Brexit negotiations

[Deleted member 59730]

As for buyers, there are at least a couple of businesses set up by farmers as a group, a co-op type business to buy products.

You seem to have a benign view of everything. Look at the buying coops set up by farmers for milk. They ended up owning the company that reduced the price per litre to unprofitable levels.

 

[Deleted member 59730]

In fact UK creatives are taking ad money from Germany, much to the annoyance of the Düsseldorf advertising industry!

I've done assignments for German clients when I had my London studio. It was certainly a lot easier when we joined the EU.

A photographer friend had an assignment to shoot in Germany before we were in the EU. He hired a van and some of the specialised lighting equipment. His route took him through Holland who insisted that his Carnet was not properly filled in. They impounded the van and all the contents. To cut a long story short he ended up having to re-jig the shoot. He did the shoot in my studio. He lost his business in the ensuing debt which, in todays money was £242,684.76.

 

[Scott-Copywriter]

And yet some farmers have indeed changed their method of earning money.
I used to visit a local farm that built some workshops for crafts and had an on site shop. One of the units became free and we looked at it.
At a very rough guess the farmer was receiving over £30k in rent per year. All for a few buildings next to his front yard.

There was some farmer down south, somewhere in Somerset, who started using some land for a festival. Was he wrong to do that rather than simply use the land for farming? Glastonbury I believe its called as a festival.

Have a look at the farmland near you. Do the farmers solely all do farming or do they have other sources of income, other projects, other businesses on site?

As for buyers, there are at least a couple of businesses set up by farmers as a group, a co-op type business to buy products.

You do realise that many farms rely on EU subsidies to survive, right?

Again, your ideas only apply to some situations and not others. If a farm is right out in the middle of nowhere, how many people are really going to be interested in using it for a business?

And what if farmers don't have buildings available for shops or businesses? How does a cash-strapped farmer find the money to build them?

You have to ask yourself this: if these methods of diversifying were so lucrative and easy, why hasn't every farmer done it already? Why do they deal with being squeezed by supermarkets and barely getting by?

Because, for most farms, it's nowhere near as lucrative or easy as you claim.

Now some might say that unprofitable businesses should be allowed to fail. But this is food we're talking about. If prices skyrocket, it hits every person in the country - particularly the poorest.

Then we may see a shift away from fruit and veg towards unhealthier diets, which, in the long-term, causes more public health problems and puts even more demand on the NHS.

A few farm shops and some business units will not solve these issues for the British farming industry and the wider implications for the UK.

 

[KM-Tiger]

Some might say we can trade with the world, but that's a lot easier said than done.

It is indeed. As Emily Thornberry remarked, we would not be able to buy food from Australia or New Zealand as it would all go off before it reached us.

 

[Mr D]

"This is a list of supermarket chains in the United Kingdom. Grocery sales in the UK are dominated by Tesco, Asda, Sainsbury's and Morrisons. These, dubbed the 'big four', had a combined market share of 73.2% of the UK grocery market in the 12 weeks ending 4 January 2015."

I happen to be a director of a property company managing a set of rural workshops. Building more in a rural area is not financially viable because there are not enough local businesses. Imagine if 20 local farmers did it.

Many Cornish farmers have given up dairy and now lease land to vegetable growers owned by packing stations. The supermarkets are screwing them on price also which is why they can no longer pay locals decent rates. The organisation of the workers is in the hands of Russian and Ukrainian gangmasters.

I don't blame the farmers. When the supermarkets buy bunches of daffodils for 6p and sell them for £1.99 you might guess that the world of Tesco is not a benign place donating their profits to charity.

So you agree that some dairy farmers have diversified away from dairy.
Leasing land.

Whoever suggested Tesco is a benign place donating their profits to charity?
I think you need to look for a non profit organisation for such things. Tesco is a business out to make money.
Gosh, that's just like a bunch of the people on these forums. Does that include you?

 

[Deleted member 59730]

It is indeed. As Emily Thornberry remarked, we would not be able to buy food from Australia or New Zealand as it would all go off before it reached us.

Indeed. I happen to have a cousin who will be trying to increase sales of Australian wine to the UK after Brexit. His answer to fresh food going off is for Australia to do more of what is called "value added". That means processing the food into tins, freezer packs etc. That will more jobs we will be exporting.

 

[Mr D]

You do realise that many farms rely on EU subsidies to survive, right?

Again, your ideas only apply to some situations and not others. If a farm is right out in the middle of nowhere, how many people are really going to be interested in using it for a business?

And what if farmers don't have buildings available for shops or businesses? How does a cash-strapped farmer find the money to build them?

You have to ask yourself this: if these methods of diversifying were so lucrative and easy, why hasn't every farmer done it already? Why do they deal with being squeezed by supermarkets and barely getting by?

Because, for most farms, it's nowhere near as lucrative or easy as you claim.

Now some might say that unprofitable businesses should be allowed to fail. But this is food we're talking about. If prices skyrocket, it hits every person in the country - particularly the poorest.

Then we may see a shift away from fruit and veg towards unhealthier diets, which, in the long-term, causes more public health problems and puts even more demand on the NHS.

