Brexit negotiations

Discussion in 'Time Out' started by Scott-Copywriter, Jun 19, 2017.

  1. Scott-Copywriter

    Scott-Copywriter UKBF Legend Full Member - Verified Business

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    Last edited: Jun 19, 2017
    Posted: Jun 19, 2017 By: Scott-Copywriter Member since: May 10, 2006
  2. Clinton

    Clinton UKBF Big Shot Free Member

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    There's one thing we can be sure of, newspapers like the Guardian and the Independent will try and spin every bit of news as a defeat for the UK. They are adamant that we shouldn't be leaving the EU and haven't gotten it through their thick heads that the Referendum is over. Especially the Guardian.

    So they spin, spin, spin in the vain hope that the country is finally going to realise their "mistake" and choose to Remain. The Guardian's take today is that the UK has "caved in".

    The Telegraph's take on the first day's talks is that both sides have ruled out a soft Brexit. There is normal coverage in several other papers including here at the Bild whose main point seems to be that a fair deal is possible.

    But the Independent's angle, of course, is that we're losing already!

    Ditch the i and the Guardian, they are raving lunatics when it comes to EU coverage and are guaranteed to make you depressed even if there is some fantastic good news in the negotiations and Britain wins the most unexpected concessions - they'll find some way to present that as a big win for the EU and a big loss for the UK.
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2017
    Posted: Jun 19, 2017 By: Clinton Member since: Jan 17, 2010
  3. Mr D

    Mr D UKBF Legend Free Member

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    The media want you to pay attention so they tell a story. They cater to their customers and hope to attract new ones.

    I have been in company negotiations multiple times, the only thing, repeat the ONLY THING that matters is the agreement made and signed. Everything else said, inferred, put forwards, withdrawn, altered or given away is not the end result.
    Is international diplomacy any different? My limited reading of historical diplomacy does not suggest it is.

    If we left it up to the media we get everything we want while at the same time give away everything we stand for and accept a subservient role in world affairs.
    Posted: Jun 20, 2017 By: Mr D Member since: Feb 12, 2017
  4. KM-Tiger

    KM-Tiger UKBF Legend Full Member - Verified Business

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    The good news is that the process has (at last!) begun.

    I suspect it will be weeks before there will be anything substantive to discuss.
    Posted: Jun 20, 2017 By: KM-Tiger Member since: Aug 10, 2003
  5. quikshop

    quikshop UKBF Big Shot Free Member

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    I couldn't agree more Clinton, I even made this very point on the Guardian website in response to an article describing the UKs humiliation on day one. Its such a shame, the Guardian is blessed with some great journalists but their anti-UK bias is hard to read.

    The Independents fall from grace was complete years ago. It was for the first few years of launch a very good and genuinely neutral rag, its website-only these days full of anti-UK and hard left opinion writing based on speculation... I class it in the same basket as The Express.

    Interestingly CNN has started re-publishing Independent articles which is a reflection of how far left that outlet has become. Probably a reaction to how far right Fox News is.
    Posted: Jun 20, 2017 By: quikshop Member since: Oct 11, 2006
  6. atmosbob

    atmosbob UKBF Ace Free Member

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    Even if there is fantastic news with amazing concessions leaving the EU will always be the biggest mistake that a UK government has inflicted on its people. Reading a different set of lies from your chosen media will not alter that.
    Posted: Jun 20, 2017 By: atmosbob Member since: Oct 26, 2009
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  7. quikshop

    quikshop UKBF Big Shot Free Member

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    The UK population decided, not the Government ;)

    Democracy has always been an anathema to socialists and hard left liberals everywhere, you only have to look at Venezuela for your leftist paradise. It is the voice of the people, the highest vote since Thatcher for a Tory Government despite all the pain it's inflicting across society, tells you everything you need to know about what the people thing of the EU and its communist routes.
    Posted: Jun 20, 2017 By: quikshop Member since: Oct 11, 2006
  8. Gecko001

    Gecko001 UKBF Enthusiast Free Member

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    The EU 27 member states will be driving this process. It is their club we are leaving it. When our politicians accept this maybe there will be a good outcome the UK. I wonder when the penny will drop.
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2017
    Posted: Jun 20, 2017 By: Gecko001 Member since: Apr 21, 2011
  9. atmosbob

    atmosbob UKBF Ace Free Member

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    The Tory party decided to hold a referendum. The right wing of the Tory party drove a wedge through UK society to appease the right wing bigot Farage.

    If the UK population were left to decide without the divisive rabble rousers we would never have even had a referendum to start with.
    Posted: Jun 20, 2017 By: atmosbob Member since: Oct 26, 2009
  10. Scott-Copywriter

    Scott-Copywriter UKBF Legend Full Member - Verified Business

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    In this case though, it's true.

    I've read every newspaper and watched the press conference. The words, tonality and actions, even at this early stage, say a lot.

    What happened to the "row of the summer"?

    Perhaps he's right. But the fact remains that a trade agreement will now be on the back burner until there is sufficient progress in other areas.

    It's exactly what the EU wanted, and exactly what the Davis said he would have a huge row over.

    Don't get me wrong here. I actually think it's the right approach. As Barnier said himself, the UK decided to leave the EU - not the other way around. It's entirely reasonable to expect the ball to be in the EU's court on many matters.

    But it just shows, which I think many know already, that this aggressive rhetoric is a load of nonsense. How they are in front of the British press, and how they will be sat round the negotiating table, is going to be very different.

    The pretence is embarrassing. And if certain media publications do attack the routine negotiation updates, it's going to be the Government's own fault. The only reason there is something to ridicule is because Davis set the stage for it with his macho remarks.
    Posted: Jun 20, 2017 By: Scott-Copywriter Member since: May 10, 2006
  11. Paul Norman

    Paul Norman UKBF Ace Free Member

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    Day one is complete.

