Brexit negotiations

MBE2017

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    Regarding a potential GE in the near future, there is a good chance of a hung parliament, since as many as 100 independents are expected to be elected, so sick is the country of this current crop of swamp dwellers.

    Unless someone can find a way to appeal to the masses with a simple argument, the current Brexit debacle is likely to continue. I would prefer a conservative Brexit alliance and the UK to leave on WTO personally, suck up the pain for a few years and then enjoy the rewards.
     
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    Mr D

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    I AM a European - I am very happy to live in the EU, but Brits are a poor fit. They only speak broken English and they seldom even want to travel abroad other than for short trips where they look for Marmite and a fish-and-chips shop.

    Most of my money comes from outside of the UK, so crashing the UK economy only serves to make me wealthier. A Boris-Brexit would personally suite me down to the ground - but I feel sorry for all the poor souls who are going to be poorer, have shelf-stacking as a university degree course and pay US prices for medical care. A Boris-Brexit would also suite me just fine politically as I believe that the UK should be broken up.

    Some of us Brits speak better than broken English. We aren't all speaking like TOWIE or Corrie characters. :)
    Some of us have even got to the stage of not wearing socks and sandals when out and about. Well, in cold weather anyway.
     
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    Scott-Copywriter

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    Regarding a potential GE in the near future, there is a good chance of a hung parliament, since as many as 100 independents are expected to be elected, so sick is the country of this current crop of swamp dwellers.

    Unless someone can find a way to appeal to the masses with a simple argument, the current Brexit debacle is likely to continue.

    In my view, unless Boris wins a sufficient majority to get his deal through, the clock will start ticking on either a customs union or second referendum.

    Running a GE to break the deadlock is the last line of defence. Up to this point everyone, including many MPs, have been able to argue that we don't need a second ref as the issue is one of parliamentary arithmetic that could be resolved with an election.

    If that doesn't work either though, we really are stuck. What's left? Even a 4th GE in five years, however ridiculous that may be, won't be feasible unless we have a cooling off period which will require a long-term extension from the EU.

    By that point, either the Government will cave and allow Parliament to amend the deal as they see fit (probably leading to a customs union), or MPs will accept that no matter how much swathes of the country will be outraged at the thought of a second referendum, it's the only option left.

    If that sounds unlikely, bear in mind that a lot of MPs probably wouldn't mind a referendum but are merely scared of the backlash. And even some Tories may be swayed if it's the only way that has a chance of getting a deal through that avoids a rule-taker outcome (i.e. customs union).
     
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    Mr D

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    Regarding a potential GE in the near future, there is a good chance of a hung parliament, since as many as 100 independents are expected to be elected, so sick is the country of this current crop of swamp dwellers.

    Unless someone can find a way to appeal to the masses with a simple argument, the current Brexit debacle is likely to continue. I would prefer a conservative Brexit alliance and the UK to leave on WTO personally, suck up the pain for a few years and then enjoy the rewards.

    A hung parliament? Yes possible.
    However that could also change the math for getting things voted through parliament. Or defeated such that no way can it hope to pass.
    100 independents would mean dozens of seats lost from the parties known to have helped prolong the problems.

    Unless Sinn Fein win hundreds of seats instead then we'd be looking at hopefully dozens of new people in parliament. Hundreds? Maybe.
     
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    Mr D

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    In my view, unless Boris wins a sufficient majority to get his deal through, the clock will start ticking on either a customs union or second referendum.

    Running a GE to break the deadlock is the last line of defence. Up to this point everyone, including many MPs, have been able to argue that we don't need a second ref as the issue is one of parliamentary arithmetic that could be resolved with an election.

    If that doesn't work either though, we really are stuck. What's left? Even a 4th GE in five years, however ridiculous that may be, won't be feasible unless we have a cooling off period which will require a long-term extension from the EU.

    By that point, either the Government will cave and allow Parliament to amend the deal as they see fit (probably leading to a customs union), or MPs will accept that no matter how much swathes of the country will be outraged at the thought of a second referendum, it's the only option left.

