Odd Working Experience

[Blood Lust]

I recently started a new job and would like some advice on the following:

1. Very few people talk to each other at the business which for me is alien as I'm used to a busy, and banter filled, office. Most employees eat lunch at their desks, go home or sit on their own in the canteen. I'd say only 10% of the staff socialise with each other. At what point is it best for me (I'm a business grad) to start pointing out this problem and how to tackle it. I've been there 2 weeks.

2. There is a culture present inside the work place where most people when communicating with someone are a little aggressive, abrupt and forceful. There is a high level of sickness present at the business I suspect is cause by this and number one. How do you bring up this subject when it isn't just the workers being like that towards each other but lower, middle and upper management too?

3. When someone is being aggressive, abrupt or controlling with me my natural instinct is to either crack them one of end up in a heated argument. If I do neither I experience emotional stress from the communication. How do I damped down that response in myself and how do I deal with the situation more effectively to get people communicating normally to me?

 

[Toby Willows]

You're the new boy and as such fit in or get out. Don't try and change things, there is probably a good reason why they socialise/work as they do, and I presume as you wanted a job there it's a successful company.

To be honest it sounds like you are out of your depth. Give it time and see if you can fit into your new employee role. If not move on. As an employer there is nothing worse than a newbee employee who "knows best".

All businesses work different, your previous employer's way isn't necessarily "right".

 

[fisicx]

At what point is it best for me (I'm a business grad) to start pointing out this problem and how to tackle it.

You don't.

 

[myfairworld]

The obvious way forward for you is that you talk to your co-workers. Not by crowding them or being over persistent but just by making simple and straightforward conversation which does NOT include adverse comment on the business which you've recently decided to join nor adverse comment on them. Make comments on the weather (I know it is corny but communication between Brits is often initiated via general comments on the weather!). Be pleasant, be helpful, if possible find a reason to ask for help whether it is about something at work or something at home (no not your marriage or divorce, just non threatening stuff like getting the remote control on that wretched Smart TV to work properly or whatever). Don't try to force people if they don't seem to want to continue conversations, keep it brief today and be friendly again tomorrow. Accept that some people - if you do it well - will start to enjoy communicating with you in time, others will prefer to keep to themselves and that is something which has to be respected too unless your colleagues were recruited on the basis that they would be sociable with colleagues and customers.

Are you a manager? If so the way forward is to work on improving things in your own team. If your team achieves more through working well together then in time this will be noticed! Not a manager? Well the first thing you have to prove before you start advising others is that you are good at your own job and that you are pleasant and helpful (but not pushy) with colleagues and willing to learn from them.

Are you working in the IT sector? If so the sector does attract a proportion of workers who are not so keen on the interpersonal interaction stuff and the sector is more than happy to employ them because they are good at their role if not so good at being sociable with colleagues.

If you don't like the way those in management positions are interacting with you then I sympathise. I've hated working in environments where managers were aggressive or not aggressive but just socially inept and handling situations badly. As a manager in my own business I've always tried to do it differently but employees respond to that difference in different ways of course! At two weeks in, unless you want to start looking for a new job immediately, what you need to prove is that you can do your own job well and also interact successfully with your colleagues even if this is not in the way which would match your ideal. Get to be valuable to the business and liked by your colleagues before you start thinking about 'informing' the business of where it is going wrong.

 

[Mark T Jones]

There was a saying at bA FIFO (fit in or f@@@ off). Whilst not professional or desirable this still runs through many organisations

Unless you have been brought in on £1000 per day contract to fundamentally change the culture you are best advised to follow the above - at least for the time being . It is almost certainly a top-down culture so you will bite the hand that feeds you whilst causing anxiety amongst your colleagues - many of whom will have fully adapted to the culture

By all means follow myfairworlds advice in a sympathetic and gradual way

 

[ethical PR]

Where you brought in at a senior level to change the culture of the company? If not, can you imagine how it will go down if you come in as a newbie and start telling them how to run their business. Presumably you wanted the role because it is working for a successful company - sounds more like an issue around cultural fit.

