Employing in Philippines - I'll never hire in UK again.

[JohnnyCash]

Has anyone else given up employing in the UK?

We run a business which involves lots of different websites, so we don't require a physical presence anywhere for it.

Hiring in the UK brings far too many problems, with workers taking <<<profanity removed by mod>>> at every opportunity. You can get people abroad for significantly less money, and in general their work ethic is a lot better. Combine that with significantly lower costs and its a win win (for the employer, not the UK tax man or the UK as a whole...)

Employees here have just gone too far. From recent threads here alone, we've got this guy who was sacked for theft, but now preparing a discrimination case because he's not married...

Then we've got this chap who bad mouthed his boss to anyone who would listen, gets fired... and out comes the "discrimination" card as he's apparently a homosexual. It seems if you're gay, non-white, disabled or of a religious minority you're untouchable in the work place, regardless of your conduct. God help you if you have a one legged gay black Muslim working for you...

I could pick out dozens of threads where the employer is being shafted here but thats not really the aim of this thread... discussing outsourcing out of the UK completely is.

We already outsource extensively, but with most people reporting directly to me or my business partner. A lot of these people are hired on a per job basis.

We're now going to go one step further and hire a full group of people working from the Philippines. They won't be working from an office, they will all be home based but working full time for us.

From a job advert placed on onlinejobs.ph yesterday afternoon (note - you need to pay $50 to sign up there), we have 125 applications already.

We are going to hire one higher end employee with a fair amount of experience, and leave them in charge of 5 or 6 other employees. So we will only interact directly with one of them and let them delegate everything else.

One really good employee will cost 20-30k php a month, with the other 5 costing between 10-15k each. So that leaves us paying 70-105k a month, which is £1000 - £1500 total, for 6 employees. All of these people will be educated to a degree level. Most of them will have better English than a typical school leaver in the UK. All of them will have a better work ethic than someone the job centre could give me.

I can only see more and more internet based jobs going that way. Give the employers all the hassle, expense and risk and combine it with uneducated lazy people who think the world owes them a living and you'll only see more and more go offshore...

Has anyone else successfully went in this direction? Or tried it and switched back?

Do you think its "right" to do this? I don't feel I owe the UK, the taxman or the general public anything, so I'll do whats right for me alone. If its a choice between hiring 6 Brits or buying a Ferrari... well I hope those people know where the nearest benefits office is...

 

[adventurelife]

What you highlight is a very fast growing trend that is not being picked up by those in power.

I have to have UK employees because we deliver a hands on service face to face but I also have lots of other work that can be done by anyone anywhere and my experience to date is good.

The more connected the world becomes the faster this trend will develop. It is full of challenges of UKPLC and if we do not rise to the opportunities that come with it the UK is going to get trashed.

 

[JamesHall174]

It's a tricky one as to whether or not it is right for the UK, unfortunately sometimes you have to do what is right for you.

I am in the process of setting up a trial for some in the philipines and so far I am impressed but only time will tell.

The thing that led me to it was not just the cost but all the things you mentioned around difficult, lazy employee's.

I genuinely fear for the future of this country sometimes but hopefully at some point I will get my business to the point where I can run it from a villa in the Alpujarras mountains!!!

I have sent you a PM about something you might be interested in.

 

[Mpg]

I think my couriers would struggle with the extra driving. But I do see your point.

However. I'm sure I've seen an article regarding a change to the employment laws for small business. Although it will probably only be relevent to one man bands with no staff

 

[Employment Law Clinic]

However. I'm sure I've seen an article regarding a change to the employment laws for small business. Although it will probably only be relevent to one man bands with no staff

Mpg,

As far as employment law is concerned, there's not much that will help small businesses on the horizon. You may be referring to an article that mentioned the changes to unfair dismissal, requiring two year's service in the future, but the proposed changes are actually a lot more extensive & are more than balanced by a lot of potential costs to small businesses. Clare (CCP) mentioned it in a thread yesterday.



