Educational Background for Seo

[fz04]

as there are many seo freelancers and companies on this site it would be interesting to know what education background many of you have to work in seo

or maybe some of you have a more work experience background to make qualified to work in seo

this could be a very good question for companies who look for seo experts to work for them i mean it doesnt make much sense to employ someone who has absolutely no educational background in seo

simply because google and all the major search engines employ phd's and highly education engineers to programme

and how someone with no educational background in the same subject can work in seo doesnt make sense

 

[Baz Watkins]

I have a degree in Marketing and Management, and 2 years post degree experience in SEO copywriting and PPC management, and now in my first year of self employment.

Oh, and I retrained, having spent the first 15 years of my working life in retail management.

Not sure if that qualifies me for anything in reality though?

 

[fz04]

I have a degree in Marketing and Management, and 2 years post degree experience in SEO copywriting and PPC management, and now in my first year of self employment.

thats a very good background, how are you finding the transition to seo

retraining is a very big step, its hard to find experienced staff especially with 15 years of experience

 

[Baz Watkins]

Well the SEO element at a basic level is fairly straightforward, its the more complex stuff thats the learning curve. Luckily for me I've set myself up as a web designer / digital marketer (Mostly copy and ppc), so I don't have to offer a single speciality which I yet havent got the tools for. I'm hiding under the umbrella of additional services alligned to web design.

 

[fz04]

Well the SEO element at a basic level is fairly straightforward, its the more complex stuff thats the learning curve. Luckily for me I've set myself up as a web designer / digital marketer (Mostly copy and ppc), so I don't have to offer a single speciality which I yet havent got the tools for. I'm hiding under the umbrella of additional services alligned to web design.

i can do both web design and i have a decent understanding of seo, but the market seems so saturated

i can understand how the web design business could work, wouldnt it be risky to offer an seo service but not being able to deliver results

 

[Baz Watkins]

I don't provide an SEO service per se, I offer web design, and general website marketing, so in relation to its seo copy amd meta work for the on-site content, and ppc, basic seo such as google web tools creation and directory inclusion for external off-site work.

That way I only offer whats relevant, it also allows me to stick around here and other places picking up knowledge as I go. In the end, as my knowledge increases, so my initial services expand in scope, i.e. seo copy for websites becomes full seo solutions in time.

i can do both web design and i have a decent understanding of seo, but the market seems so saturated

i can understand how the web design business could work, wouldnt it be risky to offer an seo service but not being able to deliver results

 

[fz04]

I don't provide an SEO service per se, I offer web design, and general website marketing, so in relation to its seo copy amd meta work for the on-site content, and ppc, basic seo such as google web tools creation and directory inclusion for external off-site work.

That way I only offer whats relevant, it also allows me to stick around here and other places picking up knowledge as I go. In the end, as my knowledge increases, so my initial services expand in scope, i.e. seo copy for websites becomes full seo solutions in time.

that makes sense, ive been thinking about doing something similar myself but at the moment the seo market seems too saturated

and from alot of the seo people ive seen their sales tactics are more about what they can blag more then what they can actually provide in end results

 

[Baz Watkins]

I don't blag, too risky, and anyway as a new firm I don't want to run the risk of taking someones money under false pretences. I believe if a client is willing to pay you their hard earned, not to promise them anything you can't deliver. I charge the rate I'm worth for the level of knowledge I have, so in respect to PPC costs, my prices are based more towards start ups and small companies, and not the big spenders. In relation to websites, I'm not a designer more of a builder, so i state up front that I use templates which I then edit for seo and design purposes.

