Employing in Philippines - I'll never hire in UK again.

Discussion in 'General Business Forum' started by JohnnyCash, Feb 3, 2011.

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  1. RadiusBPO

    RadiusBPO UKBF Ace Free Member

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    You do have to be carefull with odesk. Look at their screen logs very closely and their mouse and keyboard activity.

    Alternatively work on fixed fee. Do x many y for $z.
     
    Posted: Feb 7, 2011 By: RadiusBPO Member since: Jun 11, 2010
  2. gmoto

    gmoto UKBF Newcomer Free Member

    150 20
    Which gives us the current trade off.
    That people are instead paid to do nothing because companies cannot afford to pay them to do something.
    Which means a higher tax bill for everyone. Which means people can't afford to spend as much, etc.

    As I'm starting a new business in a different part of the country, I've just got a room in a shared house. I went for the cheapest one in the end (cost over a year could 'justify' a DSLR for taking business pics that I know I don't REALLY need.) Not the nicest or cleanest place, but a warm room with a roof and the normal facilities. £52 per week all in. Walking/cycling distance from work.

    Lets say I was on £3 per hour. I would still be left with £272 per month to buy food and 'luxuries' on top of that. Monthly shopping should definitely not come to over £72 if I was trying to eat cheaply (a skill many on state benefits really don't seem to understand.) £200 spending money a month is pretty decent for most people.
    No, I don't have kids. But then I wouldn't get myself near that position until I knew I had a stable base.

    Even before I was in the position of hiring people, I did think the minimum wage had been pushed too high; and that's not just bitterness that when I was in that sort of job I wasn't getting it!

    Because it's lower for teenagers, it also makes it harder for a lot of older people to get jobs in such positions.

    So, no I don't think you need £7.40 per hour to provide an 'acceptable' standard of living. Maybe a 'comfortable' standard of living, but I don't think that's a right.

    On the interns; this is something there's no way you can legislate against accross the board, I suspect. Was talking to someone at a friend's wedding; she wanted to do biological research as a career; related to her degree. But it was incredibly hard to get in to because so many people were doing it for free to try improve their future job prospects, or in some cases just because they enjoyed it.

    Finally, as has been noted elsewhere; how many people actually make a point of not using companies that go for the cheapest suppliers?
    I'm always impressed going to France how 95% of the cars you see are French - which does maybe explain why they have (even if they're generally part of a big conglomerate and all rebadge the same designs) why they still have more main stream car manufacturers.
     
    Posted: Feb 7, 2011 By: gmoto Member since: Jan 14, 2011
  3. pickaweb

    pickaweb UKBF Enthusiast Full Member

    518 43
    There is a lot of competition this days. There are countries like Philippines, India etc with excellent people, perfect english that can do many jobs remotely.
     
    Posted: Feb 7, 2011 By: pickaweb Member since: Oct 3, 2007
  4. bdw

    bdw Banned

    6,568 1,269
    With maths like that perhaps you should be in government with yer man Cameron. He would no doubt love you but I have to say that you must live in a different galaxy from the rest of us,
     
    Posted: Feb 7, 2011 By: bdw Member since: Aug 13, 2008
  5. gmoto

    gmoto UKBF Newcomer Free Member

    150 20
    Ok, done very quickly (4 week month I think) and assumed £3 take home.
    Lets take that from £3 before tax with a 40 hour working week, then.
    £3 * 40 hours * 52 weeks = £6240
    A random googled tax calculator says that's £6182.80 a year take home, or £513.23 a month.
    £513.23-£225=£288.23 (I'm paying £225 a month.)
    Actually slightly more.

    And 'different galaxy'. Maybe.
    My parents did VSO before I was born. They lived ok on a local teacher's wage in Africa. As I was growing up, I lived in Papua New Guinea. My parents actually got a good wage there, but that didn't mean they spent to excess. Clothes would often be too from a car-boot or charity shop, similarly for a lot of my toys as I was growing up.

    Back in the UK for a year and a bit while a teenager, my mum was on the Dole (Parents divorced then father killed in a RTA at 11). Despite a lot of people claiming how it wasn't fair they were getting so little, we managed to survive quite well enough during that time.

    The problem from what I've seen is that a lot of people in this country EXPECT having lots of expensive food, new shiny items and drinks at the pub to be part of 'basic living'.

    So, I'd love to hear what's really 'wrong' about it?
     