    If that sounds unlikely, bear in mind that a lot of MPs probably wouldn't mind a referendum but are merely scared of the backlash. And even some Tories may be swayed if it's the only way that has a chance of getting a deal through that avoids a rule-taker outcome (i.e. customs union).

    The thing about a deal - parliament cannot get both sides amended. Only one side, and if the other side says nay? Takes two sides to make a deal.
    Considering what MPs have been saying past couple of years then quite likely they'd be wanting to amend what EU cannot agree to.
     
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    Clinton

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    Some of us have even got to the stage of not wearing socks and sandals when out and about.
    I don't wear sandals but am tempted to wear them sometimes just so I can wear socks with those sandals and stick two fingers up to the fashion police.

    In my view, unless Boris wins a sufficient majority to get his deal through, the clock will start ticking on either a customs union or second referendum.
    Don't worry, he'll win a majority. In fact, you should hope that he wins a majority. Because if he doesn't, he'll need Brexit Party votes in Parliament and we all know what kind of Brexit they want. It's called:

    A WTO Brexit
    A Clean Break Brexit
    A Proper Brexit
    An Opportunity Brexit.

    Take your pick.
     
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    Scott-Copywriter

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    The thing about a deal - parliament cannot get both sides amended. Only one side, and if the other side says nay? Takes two sides to make a deal.
    Considering what MPs have been saying past couple of years then quite likely they'd be wanting to amend what EU cannot agree to.

    I think if Parliament was left to its own devices, we'd probably end up with a customs union (or something very close to it). If so, the EU would take our arm off. It keeps us close, greatly mitigates any economic impact (on both sides) and solves the Irish border issue too.

    It's our insistence on a more distant relationship that has caused this to drag out for as long as it has.
     
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    Mr D

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    I think if Parliament was left to its own devices, we'd probably end up with a customs union (or something very close to it). If so, the EU would take our arm off. It keeps us close, greatly mitigates any economic impact (on both sides) and solves the Irish border issue too.

    It's our insistence on a more distant relationship that has caused this to drag out for as long as it has.

    If keeping a customs union (which is surely part of later negotiations anyway?) then have we left the EU?
    Something for the leave voters to think about.
     
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    Clinton

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    It's our insistence on a more distant relationship that has caused this to drag out for as long as it has.
    No, it's Labour insistence on a CU that has dragged this out.

    Why do you think Labour kept on about getting more time to study the deal Boris struck? Not to actually study it, but to wreck it with a CU amendment! In fact, the few Labour MPs who voted for it initially only did so because they could wreck it later with a CU amendment.

    If it wasn't for Labour, who want a closer relationship, we'd have been out a long time ago!
     
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    Scott-Copywriter

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    Don't worry, he'll win a majority. In fact, you should hope that he wins a majority. Because if he doesn't, he'll need Brexit Party votes in Parliament and we all know what kind of Brexit they want. It's called:

    A WTO Brexit
    A Clean Break Brexit
    A Proper Brexit
    An Opportunity Brexit.

    Take your pick.

    The problem with that is there are plenty of Conservative MPs vehemently against a no deal (or "WTO") Brexit. Go down that route and any Brexit Party votes will be cancelled out by the loss of Tory votes (and then some).

    As to whether he'll win a majority, the polls are looking reasonably good for Boris, at least in comparison to Labour. But the two crucial factors are:

    1). The Conservatives losing votes to the Brexit Party (they'll push hard for no deal and almost certainly split the leave vote to some degree).

    2). How the Labour/Lib Dem vote split turns out, and what kind of collaboration they may enter into.

    A key point is the Tories and the Brexit Party are on completely opposing sides when it comes to no deal/WTO, at least in terms of the likely MP numbers. Labour, the Lib Dems and other pro-remain parties though, while they have disagreements, are likely to find it easier to unite around a second referendum.

    We'll just have to wait and see. May thought this was a clever idea back in 2017 though, and look how that turned out.
     
