits of an EV but in reality, they're a stop gap. The government clearly sees no future for them. If it did, it would of already invested in on-street charging through the lamposts that line every street. Really easy to do. You just run another cable through them all and then people can plug in if they don't have a drive - use a chip in the vehicle to log on automatically and bill your account for the electricity used etc. The tech is available, as it's really simple but the government have no interest in doing this, because they plan to ban all vehicles in the future. You will have to use your feet or a bicycle, as there is no eco friendly mode of transport.

Electric vehicles use batteries, metals, plastics - all of these things emit gases during production. The battery components are sourced from mines, we're going back 100 years with this technology! It's not eco friendly, it's just another way for them to extract taxes from people who think they're helping the planet.

The most eco friendly mode of transport, over long distances....horse and cart made from wood? I can't think of any way to transport goods and equipment over distances using humans.

They're now talking about building even more nuclear power stations. I mean, how environmentally disastrous is that exactly? Acres of land contaminated for hundreds of years, spent fuel rods gathering dust in huge warehouses, risk of leaks, contamination of local water supplies, endangering wildlife habitats....that is NOT the way to go but then, is this really about being environmentally friendly? or is this all about money making?

If they were to be serious about eco, they'd start reducing the number of flights leaving UK airports, they'd reduce dependency on overseas trade using massive ships that burn fossil fuels in huge volumes and dump waste in to the sea and they'd look at using ocean/wave technology for plugging gaps in current power production. As an island nation, there's no reason why they cannot create some sort of North Sea field of ocean tech that generates power using water turbines....like a water mill for example.

Give it time.
We are a lot further forward towards 'green' schemes than we were 40 years ago. Be nice if things could be run as you wish - will you be volunteering to be part of the 90% population reduction? And of course just relying on local resources like food and clothing? Bad harvest, you go hungry. Want to be warm? You burn wood or peat. And buy at best from local markets within a day's walk.

Oh and you missed canal boats, the horse & human powered method of transporting goods in bulk by waterway.

 

[WaveJumper]

Can't remember the last time I went above 60

I go through 3 villages most days and I'm really in the habit now of using my limiter

Set it at 30 as entering villages, flick to 50 when leaving and 60 on the stretches where it is 60

I think most people are the same round here now, rarely get anyone on my back bumpers when keeping to the limits.

Have been doing exactly the same makes a big difference have also noticed after the usual morning 'rush hour" the roads are becoming very quite throughout the day must be effecting local shops

 

[STDFR33]

I have a 2.0 Astra Ecoflex. Always have the limiter on as it does make quite a difference. Average 55mpg around town. Went to Salcombe last September ... 640 mile round trip and averaged 86mpg.

 

[Newchodge]

Mine is the same, problem is he lives 10 miles from college and busses cost about £9 for a return ticket which means I have to take him in and pick him up.

Daughter is the same, works about 2 miles away, not safe to walk so have to take her in as well.

Only real driving I do is transporting them about

That is not so much not wanting a car as not wanting the bother of driving one!

 

[STDFR33]

Incidentally, the government encourages people to use public transport. If we want a drink, our local town costs us £2.70 each to get there on the bus, so £5.40. In a taxi it costs £3.50 at most. Why on earth would we entertain getting a bus?

 

[UKSBD]

That is not so much not wanting a car as not wanting the bother of driving one!

It's not the bother, it's the expense.

 

[fisicx]

Whole bunch of students at the local uni don’t drive. They did a survey a while back and they can’t see the point. They can walk/cycle to the campus, shops, pubs and clubs. If they need to travel further they get an Uber.

 

[Mark T Jones]

Whole bunch of students at the local uni don’t drive. They did a survey a while back and they can’t see the point. They can walk/cycle to the campus, shops, pubs and clubs. If they need to travel further they get an Uber.

Way back in my university days, it was the exception rather than the rule for students to have cars (those that did made friends very easilly).

The fact is that in significant conurbations there should be a huge push towards non-ownership , rather than just finding differen ways of polluting. It becomes more problematic in rural areas, having moved from the outskirts of a small(ish) town to the proper countryside.

 

[IanSuth]

I think the A4 bit could kill the idea for me. If she was pottering around Edinburgh then the journey looks better.

Of course, you're comparing new with used, I think the figures would be a lot closer with a new bike.

New bikes seem to be around £3,000 and up?

Having said that, it's almost always better to stick with what you've got, from an environmental and financial point of view.