    Posted: Feb 7, 2011 By: gmoto Member since: Jan 14, 2011
  6. bdw

    bdw Banned

    6,568 1,269
    Emotive language like this is straight form the tory party political. People are not paid to do nothing they are given benefits to allow them to live and survive. Would you just let them and their families starve to death? What would your mum have done without dole money?

    Where is the evidence of this?

    AFAIC this is just the same old clichés being trotted out once again.
     
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2011
    Posted: Feb 7, 2011 By: bdw Member since: Aug 13, 2008
  7. stugster

    stugster UKBF Legend Full Member

    9,345 2,078
    Here's our latest one. PHP module for a billing system. Tried it myself, looked crazily complicated, don't have the time, gave it to one of the freelancers we have in the UK.

    Two days later, still nothing. Ask him what's going on, how much he thinks it'll cost. £250, fair play, get on with it.

    Almost a week after that, still struggling to get it complete.

    Post advert on Freelancer. Ukrainian posts bid for $200 (not £200 mind).

    Within ten minutes of him posting, he's asking for the API documentation.

    I send to him for him to confirm he can definitely do the job.

    Within two hours of this, he has an example online proving he can (and has) done it.

    Give me a business reason why I should employ the UK based guy?
     
    Posted: Feb 7, 2011 By: stugster Member since: Feb 1, 2007
  8. JamesHall174

    JamesHall174 UKBF Newcomer Free Member

    314 61
    BDW, I think you are right and wrong in equal measures here.

    Having worked hard for many years to build a good standard of living for myself and was then unfortunate enought o find myself unemployed for a period of time and, to be honest, the state did nothing to help me because what little benefit I did receive barely touched the surface of my outgoings to keep me and my family from starving as you put it, so to a certain extent the state did leave me to starve despite me being desperate to work.

    The other side of the coin was that I had to sit a job centre with people who had never worked and had no intention of working who were managing quite comfortably on what the state was handing over.

    So there are instances where the state could help, sometimes does and no one would be against that.

    But there are instances where people are taking the Michael and do get everything given to them for nothing and if the tory/lib agenda is to fix that, I am all for it, I just wish they would get on with it
     
    Posted: Feb 7, 2011 By: JamesHall174 Member since: Jan 5, 2011
  9. crossdaz

    crossdaz UKBF Newcomer Free Member

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    There isn't one - I don't think anyone's saying otherwise in this instance?
     
    Posted: Feb 7, 2011 By: crossdaz Member since: Sep 3, 2008
  10. Consistency

    Consistency Banned

    8,214 1,545
    Are you sure this wasn't Thairack to try and hire a tie while he saves up for one all of his own!
     
    Posted: Feb 7, 2011 By: Consistency Member since: May 21, 2010
  11. stugster

    stugster UKBF Legend Full Member

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    I know :) I just hoped someone could
     
    Posted: Feb 7, 2011 By: stugster Member since: Feb 1, 2007
  12. Podge

    Podge UKBF Newcomer Free Member

    1,154 367
    I couldn't agree more, something needs to be done about the tiny (less than 1%) amount of fraudulentl benefit claimants.
    I just don't think the cost should fall on the ( over 99%) legititmate claimants.
    Quoting from your post....
    "Having worked hard for many years to build a good standard of living"
    The average minimum wage earner can never hope to achieve in their lifetime a good standard of living. Do you not think that is in some way wrong ?
     
    Posted: Feb 7, 2011 By: Podge Member since: Jan 13, 2011
  13. gmoto

    gmoto UKBF Newcomer Free Member

    150 20
    Bah, post got killed in computer crash, so quickly...
    My mum would have problably taken a lower paying job. She was looking for teaching jobs, could have got part time supply work; but usually would have meant she was out of pocket as she'd get the same in, but more outgoings.

    Not the point, though. The point was that more people could be getting an AVERAGE of more money, with less being paid out by the tax paper if there was a lower minimum wage.
    And that you CAN live on it; generally it seems to be a life style choice of wanting to keep what you had going - to some degree I can understand that for people with kids. I was saying, until I remembered that when I was 8/9 I lived in a bedsit with my mum for a term while she was studying for post-grad 'top up' style course in Cambridge to get her back in to UK teaching. It wasn't the worst thing in the world and that sort of experience perhaps allows me to appreciate the nicer things in life when I do have them.