If I was allowed i'd link you to my site to give you a better idea, but I can't soz.

that makes sense, ive been thinking about doing something similar myself but at the moment the seo market seems too saturated

and from alot of the seo people ive seen their sales tactics are more about what they can blag more then what they can actually provide in end results

 

[fz04]

I don't blag, too risky, and anyway as a new firm I don't want to run the risk of taking someones money under false pretences. I believe if a client is willing to pay you their hard earned, not to promise them anything you can't deliver. I charge the rate I'm worth for the level of knowledge I have, so in respect to PPC costs, my prices are based more towards start ups and small companies, and not the big spenders. In relation to websites, I'm not a designer more of a builder, so i state up front that I use templates which I then edit for seo and design purposes.

If I was allowed i'd link you to my site to give you a better idea, but I can't soz.

your right, its best to be honest with a client and i just had a look at your site from your profile, its a nice site

 

[Baz Watkins]

Thanks.

your right, its best to be honest with a client and i just had a look at your site from your profile, its a nice site

 

[awebapart.com]

I am not an SEO professional. First and foremost I am a software developer.

But I do find that my computer science degree (1989) and my software development experience since then, is extremely helpful when trying to figure out how the google search engine works, and how to optimise for it. Especially since the google search engine is also developed by computer scientists/software developers too.

 

[terryuk]

I have a few GCSE's, coming up to 6-7 yrs experience in SEO and no one wants to give me a job lol not that I'm looking but they like graduates who can build a few links how they tell them to.

 

as there are many seo freelancers and companies on this site it would be interesting to know what education background many of you have to work in seo

or maybe some of you have a more work experience background to make qualified to work in seo

this could be a very good question for companies who look for seo experts to work for them i mean it doesnt make much sense to employ someone who has absolutely no educational background in seo

simply because google and all the major search engines employ phd's and highly education engineers to programme

and how someone with no educational background in the same subject can work in seo doesnt make sense

Afraid no amount of education can make a person intelligent which is possibly the main ingredient for success in most spheres of human endevour.

You have to get that from your mum and dad.

Earl

 

[fz04]

Afraid no amount of education can make a person intelligent

Earl

if you can write something like that i would have to agree with you 100%

 

[fz04]

I am not an SEO professional. First and foremost I am a software developer.

But I do find that my computer science degree (1989) and my software development experience since then, is extremely helpful when trying to figure out how the google search engine works, and how to optimise for it. Especially since the google search engine is also developed by computer scientists/software developers too.

that is very interesting, many people say that if they work in a field in which they studied it usually goes hand in hand

i have just had a look at your website and one of the websites in your portfolio

http://www.elsbyandco.co.uk/

is very similar to a website template which is for a coffee shop

 

is very similar to a website template which is for a coffee shop

Coffee and tea are the main ingredients in SEO.:|

without a constant supply nothing works.

Earl

 

[akirk]

Afraid no amount of education can make a person intelligent which is possibly the main ingredient for success in most spheres of human endevour.

You have to get that from your mum and dad.

Earl

Unfortunately they won't give it to me
They said that they gave me pocket money when I was younger and that would have to do
Instead I now Seek Excellence in Others

Alasdair

 

[fisicx]

I've got an o-level in maths, a grade 4 trumpet thing and a certificate for swimming. It that any help?

Sorry, forgot to say I was a sixer in the cubs as well.

 

[awebapart.com]

i have just had a look at your website and one of the websites in your portfolio ... is very similar to a website template which is for a coffee shop

I think that is going off topic a bit! But since you mentioned it...

The imagery for the site in question came about as part of an overall stationery, brochures, web rebranding exercise in 2008 undertaken by the site-owner's graphic design agency, and it was their intention to go for that look as part of the rebranding.

The site in question is not doing too bad for its primary SEO terms, but I'm not looking for a site review, if I was I would post a new thread in the private forum where site reviews go, but I'm not.

 

[fz04]

so from all the replies only one person has an educational background in IT

it is very suprising that alot of people can offer seo services without any understanding of the science which underlies search engine optimisation

and when pitching services to companies it must be just a big blag using buzz words such as getting up google "serps" "organic" "social media" "content" "blog" "backlinks" etc

and i have seen an example of someone from an seo company pitching himself to a company i did seo for and the guy just didnt have a clue

 

so from all the replies only one person has an educational background in IT

it is very suprising that alot of people can offer seo services without any understanding of the science which underlies search engine optimisation

Oh well I supect that as I have a degree in engineering and have been writting programs for computers since 1975 and in particular been doing SEO since probably before you could stand on two legs allied to having studied every google patent under the sun .