I went with new vs used as you cant buy a Varadero 125 new and being 6'2" most 125's are too small (plus a high bike is better in London traffic) the nearest current 125 would be a Sinnis Terrain (chinese manufacturer but they have made engines for Suzuki for years) which is £2.9k new, i would NEVER buy a new 125 as you can guarantee you will drop it (even just it blowing over in a strong wind) and the plastics crack or the tank dents and you take a huge hit on value. Same as I wouldn't get a teenager a new car as they will reverse into a bollard

 

[IanSuth]

Whole bunch of students at the local uni don’t drive. They did a survey a while back and they can’t see the point. They can walk/cycle to the campus, shops, pubs and clubs. If they need to travel further they get an Uber.

they also keep using just eat as they cant drive to the takeaway and it costs a fortune.

Most don't own cars and the uni is really strict on parking charging a fortune for the privilege and even then only if you can show need as you dont live with a certain distance (unless you are a sports scholar like my daughter who could actually have a free permit if she wanted/needed)

The freedom of being able to pop home within an hour or go out to ref a rugby game without needing public transport is massive - and being a 125 on LPlates she doesn't have to give people lifts either

 

[IanSuth]

Can't remember the last time I went above 60

I go through 3 villages most days and I'm really in the habit now of using my limiter

Set it at 30 as entering villages, flick to 50 when leaving and 60 on the stretches where it is 60

I think most people are the same round here now, rarely get anyone on my back bumpers when keeping to the limits.

Any journey like that is perfect for a 125 motorcycle - a 4 stroke step thu scooter even. They generally do 100mpg+ which gives c200miles on an average tank they are all good for 60mph some 70 at a stretch.

My daughters actually has a 16.8l tank and she always gets 250 miles plus from a tank and I have taken it down the m40 with her on the back and got an indicated 80mph on the hill down to loudwater westbound (needed to get up the hill the other side) so likely about 73/4mph

 

[IanSuth]

Incidentally, the government encourages people to use public transport. If we want a drink, our local town costs us £2.70 each to get there on the bus, so £5.40. In a taxi it costs £3.50 at most. Why on earth would we entertain getting a bus?

Around here they don't do returns you get a single or a day pass, the day pass is £4.20 but after 6 you can get a group ticket for 4 people which is £6 total. A taxi from town to my house in about £12 a minicab about £10, the buses run all night, the taxis/minicabs get more expensive after midnight. Students get an even better deal

Our buses are lovely (one of the only places with a bus company still partly public owned) they have air con, usb charging, wifi etc

your night buses

www.reading-buses.co.uk

 

[fisicx]

they also keep using just eat as they cant drive to the takeaway and it costs a fortune.

Might be different where you live but the students who live near us don't get deliveries. Always seeing them with bags of shopping.

 

[UKSBD]

Any journey like that is perfect for a 125 motorcycle - a 4 stroke step thu scooter even. They generally do 100mpg+ which gives c200miles on an average tank they are all good for 60mph some 70 at a stretch.

My daughters actually has a 16.8l tank and she always gets 250 miles plus from a tank and I have taken it down the m40 with her on the back and got an indicated 80mph on the hill down to loudwater westbound (needed to get up the hill the other side) so likely about 73/4mph

I've always hated scooters and bikes and would never encourage my children to get them.

I would encourage them to get something similar to the AMI, a bit faster and higher range and seat 2 people though.

Problem is, if they are seen as Robin Reliants and teenagers, early 20's just reject them because of street cred, that's no good either.

 

[NickGrogan]

Ami seats 2 people, the range could be a bit better, but for city driving does it matter?

According to my car, my average driving speed is 12.5 mph.

My typical journey is 8 miles, all on 20 or 30mph speed limit roads.

The only question for me is acceleration. If it gets to 20/30 on par with normal traffic flow then I don't see an issue. Being electric it should be OK.

 

[UKSBD]

Around here they don't do returns you get a single or a day pass, the day pass is £4.20 but after 6 you can get a group ticket for 4 people which is £6 total.

The problem with the passes is they are only good for people who use the bus a lot

Typical example
My lad goes to college - return fair is £8.10 return
Weekly pass is £29.00

Looks great except for the fact he only goes to college 3 days a week = £24.30 so cheaper to just p[ay individual fares rather than have a pass.

 

[IanSuth]

I've always hated scooters and bikes and would never encourage my children to get them.

I would encourage them to get something similar to the AMI, a bit faster and higher range and seat 2 people though.

Problem is, if they are seen as Robin Reliants and teenagers, early 20's just reject them because of street cred, that's no good either.

