Plumbers day rate

[Newmedia]

Hi,

I am posting this on behalf of a friend who is a heating engineer/plumber.

Business is starting to pick up for him and he's thinking of hiring someone but will only need them from time to time.

He thinks the best way to do it would be by offering to pay a day rate to suitable candidates.

The need to have experience and be gas safe registered.

His question is where would be the best place to find someone and how much should he pay day rate???

Should he be looking for someone already in work but a bit quiet or someone who is unemployed?

He's base in the south east but does not work in London!

Cheers for any help

 

[Business Friend UK]

there is a legitimate way for a sole trader to just invoice your business. This means he pays no employers NI. Best way. Avoid PAYE like the plague. Gotta be £15 an hour minimum surely?

 

[Newmedia]

Yes, the invoice method is what he plans.

He has advertised at £10 per hour with a minimum of 8 hours paid per day.
Ie he would pay a full day rate £80 even if they finish early and have only done 3 or 4 hours.

The only response he got was from Eastern Europeans, who he would have taken on, but none were not Gas Safe registered.

He is going to advertise again but try £12.50 a hour and see how it goes.

The margins he works on I don't think he could manage £15 per hour = £120 for a 8 hour shift.

 

[S-Marketing]

Yes, the invoice method is what he plans.

He has advertised at £10 per hour with a minimum of 8 hours paid per day.
Ie he would pay a full day rate £80 even if they finish early and have only done 3 or 4 hours.

The only response he got was from Eastern Europeans, who he would have taken on, but none were not Gas Safe registered.

He is going to advertise again but try £12.50 a hour and see how it goes.

The margins he works on I don't think he could manage £15 per hour = £120 for a 8 hour shift.

Then he can't afford a self employed gas safe guy working on a day rate.

 

[Craigaroo]

Pay a fee per job, it's the only way

 

[Newmedia]

Then he can't afford a self employed gas safe guy working on a day rate.

Thanks for that insightful observation!!

That's the whole reason to post on these forums - to find a workaround!

And anyway, if a gas safe engineer was unemployed and looking for work would it be so bad to do the odd day for £80???
Especially until a full time post came elsewhere.

 

[S-Marketing]

Thanks for that insightful observation!!

That's the whole reason to post on these forums - to find a workaround!

And anyway, if a gas safe engineer was unemployed and looking for work would it be so bad to do the odd day for £80???
Especially until a full time post came elsewhere.

It's based on knowledge of working as a marketing consultant for trade and service businesses in the south east for the last 4 years.

I gave my opinion, and it was a valid point. You can either take it or leave it.

 

[chalkie99]

Hmmm......

£7 per hour to sit on a checkout at Tesco - no qualifications, guaranteed hours, no paperwork to worry about, etc

or

£10 per hour for a qualified tradesman to be paid on self employed basis and only when required.


No surprise he is getting no takers.

 

[gasinstaller sth mcr]

the problem is i can sit at home and get a boiler breakdown go there fix it and make 75 pounds in an hour and a half .
or work all day for ur mate using my tools registration and fittings solder ect for 10 per hour no ta anything less than 200 per day is just treading water.

 

[Newmedia]

the problem is i can sit at home and get a boiler breakdown go there fix it and make 75 pounds in an hour and a half .
or work all day for ur mate using my tools registration and fittings solder ect for 10 per hour no ta anything less than 200 per day is just treading water.

I wasn't referring to self employed gas engineers with there own van, tools etc.

I was more referring to qualified engineers who are not working at the moment, maybe been layed off recently and finding it difficult to get a job. (according to my mate there is quite a lot)

I don't know how much unemployment benefit is but for example say it is £100 pound per week. If they did a day rate shift @ £80 per day 3 times a week that is £240. Yes, there is tax to pay on that but it would still be better UNTIL something better came along would it not???

 

[Curious]

Thing is if you want someone with experience and gas safe certificate he's going to have to pay much more than that.

In my experience, the experienced guys who are any good, still have plenty of work on at the moment because people want to use them and are willing to be flexible to get them. They also charge proper rates.

You might find some really desperate bloke who'll work at £10-£12 an hour but paying that rate you will probably find that work takes quite a long time and your mate will certainly be second to anything better that comes along..

Just one thing that pops into mind as well - is he charging enough for his work? If he can't afford to cover extra work at a proper rate it might appear that he's not?

 

[CKG]

Your mate will struggle to recruit someone decent directly on those rates.

Though this type of arrangement does happen quite a lot. I've used it a few times.

I've taken on a pensioned off British Gas engineer on an as and when basis - just so he can make a few quid here and there. And over the years I've taken on old oppos that have lost their jobs on an as and when basis - until they find something permanent

All people I know through the trade grapevine though.

 

[gasinstaller sth mcr]

I wasn't referring to self employed gas engineers with there own van, tools etc.

I was more referring to qualified engineers who are not working at the moment, maybe been layed off recently and finding it difficult to get a job. (according to my mate there is quite a lot)

I don't know how much unemployment benefit is but for example say it is £100 pound per week. If they did a day rate shift @ £80 per day 3 times a week that is £240. Yes, there is tax to pay on that but it would still be better UNTIL something better came along would it not???

i have a mate in cheshire whos in this boat ex carrilion . he,s totaly depresed shame as he is a great engineer however the 450 ish price tag of a gas safe card to new startup persons is putting him right off

 

[DDPlumbing]

Gas safe plumbers near me are £220 a day

 

[QuickHomeBuyers]

Silly world, highest company closures and highest jobless since the records begun and OP can't fill one position?