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    Scott-Copywriter

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    An interesting article on the subject: https://www.ft.com/content/bb027040-fa65-11e9-98fd-4d6c20050229

    Amazingly - and I didn't remember this until now - May had a larger margin over Labour in the opinion polls when she called a snap election than Boris does now. And since then, the Brexit Party has entered the fray.

    Boris is taking a huge gamble here.
     
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    Mr D

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    The problem with that is there are plenty of Conservative MPs vehemently against a no deal (or "WTO") Brexit. Go down that route and any Brexit Party votes will be cancelled out by the loss of Tory votes (and then some).

    As to whether he'll win a majority, the polls are looking reasonably good for Boris, at least in comparison to Labour. But the two crucial factors are:

    1). The Conservatives losing votes to the Brexit Party (they'll push hard for no deal and almost certainly split the leave vote to some degree).

    2). How the Labour/Lib Dem vote split turns out, and what kind of collaboration they may enter into.

    A key point is the Tories and the Brexit Party are on completely opposing sides when it comes to no deal/WTO, at least in terms of the likely MP numbers. Labour, the Lib Dems and other pro-remain parties though, while they have disagreements, are likely to find it easier to unite around a second referendum.

    We'll just have to wait and see. May thought this was a clever idea back in 2017 though, and look how that turned out.

    Those voters against a 2nd referendum?
    Some of the leave voters. Some of the remain voters who believe in democracy.

    Whether their not wanting a 2nd referendum is the key element when deciding who to vote for, that's open to question.
    I would guess most of us at some point have disagreed with some policy, idea or stance of a candidate or party and voted for them anyway? Because the disagreement is not a key element.
     
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    Clinton

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    Boris is taking a huge gamble here.
    He's got balls. It's worked for him before. And he plays better to the electorate than the Maybot ever did.

    Amazingly - and I didn't remember this until now - May had a larger margin over Labour in the opinion polls ...
    And that's why Jeremy Corbyn went about creating an omnishambles of a Brexit policy - to ensure that Labour is unelectable.

    In fact, that may have been his secret plan all along. It's easy to criticise when you're in opposition, but when you're in government you have to deliver. And he knows that he can't. Forget delivering in government, he can't even get his party to agree on anything. And most of them don't like him! You think Labour is going to stay united and on message though the hustings!? No chance. This is going to be a right laugh.
     
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    Mr D

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    An interesting article on the subject: https://www.ft.com/content/bb027040-fa65-11e9-98fd-4d6c20050229

    Amazingly - and I didn't remember this until now - May had a larger margin over Labour in the opinion polls when she called a snap election than Boris does now. And since then, the Brexit Party has entered the fray.

    Boris is taking a huge gamble here.

    Its a gamble. Whether huge is … undecided.
    He comes across better when campaigning than TM did. If he can keep that up as PM - he has a chance. He's an untrustworthy idiot but charming with it. :)

    Corbyn is apparently good at campaigning. Whether he is good enough when hampered (or helped) by his middle of the fence sitting and his dislike of journalists intruding on him...

    Foot in mouth season is almost upon us. I enjoy general elections, watching the news for latest foot in mouth remarks.
    And the poster / ad campaign can be amusing. 10 points to first party to do a game of thrones element poster or social media ad. 20 points to do a star wars one. :)
     
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    Mr D

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    He's got balls. It's worked for him before. And he plays better to the electorate than the Maybot ever did.


    And that's why Jeremy Corbyn went about creating an omnishambles of a Brexit policy - to ensure that Labour is unelectable.

    In fact, that may have been his secret plan all along. It's easy to criticise when you're in opposition, but when you're in government you have to deliver. And he knows that he can't. Forget delivering in government, he can't even get his party to agree on anything. And most of them don't like him! You think Labour is going to stay united and on message though the hustings!? No chance. This is going to be a right laugh.