What sort of questions did you ask through the interview process to find out about the culture and values of the company? If socialising and a friendly, chatty atmosphere is important to you, you should look for a job in a company with these sort of values.

However do look at yourself too..

"My natural instinct is to either crack them one of end up in a heated argument. If I do neither I experience emotional stress from the communication".

It sounds like you would benefit from some anger management/counselling.

 

[BustersDogs]

People not talking to each other and getting on with their work doesn't sound like a problem to me. If you came into my business and wanted people to start chatting more you'd soon find yourself out on your ear.

 

[GraemeL]

Hmm. Seems like you have difficult conditions wherever you go!

http://www.ukbusinessforums.co.uk/threads/coercive-management.333040/

G

 

[tony84]

The week before payday ask if its customary to go for pay day drinks after work?
Could be a bit awkward if they all say no, but you might get one or 2 happy to come out.

 

[BTON Agency]

To honest its not your problem.

I know that sounds blunt and not what you want to hear but reading between the lines you are in your first big job, and not in management.

Unfortunately you will find a lot of tings in life are not as should be or expected.

If you go in trying to change things and others straight away you will only make things worse for yourself as they will not appreciate it.

Sounds like a pretty poor working environment but management will not thank you for highlighting it.

Best advise i can give is, keep your head down and look to make the best of it and befriend as many as possible.

If others are aggressive, kill them with kindness, works a treat. Failing that get your CV back out there!

 

[Root 66 Woodshop]

Personally, I'd just be myself... enjoy the job and get on with it in my own way... if you have the right kind of demeanor or attitude and come across as being enjoyable to be around they eventually might come out of their shell a bit...

But then again - they may well already be clones and just follow the rituals as they've been programmed to do.




My first two weeks as a store manager was hectic because of the staff, they were all milling about - not enjoying their job when I arrived. I made sure that providing the jobs on a daily basis were done - they could smile, they could engage with customers... the asian lasses were shocked because I was always out on the shop floor helping out or taking over in some cases...

work is to be enjoyed - it should never be somewhere to go to put bread on the table... those days are outdated.

 

[The Byre]

People not talking to each other and getting on with their work doesn't sound like a problem to me. If you came into my business and wanted people to start chatting more you'd soon find yourself out on your ear.

Brilliant reply!

That, BTW, is often how any sensible manager sees things.

 

[tony84]

Why sensible?

I have had ******** bosses and nice bosses and I can pretty much say the nice bosses got a lot more from me than the others. I would work late, work through dinner and generally go the extra mile and also try and help them get new business. Not nice bosses I did what was necessary and nothing more and left as soon as I found something else. They then had to go and spend time/money getting a replacement.

 

[silvermusic]

My advice for what it's worth, find another job. No point doing something or being with people for 40 hours a week if you hate it. Been there, done that.

 

[Lloyd N8N]

It's Friday... you could always suggest a pint after work.

 

[Toby Willows]

Why sensible?

I have had ******** bosses and nice bosses and I can pretty much say the nice bosses got a lot more from me than the others. I would work late, work through dinner and generally go the extra mile and also try and help them get new business. Not nice bosses I did what was necessary and nothing more and left as soon as I found something else. They then had to go and spend time/money getting a replacement.

It's not a matter of whether your boss is "nice" or "horrible", as a boss you have to be fair. I've met employers who are the most obnoxious twoks out there but treated their staff fairly and the staff were happy. Sure the staff usually had unflattering nicknames for them but so what. Likewise I've see bosses who are overly nice and friendly to their staff, more often than not they just got taken advantage off because they weren't respected. These are no better bosses than your " horrible" ones.

You have to remember your boss is just that, your boss and not your friend. Luckily most business owners know this so "nice" and "horrible" bosses are few and far between.

