Brexit negotiations

Mr D

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Name me a call centre who could deal with quoting fees, scheduling time, agreeing expenses, discussing creative aspects of an assignment and all the myriad things that need doing to build a personal rapport with the client.
You would be the last sort of person I'd want answering my phone!


And call centres are quite capable of taking messages. Of dealing with systems set up by clients to have certain call types dealt with.
You want to hand back a hire car? Procedures to follow. You want to schedule something? Procedures to follow.
You want to arrange an on site visit? Procedures to follow. You want to arrange a conference call with MD? Procedures to follow.
Been there done all that. One small call centre team of a half dozen night staff did all that for dozens of companies while doing our own work too.

You want to build a personal rapport with a client you get to do that yourself. Not every company wants that for all calls out of hours.
You do not mind if your competitors can act different than you and deal with customers outside your time zone?
 
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Scott-Copywriter

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You sure about that? My understanding is that it was definitely on the table for TTIP.

Healthcare is one of the (many) reasons why the TTIP is now pretty much dead in the water.

Perhaps it was mooted (like every sector would be), but it's faced heavy resistance from some of the major European nations.

The EU can afford to hold its own against the US. Can we? If things go pear-shaped with the EU, our only hope will be the US. Being bent over a barrel before we've even started is not a good omen.

EU trade will never be the same. If we don't offset that somehow, and quick, we're heading down a very rocky road.
 
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KM-Tiger

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What makes this situation even worse for the UK is that over 80% of our economy is based in services. These sectors rely on "live" communication far, far more than goods do.
They do and they don't, and with 21C communications it's less of a problem.

Many years ago I worked for a firm of consultants in the construction industry. Most of our projects were outside the UK, so much so that we won a Queen's Award for export.

So to say that one cannot export services because of time zone differences is simply not correct.
 
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Scott-Copywriter

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They do and they don't, and with 21C communications it's less of a problem.

Many years ago I worked for a firm of consultants in the construction industry. Most of our projects were outside the UK, so much so that we won a Queen's Award for export.

So to say that one cannot export services because of time zone differences is simply not correct.

I said nothing of the sort.

Of course you can export services to far-away time zones. It's just a LOT more difficult.

Perhaps that's why you won an award. People usually don't get those when they do something easy.
 
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KM-Tiger

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Scott-Copywriter

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But it's not that difficult.

One of the reasons why the City is so successful internationally is that we have the good fortune to have just enough time zone overlap to be able to service almost the entire world.

https://www.ft.com/content/e6ce88d8-cf28-11e5-831d-09f7778e7377

It's more difficult, though. And that's not good for the economy.

No one is saying that Brexit will cause the collapse of international trade. But when trade becomes more restricted, more expensive, more bureaucratic and more difficult as a whole, it's going to squeeze the economy.

We have to consider what we have now, and what we will have after we leave the EU. The UK economy has been built on decades of unfettered access to the single market. Thousands of businesses have been built on this infrastructure.

It's not necessarily how difficult it is on its own. It's how much more difficult it is by comparison. And when it comes to EU trade, we can enjoy an incredibly beneficial arrangement in pretty much every way.

The single market is designed to act like a single country. It's made in a way so it's almost as easy for a business in London to trade with a business in Germany just as easily as they would with one in Manchester.

Trade, communication, finance, time zones, banking, regulatory alignment, legal systems, no tariffs, no quotas, no carnets and 1-2 hour flights for £60 - we'll never get anywhere near close to replicating such a favourable business environment.
 
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Mr D

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Scott - true. I've purchased stock from EU businesses, delivered a few days later and no delays. Have used services from EU countries just as easily and cheap as UK services.
After we leave the EU we'll have whatever import taxes the government decides to charge. We'll have whatever customs delays - from experience of ordering from elsewhere that's likely to add a few days on to the order and a chunk on the cost.
The only upside I can think of is government getting more money in from imports which will help with deficit / austerity / spending / tax rises etc.
 