Karl Limpert

 

[letterboxunlimited]

What are you using to manage all these people? I currently use basecamp etc along with odesk and the other usual suspects.

Have you found any quality issues taking people directly from the jobs board?

 

[JohnnyCash]

What are you using to manage all these people? I currently use basecamp etc along with odesk and the other usual suspects.

Have you found any quality issues taking people directly from the jobs board?

I'm not going to be dealing with them directly, I am only going to be speaking with the one person in charge.

Right now I'm not using any software at all to handle management of employees - spreadsheets and notepad files. Not the best method I know, but it works. We mostly plan out what needs to happen on each website for the full month ahead, and just let people get on with it.

I'm having my coder create an employee logging system for our biggest shopping comparison site, which will let me see exactly how many deals each person adds per day, and what timeframe through each day they are doing it on (so I can see if they vanish for an hour etc)

 

[letterboxunlimited]

OK, Im IN

Will give it a try - v - odesk and post my results

 

[thetime22]

What about hiring Aussies and Kiwis?

 

[JohnnyCash]

What about hiring Aussies and Kiwis?

Too expensive.

 

[thetime22]

Well it's a sad day in this country when it's a better idea to hire someone from the Philippines. No disrespect the them but if this trend continues the unemployment levels are going to raise through the roof. Isn't it a legal hell hole hiring someone outside the EU?

 

[JohnnyCash]

Isn't it a legal hell hole hiring someone outside the EU?

No, its really simple. They are working from their own homes on their own equipment etc. We just have them send us an invoice and pay it with Paypal.

 

[RadiusBPO]

I do the same and at some points have up to 15 people working full time all on a freelance basis.

Common misconceptions is they don't speak English, they don't work GMT, they don't know what they are doing but in reality they do actually have better English than me, work whenever required and have IT degrees so at least have some problem solving skills.

Problem with Freelancers is they sometimes go to another job or they will be working 20 hours per day for you, me, him and her so end up exhausted and ineffective and if your team lives in small towns / villages and sometimes cities their power and internet isn't 100% reliable. My main guy had a lot of issues last monsoon season.


Why don't I hire in the UK? Cost. I'm still in start up phase, my main passive income sites aren't ranking yet and I don't have a large client base so to remain cost effective and to deliver what I promise I need to outsource to PH.

Why PH and not India? PH culture is more similar to here. My experience with outsourcing to Indian is that the people I worked with would never say No, or tell me they don't understand what I'm talking about. This might be because they have a very can do culture but it didn't work for me. PH guys will generally tell me to repeat what I said because I don't make sense 1/2 the time.


What about the loss of jobs and tax revenues to the UK? Big business has been doing this forever, now with the internet use rising in developing nations smaller business can leverage their currency against theirs. I also like to think of myself as a globalist helping increase the average living standard across the world

Future plans? I've had some of my team scouting locations for offices, costs or internet and electricity and will be this year opening an office their to bring everything inhouse, increase reliability and for quality assurance. Hopefully help staff retention rates as well. As most of PH offices are used at night for call centers for the USA day time office rent is very small and they sometimes already have the equipment so it will be easy to do this. After research Cebu will likely be the location.

 

[akirk]

on paper -this does look a good way forward, and where a business can take a hands-off management approach then it can work...

however, management of staff abroad can give a lot of issues...

I also think that increasingly we will see customers wanting to deal with UK companies - see it already, they can come and talk to you / speak to the guys doing the work / etc...

and in fact there are a lot of hard working honest brits...

perhaps more skills are needed in interviewing / applicant selecting...?

Alasdair

 

[DesignerNick]

I have used PH VA's in the past and found them really helpful and it got to the point where it was a bit of a luxury as I didn't have that much for them to do.

They did speak / type great English and were honest and loyal and I think if I was in a position for them to be a lot more affective other than just link building then I would definitely use one again.

