Rising fuel costs

[Paul Norman]

It does appear that the higher prices are here to stay, and potentially even higher.

How will these impact on your business? Will you need to pass on costs to your clients?

Or have you found alternative solutions?

 

[JEREMY HAWKE]

This has to be passed onto the customer and it is none negotiable .

When you do every single costing on electric vans you find that there are very little savings and that would be if there were any electric vans that can run on long distance same day work

 

[Paul Norman]

This has to be passed onto the customer and it is none negotiable .

When you do every single costing on electric vans you find that there are very little savings and that would be if there were any electric vans that can run on long distance same day work

Thank you for responding.

For sure, in your line of business, I struggle to see any option to that approach.

 

[Newchodge]

I think there is a much bigger issue. Every household faces increased prices. A huge number of those households will either struggle or fail to meet those increased prices. They will have to prioritise their spending in order to live.

That means that a huge amount of discretionary spending will stop. That will affect and, possibly destroy a huge number of busnesses both customer facing and B2B.

How do you propose to cope?

 

[WaveJumper]

Interestingly I was looking at this topic with my son at the weekend (he currently has Ford transit Custom) and as above apart from price the biggest hurdle is none offer anything resembling a worthwhile milage range unless you were doing very small local trips they just don't seem viable. Personally I was also doubtful over some of the manufacturers claims.

 

[Paul Norman]

I think there is a much bigger issue. Every household faces increased prices. A huge number of those households will either struggle or fail to meet those increased prices. They will have to prioritise their spending in order to live.

That means that a huge amount of discretionary spending will stop. That will affect and, possibly destroy a huge number of busnesses both customer facing and B2B.

How do you propose to cope?

I agree that there is a knock on effect on the economy based around people just not having as much money to spend.

I read a statistic this morning the 21% of adults are not planning to have heating throughout next winter. Those people are not going to be buying designer trainers quite as much.

And that also will feed through into each of our businesses. My main income comes from software license sales, and from software development. Most of the later is international - which makes the sums more complicated!

But the former might be impacted, despite the fact that fuel costs do not form a very big part of our business expenses.

Staff salaries do, though!

 

[Newchodge]

I read a statistic this morning the 21% of adults are not planning to have heating throughout next winter.

21% of adults - that is terrifying.

 

[WaveJumper]

21% of adults - that is terrifying.

I think the government have totally underestimated the amount of people who are currently struggling and its going to get much worse ......... your right terrifying is a pretty good description

 

[Newchodge]

I think the government have totally underestimated the amount of people who are currently struggling and its going to get much worse ......... your right terrifying is a pretty good description

I am afraid I don't think they have underestimated. I think they don't care because they don't understand real economics.

 

[estwig]

The Gov are blagging it, they know!

No need to panic buy........All of a sudden there wasn't any loo roll, they aren't going to tell us we are in the sh*t!!

 

[JEREMY HAWKE]

I think the government have totally underestimated the amount of people who are currently struggling and its going to get much worse ......... your right terrifying is a pretty good description

Everybody I see is driving a new car with designer gear and the latest IPhone. The eating houses are busy and house prices are rocketing
I'm sorry people but I just don't buy this business about households with no money !

 

[WaveJumper]

Everybody I see is driving a new car with designer gear and the latest IPhone. The eating houses are busy and house prices are rocketing
I'm sorry people but I just don't buy this business about households with no money !

Yes and all on credit and their bubbles are most likely going to burst pretty soon.

 

[Ozzy]

Everybody I see is driving a new car with designer gear and the latest IPhone. The eating houses are busy and house prices are rocketing
I'm sorry people but I just don't buy this business about households with no money !

My worry is that there is a growing divide in wealth. The middle class are going to have to tighten their belts a little, the wealthy are going to get wealthier, and the poorer are going to be in an awful situation. I also see an impending problem on health, which has been ongoing for years. Food that is bad for you is cheap, and if you're at the lower end income with fuel and energy through the roof if eating healthy was ever on the table it won't be any more.