    Lost the links I did have, but here's a very tabloid example:
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/new...ay-22000-worth-of-benefits-is-not-enough.html
    I've known enough people personally that complain. It's often the ones that have barely worked at all throughout their 'working' life. The UK benefits system does seem worse than other countries for 'encouraging' people like this.

    I've often thought that people on 'job seekers' should be put to some kind of incidental voluntary 'work' for say 15-20 hours a week to get the money. Of course, reality is there's a hell of a lot of problems with that kind of 'model' unfortunately.
     
    Posted: Feb 7, 2011 By: gmoto Member since: Jan 14, 2011
  14. JamesHall174

    JamesHall174 UKBF Newcomer Free Member

    314 61
    Podge

    I am not talking about fraudulant claimants, I am talking about people who just have no intention of working and are quite happy to live on state benefit, fraud is a completely different issue. I have every sympathy for anyone who wants to work and cannot find work and has to try and make ends meet. My comment was about my actual experiences being sat in job centres talking to people behind the desk who were in a difficult position and often admitted they thought the systemt was wrong, whilst listening to someone sat at the next desk who obviously just wasnt interested in trying to work.

    I don't understand you point about a minimum wage earner not being able to achieve a good standard of living. I haven't mentioned anything about the minimum wage, I know other posts have. And there is a way for a minimum wage earner to a achieve a good standard of living, they do what I and millions of other do and get out there and work to get to a point where they can earn more through training, hard graft and some ambition. Nobody handed me anything, my first job paid far less than the current minimum wage in real terms but I worked my way up, what prevents anyone else from doing the same?
     
    Posted: Feb 7, 2011 By: JamesHall174 Member since: Jan 5, 2011
  15. Podge

    Podge UKBF Newcomer Free Member

    1,154 367
    James.
    We have a working class in this country, we need a working class in this country. These are the people that serve you in the supermarket, empty your bins, cook and serve in the restaurants you dine in, answer your calls to a call centre and many many more minimum wage jobs. These are the people that can never hope to have a good standard of living - like your hard work afforded you - no matter how hard they work.
    If you think the entire working class can move up the social mobility ladder you're living in cloud cuckoo land.
     
    Posted: Feb 7, 2011 By: Podge Member since: Jan 13, 2011
  16. JamesHall174

    JamesHall174 UKBF Newcomer Free Member

    314 61
    Podge, I don't disagree with you and I come from a working class family myself and I am not in any way trying to do that down. I never actually said anything about thinking the minimum wage being too high or that I thought it was bad you just picked up that I said I had worked hard to give myself a standard of living and linked that to people on minimum wage never being able to have that.

    What is your point! I worked hard to drag myself up to a better standard of living, no mention of minimum wage, what I object to is the good for nothing work shy that are dragging this country down and preventing the hard working people on minimum wage being to have any additional state help on top of their wages because of layabouts sponging off the state.

    This country is going to the dogs because we are not competitive anymore because companies are working with their hands tied behind their backs and individuals are not allowed to make their own decisions about how they work and the conditions they accept.
     
    Posted: Feb 7, 2011 By: JamesHall174 Member since: Jan 5, 2011
  17. bdw

    bdw Banned

    6,568 1,269
    And scrapping or reducing the minimum wage and benefits is going to change that?
     
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2011
    Posted: Feb 7, 2011 By: bdw Member since: Aug 13, 2008
  18. JamesHall174

    JamesHall174 UKBF Newcomer Free Member

    314 61
    I never said it should be!!!
     
    Posted: Feb 7, 2011 By: JamesHall174 Member since: Jan 5, 2011
  19. JamesHall174

    JamesHall174 UKBF Newcomer Free Member

    314 61
    And lets be honest the minimum wage is a joke, it is not enough for people to live on.

    So my point is, we cannot compete with countries abroad now because our minimum wage is often a fortune to them.

    My original posts way back when this thread started was to say I really fear for this country because I don't know what we are going to do to become competitive again!
     
    Posted: Feb 7, 2011 By: JamesHall174 Member since: Jan 5, 2011
  20. Simply Bedrooms

    Simply Bedrooms UKBF Regular Full Member

    138 15
    scrapping the minimum wage will definately put more people in work. If some can live on benefits and survive then why cant they live on a wage paid by an employer. even if it is the bear minimum and we should let the market decide what that is.
     
    Posted: Feb 7, 2011 By: Simply Bedrooms Member since: Apr 27, 2010
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