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Clinton

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    On top of that, we enjoy over 60+ trade agreements negotiated with the leverage of the world's second largest economy.
    You talk like as if that's always a good thing. The EU has negotiated some horrible agreements ... because they need to protect interests of so many EU countries and sectors - French farmers, Spanish fishermen etc. They didn't negotiate those agreements with British interests in mind! And in many cases these agreements are quite a drag on British businesses.
     
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    Scott-Copywriter

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    You talk like as if that's always a good thing. The EU has negotiated some horrible agreements ... because they need to protect interests of so many EU countries and sectors - French farmers, Spanish fishermen etc. They didn't negotiate those agreements with British interests in mind! And in many cases these agreements are quite a drag on British businesses.

    99.9% of the time, it is. There are very, very few trade situations where the free trade agreements are worse than default WTO rules.

    Are they as "tuned" as they would be if they were UK-centric? Probably not. But on the other hand, we don't have the leverage of a $16.5 trillion economy, second only to the United States.

    You just have to look at the China-Switzerland FTA to see what can happen in a David vs Goliath situation. Switzerland still have another decade to wait before some Chinese markets open up to them. China will also eliminate 84% of Swiss import tariffs, whereas Switzerland will eliminate 99.7% of Chinese import tariffs. Leverage matters.

    If we don't get what we want from the EU, I doubt we'll fare better with China or the US, either. Considering they make up over 60% of the global economy (and almost 65% of our exports), we may quickly find ourselves running out of places to turn when it comes to turnkey trade.
     
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    Clinton

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    99.9% of the time, it is.
    I wouldn't say 99.9%. Not even 90%. Or 50%. I could give examples of numerous crap deals - deals the EU has done that work to our disadvantage - but it's nearly 11 PM and I'm just settling down with a nice cuppa. But I'll leave you with an interesting read from Civitasthat I came across earlier today.

    Our analysis shows that if the UK leaves the EU without a trade deal UK exporters could face the potential impact of £5.2 billion in tariffs on goods being sold to the EU. However, EU exporters will also face £12.9 billion in tariffs on goods coming to the UK.

    Hopefully the EU is smarter than they've made out so far and realise who has the stronger bargaining position in Brexit talks. For too long their relatively large size (compared to the size of the UK economy) - and the number of countries on their side of the table - seems to have given many people the strange idea that the EU have a strong hand!
     
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    D

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    It's not necessarily how difficult it is on its own. It's how much more difficult it is by comparison. And when it comes to EU trade, we can enjoy an incredibly beneficial arrangement in pretty much every way.
    The Creative Industries are a major part of the British economy and contribute massively to our exports. Music, film, design, architecture, photography, software and more are all part of the mix. A TV commercial can cost hundreds of thousands and include music rights, actors, set builders etc and be almost as complex to set up as a feature film.

    At present these talents can do assignments in the EU without restriction, carnets or tariff problems. Its easy because the EU is on our doorstep. Trying to do assignments for clients in different time zones is another level of hassle. Its not like selling baked beans.

    For those ignorant of how individual assignments work, be it a TV commercial, album recording, or advertising photograph, I’ll explain what a photographer, who is often a one person business needs to communicate for a fairly typical shoot.

    Client phones and determines whether you are available in 2 weeks time for a one week shoot in Barcelona. He describes the layouts, 3 models, mother, father and child each photographed 2 ways, at night and in the morning.

    Photographer spends a day putting together a quotation including, freelance assistant, models, air fares, excess baggage charge, film and processing, hire of studio and lights, insurance, etc etc..

    First thing next morning photographer phones client with the quote, half an hour later the client phones back to confirm. They also have a discussing about casting.

    Another half an hour and the client phones back with his choice of model. She lives in Paris and will fly down for the day.

    Photographer phones model agency in Paris to agree her fee. Phones the client back.