    In a way I feel sorry for some of the labour MPs.
    Their area voted considerably one way. The MP has to campaign against parties who have defined their stance on Brexit and who will likely stick to promises made. While the labour MP campaigning for reelection has his voting record used, has a party on the fence and plans for a decision to be made only after getting into government.
    I can see that will impact ability to campaign like the others. :)
     
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    Scott-Copywriter

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    In fact, that may have been his secret plan all along. It's easy to criticise when you're in opposition, but when you're in government you have to deliver. And he knows that he can't. Forget delivering in government, he can't even get his party to agree on anything. And most of them don't like him! You think Labour is going to stay united and on message though the hustings!? No chance. This is going to be a right laugh.

    Perhaps. The big, big unknown though is the Brexit Party.

    According to recent polls, 46% of leave voters say leaving without a deal is a "good" outcome, even when there's an option to vote for a compromise such as Boris' deal.

    This is a huge percentage, and the Brexit Party can target that with laser focus while the Tories have to strike a balance to please numerous points of view. This will be the first GE where there's a party really pushing the virtues of a no deal/WTO Brexit as the preferential option above all else. They can paint the Tories as a party of indecisiveness, much like the Lib Dems have with Labour. And crucially they'll have Farage, the darling of many a' leaver.

    Unless they try to form a pact, or the Brexit Party understands that their success could put Corbyn into power and acts accordingly, I think they'll eat right into Tory votes and possibly cause a big headache for Boris.

    We'll find out December 12th.
     
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    Mr D

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    Perhaps. The big, big unknown though is the Brexit Party.

    According to recent polls, 46% of leave voters say leaving without a deal is a "good" outcome, even when there's an option to vote for a compromise such as Boris' deal.

    This is a huge percentage, and the Brexit Party can target that with laser focus while the Tories have to strike a balance to please numerous points of view. This will be the first GE where there's a party really pushing the virtues of a no deal/WTO Brexit as the preferential option above all else. They can paint the Tories as a party of indecisiveness, much like the Lib Dems have with Labour. And crucially they'll have Farage, the darling of many a' leaver.

    Unless they try to form a pact, or the Brexit Party understands that their success could put Corbyn into power and acts accordingly, I think they'll eat right into Tory votes and possibly cause a big headache for Boris.

    We'll find out December 12th.

    Minor point.
    We'll find out on Friday the 13th.
    Voting on the 12th.

    Anyone feeling lucky about Friday the 13th?

    Any candidates named Jason or have a grown son named Jason.... :)
     
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    Mr D

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    This is a business forum, come on who of you have not taken a very large gamble, you balance the known information and chose either yes or no to the gamble, thats what Boris has done and planned for the last 90 odd days as the only realistic way of ending the deadlock

    Potential win - a decent majority, next 5 years in power and maybe getting rid of Corbyn as labour leader. Not outside the realm of possibilities.
    Potential loss - he loses his job and goes on to earn loads more money elsewhere. Perhaps somewhat more likely than win.
    Or he could end up no worse off than he was last week.
     
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    Cobby

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    In my view, unless Boris wins a sufficient majority to get his deal through, the clock will start ticking on either a customs union or second referendum.

    Running a GE to break the deadlock is the last line of defence. Up to this point everyone, including many MPs, have been able to argue that we don't need a second ref as the issue is one of parliamentary arithmetic that could be resolved with an election.
    Lots of predictions around this kinda reasoning but what I see to be missing is that Johnson will take every opportunity to skirt the law and abuse the spirit of archaic Parliamentary procedure to push through No Deal via sleight of hand.

    Crashing out with 'No Deal' is still the default outcome at the end of January and, if his deal gets approved and negotiations aren't fruitful, it can end up being the default outcome at the end of the transition period.
     
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    Cobby

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    I would prefer a conservative Brexit alliance and the UK to leave on WTO personally, suck up the pain for a few years and then enjoy the rewards.
    None of the evidence suggests "pain for a few years" followed by "rewards". It suggests huge economic damage for at least a decade, possibly more.

    If you have any reliable evidence to the contrary, lots of folk would be interested to see it.
     