    The process of actually exiting has begun. At least it is reported to have begun.

    And the gist of it is that already we have agreed to, potentially, pay the exit penalties in principle, although an amount has yet to be finally calculated.

    Border issues have been conceded as a negotiating stance.

    Trade talks have not yet begun.

    Of course, we only have sketchy headlines. I wonder if this is the strong, dominant, we hold the cards negotiation exit voters were expecting. To me it feels is starting to sound a little like a capitulation.
    Posted: Jun 20, 2017 By: Paul Norman Member since: Apr 8, 2010
  12. Kat Haylock

    Kat Haylock Community Editor Administrator

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    I've merged the two new Brexit threads and will now leave you all to it for the next eighteen months! :D
    Posted: Jun 20, 2017 By: Kat Haylock Member since: Jul 11, 2016
  13. STDFR33

    STDFR33 UKBF Big Shot Free Member

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    After each Brexit meeting, each party will come out and proclaim a win.

    It has been just one day. There are no winners or losers at this stage.

    Until we see the finer details of when certain issues are in the penultimate stages of negotiation, then we will no how the negotiations are going for us. We will finally know when those issues are rubber stamped.

    All we have at this stage is fluff.
    Posted: Jun 20, 2017 By: STDFR33 Member since: Aug 7, 2016
  14. STDFR33

    STDFR33 UKBF Big Shot Free Member

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    Just one place to hear 'right wing bigots' and 'raving loony lefties'. This place will be a bloodbath within 5 pages ;-)
    Posted: Jun 20, 2017 By: STDFR33 Member since: Aug 7, 2016
  15. The Byre

    The Byre UKBF Ace Free Member

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    Here are some sobering facts some of you may wish to cogitate over -

    1. The referendum has advisory (i.e. political) status only. As I stated elsewhere, there is reason to believe that parliament has not (yet!) stated clearly that it wishes to leave the EU.

    2. Paper-Island is diminishing rapidly. With Paper-Island, I mean Guardian, Mail, Times, etc. and I am including their various websites. Social media is reaching out to the young and the young are very naturally moving up through the ranks of the population as the old die off, or just forget who they are and why they came into this damn room in the first place.

    3. As for @Clinton's report of articles in that great German institution 'Bild Zeitung', I cannot find a single German or French newspaper that has the Brexit talks anywhere in their news sections today. The notorious tabloid 'Bild' - the only 'British stories they are carrying, are the further reports of Grenfell Tower 'heroes' (pictures of sexy female fire fighters) stories about the Mosque attack (pictures of sexy female Muslim girls) and stories about British binge-drinking in Majorca (video footage of naked English girls wandering the streets).

    So if Theresa wants to get her message across to the German people via Bild Zeitung, she is going to have to get those mammary glands out. That, after all, is what Bild is there for! (The German people have a right to have a butcher's!)

    So we must assume that the rest of Europe is so enthralled by the whole subject of Brexit, that they cannot even talk about it. Either that, or they really couldn't give a f**k!
    Posted: Jun 20, 2017 By: The Byre Member since: Aug 13, 2013
  16. Cobby

    Cobby UKBF Ace Free Member

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    Left of centre newspapers: "Raving lunatics".
    Right of centre newspapers: "Normal coverage".

    Hardly a convincing way to spread 'advice'.
    Posted: Jun 21, 2017 By: Cobby Member since: Oct 28, 2009
  17. Cobby

    Cobby UKBF Ace Free Member

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    What's hard to read is this Fall-In-Line-Or-You're-A-Traitor rhetoric. Enemies of the people. The UK is divided on Brexit, with recent polls showing a swing for Remain so even the ~3% margin is moot at this point. Half the country being against a course of action is not 'anti-UK' simply because the side supporting the government happen to disagree with it.
    Posted: Jun 21, 2017 By: Cobby Member since: Oct 28, 2009
  18. Cobby

    Cobby UKBF Ace Free Member

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    If you're referring to last year's referendum, what you mean to say is "The UK population decided again, only this time differently." Given the current polling if we were to decide *again*, we'd change our minds *again*. Seems like it'd be sensible to expect a large majority in that decision if we, as a nation, wish to take such a divisive and damaging course of action... ;)

    Cool, in one paragraph you conflated liberalism, socialism, communism, and authoritarianism, and then applied it all to the EU, and you even smoothly glossed over the broken First-Past-The-Post system to imply that the country is far more in favour of the current Conservative government than they actually are.

    You did at least drop a fact in there about voting numbers, so it's not all bad. :D
    Posted: Jun 21, 2017 By: Cobby Member since: Oct 28, 2009
  19. quikshop

    quikshop UKBF Big Shot Free Member

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    Simplistic and selective. The Tory party committed to a referendum to head off the UKIP challenge, and that only came about because the fabric of British society has been changed at pace without any say by the populous, and they had started to express their discontent in the polls... you know, that pesky democracy thing that socialists so love to hate.

    You conveniently forget that Labour was the first to promise a referendum then weaseled their way out of it by convincing the EU to change the word 'Constitution' to 'Treaty'.

    I read on the other thread either you or Cobby described all wealthy people as sub-human; that kind of mindless bigotry is every bit as hateful as some of the less pleasant aspects of UKIP.
    Posted: Jun 21, 2017 By: quikshop Member since: Oct 11, 2006
  20. Newchodge

    Newchodge UKBF Big Shot Free Member

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    That was Scott-copywriter claiming that I thought that. I agreed with him, but you need to read and try to understand the post.
    Posted: Jun 21, 2017 By: Newchodge Member since: Nov 8, 2012