 

[BTON Agency]

It's not a matter of whether your boss is "nice" or "horrible", as a boss you have to be fair.

Very true! - Its easy to be a well liked boss, just say yes to anything and everything! - The hard bit is saying no which is why some think they are horrible.

In my corporate days as an agent many of my peers (managers) were seen as nice bosses, in the main their figures sucked!

A lot of lazy, uneducated weak staff i had thought i was "Horrible" because i actually said no to them, kept the standard of the company upheld. BUT the ones with a real work ethic thought i was amazing as there figures had never been so good and appreciated me helping them.

I must admit it is not nice to be unliked but did not bother me in the main as i had strength of character and knew what i wanted to acheive and with the right people, i got myself and others a lot of promotions (now own my own firm) and a lot of the poor staff many years on have never progressed, jump from company to company or better still left the industry!

 

[fisicx]

When I was in the Army, one bit of advice I get when I was promoted to Sergeant was to stop being mates with everyone. I wasn't my job to be liked, it was my job to make sure the work got done.

I worked as a contractor earlier this year and it was silent for most of the day. Everyone was so busy working they didn't have time to chat. And the techs couldn't stand the support and admin staff so there was never going to be much banter.

 

[AllUpHere]

I don't envy the OP's boss. Some kid with a business degree coming in thinking he knows best. I think most of us have had the misfortune of employing someone like that at one time or another.

 

[tony84]

A boss is not there to be liked, they are there to get there job done as is everyone within the company.

However, a good working environment can help that.

There is no reason to not have a good working team, you get far more from happy employees than you do people who can not bare to be there a minute more than necessary.

 

[AllUpHere]

It depends on the team. Personally I can't think of anything worse than working in an office where everyone wanted to be my friend, and there was always some needy loser arranging for everyone to go for drinks, or even worse, bowling; you know the one I mean (or if not, its probably you).

 

[Blood Lust]

Ok, so I'm now a few weeks in.

What I have found is that the culture at the business is one where the staff are abrupt and coercive towards each other. They seem to think it makes them appear management material if they push each other around. In turn many (but not all) of the managers treat the staff that way too and treat each other that way. And I have seen staff even talk to managers like that too.

I would describe it as a who's the daddy culture. There are high levels of stress and sickness at the business. There is little to no socialising between most employees even down to there being no workplace banter. And I would go as far as to say that most of them avoid social contact.

I suspect, although I cannot confirm it with complete confidence, that very few of the employees actually like each other. Maybe its to do with the way they are towards each other. But strangest of all the business has the lowest turn over of staff I have ever seen.

I dont get that, it goes against everything taught to me about business and HR. High sickness and stress absence but low turn over of staff.....

 

[simon field]

Is there a chance that the people who taught you that, had their own businesses, or just degrees enough to be a teacher?

 

[Blood Lust]

Is there a chance that the people who taught you that, had their own businesses, or just degrees enough to be a teacher?

Its odd to me both because of what my degree taught and my own experience. I, up until this point, have always see high turnovers of staff in businesses with stress or general sickness problems.

When people cannot face work or hate it, for whatever reason, then turnover and absence increase.

The benefits at the business are good (fairly decent wages, health insurance, vouchers, etc) but there aren't amazing. I dont get it. Maybe they are all tied to the business using training schemes where they cannot leave before a certain amount of time or they have to pay for it. I shall have to be observant to figure out what it is.

 

[japancool]

You've been there for three weeks. I don't think you're in a position to make a judgment on the woes of the company, but if it's as bad for you as you seem to think, leave and find a new job.

 

[Scott-Copywriter]

Its odd to me both because of what my degree taught and my own experience. I, up until this point, have always see high turnovers of staff in businesses with stress or general sickness problems.

When people cannot face work or hate it, for whatever reason, then turnover and absence increase.