    A short while later client phones and says his client wants to include an older couple in the campaign. That means another 4 shots and running over into the next week.

    Photographer re-jigs the quote which entails phoning the insurance company to add the extra days and costs.

    Photographer phones back and gives the client the revised quote.

    Client phones to discuss hairdresser and make up artist. Photographer agrees with client’s choice.

    The ad agency account exec meanwhile has been dealing with the money, how the expenses will be paid etc. Phones the photographer for agreement.

    Next day the client phones with a problem. The child will also be appearing in the tie-in TV commercial which involves sliding down a bannister. This child just cannot do it so another child needs to be found.

    Finally everything is decided. All the photographer has to do is confirm flights, models, assistant, do lighting tests and pack. (When outside the EU Carnets will need to be obtained. That requires a full list of every single item to be taken. Not only the cameras and lenses but every cable release, roll of background paper, roll of gaffer tape, reflectors etc etc.)

    Now consider Liam Fox’s plan to encourage us to export more to far off countries in different time zones. Imagine if, in the account above, every decision involved a night instead of just half hour turnarounds.
     
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    D

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    This exporting of such services already happens?
    Of course, big time. With all the expenses added on the money coming in to the country is considerable. The example I used was from an assignment I did for what was at the time Spain's second biggest, by advertising spend, in the country. I also do have real experience of working for Australian clients. Still photographers working in advertising are charging £4,000 to £10,000 a day.

    London is the European centre for TV commercials, special effects, photography, retouching, props hire, studio hire, models, and many more.

    (France is very nationalistic and have a quota for movies but through the EU allow British films to be considered French.)
     
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    Scott-Copywriter

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    This exporting of such services already happens?

    The point is that many companies and industries in the UK rely on a lot of their work being done in the EU with all the benefits that brings.

    When that becomes more expensive and difficult (due to leaving the single market), British businesses will lose trade.

    What some are arguing is that we'll be fine because these companies can branch out to countries outside of the EU to offset that loss of trade. In reality though, that's far easier said than done for the reasons mentioned previously.

    The further businesses try to branch out, the less competitive they will be for a whole host of reasons.

    And on top of that, businesses can't just click their fingers and magic up new clients half way across the world. It takes time and money with no guarantee of success.

    There's a good reason why far-away countries like Australia only have a few hundred million worth of annual trade with us despite very large economies and many cultural and linguistic similarities. It's just much harder and much more expensive compared to trading with countries closer to home.

    UK trade won't just collapse, but these marginal differences mean a lot when it comes to the wider economy. Snip even a few percent off each company on average and that turns into tens of billions of import/export losses and potentially a lot of jobs lost as well.
     
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    D

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    UK trade won't just collapse, but these marginal differences mean a lot when it comes to the wider economy. Snip even a few percent off each company on average and that turns into tens of billions of import/export losses and potentially a lot of jobs lost as well.
    The other real danger with the creative sector is that with London out of the EU other centres will develop their own rivals to ours and then they will be fighting for export orders too.
     
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    Willing to spend a few extra quid a week shopping at Tesco?
    For no extra goods of course.

    So if tesco paid a bit extra they would run out of billions if prices didnt rise ?

    I actually stopped shopping at tesco this year, or stopped deliveries, the food is always so short dated. There is an aldi five mins walk away which i always turned my nose up at , i went in there one day and was astounded how long dated the food is. Plus its cheaper :D Aldi pay better than tesco last i heard.
     
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    Mr D

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    So if tesco paid a bit extra they would run out of billions if prices didnt rise ?

    I actually stopped shopping at tesco this year, or stopped deliveries, the food is always so short dated. There is an aldi five mins walk away which i always turned my nose up at , i went in there one day and was astounded how long dated the food is. Plus its cheaper :D Aldi pay better than tesco last i heard.