Bikes were dangerous when we were young and the insurance reflected it - however through the 90's they got a lot safer. All new ones have ABS, car drivers are FAR FAR more observant of bikes and considering she has played rugby since the age of 7 (now at adult county level) i think she is far more likely to get a life changing injury doing that than riding a 125.

And once you go bigger and faster than an Ami you are basically looking at a Zoe or equiv - they are not cheap to run for a 20 year old as they may not have high servicing costs (but neither does any 3 yo car) but the insurance and parking is still an issue plus the initial purchase cost

I just looked on Autotrader and a 2012 Twizzy with 17.6k miles is £6750, the cheapest EV "car" is a VW Up 2014 15k miles for £13.5k or a 2015 with 19k for £15k

Those are in a different ballpark from a 125 bike costing £2.8k NEW

 

[UKSBD]

Ami seats 2 people, the range could be a bit better, but for city driving does it matter?

That's our problem, we are not in a city
10 miles with most of those being 50 or 60 speed limit
Tootle along there at 28mph would probably cause more accidents with people getting frustrated and overtaking

 

[IanSuth]

The problem with the passes is they are only good for people who use the bus a lot

Typical example
My lad goes to college - return fair is £8.10 return
Weekly pass is £29.00

Looks great except for the fact he only goes to college 3 days a week = £24.30 so cheaper to just p[ay individual fares rather than have a pass.

those are single day passes as in they do a single or a day pass (instead of a return)

a 7 day pass bought online is £16 for students it is £12 (that is the within greater Reading pass)

As I said we have a good local bus company - as they (Reading buses) also own Newbury buses a student can travel from Newbury to Reading college or visa versa for a week by bus for £17 and those 2 colleges are about 20 miles apart

 

[UKSBD]

Bikes were dangerous when we were young and the insurance reflected it - however through the 90's they got a lot safer. All new ones have ABS, car drivers are FAR FAR more observant of bikes and considering she has played rugby since the age of 7 (now at adult county level) i think she is far more likely to get a life changing injury doing that than riding a 125.

And once you go bigger and faster than an Ami you are basically looking at a Zoe or equiv - they are not cheap to run for a 20 year old as they may not have high servicing costs (but neither does any 3 yo car) but the insurance and parking is still an issue plus the initial purchase cost

I just looked on Autotrader and a 2012 Twizzy with 17.6k miles is £6750, the cheapest EV "car" is a VW Up 2014 15k miles for £13.5k or a 2015 with 19k for £15k

Those are in a different ballpark from a 125 bike costing £2.8k NEW

Yeah, that's why I said in an earlier post we are still a generation (cars generation) away.

I want something in between an AMI and a ZOE for under £8k and that I (or more importantly, my kids) wouldn't be embarrassed by

I still have memories of my mum taking me to under 18 discos in her robin reliant I would make her drop me off round the corner. If todays youth see small EV's as we saw Reliants it's not good.

 

[UKSBD]

those are single day passes as in they do a single or a day pass (instead of a return)

a 7 day pass bought online is £16 for students it is £12 (that is the within greater Reading pass)

As I said we have a good local bus company - as they (Reading buses) also own Newbury buses a student can travel from Newbury to Reading college or visa versa for a week by bus for £17 and those 2 colleges are about 20 miles apart

They do the same here
Single £5.50
Return £8.10
Day pass £9.60 (anywhere within the area)

Day pass is great for people making multiple journeys, with my lad it is just to and back from college though.

 

[Newchodge]

They do the same here
Single £5.50
Return £8.10
Day pass £9.60 (anywhere within the area)

Day pass is great for people making multiple journeys, with my lad it is just to and back from college though.

Where I live all the buses are Go North East, my nearest town is Newcastle, where the routes are all split between Go North east, Stagecoach and Arriva. None of which will accept the others' passes. So I can get into Newcastle on a £5.40 daily pass but if I want to go anywhere within the city I need additional tickets. Competition is a cost saver for the consumer (not).

 

[UKSBD]

Yeah, that's why I said in an earlier post we are still a generation (cars generation) away.

Wow I might have misjudged the generation thing, looks like 2 or 3 away, rather than 1

I've seen lots of these cheap Chinese things being talked about recently £5k buggy type things which look perfect.

Just had a look on Autocar top 10 best small EVs for 2022 saw the Honda E and thought that may be OK but then saw the price - Over £30k ?

Are they deliberately not making cheap cars so they can still keep selling expensive ones?

 

[UKSBD]

Why can't we get cars similar to this in UK?