I suspect my practical experience may blast anyones theoretical experience to kingdom come,and that would be just using one finger.

Of course I could be wrong ..

Go on surprise me,I don't mind eating yet one more of me hats.

Earl

 

[akirk]

fz04 (do you actually have a name?)

you seem to be posting a lot of threads with one particular theme - that the only way to be in business as an SEO is to have a computer / science / analytical qualification, preferably at post-grad level...

with a strong suggestion that without that you have no chance / can not be good...

now, I may have misunderstood the purpose of your doing this, but I assume that it is because you have that background and believe that you are therefore differentiated, so this is your way of putting others down and promoting yourself?

The simple reality is that while the patent details for Google's algorithms are technical, as is the published formula (what there is of it), SEO does not need that kind of background.

If we were to put SEO into blunt non-technical / non-IT terminology (and yes, over simplified for the purpose of making the point):

On-site - good and relevant content / well structured / appropriate vocabulary / appropriate markup.

Off-site - references and links to the website of as relevant and as important a nature as possible - well regarded websites / relevant articles or content / appropriately placed links / appropriate markup etc.

Ultimately Google are looking for relevance and content - if 90% of sites bothered to do the above then we would have search results which reflected the initial search term accurately - playing the SEO game works not because it is the correct approach, but because, in the absence of the majority of websites tackling even the basics, those using SEO magic are able to push their sites above where they would naturally rank...

If more people realised that actually the key is getting valuable content / of a relevant nature out there then the SEO scene would be very different - and we would have better search engine results...

and in all of that there is absolutely no need to have a scientific / IT / technological background... either as the website author, or even as an SEO practitioner - as no-one fully knows Googles algorithms aoutside the company, why do you need to understand it in detail - you need to understand which actions cause which results - not the maths behind it.

A very over-simplified argument - but I trust that it makes sense - when search engines are basing their results on relevance / content - they need algorithms to calculate this (they are bots, not humans!), however the site owner as an expert in their content obviously has no need to refer to algorithms - they already know what the content is / what is relevant - if they don't then their site will be no good anyway and doesn't deserve to rank well!

So, lets leave the maths to the bots who need it - as humans fortunately we have a simple answer - good content / relevant to the questions being asked / get it linked and out there...

simple and not a single forumla in that!

Alasdair

 

[fz04]

Oh well I supect that as I have a degree in engineering and have been writting programs for computers since 1975 and in particular been doing SEO since probably before you could stand on two legs allied to having studied every google patent under the sun .

I suspect my practical experience may blast anyones theoretical experience to kingdom come,and that would be just using one finger.

Of course I could be wrong ..

Go on surprise me,I don't mind eating yet one more of me hats.

Earl

easy tiger

no need to get excited

its not difficult to get a car insurance company to number one google

all depends on what keywords you are targeting

now if its industry related then it is very very difficult

if it is an obscure word it would be easier but still time consuming

in search engine optimisation all the practical is derived from theory

you would only trust a qualified certified accountant to do your tax return, their practical experience is directly derived from their theoretical study

in this respect if you dont have a solid background in the theory your practical is very limited to ideas you are going to get from the web

now alot of the search engines are heavily semantic based and if you have no comprehension of semantics then your very limited in how you can manipulate google and the other search engines

so to sum up

for someone to be good at search engine optimisation they would need to have a good theoretical understanding of

a) Computer science

b) Semantics

and finally some experience of putting the above in to practise

if someone can provide proof they dont have any theoretical understanding of computer science and semantics and have a website at number 1 on google for a competitive industry with related keywords then that could prove me wrong otherwise i dont think its ever happening

and one last thing

to understand semantics you need to have an understanding of more then one language and to have studied the languages

 

easy tiger

no need to get excited

its not difficult to get a car insurance company to number one google

To sum up you just shot yourself in the foot big time.