 

[telemax]

One of my clients in Canada who are a VFX/special effects/design studio are always coming up against competition from India and the far east and winning hands down, despite being 10 times the cost. It comes down to quality in that particular business.

 

[adventurelife]

For those that are considering doing this in a serious way. ie several full time employees I recommend some travel will be worth the investment and time.

Of course do your research on the web but then get on a plane and visit a few locations and speak to people face to face. Visit work units and see the technology that is available or not, experience the broadband etc

Most of all meet and build a relationship with those who are going to work for you.

If you invest in a office location go and work with the team for a good period of time at the start.

Also be aware that their is huge resources of university educated multi lingual talent with no work much closer to the UK than Asia. 3 hrs flight for less than £100 return and you are in Morocco.

 

[Podge]

I'm afraid I'll have to disagree with you.
Yes in the short term it looks like it makes perfect sense but by saving money now (and that's what you're doing it for no matter what you say to the contrary) you are storing up trouble for the future, that is of course if you don't mind following your work out of the country.
For every job that get's outsourced that's another one added to the dole queue, how many until the benefit bill becomes to big and taxes have to be raised to supprt it ?
Take you as an example 6 for the price of one, thats 6 people you have taken out of the economy as well as adding £62.5k to the anual benefit bill, how long do you think that can be sustained ?
We will never again have a sizeable industrial workforce, we have turned into a nation of predominantly service providers with employers unwilling to provide us with employment, How is that sustainable ?
And let us once and for all blow this myth out of the water that all british employees are lazy exploitative scum. There are as many tribunal cases win as fail so it's no good just blaming the employee you are both as bad as each other, and I mean collective employers and not you personaly.
I'm not blind to your view but there was a time when most people were happy to make a living, now, it seems for a lot of people that's not quite enough.
Yes, for your business what you are doing makes sound economic sense and is good business practice and I'm not sure if I were in your position I wouldn't do exactly the same thing, however with this happening I don't think the long term future looks good for the country as a whole.

 

[JohnnyCash]

Sure, cost is the primary reason I'm doing it.

I have already moved out of the UK and the companies will be following me, so purely from a selfish point of view I could not care less about unemployment, UK tax or £62k more on the benefits bill. Not me that has to pick up the tab...

Selfish I know - I just don't care.

 

[adventurelife]

I'm afraid I'll have to disagree with you.
Yes in the short term it looks like it makes perfect sense but by saving money now (and that's what you're doing it for no matter what you say to the contrary) you are storing up trouble for the future, that is of course if you don't mind following your work out of the country.
For every job that get's outsourced that's another one added to the dole queue, how many until the benefit bill becomes to big and taxes have to be raised to supprt it ?
Take you as an example 6 for the price of one, thats 6 people you have taken out of the economy as well as adding £62.5k to the anual benefit bill, how long do you think that can be sustained ?
We will never again have a sizeable industrial workforce, we have turned into a nation of predominantly service providers with employers unwilling to provide us with employment, How is that sustainable ?
And let us once and for all blow this myth out of the water that all british employees are lazy exploitative scum. There are as many tribunal cases win as fail so it's no good just blaming the employee you are both as bad as each other, and I mean collective employers and not you personaly.
I'm not blind to your view but there was a time when most people were happy to make a living, now, it seems for a lot of people that's not quite enough.
Yes, for your business what you are doing makes sound economic sense and is good business practice and I'm not sure if I were in your position I wouldn't do exactly the same thing, however with this happening I don't think the long term future looks good for the country as a whole.

The future can be as you describe or it can be what we make it. You like the rest of us do not have a choice the world has decided to go down the globalization route and has put in the infrastructure to do so.

To me that gives two options

Complain about it and get squeezed or fully understand it and work with the opportunities it creates which are many.

I know for 100% sure other developing countries are running and running fast so the longer we stand still the more likely we will get destroyed.