    The money for the increased cost has to come from somewhere.
    Charging the buyers is the obvious way of covering increased costs. That's all the buyers, not just the ones who have had a pay rise, get to pay the increased costs. Can use some of the profits, decreasing the money due to the owners. Too much using the profits to cover increased costs means you have no profits, then what do you do to cover the increased costs?

    In your business how do you deal with increased costs?
     
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    DD03HroWsAE2CYF.jpg


    On the subject of minimum wage, look what the savage cuts by the wicked tories has done.

    The double whammy of the minimum wage and tax free allowance surely makes poorer people better off?

    Reminds me of the time i was picking up only 120 pounds a week and the labour t0ssers were stealing three pounds for national insurance.
     
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    The money for the increased cost has to come from somewhere.
    Charging the buyers is the obvious way of covering increased costs. That's all the buyers, not just the ones who have had a pay rise, get to pay the increased costs. Can use some of the profits, decreasing the money due to the owners. Too much using the profits to cover increased costs means you have no profits, then what do you do to cover the increased costs?

    In your business how do you deal with increased costs?

    They could sell their 50 million pound private jets like they did when the share price was halved.

    It's all large companies, they pay the bare minimum and make a fortune.

    There must be an imbalance somewhere, why else would so many people be eligible for welfare.

    Personally i don't wanna pay any more for food no, two quid for a mouthful of strawberries :eek:
     
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    Mr D

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    They pay NMW?
    Or they pay above NMW?

    People are eligible for welfare because the welfare is generous.

    So you do not want to pay extra for staff to be paid extra. Ok.
    Perhaps the staff can pay instead. Cut their hours or the total staff numbers by however much a week so the total wage bill is the same. They will be on 10 pounds an hour and everyone will be happy.
     
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    Scott-Copywriter

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    https://www.theguardian.com/comment...ens-veto-british-porposal-european-parliament

    One aspect of the UK's proposal I've never understood is the idea of agreeing an immigration cut-off date before Brexit itself.

    I never expected the EU to be remotely interested in this offer as it goes against a key principle of EU membership: that members enjoy the same benefits, and fulfil the same obligations, up until the day they are no longer a member.

    To me, it's simply not feasible that the UK could be an official member of the EU for another 1-2 years or more while retaining the right to free movement of goods, services and capital, but not people.

    If the EU came forward with the idea of restricting movement of one of the other four freedoms up to 1-2 years before the exit date, such as services or capital, I'm sure the UK Government would be very unhappy indeed.

    And what's the point of an earlier cut-off date? Some claim there will be a "surge" of people. So? If we had voted remain, there would have been at least another few decades of unrestricted movement. By comparison, allowing the same movement rights up until the date we leave, even if there is a "surge", will be a drop in the ocean.

    Furthermore, there is no evidence to even support that surge happening. In 2016, net migration into the UK declined sharply, with more people leaving and fewer people arriving compared to 2015.

    Maybe the citizens of the EU are looking at what's happening over here and turning down the opportunity because they don't feel welcome. And maybe, just maybe, there aren't that many EU citizens with established lives, families and friends who are prepared to suddenly kiss everyone goodbye and move abroad when they had no intention of doing so regardless of the referendum outcome.
     
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    quikshop

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    Furthermore, there is no evidence to even support that surge happening. In 2016, net migration into the UK declined sharply, with more people leaving and fewer people arriving compared to 2015.

    Lies, lies, damned lies and statistics. It's easy to cherry pick a point on a chart to support your point, but the trend is clear.

    The dip in 2016 has been attributed largely to EU8 citizens moving back to continental Europe... but let's be clear, the "dip" is still a net influx of over a quarter of a million people into the Country.
     
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    Scott-Copywriter

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    Lies, lies, damned lies and statistics. It's easy to cherry pick a point on a chart to support your point, but the trend is clear.

    The dip in 2016 has been attributed largely to EU8 citizens moving back to continental Europe... but let's be clear, the "dip" is still a net influx of over a quarter of a million people into the Country.