It does concern me, and if that 21% is even remotely accurate that is terrifying. The pubs and restaurants around here are as you say, full and buzzing - my take is people are sitting on cash built up over the past couple of years and are enjoying it, and will worry about the rising costs tomorrow.

...and don't get me started on house prices. That's a complete old jobs for mates rip off, artificially inflating house prices stoking a false economy.

 

[Paul Norman]

My worry is that there is a growing divide in wealth. The middle class are going to have to tighten their belts a little, the wealthy are going to get wealthier, and the poorer are going to be in an awful situation. I also see an impending problem on health, which has been ongoing for years. Food that is bad for you is cheap, and if you're at the lower end income with fuel and energy through the roof if eating healthy was ever on the table it won't be any more.

It does concern me, and if that 21% is even remotely accurate that is terrifying. The pubs and restaurants around here are as you say, full and buzzing - my take is people are sitting on cash built up over the past couple of years and are enjoying it, and will worry about the rising costs tomorrow.

...and don't get me started on house prices. That's a complete old jobs for mates rip off, artificially inflating house prices stoking a false economy.

I agree

And it is never a straight forward picture. Of course, if I look at the road, I see people driving new cars. If I look in the supermarket car park - the same. But 79% of the population is a lot of cars.

But I am aware of people for whom, say, £70 a month extra heating costs is going to push them over the edge. Not all by itself, of course, but combined with a potential double digit rise in food costs.

Of course, if low end wages keep pace with inflation it will be fine. Excuse me whilst I spit my own coffee out with amusement.

And this will impact, potentially, on our businesses. Not every business, and it will impact on different businesses in different ways.

For me, as implied above, the main things to think about will be what I should pay the gang, and whether the software market in my sectors will weaken as a result of any economic changes. Or strengthen, of course.

 

[Paul Norman]

As a complete aside, I have seen only 2 '22' plate cars so far this month. Which is more about supply, I guess, than demand.

 

[UKSBD]

Everybody I see is driving a new car with designer gear and the latest IPhone. The eating houses are busy and house prices are rocketing
I'm sorry people but I just don't buy this business about households with no money !

The ones you don't see can't afford to run cars and eat out

Just because you don't see them doesn't mean there are not there

 

[Ozzy]

And this will impact, potentially, on our businesses. Not every business, and it will impact on different businesses in different ways.

It's a spiral. The cost of household bills go up so the employees need a pay rise. The company needs to put up its prices to pay for the pay rises, the cost of the materials have also gone up and their suppliers are in the same boat. Now the public can't afford the products as the prices have gone up, so they go to their employers for a pay rise.

 

[UKSBD]

It's a spiral. The cost of household bills go up so the employees need a pay rise. The company needs to put up its prices to pay for the pay rises, the cost of the materials have also gone up and their suppliers are in the same boat. Now the public can't afford the products as the prices have gone up, so they go to their employers for a pay rise.

And meanwhile benefits only go up by 3.1%

 

[UKSBD]

The LHA for a 1 bedroom house in our area is about £140 a week which means benefits only contribute about £620 a month for housing

We need good quality social housing at £620 a month, as more people go on to benefits all existing housing below the LHA is virtually non existent.

 

[UKSBD]

Biggest thing they could do to help is include energy costs in the LHA

IE
If rent is £550 and energy is £70 they should still get the £620

 

[thetiger2015]

Yes and all on credit and their bubbles are most likely going to burst pretty soon.

That bubble just keeps getting bigger.

We've put off moving for the last 2 years because I'm not prepared to pay the inflated prices of local houses. Really not worth it.

However, we've now been waiting 2 years...so...maybe I've missed the moment.

The government really don't care. They've shown this. They've been interviewed constantly and for 2 years, they've come up with varying excuses, it's always someone else's fault. COVID...investment in green energy initiatives, Russia/Ukraine is the latest one but that has nowt to do with it, prices have been going up for months.