Also it is not straight forward as you mention. Lest take the 6 jobs removed from the country what if those 6 jobs create work that is then down by employees in this country, what if those 6 employees are super productive and create lots of jobs in this country.

It is not simple it is exceedingly complex what is happening and will get more so but the only way to get a handle on it is to get involved.

 

[Podge]

Also it is not straight forward as you mention. Lest take the 6 jobs removed from the country what if those 6 jobs create work that is then down by employees in this country, what if those 6 employees are super productive and create lots of jobs in this country.

Can we come back to reality

The problem I have with globalisation is I can see how it's affecting the members of society least able to provide for themselves. Yes I know you say there are plenty of opportunities, but those opportunities aren't available to all for any number of different reasons.
Your rush to globalisation leaves suffering in it's wake and that's why I don't want to embrace it.

 

[Consultant sea]

Some people don't have much of an option but to outsource as with the way things are now they may not have the money to employ any UK people or that their business wouldn't be able to function with the money vs manpower they can afford. This is one of the reasons they have to outsource. Been going on for ages with the like of big companies outsourcing Customer Services and the likes. It's not that they are giving UK jobs to foreigners as the company doesn't have enough money to employ the equivalent amount of UK workers. Better the small business paying the 20% tax on its profits than that small business owner on the dole queue too. What a world we live in.

In regards to Filipinos. I have employed and worked personally with over 30 in the past 5 years and they have a great work ethic. They are driven by money like most I guess and loved to work harder for more bonus. They are a very family oriented people and work to put their children into university/college and try and get them a good job and continue the cycle. Only thing I would question is some of their cooking! Pigs heads and all that but hey we're all just spoilt on imported M & S products.

 

[adventurelife]

Can we come back to reality

The problem I have with globalisation is I can see how it's affecting the members of society least able to provide for themselves. Yes I know you say there are plenty of opportunities, but those opportunities aren't available to all for any number of different reasons.
Your rush to globalisation leaves suffering in it's wake and that's why I don't want to embrace it.

I am talking reality as that is what I live. For every extra 16 clients per day I gain I need an extra member of staff. That is UK jobs being created, jobs that cannot be outsourced.

To take the example quoted should I use 1 UK employee to deliver the clients that create jobs or should I use 6 overseas people and deliver many more UK jobs?

I see members of society every month that are a hundred times worse off than any member of UK society so I suppose it depends on what society you are talking about.

I would argue that the rush to globalisation is taking way more people out of suffering that it is putting people into suffering. Not having a job in this country is a bit different from not having a job in other countries. For example you still eat in this country and get health care job or no job.

Looking inward is no longer an option and for us in the west who have passports and education and support systems we have no excuse at all not to embrace what is happening.

Off course there will be winners and losers, there always is no matter what the deal. No one said life was meant to be easy it has just become that for many and hence why they will struggle to embrace the challenges that are coming.

 

[Podge]

I am talking reality as that is what I live. For every extra 16 clients per day I gain I need an extra member of staff. That is UK jobs being created, jobs that cannot be outsourced.

To take the example quoted should I use 1 UK employee to deliver the clients that create jobs or should I use 6 overseas people and deliver many more UK jobs?

I see members of society every month that are a hundred times worse off than any member of UK society so I suppose it depends on what society you are talking about.

I would argue that the rush to globalisation is taking way more people out of suffering that it is putting people into suffering. Not having a job in this country is a bit different from not having a job in other countries. For example you still eat in this country and get health care job or no job.

Looking inward is no longer an option and for us in the west who have passports and education and support systems we have no excuse at all not to embrace what is happening.

Off course there will be winners and losers, there always is no matter what the deal. No one said life was meant to be easy it has just become that for many and hence why they will struggle to embrace the challenges that are coming.

Ahhhhh now I see where we differ.
I have a heart.

 

[adventurelife]

Ahhhhh now I see where we differ.
I have a heart.