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    Cobby

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    It's called:

    A WTO Brexit
    A Clean Break Brexit
    A Proper Brexit
    An Opportunity Brexit.

    Take your pick.
    It's leaving the EU without any form of deal (despite the Leave campaigns' promises), and with no other trading arrangements in place beyond the absolute basic "emergency tax" system of trade. Most accurately described as crashing out with a "No Deal Brexit".

    Quitting your job without another to go to leaves you jobless, not "Job Rich".


    And 17 million people who voted Leave would be perfectly content if a referendum resulted in the UK not leaving?
    Please stop doing this. It's incredibly dishonest.

    Boris Johnson, leader of Vote Leave: "This deal delivers what 17.4m people voted for."

    Nigel Farage, leader of Leave EU: "The Prime Minister’s deal is not a proper Brexit. It is far removed from what 17.4m of us voted for in 2016"

    They can't agree on what was voted for. Yet somehow, all 17.4m people voted knowing the same things, voted for this deal and against this deal, voted for No Deal Brexit and against No Deal Brexit, and will all feel betrayed no matter which kind of Brexit is delivered.

    The 17.4m was a number from three years and two Parliaments ago. It has no single mind or single purpose, so stop trying to use it as a club in place of a rational argument.
     
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    Mr D

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    It's leaving the EU without any form of deal (despite the Leave campaigns' promises), and with no other trading arrangements in place beyond the absolute basic "emergency tax" system of trade. Most accurately described as crashing out with a "No Deal Brexit".

    Quitting your job without another to go to leaves you jobless, not "Job Rich".



    Please stop doing this. It's incredibly dishonest.

    Boris Johnson, leader of Vote Leave: "This deal delivers what 17.4m people voted for."

    Nigel Farage, leader of Leave EU: "The Prime Minister’s deal is not a proper Brexit. It is far removed from what 17.4m of us voted for in 2016"

    They can't agree on what was voted for. Yet somehow, all 17.4m people voted knowing the same things, voted for this deal and against this deal, voted for No Deal Brexit and against No Deal Brexit, and will all feel betrayed no matter which kind of Brexit is delivered.

    The 17.4m was a number from three years and two Parliaments ago. It has no single mind or single purpose, so stop trying to use it as a club in place of a rational argument.


    Cobby, you are aware that a trade deal may take a while? Leave with a Boris deal or leave with WTO deal in January, any comprehensive deal may well take a couple of years or more.

    We spent a while negotiating a deal on leaving - then over 6 months arguing about it before eventually having more negotiation that some say is a worse for UK deal.

    From what I see we were always going to leave without a trade deal. When the other side insists on dealing with the leaving part before they will discuss trade deal then not a lot can be done.
    Our politicians pout and blame the EU. However with just leaving to focus on our politicians show surprising disagreement.
    Imagine the arguments if both leaving and trade were negotiated together!
     
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    thetiger2015

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    This is a business forum, come on who of you have not taken a very large gamble, you balance the known information and chose either yes or no to the gamble, thats what Boris has done and planned for the last 90 odd days as the only realistic way of ending the deadlock

    Nobody on here has gambled with a country and 50 odd million people though?

    The government shouldn’t need to use gambles or bets to get things done. They should be using balance and data to bring conclusions that are most pleasing to most people - not just 17.4 million but over 50% of the population should be fairly happy that the government has done its research.
     
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    Mr D

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    Nobody on here has gambled with a country and 50 odd million people though?

    The government shouldn’t need to use gambles or bets to get things done. They should be using balance and data to bring conclusions that are most pleasing to most people - not just 17.4 million but over 50% of the population should be fairly happy that the government has done its research.

    The government often gambles.
    They gamble that what they do will allow them to be elected again. They gamble that what they do is not bad for the economy. They gamble that wars will be won (for a definition of winning) and that crises can be handled.

    No different than humans gambling in other aspects.