The government have yet to answer the question of electric vehicle infrastructure. Last year, they said the lights would go out, because there's not enough power available. So...where is the power coming from for all these amazing electric vehicles?

That's before we get in to the eco credentials of Lithium batteries, importing components and vehicle lifespans (they're all dreadful by the way).

The government don't care. They're happy for 21% of the population to go homeless and live in a bin, they really don't give two hoots and nothing is going to change their mindset on this. They're determined to drive families to the wall, to free up property for conversion in to rentals for big landlords. That's the plan. They can't admit it but you can see, by their actions, that the plan is to rip your possessions away using the threat of personal debt and bankruptcy, then they will let you rent your old home back at twice the price it was before. Don't like it? Go live in a bin.....along with the economy they've already obliterated deliberately...

I need a lie down.

 

[Financial-Modeller]

Stuck in traffic yesterday (a Sunday) and noticed that most of the traffic was going to/from out-of-town shops.

Despite recent rising - and widely publicised - fuel costs, it doesn't seem to causing a change of behaviour.

Then I remembered that the world was in a happy equilibrium for several years with oil at USD100 per barrel during the early 2000's. I know that the price of oil and petrol is not a linear relationship but this time, the media are hitting the panic button!

 

[MBE2017]

Heard the term heat the person or feed the family the other day, plenty will have no heating on next year, sleeping bags and wooden blankets will be selling very high come the autumn.

 

[WaveJumper]

I love them wooden blankets they burn real well ?

 

[Ian J]

Despite recent rising - and widely publicised - fuel costs, it doesn't seem to causing a change of behaviour.

Still loads of SUVs dropping off the kids outside the local schools

 

[fisicx]

21% of adults - that is terrifying.

I grew up without heating. Had a coal fire in one room and that’s where we spent most of the day. Hot water bottles in bed and an extra vest. We have just got used to central heating - it’s not necessary.

 

[Scubadog]

That bubble just keeps getting bigger.

We've put off moving for the last 2 years because I'm not prepared to pay the inflated prices of local houses. Really not worth it.

However, we've now been waiting 2 years...so...maybe I've missed the moment.

The government really don't care. They've shown this. They've been interviewed constantly and for 2 years, they've come up with varying excuses, it's always someone else's fault. COVID...investment in green energy initiatives, Russia/Ukraine is the latest one but that has nowt to do with it, prices have been going up for months.

The government have yet to answer the question of electric vehicle infrastructure. Last year, they said the lights would go out, because there's not enough power available. So...where is the power coming from for all these amazing electric vehicles?

That's before we get in to the eco credentials of Lithium batteries, importing components and vehicle lifespans (they're all dreadful by the way).

The government don't care. They're happy for 21% of the population to go homeless and live in a bin, they really don't give two hoots and nothing is going to change their mindset on this. They're determined to drive families to the wall, to free up property for conversion in to rentals for big landlords. That's the plan. They can't admit it but you can see, by their actions, that the plan is to rip your possessions away using the threat of personal debt and bankruptcy, then they will let you rent your old home back at twice the price it was before. Don't like it? Go live in a bin.....along with the economy they've already obliterated deliberately...

I need a lie down.

We already have sufficient power to supply electricity if every vehicle transitioned to electric overnight.

The use of EVs will actually bolster the grid. The transition to EV and more accurately battery storage is part of the planned grand vision.

The REAL problem, is people with not a lot of technical knowledge, specific to energy and power, picking up half truths on the Internet and parroting them around as if they were facts.....

Perhaps take your own lesson in misjudging the housing market over the last 2 years as a sign that maybe, you just are not as correct asylu believe you are.

 

[estwig]

I grew up without heating. Had a coal fire in one room and that’s where we spent most of the day. Hot water bottles in bed and an extra vest. We have just got used to central heating - it’s not necessary.

You lucky b*st*rd.................. you had a vest!!

 

[BustersDogs]

I've always kept my work area small, so my fuel bill hasn't increased as much as it could have. My van isn't very fuel efficient either, about 25mpg.