A few farm shops and some business units will not solve these issues for the British farming industry and the wider implications for the UK.

Some farms have made changes.
No one solution can suit every situation. The farmer on a remote island and the farmer right outside a big city will have very different options available.

As for unprofitable businesses - how much should farms be subsidised?
If we can import fruit, veg and meat already then is there any need to subsidise local farmers in particular over say steel industry, coal industry, gas industry, car industry, hotel industry, building industry and so on?

 

[Deleted member 59730]

Whoever suggested Tesco is a benign place donating their profits to charity?

You did!

 

[Mr D]

Indeed. I happen to have a cousin who will be trying to increase sales of Australian wine to the UK after Brexit. His answer to fresh food going off is for Australia to do more of what is called "value added". That means processing the food into tins, freezer packs etc. That will more jobs we will be exporting.

If they can do the work then why should the jobs not be exported?
If can do the work here as cheap then do it here, otherwise you pay a premium simply to have something done here.

 

[Mr D]

You did!

Really?
You'll be able to reference the post then.

 

[Mr D]

It is indeed. As Emily Thornberry remarked, we would not be able to buy food from Australia or New Zealand as it would all go off before it reached us.

Does the food we already buy from there go off before it reaches us?

 

[The Byre]

Don't you people have any work to do?

 

[KM-Tiger]

His answer to fresh food going off is for Australia to do more of what is called "value added". That means processing the food into tins, freezer packs etc. That will more jobs we will be exporting.

Yes and no, it would depend on the pricing.

Before we joined the Common Market much food came from Australasia, particularly New Zealand. I was brought up on New Zealand cheese, butter, and lamb. It was plentiful and cheap.

 

[KM-Tiger]

Don't you people have any work to do?

Yes, but I thought I had better keep lookout for the plague of locusts that is sure to arrive soon.

 

[Mr D]

Yes, but I thought I had better keep lookout for the plague of locusts that is sure to arrive soon.

Darn, should have got some honey for sale.
Will gooseberry jam do?

 

[Mr D]

Don't you people have any work to do?

I am working. Drafting a reply, in Russian, to a Russian lawyer that doesn't call him a crook and cheat.

 

[Deleted member 59730]

Really?
You'll be able to reference the post then.

Just one of your many posts a few days ago in which you focused on Tesco's charity.

Our performance
Amount and percentage of pre-tax profits donated to charities and good causes
£ (million) %
2016/17 37 2.89
2015/16 34 3.61
2014/15 37 3.96


https://www.tescoplc.com/tesco-and-society/supporting-local-communities/

 

[KM-Tiger]

Will gooseberry jam do?

Only if it is made to EU Directive 2001/113/EC of 20 December 2001.

 

[Mr D]

Just one of your many posts a few days ago in which you focused on Tesco's charity.

Our performance
Amount and percentage of pre-tax profits donated to charities and good causes
£ (million) %
2016/17 37 2.89
2015/16 34 3.61
2014/15 37 3.96


https://www.tescoplc.com/tesco-and-society/supporting-local-communities/

You focused on Tesco and I responded showing their donation as a company to charity. As you can see from the figures that's under 4% of their profit to charity. 4% is not them donating their profits to charity, its donating 4% of their profits to charity.

Now where is your quote again?
"you might guess that the world of Tesco is not a benign place donating their profits to charity."

You want to revisit as to who suggested they donate their profits to charity? Perhaps you have me confused with someone else.

 

[Mr D]

Only if it is made to EU Directive 2001/113/EC of 20 December 2001.

Its made to jam recipe book photocopy from 1870 with amendments 1930.

 

[Scott-Copywriter]

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-40571123

It's quickly becoming clear that May, Johnson, Davis and Hammond all have different opinions of what they want and what they think will happen.

"There is no plan for no deal because we are going to get a great deal." is completely at odds with everything May and Davis have said up to this point.

I'm not sure how 27 different countries are appearing more unified than the cabinet of a one-party government in a single country, but there you have it.

 

[Mr D]

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-40571123

It's quickly becoming clear that May, Johnson, Davis and Hammond all have different opinions of what they want and what they think will happen.

"There is no plan for no deal because we are going to get a great deal." is completely at odds with everything May and Davis have said up to this point.

I'm not sure how 27 different countries are appearing more unified than the cabinet of a one-party government in a single country, but there you have it.

Because it's our media reporting it.
Do we really care if minor government officials in some distant EU country disagree with each other over the negotiations?
Do the local media in other countries report on their politicians in the same way in local news there?

 

[Clinton]

I'm going to start linking to all the good news stories, the UK business success stories the BBC avoids running, the stories that demonstrate strong global confidence in the UK economy no matter what deal (or no deal) we get on Brexit...

Today's News: UK Tech shrugs off Brexit.

And London retained its tech crown ahead of rival cities in Europe, fresh figures from London & Partners and Pitchbook reveal.

Capex is high, inward investment flow is high, and according to a blog post I made recently UK companies are bracing for hot M&A activity. This is all despite businesses not having the vaguest idea how Brexit is going to pan out!

 

[The Byre]

They are coming here anyway, because they don't think that this government is able to make it happen!