 

[DDPlumbing]

I put an advert out a few months ago for bathroom fitters, didn't go wild with distribution, just locally. Offered £150/day multi skilled (no gas)

Got 1 call!!!! (but he was good, so he is on a job trial )

*face palm*

 

[gasinstaller sth mcr]

had a cold call today from someone offering me the chance to do landlords gas checks for the masive sum of 30 each big wow ..im thinking that hell will get a little chilly before i suck that up

 

[CKG]

Silly world, highest company closures and highest jobless since the records begun and OP can't fill one position?

The gas industry is a highly regulated skilled trade. There are still a lot of well paid employment opportunities out there even in these gloomy times.

If he advertised for a sofa sales man (no skill and no regulation) at his local DFS he'd get 100s of applications no doubt.

had a cold call today from someone offering me the chance to do landlords gas checks for the masive sum of 30 each big wow ..im thinking that hell will get a little chilly before i suck that up

I had a similar call to do 100s of them at that price in Liverpool. I said yes - keep the lads busy for a month

Rocked up to the 1st job - and kept driving...... I think i'd have been stabbed, mugged and shot all in the same day if i'd hung around.

 

[Newmedia]

Your mate will struggle to recruit someone decent directly on those rates.

Though this type of arrangement does happen quite a lot. I've used it a few times.

I've taken on a pensioned off British Gas engineer on an as and when basis - just so he can make a few quid here and there. And over the years I've taken on old oppos that have lost their jobs on an as and when basis - until they find something permanent

All people I know through the trade grapevine though.

That gives me a idea for my mate! Why not target a retired heating engineer.

He might have to put the money up to reregister him with GAS SAFE but I am guessing there would be a lot of retirees that would welcome a couple of days work each week.

 

[maxine]

I agree with what others have said that day rates for Gas Safe are usually up around the £200 per day mark.

Why not phone around and see what they charge as a subbie or even call some temping agencies that supply to construction industry and you will see that this is probably about the right price level.

We work with a couple of regular subbies and pay a day rate but often we will convert jobs into a 'job price' rather than a day rate. This works better for them as they are in and out quickly with more than the going hourly/daily rate and they can go on and do other jobs or call outs and we don't care as the job is done quickly with a happy customer.

Paying someone self employed for plumbing isn't so easy as just paying an invoice though as there is the CIS (Construction Industry Scheme) which is a legal requirement so deductions will need to be paid to HMRC with paperwork to show the calculations. You cannot just pay an invoice and leave it at that I'm afraid.

 

[maxine]

I put an advert out a few months ago for bathroom fitters, didn't go wild with distribution, just locally. Offered £150/day multi skilled (no gas)

Got 1 call!!!! (but he was good, so he is on a job trial )

*face palm*

lol

I put an ad in job centre for pt bathroom fitter and got over 50 applications from some very desperate people. We have some people on PAYE contracts now for flexi hours so give me a shout if you have anything our way (Cambs and Huntingdonshire)

I think that Gas Safe and Bathroom Fitting are two very different types of people though and I know bathroom fitters that will work for £60 a day or even minimum wage

 

[DDPlumbing]

Thats gutting

I got your message, sorry, have been with solicitors etc all day.

Will call after the weekend, I have one piece of paper to get and then its all hands on deck!

p.s. £60 a day..... thats some ropey earnings for what should be a multi skilled fitter!

 

[Construct&Learn]

I pay £150 a day to my Gas Safe subbies (They set the rate and I agreed). I only call on them as and when needed. They do a great job and I pay a minimum of half a day, regardless of job size.
Frankly I think expecting any qualified and experienced tradesman to work for less than £100 a day is beyond disrespectful.

 

[DDPlumbing]

I completely agree.

I want to pay for a good job done, not a job done, distinct difference!

 

[Newmedia]

Update:

My mate as advertised for a GAS SAFE registered contractor again.

He has offered £150 for a 8 hour day and £15 per hour for each additional hour.

He placed the advert on Tuesday evening on a number of online job sites and as of 8pm tonight as still not got one reply.

 

[Construct&Learn]

Try Gumtree, I have found some excellent tradesmen through the site.

 

[Craigaroo]

Paying someone self employed for plumbing isn't so easy as just paying an invoice though as there is the CIS (Construction Industry Scheme) which is a legal requirement so deductions will need to be paid to HMRC with paperwork to show the calculations. You cannot just pay an invoice and leave it at that I'm afraid.

The repair or servicing of gas central heating doesn't fall under the scope of CIS, only new installations

 

[Talay]

It isn't just the wage as a casual job but the impact it has on all benefits, not just Job Seekers Allowance. If they pay rent, then there will be a loss there and council tax. In fact, after a few allowances, I think they lose about 85% of their net income in benefits.

So if they get £300 a week and lose £255 in benefits, they are effectively working 3 days for £45, aren't they ?

 

[MASSEY]

There's a difference between a plumber and a Gas Safe plumber, as people have noted.

We have a plumber work for us on and off, who is gas safe, and he gets about 200 quid for the day.

 

[Homer J Simpson]

What makes me laugh is that I get people telling me their day rate and then when I want a price to rip out a bathroom suite (an EASY day of work), the price is for about 2.5x the day rate!!

 

[Talay]

What makes me laugh is that I get people telling me their day rate and then when I want a price to rip out a bathroom suite (an EASY day of work), the price is for about 2.5x the day rate!!

Ain't that the truth !

Or kitchen fitters. Recent tv advert from one of the main protagonists is offering £1000 off fitting. Well, as even I can knock up a kitchen in a few days, I'd expect professionals to do it quicker than me and if they are offering £1000 off the fitting price, just how much do they expect to fit it ?

 

[Homer J Simpson]

I've seen prices range from around £1,600 to £4,000 to fit kitchens and bathrooms - in standard size rooms. And yes, that's just for the labour!