    You seem to have missed my point. The reason some people want to agree an earlier cut-off date for free movement is because they're worried about a surge of people trying to come in before the gates close, so to speak.

    A surge would imply net migration which is considerably larger than the current trend.

    Net migration has been gradually increasing over time, but that's been happening well before the idea of a referendum was even mooted. Now the referendum has happened, and we're on our way out, there is zero evidence of any kind of "surge". In fact, figures have declined.

    Using the statistics from the page you linked to, if we split non-EU and EU net migration, we find this:

    2015
    Non-EU net - 189,000
    EU net - 184,000

    2016
    Non-EU net - 175,000
    EU net - 133,000

    Non-EU net migration has declined by 7%, whereas EU net migration has declined by 27%. That's a sharp decline, is it not?

    Where's this supposed surge of people that requires us to provide a cut-off date up to 1-2 years before we actually leave?

    I find it interesting that many people don't distinguish between EU and non-EU migration, even though non-EU migration has always been higher (and in many cases significantly higher) throughout history. We've always had control over those numbers, but some seem to imply that leaving the EU will magically solve our immigration "woes".

    I've said it before, and I'll say it again: Brexit will result in a 20-25% decrease in net migration at the very most.

    And here's another curveball: a key part of pretty much every free trade agreement is relaxed visa rules. That's one of the main reasons why the EU-India FTA has stalled, as India wants more of its skilled workers to be allowed to work in the EU which is the EU is not prepared to accept.

    All those free trade agreements we're supposedly going to negotiate with the rest of the world will have this element. The US, Saudi Arabia, Turkey, China, Japan, South Korea and many other nations will expect labour visa concessions.

    There is every possibility that we could find total net migration post-Brexit going even higher, not lower.
     
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    Mr D

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    We'll need the immigrants. For the jobs the Brits will not do and the EU workers won't come for.

    Yes, people seem confused between UN agreements (such as regarding migrants) and EU freedom of movement. One we will have regardless of the EU and the other we will have a limited ability to control.
     
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    D

    Deleted member 59730

    The money for the increased cost has to come from somewhere.
    Charging the buyers is the obvious way of covering increased costs.
    What doesn't get talked about much is the amount of pressure the supermarkets have put on suppliers since the pound fell. That is all suppliers, not just overseas ones. The system is creaking along for now but will increasingly show cracks.

    There is talk of a butter shortage. If the supermarkets hadn't hammered dairy farmers for years they wouldn't have stopped. I knew a dairy farmer whose earnings were £75,000 a year which doesn't seem bad until you factor in the £1million investment that entailed and working all hours 7 days a week. In a couple of years, because of lower returns on milk his earnings dropped to £4,000. On a day he had a visit from his bank manager he waited until his wife was out for the evening and committed suicide. That's the real price of your cheap supermarket food.

    http://www.fwi.co.uk/farm-life/suicide-investigating-a-farming-taboo.htm
     
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    Mr D

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    What doesn't get talked about much is the amount of pressure the supermarkets have put on suppliers since the pound fell. That is all suppliers, not just overseas ones. The system is creaking along for now but will increasingly show cracks.

    There is talk of a butter shortage. If the supermarkets hadn't hammered dairy farmers for years they wouldn't have stopped. I knew a dairy farmer whose earnings were £75,000 a year which doesn't seem bad until you factor in the £1million investment that entailed and working all hours 7 days a week. In a couple of years, because of lower returns on milk his earnings dropped to £4,000. On a day he had a visit from his bank manager he waited until his wife was out for the evening and committed suicide. That's the real price of your cheap supermarket food.

    http://www.fwi.co.uk/farm-life/suicide-investigating-a-farming-taboo.htm


    Yes its the real price of a business that goes on and on when its time to close, the real price of a business that refuses to change, the real price of a business that does not diversify.
    Farmers have been complaining of prices longer than I've been alive.