 

[KM-Tiger]

I'm not sure how 27 different countries are appearing more unified

They are not unified. See what's going on with immigrant quotas.

 

[Mr D]

They are coming here anyway, because they don't think that this government is able to make it happen!

Or the next government or the one after that?

 

[The Byre]

We have two Labour Parties, three Conservative Parties, one hung parliament, Scotland divided and Northern Ireland looking like one of the more extreme scenes from 'Gangs of New York' and you envisage yet more confusion?

I'm just waiting for Scunthorpe to declare UDI and seek an alliance with Cleethorpes and Grimsby.

 

[Deleted member 59730]

"Today's News: UK Tech shrugs off Brexit." which had this to say, "the Brexit vote had not deterred investors considering the international ambitions of the business. But he raised concerns, as have others, over the sectors ability to attract talent." and "The real risk to London is that if we don’t come up with good settlement on human capital it [the UK] could become a bad place to run a business," he said.

 

[Clinton]

Today's news: This German company is on massive expansion spree to create 4,000 new jobs in the UK.

 

[Mr D]

Is Aldi having growth in the UK a good thing or a bad thing? Are they expecting us to be worse off so switching from the other supermarkets to them?

 

[Deleted member 59730]

News: This German company is on massive expansion spree to create 4,000 new jobs in the UK.

Because their margin on the higher prices which Brexit is making happen will increase their profits.

And now for the bad news links.

http://www.independent.co.uk/News/b...ss-confidence-investment-growth-a7834081.html

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...paign-director-dominic-cummings-a7833351.html

http://www.independent.co.uk/News/b...t-eu-workers-skills-shortage-uk-a7833091.html

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...heresa-may-g20-andrew-marr-show-a7831621.html

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...ect-single-market-trade-deal-uk-a7831401.html

 

[Clinton]

LOL, you can't take the Independent seriously. They are almost as bad as the Guardian and try to spin everything as a Brexit bad news story. Someone calls someone else a moron and you post a link to a whole anti-Brexit story the i has managed to create around that tweet!

Anyway, moving on, more good news: London Borough Votes To Take Back Control From Sadiq Khan’s ‘Mini EU’

 

[The Byre]

I think I'll set up a company importing locusts!

 

[Deleted member 59730]

LOL, you can't take the Independent seriously. They are almost as bad as the Guardian and try to spin everything as a Brexit bad news story. Someone calls someone else a moron and you post a link to a whole anti-Brexit story the i has managed to create around that tweet!

Anyway, moving on, more good news: London Borough Votes To Take Back Control From Sadiq Khan’s ‘Mini EU’

At least the Independent is based in London and not Los Angeles and are more likely to have their ear to the ground in the UK. The Guardian is the only quality newspaper left.

Your link to a story about the Mayor of London I'd call very bad news and a sign of the unpleasant attitudes the referendum brought.

 

[The Byre]

The Guardian is the only quality newspaper left.

What about the Beano?

I liked the issue in which Lord Snooty called a referendum and Desperate Dan forgot to vote!

 

[Mr D]

At least the Independent is based in London and not Los Angeles and are more likely to have their ear to the ground in the UK. The Guardian is the only quality newspaper left. .

Thanks, you made me laugh.

 

[Deleted member 59730]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-40571123
How will it help doing trade deals with other countries when the UK gains a reputation for not paying their bills?

 

[KM-Tiger]

What bill? The Guardian thinks there isn't one:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/mar/04/uk-could-quit-eu-without-paying-a-penny-say-lords

 

[Scott-Copywriter]

What bill? The Guardian thinks there isn't one:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/mar/04/uk-could-quit-eu-without-paying-a-penny-say-lords

Technically they are correct.

Article 50 is very sparse. Beyond that, there's very little codified in the EU constitution which legally obliges anything specific.

But it's like splitting a bill between friends at a restaurant. You may not be legally required to do so, but you have a responsibility nonetheless.

When we look at the motives behind the bill, we find this in the same article:

This covers the UK’s share of EU civil staff pensions, unpaid bills and decommissioning nuclear power plants.

Barnier is expecting the UK to pay into the EU budget in 2019 and 2020, putting the UK on the hook for payments worth £12.4bn, agreed by Cameron in 2013.

The EU’s €1tn, seven-year budget was negotiated in late 2013 by EU leaders including the British prime minister. It is due to expire at the end of 2020, although bills may be trickling in until 2023. This reflects that payments for EU-funded infrastructure projects, such as roads or airports, are not settled until two to three years after being promised.

This seems fair, does it not? If some payments are made in arrears for certain obligations, we can't expect financial contributions to stop the day we leave.

There will be payments for 2017, 18 and 19, while we're still part of the EU, that we aren't due to pay until 2020 and beyond. We chose to leave, so it's not the EU's problem that we won't be around to benefit from them.

I hope, for our own sake, that we don't try to worm our way out of it on the basis of treaty small print.

 

[Clinton]

I hope, for our own sake, that we don't try to worm our way out of it on the basis of treaty small print.

Er, if the EU tries to "punish" us then surely we should use all the small print we can get our hands on, no?