    Most pleasing to most people?
    Where do you get the data from? The big referendum vote on the issue or multiple polls asking a few thousand people each who like filling in polling details?
    Any particular way you will get over 50% of the population to give data on an issue to be one way or another?
    Forced at gunpoint perhaps? Or universal suffrage and not doing anything until the holdouts do vote?
     
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    They should be using balance and data to bring conclusions that are most pleasing to most people

    Is this the government's job? To please people?

    Support for the death penalty is at/around 50% - so governments should bring it back?
    Most people don't want more houses built near them, especially around London
    Most people want lower taxes
    Most people want higher taxes to fund the NHS

    Which do you support?
     
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    Mr D

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    Is this the government's job? To please people?

    Support for the death penalty is at/around 50% - so governments should bring it back?
    Most people don't want more houses built near them, especially around London
    Most people want lower taxes
    Most people want higher taxes to fund the NHS

    Which do you support?

    I think at this point in time most people want better MPs. :)
    Sadly not enough are stepping down, have to do this the old fashioned way.

    Wanting higher taxes may be pushing it. Agree that there should be higher taxes to fund the NHS, sure. And wanting other people to pay the taxes.
    Such as businesses, directors, people with bigger houses than them etc. :)

    Seriously, the NHS is one of those things that can absorb whatever we chuck at it in terms of money. Spending it wisely? Not in my experience both professionally and personally.
     
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    MBE2017

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    Seriously, the NHS is one of those things that can absorb whatever we chuck at it in terms of money. Spending it wisely? Not in my experience both professionally and personally.

    Story in the news today of one NHS trust £40 million in debt paying a guy £2k per day to lower their costs, who dreams up these contracts? Plenty of very capable people would do the same for a quarter of that amount.
     
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    Mr D

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    Story in the news today of one NHS trust £40 million in debt paying a guy £2k per day to lower their costs, who dreams up these contracts? Plenty of very capable people would do the same for a quarter of that amount.

    Perhaps they need some capable business people to manage the business side of things.
    Certainly could do with some trained cooking staff. I can cope with bland food - was raised on it. Inedible food doesn't help promote healing. Though makes for a drastic diet.
     
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    Wanting higher taxes may be pushing it. Agree that there should be higher taxes to fund the NHS, sure. And wanting other people to pay the taxes.

    Interestingly a majority support higher taxes for all. Of course, a bigger majority support higher taxes for people richer than them.

    The NHS will always struggle until we start being honest about two things.

    1) You're responsible for your own health - ie if you eat like pig and never exercise, you will get ill.
    2) You are going to die - A lot of money is spent keeping people alive for a few days/weeks longer or giving treatment which is unnecessary, costly and uncomfortable. There needs to be honest conversations about death.

    For example two of my grandparents die of cancer with 15 days of each other. It was terminal by the time it was found, as they didn't like to go to the doctor. The doctors knew that they wouldn't live, but gave them chemo anyway. This had no medical benefit, made them feel worse and cost the NHS a lot of money. But they do it, as it's better to be seen to be doing something rather than nothing.
     
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    KM-Tiger

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    Perhaps they need some capable business people to manage the business side of things.
    They already have far too many managers! But sadly it is often very poorly managed.

    I've reached an age where I have more exposure to the NHS than I've ever had in my life before. It's incredibly lumpy, some very, very good, and other parts just awful. Somehow that needs to change.

    The NHS also has very high purchasing power, but it doesn't use it. There will be millions that could be saved.
     
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    Mr D

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    Interestingly a majority support higher taxes for all. Of course, a bigger majority support higher taxes for people richer than them.

    The NHS will always struggle until we start being honest about two things.

    1) You're responsible for your own health - ie if you eat like pig and never exercise, you will get ill.
    2) You are going to die - A lot of money is spent keeping people alive for a few days/weeks longer or giving treatment which is unnecessary, costly and uncomfortable. There needs to be honest conversations about death.

    For example two of my grandparents die of cancer with 15 days of each other. It was terminal by the time it was found, as they didn't like to go to the doctor. The doctors knew that they wouldn't live, but gave them chemo anyway. This had no medical benefit, made them feel worse and cost the NHS a lot of money. But they do it, as it's better to be seen to be doing something rather than nothing.