My issues with changing to electric is I would need to pay out for a driveway, plus drop kerb, plus charger, plus vehicle. And I can't even guarantee I could get on my driveway if I had one (which is why I don't have one), as I live opposite a shop with long opening hours and people park all over the place. Range is luckily not an issue for me, but having somewhere to charge it is.

I don't understand the grants to change to electric. You have to pay out full price for the vehicle, then claim the grant. If I had full price for an electric vehicle, I wouldn't need the grant!

I've reviewed my personal budget, household budget and work budget. My fees to clients are fine and don't need to increase, but I do need to fill in the gaps on my walks. My assistant doesn't drive so I can't even send him out on the small walks while I do something else. He's my son so I don't even feel I can sack him to find a driver.

My business does serve mostly as a luxury, but my clients are affluent and most supported me through the pandemic, so I am hopeful I won't lose any clients. I will probably need to increase my fees in Autumn, but I do a price increase every two years anyway, trying to increase them in lovely weather will put off new clients. People don't mind walking their own dogs in dry, sunny weather.

 

[STDFR33]

We purchased a 4 bed mid terrace last year. When our offer was accepted, our energy bill quote was £110pm (2 people).

The house purchase was delayed until October when the prices started to rocket. The new quote was £195 which based on usage is about right.

From April, our direct debit will increase to ~£300pm.

Despite this, we will still live pretty comfortably (accountant and solicitor) and we are very aware that we are very fortunate compared to a lot of households.

The Tory government bangs on about what it's done to get people in work despite the pandemic but it is completely academic when those in work are living in poverty.

There are no signs of the energy crisis subsiding. On the contrary, it is likely to continue to rise for the foreseeable. Particularly as we probably haven't seen the affects from the war in Ukraine yet.

A £200 loan that Rishi says isn't a loan just won't cut it.

In terms of petrol / diesel prices, it has a knock on effect on everything you buy. I saw a person elsewhere on the forum ask how the 5p reduction in fuel duty helps non-drivers ... well it does, doesn't it? It obviously doesn't go far enough though.

 

[Newchodge]

I grew up without heating. Had a coal fire in one room and that’s where we spent most of the day. Hot water bottles in bed and an extra vest. We have just got used to central heating - it’s not necessary.

A coal fire IS heating. Many houses (including my own) have no form of heating other than the central heating boiler these days.

 

[Ryan Paul]

We purchased a 4 bed mid terrace last year. When our offer was accepted, our energy bill quote was £110pm (2 people).

The house purchase was delayed until October when the prices started to rocket. The new quote was £195 which based on usage is about right.

From April, our direct debit will increase to ~£300pm.

Despite this, we will still live pretty comfortably (accountant and solicitor) and we are very aware that we are very fortunate compared to a lot of households.

The Tory government bangs on about what it's done to get people in work despite the pandemic but it is completely academic when those in work are living in poverty.

There are no signs of the energy crisis subsiding. On the contrary, it is likely to continue to rise for the foreseeable. Particularly as we probably haven't seen the affects from the war in Ukraine yet.

A £200 loan that Rishi says isn't a loan just won't cut it.

In terms of petrol / diesel prices, it has a knock on effect on everything you buy. I saw a person elsewhere on the forum ask how the 5p reduction in fuel duty helps non-drivers ... well it does, doesn't it? It obviously doesn't go far enough though.

I think Rishi and the Tories are playing party politics with this one.
When the elections start in two years I'm sure they'll further reduce tax on fuel, but they have failed already. Homes need that reduction now!
The £200 is pathetic. They should have just given families £200 free credit and promise that homes are not disconnected for the next two years whilst we navigate through this period.

 

[Newchodge]

I think Rishi and the Tories are playing party politics with this one.
When the elections start in two years I'm sure they'll further reduce tax on fuel, but they have failed already. Homes need that reduction now!
The £200 is pathetic. They should have just given families £200 free credit and promise that homes are not disconnected for the next two years whilst we navigate through this period.