What time do you start school.?

Earl

 

[fz04]

fz04 (do you actually have a name?)

you seem to be posting a lot of threads with one particular theme - that the only way to be in business as an SEO is to have a computer / science / analytical qualification, preferably at post-grad level...

with a strong suggestion that without that you have no chance / can not be good...

now, I may have misunderstood the purpose of your doing this, but I assume that it is because you have that background and believe that you are therefore differentiated, so this is your way of putting others down and promoting yourself?

The simple reality is that while the patent details for Google's algorithms are technical, as is the published formula (what there is of it), SEO does not need that kind of background.

If we were to put SEO into blunt non-technical / non-IT terminology (and yes, over simplified for the purpose of making the point):

On-site - good and relevant content / well structured / appropriate vocabulary / appropriate markup.

Off-site - references and links to the website of as relevant and as important a nature as possible - well regarded websites / relevant articles or content / appropriately placed links / appropriate markup etc.

Ultimately Google are looking for relevance and content - if 90% of sites bothered to do the above then we would have search results which reflected the initial search term accurately - playing the SEO game works not because it is the correct approach, but because, in the absence of the majority of websites tackling even the basics, those using SEO magic are able to push their sites above where they would naturally rank...

If more people realised that actually the key is getting valuable content / of a relevant nature out there then the SEO scene would be very different - and we would have better search engine results...

and in all of that there is absolutely no need to have a scientific / IT / technological background... either as the website author, or even as an SEO practitioner - as no-one fully knows Googles algorithms aoutside the company, why do you need to understand it in detail - you need to understand which actions cause which results - not the maths behind it.

A very over-simplified argument - but I trust that it makes sense - when search engines are basing their results on relevance / content - they need algorithms to calculate this (they are bots, not humans!), however the site owner as an expert in their content obviously has no need to refer to algorithms - they already know what the content is / what is relevant - if they don't then their site will be no good anyway and doesn't deserve to rank well!

So, lets leave the maths to the bots who need it - as humans fortunately we have a simple answer - good content / relevant to the questions being asked / get it linked and out there...

simple and not a single forumla in that!

Alasdair

hi alasdair

thanks for that

im not here to put people down as i dont work in seo for a living ( i might try in the future as i have had good success on the couple of projects i have done for people as one offs)

i write the threads/posts because i see alot of website design companies and seo companies on here who i think are short changing customers

many businesses do not have a clue about website design and seo

and then i see some cowboys on here and you can tell they are cowboys by just looking at their web design company website which usually is composed of

a) a simple template
b) bad design
c) no color coordination
d) absolutely no relevance in the site to seo

so im just giving 2 cents which is aimed to help new businesses to webdesign/seo avoid themselves getting scammed

and i agree with you 100% to start off seo all the points you have written are all valid and that is usually the case the some se "magic" no matter how incompetant usually gets a site higher when othersites have had no seo "magic" done

the downside of this is that from a companies perspective if that is all your seo service is about it can be done by anyone who has studied the idiots guide to the web in a day as it is very very simple stuff as all you would need is a free website editor, a few self made blogs, open a google words campaign and set a limit, and spam a few links to some websites

if that is all seo is about then yes every seo company on here are fully qualified professionals with great expertise

 

[fz04]

To sum up you just shot yourself in the foot big time.

What time do you start school.?

Earl

and this just shows you are totally unqualified for semantic seo

read the next sentence to understand the context in which the sentence you quoted applies to

heres some advice dont try reading books you might get a headache

 

and then i see some cowboys on here and you can tell they are cowboys by just looking at their web design company website which usually is composed of

Sometimes its even easier to tell the cowboys by what they say.