    This butter shortage - some farmers changed their method of operation / got out of the farming business causing the reduction in supply? Would you say that is a bad thing?
     
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    D

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    Yes its the real price of a business that goes on and on when its time to close, the real price of a business that refuses to change, the real price of a business that does not diversify.
    Yeah, that catch all word "diversify". Tell me how a dairy farmer can diversify on 500 acres. Whatever he does he still has one major stumbling block. He cannot get away from the supermarkets who will screw him on prices.
     
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    Mr D

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    Yeah, that catch all word "diversify". Tell me how a dairy farmer can diversify on 500 acres. Whatever he does he still has one major stumbling block. He cannot get away from the supermarkets who will screw him on prices.

    Sell part of the land, create workshops for small businesses, run a farm shop, add different types of farming, deal with different buyers.
    All things I have seen happen on farms over the past 40 years.

    The supermarkets do not run the farms. They are just a big buyer of produce. You can have a big buyer in your business? Do they run your business or can you move away from having that relationship to a more diverse one?
     
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    Scott-Copywriter

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    Sell part of the land, create workshops for small businesses, run a farm shop, add different types of farming, deal with different buyers.
    All things I have seen happen on farms over the past 40 years.

    The supermarkets do not run the farms. They are just a big buyer of produce. You can have a big buyer in your business? Do they run your business or can you move away from having that relationship to a more diverse one?

    They may as well run the farms.

    What you've suggested may work in some sectors, but not others. Farming is particularly sensitive because there are very few customers capable of buying massive volume. If a farm produces thousands of tons of potatoes, vegetables, fruit, beef, pork and so on, the only customers realistically capable of buying all of it are the major supermarkets.

    Volume is just as important as price. Make 20% more per unit, but sell 20% fewer units, and you're back to square one.

    Nothing you've suggested would even come close to offsetting that, perhaps with the exception of legalised cannabis farming, which is obviously a non-starter.
     
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    The Creative Industries are a major part of the British economy and contribute massively to our exports. Music, film, design, architecture, photography, software and more are all part of the mix. A TV commercial can cost hundreds of thousands and include music rights, actors, set builders etc and be almost as complex to set up as a feature film.

    In fact UK creatives are taking ad money from Germany, much to the annoyance of the Düsseldorf advertising industry!

    As for film, it is today a completely pan-European activity. A US producer like Disney, Abraham or Kennedy-Marshal use London as their centre point for a whole range of work on a single film, right across the EU. A very typical set-up would be studio and green-screen work at Pinewood, location work in Roumania and Hungary, big set work at Cinecittà in Italy, CGI in London. Then for the score, sound design and dialog recordings, they approach an agency, who commission orchestra tracking in Bratislava, additional tracking at Abbey or Air, mixing at London's 'Strongroom', sound design, dubbing and Foleys at one of the specialist small studios at Pinewood, with film editing and finishing both done back in Hollywood.

    The equipment and practical FX will all be rented in London and Italy and shipped around Europe.

    That level of international cooperation and integration only became possible with the advent of the single market and the customs union.
     
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    Gecko001

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    Sell part of the land, create workshops for small businesses, run a farm shop, add different types of farming, deal with different buyers.
    All things I have seen happen on farms over the past 40 years.

    The supermarkets do not run the farms. They are just a big buyer of produce. You can have a big buyer in your business? Do they run your business or can you move away from having that relationship to a more diverse one?

    UK has always been a nett importer of food and because of the low value of the pound at present imported food prices are going up. Now that farmers allege that they cannot get workers because of Brexit, no doubt home-grown food will increase in price as well, if it hasn't done so already. My local Tesco's cheapest potatoes have gone up 12% recently. Soon we will have people boasting over a nice bottle of Chardonnay that they grow all their own vegetables, not because they are organic or fresher, but because they cannot afford to buy them in the shops.
     