Homes are rarely 'disconnected'. Ask the energy suppliers who have been proudly trumpeting this 'fact' for a few years. They fail to mention, of course, that a huge number of people who are financially challenged are forcibly placed on pre-pyment meters (which charge more for the energy than any other form of supply). If the consumer cannot afford to pay, in advance for their energy consumption, the supply ends until pre-payment is made. This is not disconnection, of course, but a choice made by those who cannot pay. If the unfortunate consumer already has energy debt a proportion of that is taken from every payment as well, adding to their difficulty.

Promising that homes are not disconnected is, unfortunately, not enough.

 

[Financial-Modeller]

I recalled a definition of fuel poverty, but realised that I haven't heard it recently. The government seems to have dropped the definition (from 2001) now that most of the population meets it!

"..a fuel poor household is one which needs to spend more than 10% of its income on all fuel use and to heat its home to an adequate standard of warmth." (defra and dti, 2001, p.6)

https://www.sheffield.ac.uk/polopoly_fs/1.272226!/file/Fuel_Poverty-perspectives_from_the_front_line.pdf

 

[Ryan Paul]

Homes are rarely 'disconnected'. Ask the energy suppliers who have been proudly trumpeting this 'fact' for a few years. They fail to mention, of course, that a huge number of people who are financially challenged are forcibly placed on pre-pyment meters (which charge more for the energy than any other form of supply). If the consumer cannot afford to pay, in advance for their energy consumption, the supply ends until pre-payment is made. This is not disconnection, of course, but a choice made by those who cannot pay. If the unfortunate consumer already has energy debt a proportion of that is taken from every payment as well, adding to their difficulty.

Promising that homes are not disconnected is, unfortunately, not enough.

I hear you but if government were to say this publicly then folk would not have to choose between heating their homes, sitting in the dark and feeding their families.

 

[MBE2017]

I’m very suprised that Labour have not tried to use the extra costs on fuel more to their advantage, such as suggesting re nationalising the Gas and Energy networks. I would never expect them to carry through with the idea, but that’s never stopped any opposition before.

 

[MBE2017]

I hear you but if government were to say this publicly then folk would not have to choose between heating their homes, sitting in the dark and feeding their families.

They already are, many have had this same problem for years.

Those that fall behind on their fuel bills too much face their houses being forceably entered and either a smart meter or pre payment meter installed, the costs of which are then added to their accounts.

I live in a terraced road and most of the houses are hardly any lighting on most nights. A lot more are in darkness now than say ten years ago. With working age retirement increases, wages now so low both partners in a household need to work, it makes you wonder where the real improvement in our lifestyles are.

I was telling my daughters the other day about the three day working week, constant electricity cuts, and how I used to run around local shops trying to buy candles for my mother on the way home from school as a kid. Luckily the electric cuts only lasted a few months, or so it seemed.

Of course, we didn’t have mobile phones, designer gear, hundreds of presents and takeaway food back then, but we had IMO a better standard of life. That’s progress for you.

 

[Newchodge]

I hear you but if government were to say this publicly then folk would not have to choose between heating their homes, sitting in the dark and feeding their families.

Sadly, they would, because the energy suppliers do not accept what I describe as disconnection.

 

[Paul Norman]

A coal fire IS heating. Many houses (including my own) have no form of heating other than the central heating boiler these days.

I would love to have a coal fire again. Like many of my *ahem* advanced years, that was the heating we had. And it wasn't too bad.

But I don't have that facility in my house now.

 

[Paul Norman]

I do believe, though, that many people have their houses rather warmer than is necessary.

I like to wake up with only a small amount of background heating on, and I never have any heating on over night. So the only heating is a few hours in the evening, when the thermostat is set to 18 degrees.


My energy costs are low. But actually, because the standing charge has gone up massively, the increase I am going to get is not low. It is going to be, year on year, about 100%.

Now, thankfully, that is not going to be an issue - and a little annoyance on the topic might even warm me up slightly!

But I am very aware that also because I am old I don't have a mortgage to pay. Or rent.