Something like that which did 50mph would be perfect

 

[Mark T Jones]

Competition is a cost saver for the consumer (not).

We won't agree on a lot of politial matters, but I do strongly feel that public transport should be a service, not a business.

 

[Newchodge]

We won't agree on a lot of politial matters, but I do strongly feel that public transport should be a service, not a business.

Well at least that's a start. How about water/sewage suppliers?

 

[Mark T Jones]

Well at least that's a start. How about water/sewage suppliers?

I suspect you're right there, too.

But I'm glad telecoms are denationalised.

 

[Newchodge]

I suspect you're right there, too.

But I'm glad telecoms are denationalised.

I think, probably, the starting point should be whether there is genuine competition. If I don't like Tesco's potatoes I can but something different (even if only by price) from Aldi. If I want to get a train from Newcastle to London I must use LNER.

 

[IanSuth]

In Reading we have Reading buses which is 51% owned by the council I believe, we also have first buses which run routes in from various other places and there used to be another carrier called Courtney who are in Maidenhead.

Reading buses were "ok" then about 20 yrs ago a competitor started up called Reading Mainline who were staffed by ex Reading Buses drivers but using old routemasters, they offered different routes and pricing and did well for a little while, however it made Reading buses up their game. They started buying a newer fleet and night buses etc etc. Mainline went under and Reading Buses realised actually a modern fleet paid for itself, they now have all buses under 3 yrs old and sell their older ones to other firms. Each route is a different colour making it easy to spot your bus. It isnt perfect as they rationalised some routes which reduced choice BUT every time a route into the area has come up for retender they win it over the likes of stagecoach and First as they are cheaper AND people refer them and use the buses

 

[IanSuth]

Why can't we get cars similar to this in UK?

Something like that which did 50mph would be perfect

Because i doubt they would meet uk type approval - all those safety cells, crumple zones, air bags and ABS cost £ and all new cars HAVE to have them - remember the Zoe got a 0 star Ncap safety crash test last yr even with those regs

We gold plate stuff - the BMW C1 was a roofed motorcycle, it was designed to have a bucket seat with 5 point harness to hold you within the safety of the bubble in case of a crash. In the rest of the EU that meant you did not have to wear a crash helmet - but in the UK we said you had to, despite you not needing them on a trike or quad AND with BMW saying their research showed a heavy helmet on your head whilst you were strapped into a seat would lead to whiplash injuries in case of a crash plus taller riders wouldn't have enough headroom as it wasn't designed that way.

 

[UKSBD]

The problem with nationalisation is cherry picking by others

State owned have to provide a service, one section of that service is very profitable, someone takes over just the profitable section, makes a lot of money which means the state owned part loses money, then people say Nationalisation is carp because the independent section makes money but the nationalised part doesn't.

 

[IanSuth]

The problem with nationalisation is cherry picking by others

State owned have to provide a service, one section of that service is very profitable, someone takes over just the profitable section, makes a lot of money which means the state owned part loses money, then people say Nationalisation is carp because the independent section makes money but the nationalised part doesn't.

Like the royal mail

Whistl etc can make money collecting and delivering business in towns and cities but it doesnt have to deliver to the miggins farm in northumberland

 

[IanSuth]

Because i doubt they would meet uk type approval - all those safety cells, crumple zones, air bags and ABS cost £ and all new cars HAVE to have them

We gold plate stuff - the BMW C1 was a roofed motorcycle, it was designed to have a bucket seat with 5 point harness to hold you within the safety of the bubble in case of a crash. In the rest of the EU that meant you did not have to wear a crash helmet - but in the UK we said you had to, despite you not needing them on a trike or quad AND with BMW saying their research showed a heavy helmet on your head whilst you were strapped into a seat would lead to whiplash injuries in case of a crash plus taller riders wouldn't have enough headroom as it wasn't designed that way.

Here you go this is what we will get as an EV from China - £25k not £8k

New Ora Funky Cat electric car is out of the bag in Britain from £30k | Auto Express

The high-spec Ora Funky Cat First Edition lands with plenty of kit, but cheaper versions and long-range model also planned

www.autoexpress.co.uk

 

[NickGrogan]

Competition is a cost saver for the consumer (not).

Hence my idea that all public transport should be free at the point of use.

No more worrying about which company, when or anything else.

Jump on, jump off

 

[UKSBD]

That just about sums up the problem.

Where are the equivalents of the cheap small cars in Electric?

lots of cheap new cars in the 12k to 16k range where are the 12k to 16k EV's?