Agree it has been pointed out that I am a ruthless bast--d on more than the odd time. However, normally by those who have never got of their backsides to help anyone else in their life.

I will be ruthlessly helping people in many countries this year as I do every year feel free to join me all help and donations are always grateful

Just $20 will educate a kid in Mongolia for a year. You can pay here Gobi2011 you feel good I get 2 months of pain.

Or later on in the year my team will be looking after 20 odd vets who have lost arms and legs in the recent wars again. All support welcome as it costs me a fortune each year.

I could go on but it may make me look like a soft touch so I will stop

 

[RedEvo]

I've built a great team here in the UK although I've also got overseas suppliers I can tap into. I love the buzz in the office, I love creating employment and seeing people grow, I love our white board learning sessions, I love seeing jobs whizzing through the office that I don't even have to know about.

It's challenging, frustrating, skewed employment law drives me to distraction but in the end I love it. I like investing in people and unlike some I do care about the UK and do enjoy doing my bit

d

 

[letterboxunlimited]

I do care about the UK and do enjoy doing my bit

The problem is the UK does not care about you, its great to be patriotic and love our country but is it really worth being as keen when the chances are your tax money will be paying for a junkie or used to pay for a £100k missile to kill an 18 year old boy with a 35 year old gun in a country where they we have no chance of winning a war.

Take a leaf out of Philip greens book and keep as much as legally can and spend it on yourself , your family or if you really like a charity.

<Rant Over/>

 

[RedEvo]

The problem is the UK does not care about you, its great to be patriotic and love our country.........

I'm not being patriotic, I hate nationalism on any level, it's nonsense to me. I care about people, society and the bigger picture, wherever I am, and I'm here.

d

 

[adventurelife]

I'm not being patriotic, I hate nationalism on any level, it's nonsense to me. I care about people, society and the bigger picture, wherever I am, and I'm here.

d

Totally agree but l consider the world as my home and take the view that the more all 6 billion soon to be 9 billion of us improve out lot they better for everyone

 

[Consistency]

Has anyone else given up employing in the UK?

We run a business which involves lots of different websites, so we don't require a physical presence anywhere for it.

Hiring in the UK brings far too many problems, with workers taking <<<profanity removed by mod>>> at every opportunity. You can get people abroad for significantly less money, and in general their work ethic is a lot better. Combine that with significantly lower costs and its a win win (for the employer, not the UK tax man or the UK as a whole...)

Employees here have just gone too far. From recent threads here alone, we've got this guy who was sacked for theft, but now preparing a discrimination case because he's not married...

Then we've got this chap who bad mouthed his boss to anyone who would listen, gets fired... and out comes the "discrimination" card as he's apparently a homosexual. It seems if you're gay, non-white, disabled or of a religious minority you're untouchable in the work place, regardless of your conduct. God help you if you have a one legged gay black Muslim working for you...

I could pick out dozens of threads where the employer is being shafted here but thats not really the aim of this thread... discussing outsourcing out of the UK completely is.

We already outsource extensively, but with most people reporting directly to me or my business partner. A lot of these people are hired on a per job basis.

We're now going to go one step further and hire a full group of people working from the Philippines. They won't be working from an office, they will all be home based but working full time for us.

From a job advert placed on onlinejobs.ph yesterday afternoon (note - you need to pay $50 to sign up there), we have 125 applications already.

We are going to hire one higher end employee with a fair amount of experience, and leave them in charge of 5 or 6 other employees. So we will only interact directly with one of them and let them delegate everything else.

One really good employee will cost 20-30k php a month, with the other 5 costing between 10-15k each. So that leaves us paying 70-105k a month, which is £1000 - £1500 total, for 6 employees. All of these people will be educated to a degree level. Most of them will have better English than a typical school leaver in the UK. All of them will have a better work ethic than someone the job centre could give me.

I can only see more and more internet based jobs going that way. Give the employers all the hassle, expense and risk and combine it with uneducated lazy people who think the world owes them a living and you'll only see more and more go offshore...