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    Mr D

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    UK has always been a nett importer of food and because of the low value of the pound at present imported food prices are going up. Now that farmers allege that they cannot get workers because of Brexit, no doubt home-grown food will increase in price as well, if it hasn't done so already. My local Tesco's cheapest potatoes have gone up 12% recently. Soon we will have people boasting over a nice bottle of Chardonnay that they grow all their own vegetables, not because they are organic or fresher, but because they cannot afford to buy them in the shops.

    Or cut out particular vegetables.
    Morrisons used to do a 12p tin of potatoes, its 20p last time I purchased one.
     
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    Mr D

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    They may as well run the farms.

    What you've suggested may work in some sectors, but not others. Farming is particularly sensitive because there are very few customers capable of buying massive volume. If a farm produces thousands of tons of potatoes, vegetables, fruit, beef, pork and so on, the only customers realistically capable of buying all of it are the major supermarkets.

    Volume is just as important as price. Make 20% more per unit, but sell 20% fewer units, and you're back to square one.

    Nothing you've suggested would even come close to offsetting that, perhaps with the exception of legalised cannabis farming, which is obviously a non-starter.

    And yet some farmers have indeed changed their method of earning money.
    I used to visit a local farm that built some workshops for crafts and had an on site shop. One of the units became free and we looked at it.
    At a very rough guess the farmer was receiving over £30k in rent per year. All for a few buildings next to his front yard.

    There was some farmer down south, somewhere in Somerset, who started using some land for a festival. Was he wrong to do that rather than simply use the land for farming? Glastonbury I believe its called as a festival.

    Have a look at the farmland near you. Do the farmers solely all do farming or do they have other sources of income, other projects, other businesses on site?

    As for buyers, there are at least a couple of businesses set up by farmers as a group, a co-op type business to buy products.
     
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    Scott-Copywriter

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    UK has always been a nett importer of food and because of the low value of the pound at present imported food prices are going up. Now that farmers allege that they cannot get workers because of Brexit, no doubt home-grown food will increase in price as well, if it hasn't done so already. My local Tesco's cheapest potatoes have gone up 12% recently. Soon we will have people boasting over a nice bottle of Chardonnay that they grow all their own vegetables, not because they are organic or fresher, but because they cannot afford to buy them in the shops.

    Don't forget the EU farming subsidies.

    Informa Argibusiness has estimated that a loss of all EU-funded subsidies would result in 90% of UK farms folding. There are a LOT of farms which rely on subsidies to survive.

    The Government has claimed it will match them up to 2020, but given that the Tories are a fiscally conservative, free market bunch that have allowed unprofitable sectors to collapse in the past, I wouldn't hold out much hope of them delivering the same level of support long-term.

    Some might say we can trade with the world, but that's a lot easier said than done. Many countries, particularly those on the American continent, have very different food quality standards.

    With increased food import prices, EU tariffs, EU quotas, customs checks, no EU migrant labour and no EU subsidies, it's no exaggeration to say that food prices could double, and/or most UK farms could collapse.
     
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    Deleted member 59730

    "This is a list of supermarket chains in the United Kingdom. Grocery sales in the UK are dominated by Tesco, Asda, Sainsbury's and Morrisons. These, dubbed the 'big four', had a combined market share of 73.2% of the UK grocery market in the 12 weeks ending 4 January 2015."

    I happen to be a director of a property company managing a set of rural workshops. Building more in a rural area is not financially viable because there are not enough local businesses. Imagine if 20 local farmers did it.

    Many Cornish farmers have given up dairy and now lease land to vegetable growers owned by packing stations. The supermarkets are screwing them on price also which is why they can no longer pay locals decent rates. The organisation of the workers is in the hands of Russian and Ukrainian gangmasters.

    I don't blame the farmers. When the supermarkets buy bunches of daffodils for 6p and sell them for £1.99 you might guess that the world of Tesco is not a benign place donating their profits to charity.
     
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