    1. Yes - and the women have a saying for that. My body my choice. Others cannot cope with an individual making their own choices rather than the state approved choices! Then years later it comes out the state was wrong to suggest something was bad.

    Sorry to hear of your loss, sadly one of the more common illnesses.
     
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    Cobby

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    Still doing it I see!

    Guesses =/= evidence.

    Give it up bruh.
    Good grief. In the real world we use best evidence to help us make decisions. The better the evidence the more secure we are that the decisions we make lead to the outcome we desire.

    At this point, if you're still trying to argue against this basic idea, then you're just being obtuse. Grow up.
     
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    simon field

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    Feb 4, 2011
    6,854
    2,688
    Ok, one last go at it.

    Look, I'm sure your vocabulary allows you to use suitable words. Here are a few you should try:

    Predictions. Forecasts. Opinions. Guesses.

    See, evidence is generally taken to mean something that has happened and can be proven.

    What on earth are you teaching your kids??
     
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    thetiger2015

    Free Member
    Aug 29, 2015
    957
    411
    Is this the government's job? To please people?

    Support for the death penalty is at/around 50% - so governments should bring it back?
    Most people don't want more houses built near them, especially around London
    Most people want lower taxes
    Most people want higher taxes to fund the NHS

    Which do you support?

    Is this the governments job to please people? Well, hang on, you keep going on about pleasing 17.4m people and sod the rest? You keep saying that you want your government to do whatever you want and they shouldn't even debate it, they should Brexit because you're stomping your little feet? Even though millions of people voted the other way, you're the only important person in the country?

    The NHS doesn't need higher taxes. That's nonsensical and an excuse for the government to either a) privatise it / private health insurance it b) increase taxes and plough more money in to something that is badly managed just so they can say, fixed it.

    The NHS has good funding but it's being spent on PR/Marketing and Management teams that sit around a table all day in suits discussing their golf handicap and what food they should order for their awards ceremony. The NHS is being pulled apart by greed and individuals who only work a few hours a week but demand huge salaries while nurses are being battered by drunks in A&E after working a 60 hour week.

    Most people want lower taxes - obviously. The government can achieve this through improved management of public services and increasing productivity and exporting. Not that Brexit is going to assist with any of that. Lower taxes are achievable but the Conservatives are a high tax party, they want the working person to be taxed right up to the limit, so they have to work as long as they're told to or starve. It's the Conservative way, high tax, low disposable income to keep the worker bees working for their Lordships.

    Most people don't want houses built near them - I agree. I don't like new houses being built near my countryside abode but perhaps the government should be looking at better quality living standards and improved building design. British housing estates are appallingly laid out and offer no room for growth. They're poorly thought out, overly expensive and the build quality is poor. They also pop up on land that really should be left to nature, instead of re-working land that is already developed poorly. They could replace large swathes of London with property that accommodates more people in much better and more plushy environments but they're persisting with the nonsense of 3 bedroom houses with a garage that can't actually fit a modern car in and takes up more space than is required for the occupants. Less people would be accused of 'NIMBYism' if what they were getting was a well thought out, well planned and environmentally conscious solution to housing issues. We don't get that, we get 500 houses plonked on an ancient woodland with the displacement of hundreds of native animals and beings - that's why people become NIMBYs

    Support for the death penalty is at 50% - any official link to data on that? Even so, support for the death penalty is like Brexit. What kind of death penalty? Are we talking for mass murderers? Are we talking for someone who forgot to put the bins out on time? A death penalty for someone who has murdered dozens of people is probably going to get a lot of acceptance, even among some lefties but the death penalty returning for someone who stole a loaf of bread...no...that won't get 50% support, maybe 5%.

    The government is voted in by the electorate to run the country, keep order and ensure the population are as safe as possible. The military, the police, the emergency services all work to achieve this but the mis-management of tax payer money and the cutting of vital services and frontline staff is really angering people.
     
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