Has anyone else successfully went in this direction? Or tried it and switched back?

Do you think its "right" to do this? I don't feel I owe the UK, the taxman or the general public anything, so I'll do whats right for me alone. If its a choice between hiring 6 Brits or buying a Ferrari... well I hope those people know where the nearest benefits office is...

You probably knew I would thank you!!! Well said.

This country is going down the pan because it is being pushed down the pan. We would love to go down the route of employing like this but we need a physical presence. We cannot employ anyone from the philippines to come and do mobile patrols etc.

Going back some years I would have called you all the names under the sun for being someone who is selling us out to foreigners but there is nothing like experience. I can only now understand it. There is all the taxes, all the insurances, all the employment law where unless we have a solicitor by our side for all those little niggly bits that could have complications, we could really get into a lot of bother.

It is the ordinary white male, who is straight and fully functional that is now the underdog. There are all these tupe rights that is nothing but baggage. The longer someone has been in a place the more their feet are under the table and become rooted like a tree that is wrecking the foundations and are unmovable. We all know the types, the miserable gits who bring everyone else down but just have to be put up with.

I have every respect for you doing what is needed to run your business to make it financially viable. Years ago I would not have thought that way but we have to look after ourselves and if when we try and give "one of our own" a chance to come on board with our business, we get shot at and let down and have to pay quite a lot out to the detriment of our business then after quite a few times, the spirit will fade.

For me it has faded, I just want to stay small and employ as few as possible because it is just too much trouble. Whenever they leave for whatever reason they always seem to be entitled to something. Yet when we get shafted, we are not even entitled to an apology. It is saddening to our society indeed.

 

[JamesHall174]

I think it is really sad, because a lot of people would love to support business in there own country but there are a number of things that are making it far more difficult to do that and stay competitive (and I stress 'more difficult' not 'impossible')

- globalisation giving more access to overseas workers and products
- ludicrous employment laws, employees need protection but so do employers and the balance has swung far to far one way
- the continued insistance of the previous government that creating a huge machine of employees on the state payroll and the destruction of the manufacturing industry by successive governments has left us uncompetitive and exposed to cheap imports
- a laughable education system and a nanny state that produces people with no get up and go, no morals and no work ethic

Globalisation is picking up pace whether we like it or not. In my opinion, and it is only my opinion, there is a good chance the UK will end up as what we used to refer to as a '3rd world country' unless there is a radical change in policy and attitude which could take years and may come to late.

I love, no sorry that should have been loved, being British and living in this country. Now, on a regular basis, I feel embarrassed and despite not wanting to my aim is to make sure that I can get out of the country if things continue to slide.

I am not giving up hope but I am seriously worried where we are heading.

 

[virtuallysorted]

I wonder if any of the people demanding more rights for UK employees realise any of this? They are effectively pricing themselves out of the market and talking themselves out of a job.

What would be interesting is to allow employees to "opt out" of the protection of maternity leave, sick pay, holidays, minimum wage etc. rather like they do with minimum working hours legislation, and let them make the choice whether they want to work for a company who offers those benefits or for someone who doesn't.

Now ideally they'd want all those employee benefits and companies wanting the best employees would have to offer them. BUT there would be a huge raft of new jobs created by small businesses who would love to hire people but can't afford to have someone mess them about with employee benefits. And those employees without benefits would be better employees since they realise their value to the company lies in actually doing their job, not some sort of legal protection.

People always paint business owners as big, bad capitalists. I genuinely believe that most business owners are good people trying to do the best job possible, both as a boss and as a business.

 

[RedEvo]

People always paint business owners as big, bad capitalists.

Have to agree. I'm sick and tired of the nonsensical polarisation of private = bad, public = good. I think this is perpetuated by career politicians (the Oxbridge PPE brigade) who have never even run a car let alone a business.