The benefits at the business are good (fairly decent wages, health insurance, vouchers, etc) but there aren't amazing. I dont get it. Maybe they are all tied to the business using training schemes where they cannot leave before a certain amount of time or they have to pay for it. I shall have to be observant to figure out what it is.

If people disliking their jobs or finding them stressful has such a profound impact on turnover rates, then the UK unemployment rate would be a lot higher than 4.9%.

You have found all sorts of problems in the business and don't seem to like the working environment, yet you're still there. Perhaps these mystical forces of retention are having an effect on you as well. Spooky.

 

[BigTree]

Sounds very much like the insurance company my wife worked at. Horrid draconian business which also had a lot of illness and people off on stress but people just didn't leave.

My wife worked there for over 5 years and I think the sticking factor was low self esteem/confidence. She felt worthless and that she wouldn't be able to find another job elsewhere so why look.

One example is they'd time people going on their comfort breaks, as they call them, and then email around how long people spent. You were only allowed 10mins in total per day from the moment you logged off your pc, to get through security at the other end of the building, go to toilet and back again and log on!

Eventually after a tearful phonecall following the usually shaming I told her to put the phone down, go straight over to her boss and tell her to shove it. Her health issues (like IBS) practically disappeared overnight.

What I'm trying to say is if you really don't like the working conditions get out now before you get used to it.

 

[japancool]

You're really only hearing the OP's side of the story here and frankly, to me, it sounds like an severe overreaction to a relatively normal working environment.

 

[Toby Willows]

Forget what your business degree "taught" you, you're already finding out you can't be taught business.

High staff turnover. That's not always a sign of something being amiss. Many jobs have a high turn over of a small percentage of staff, whilst the majority of employees will have been there for years and be very productive. Cream rising and all that. Jobs from Postmen and Milkmen to field sales and engineers all have a high turnover of a small percentage, but in all cases you'll find a majority who have been working there for decades and enjoy it. The other 20% or so just aren't cut out for the job for many reasons from maybe the unsocial hours to the working environment.

Face it, you're just not cut out for this job.

 

[APW]

This shows everything that is wrong with todays education. Kids are taught to be offended by everything and get emotionally upset if they don't like something no matter how small.

This is just a case of "welcome to the real world" as Rocky says "The world ain't all sunshine and rainbows. It's a very mean and nasty place and I don't care how tough you are it will beat you to your knees and keep you there permanently if you let it. You, me, or nobody is gonna hit as hard as life."

My advice is to toughen up and grow up, once you have done that you will realise its only a job.

 

[The Byre]

When I were a lad, I had to work for threepence a week - and I had to pay two shillings of that back for the privilege of being there. The boss greeted us that the door by punching us all in the face - and we were grateful!

You know, we loved that man, even though he did knock all me teeth out.

And the work, it were hard, it were. Hard, hard, hard? It were so hard, me hands were bleeding stumps by tea time.

But we were happy! The laughs we had! When old Mister Prendergast got caught up in his lathe and was mangled to death, how we laughed! He were laughing too, right up until the end!

But then the War came and I was called up. I joined up, went off to war and got killed. Well, not right away - I had all me hair blown off. Had to get a wooden wig. Ended up combing me hair with a chisel. But then, come Dunkirk, I had everything blown off. By the time D-Day rolled around, I was completely wooden, you know!

But you tell that to young people today and they just laugh at you and run you over in their sports cars.

 

[Chris Ashdown]

When I served my 12 years in the Royal Navy as NCO's we seldom gave orders to people but asked them to do something, on the other hand Officers tended to give orders relying on their rank and not management to achieve the end result

One thing I agree on is that you cannot always be a friend to those you are in charge of, but you can behave towards them with respect

 

[ethical PR]

@APW sadly he's not a kid and this isn't the first time he has reported issues with his working environment, interview processes etc

 

[APW]

@APW sadly he's not a kid and this isn't the first time he has reported issues with his working environment, interview processes etc

Until he acts like a grown up Ill stick with calling him a kid. But its also true about anyone leaving education and entering the real world.