Earl

 

[fz04]

quote=sirearl;1508343]Sometimes its even easier to tell the cowboys by what they say.

Earl[/quote]

yeah..

 

[unet]

come on guys stop with the bun fighting and my degree is better than yours.Tt makes the forum lame and contributers look unprofessional. I am sure everyone has a different take on quals vs experience etc.

 

[MASSEY]

I wonder how much education the seo's in India or the philippines have.

Probably none yet they are still good at seo :|

 

come on guys stop with the bun fighting and my degree is better than yours.Tt makes the forum lame and contributers look unprofessional. I am sure everyone has a different take on quals vs experience etc.

Is that your professional opinion.?

Only I feel I have a moral and public duty to expose charlatans in the SEO industry.

As far to much misinformation is posted on the SEO forum as it is,which may result in the general public making some rather costly mistakes.

Earl

 

[Digger]

" aimed to help new businesses to webdesign/seo avoid themselves getting scammed"

Some might provide poor service - but a long way from being "scammed" surely?

or have I got my semantics awry?

 

[RadiusBPO]

I wonder how much education the seo's in India or the philippines have.

Probably none yet they are still good at seo :|

Actually almost all have IT / Computer degrees which obviously helps them a lot when blog commenting or directory submissions. They need to know the maths behind it!

 

[DesignerNick]

I suspect my practical experience may blast anyones theoretical experience to kingdom come,and that would be just using one finger.

I totally agree.

After working in IT I would see graduates doing work placements all of the time and most of the time if it wasn't as the book read they would be lost and could only think in the ways they were taught rather than outside the box. They would come into the job flashing their degrees and qualifications yet somebody who had been doing the job since they were 16 had to show them how to do a lot of things.

Not to mention somebody I know who got a degree in a Web Design / Multimedia course yet still asks me for help because their work is diabolical. They are just good at exams

I don't claim to be the best in the market at anything that I do but I can safely say that experience does count a lot of the time.

 

[directmarketingadvice]

its not difficult to get a car insurance company to number one google

Fz04,

Have you actually ever SEO'd a website for a competitive term?

Maybe I got the wrong end of the stick, but I had the impression you were just in the process of trying to learn SEO.

so to sum up

for someone to be good at search engine optimisation they would need to have a good theoretical understanding of

a) Computer science

Oh, please.

b) Semantics

No, not that either.

Steve

 

[cmcp]

I wonder how much education the seo's in India or the philippines have.

<<<Profanity Removed>>> What a terrible comment.

 

[unet]

<<<Profanity Removed>>> What a terrible comment.

and the point of your response was...................

IMO: I work with a lot of asian seo's and many do not have a top notch degree from oxford but do the job very well.

I just do not buy into a person with a 1st class with limited experience in the market place can compare to someone with no degree and 10 years experience.

I would rate a business and marketing degree over some strange SEO degree any days of the week, however you cannot beat expeience in the SEO field as whatever has been taught in the "classroom" is so out of date and search engines evolve constantly............

 

[cmcp]

and the point of your response was...................

I don't think I could have expressed the point any clearer - I feel generalising that someone probably won't have an education because they are from India to be highly offensive.

Do you now understand the "point of my response?"

 

[unet]

I don't think I could have expressed the point any clearer - I feel generalising that someone probably won't have an education because they are from India to be highly offensive.

Do you now understand the "point of my response?"

nope not really, dont think massey was being offensive as clearly the UK has a much better education system. As the thread relates to education / seo then its was a relevant response however just saying "terrible" comment so you can can improve you post count and start yet another bun fight is not relevant. ( i will take a current bun rather than plain )

 

[cmcp]

nope not really

Then I can't help you any more.

as clearly the UK has a much better education system.

India has the third largest higher education system in the world, their graduates are of a very high standard.

however just saying "terrible" comment so you can can improve you post count and start yet another bun fight is not relevant. ( i will take a current bun rather than plain )

You are one currant short of a bun.