I think I'm going to stand for Westminster, all those in favour say aye!!

d

 

[Amethyst]

I am a foreigner in UK, it is my first time to see such a topic deeply into something about love or loyalty to own country.

I have been struggling a lot with those things guys are talking about. Yes, I love my country. Looking at our long histry and any good bits, I want to embrace it and I am proud of my country. But going into daily life every day, I feel and experience those bad bits, I am sad and unhappy. There was one day, I heard someone saying in a TV series story :" I do love my country but my country don't love me". I am so impressed by this and I have been thinking a lot about whether my country loves me.

I still love my country but now I am in England. It is nothing to do with whether I love my country, it is all about how I make my own life. If I have no money to afford my own life, I would be a burdon to my country; if I make my own life, and I have money, I would like to give some to help those poor in my country, no matter where I am.

Unfortunally, I am still struggling here and try to find way out. I am not the lazy one who has no shame living on other people's hard work.

As a foreigner, I heard many british telling me how hopleless this country is, and the main problem for this country might be the government is too kind to the lazy. Cost is not the problem, the problem lies in what we get is not equal to what we pay. If I become an employee here, if a UK people can give me a good work which deserves what I pay, I would really not mind employ them and I would be proud of myself for my contribution to this country; but if not, I would outsource from other countries. First things first, what is the first thing? It is to make myself move on reasonably!

 

[JamesHall174]

Virtuallysorted - that is exactly the kind of sensible idea that I was referring to that could save this country from ruin.

I am a great believer in a fair day's pay for a fair days work and looking after employee's who prove themselves to be a valuable asset but what I don't want is people using legislation to hold me over a barrel! You are right when you say, not all employers are big bad capitalists and it is about time that some responsibility was put back on the individual to make their own way in life, mistakes and all, without the state running along behind waiting to catch them.

Unfortunately, good ideas dissappear under a mountain of EU red tape and nobody is willing to stand up and say, its our country and we are going to do what we want.

I honestly think we are heading for major civil unrest in the UK over the next couple of years if things don't start changing.

 

[JamesHall174]

aye!!!!! as long as I can secretary of state for the workshy and feckless!! with a seperate mandate for ridding the statute book of stupid rules!!

 

[virtuallysorted]

Have to agree. I'm sick and tired of the nonsensical polarisation of private = bad, public = good. I think this is perpetuated by career politicians (the Oxbridge PPE brigade) who have never even run a car let alone a business.

I think I'm going to stand for Westminster, all those in favour say aye!!

d

AYE!

(And while we're at it, can we fire all the lollipop ladies who stand in front of traffic lights? If the children are too stupid to use the pedestrian button, then clearly Darwinism should be allowed to take over!!)

 

[carolinebrown]

If you do not want to Employing in Philippines - I'll never hire in UK again.
Then it is ok

 

[crossdaz]

I wonder if any of the people demanding more rights for UK employees realise any of this? They are effectively pricing themselves out of the market and talking themselves out of a job.

Not in this instance becuase he's talking about freelancers.

 

[Consistency]

I wonder if any of the people demanding more rights for UK employees realise any of this? They are effectively pricing themselves out of the market and talking themselves out of a job.

What would be interesting is to allow employees to "opt out" of the protection of maternity leave, sick pay, holidays, minimum wage etc. rather like they do with minimum working hours legislation, and let them make the choice whether they want to work for a company who offers those benefits or for someone who doesn't.

Now ideally they'd want all those employee benefits and companies wanting the best employees would have to offer them. BUT there would be a huge raft of new jobs created by small businesses who would love to hire people but can't afford to have someone mess them about with employee benefits. And those employees without benefits would be better employees since they realise their value to the company lies in actually doing their job, not some sort of legal protection.

People always paint business owners as big, bad capitalists. I genuinely believe that most business owners are good people trying to do the best job possible, both as a boss and as a business.

With sense like that, we could do with you as an MP. A lot of common sense there. You would get my ote. Well said indeed, well said.