 

[Blood Lust]

When I were a lad, I had to work for threepence a week - and I had to pay two shillings of that back for the privilege of being there. The boss greeted us that the door by punching us all in the face - and we were grateful!

You know, we loved that man, even though he did knock all me teeth out.

And the work, it were hard, it were. Hard, hard, hard? It were so hard, me hands were bleeding stumps by tea time.

But we were happy! The laughs we had! When old Mister Prendergast got caught up in his lathe and was mangled to death, how we laughed! He were laughing too, right up until the end!

But then the War came and I was called up. I joined up, went off to war and got killed. Well, not right away - I had all me hair blown off. Had to get a wooden wig. Ended up combing me hair with a chisel. But then, come Dunkirk, I had everything blown off. By the time D-Day rolled around, I was completely wooden, you know!

But you tell that to young people today and they just laugh at you and run you over in their sports cars.

Made me laugh

 

[Blood Lust]

Why sensible?

I have had ******** bosses and nice bosses and I can pretty much say the nice bosses got a lot more from me than the others. I would work late, work through dinner and generally go the extra mile and also try and help them get new business. Not nice bosses I did what was necessary and nothing more and left as soon as I found something else. They then had to go and spend time/money getting a replacement.

Thats the way it normally works. If a manager makes their staff resent them then they have no respect for that manager, do the bare minimum in their jobs, leave as soon as they've found somewhere better to work and throw a few spanners in the works to get their own back too.

And then when the manager runs out of excuses for why his/her team doesn't perform they get sacked. Or if the business is incompetent they keep them on and it continues to underperform.

 

[Toby Willows]

Thats the way it normally works. If a manager makes their staff resent them then they have no respect for that manager, do the bare minimum in their jobs, leave as soon as they've found somewhere better to work and throw a few spanners in the works to get their own back too.

And then when the manager runs out of excuses for why his/her team doesn't perform they get sacked. Or if the business is incompetent they keep them on and it continues to underperform.

It's all a matter of perspective. What are you basing your "facts" on? Hopefully not your degree.

Yes there are bad managers, but there are very many more bad, whinging, layabout staff who think being asked to actually do the job they are paid to do is in breach of their human rights.

 

[Chris Ashdown]

Thats the way it normally works. If a manager makes their staff resent them then they have no respect for that manager, do the bare minimum in their jobs, leave as soon as they've found somewhere better to work and throw a few spanners in the works to get their own back too.

And then when the manager runs out of excuses for why his/her team doesn't perform they get sacked. Or if the business is incompetent they keep them on and it continues to underperform.

Its easy to be friendly with your staff as a manager, but many employees then take advantage of the situation and use that friendship to walk all over you.Which makes it extremely hard on yourself when you have to fire a friend or give them warning, so in many cases better to stay more remote,

Which is why the forces have different living accommodation for different ranks

Few staff in any company work and play together, they have few things in common at various different age groups, whilst you at Uni have a bunch of students in a much closer age group with probably lots in common

 

[NickGrogan]

There is little to no socialising between most employees even down to there being no workplace banter. And I would go as far as to say that most of them avoid social contact.

Or maybe they just don't like you?

It's a work place, not a social club.

 

[Scott-Copywriter]

At the end of the day, it largely comes down to money. I think that other factors involved in employee turnover are overstated most of the time.

Some will certainly prioritise their wellbeing and workplace happiness more than others, whilst some will leave when they have cracked and can take no more. However, for the most part, that regular salary which pays the bills and feeds the kids is very difficult to walk away from when the alternative path is unknown.

I also feel as though the acceptance of work displeasure is deeply engrained in our culture and in pretty much every culture around the world. Almost every person I know in full time work is overjoyed when the weekend arrives and miserable when Monday approaches. Those who aren't tend to have quite niche jobs where they can fulfil long-held passions.