Brexit negotiations

[Mr D]

So, one vote won - so enough agree at the moment with the deal.
Then lost on the timetable - they want more time. As one MP pointed out when it came to the Benn Act they didn't need much time but when it comes to something he wants...
Delay, delay, delay - to avoid implementing what parliament previously agreed to.

 

[Alan]

to avoid implementing what parliament previously agreed to

Sort of - Labour chappy just on the TV said that they need the time to negotiate changes and amendments to the deal to make it acceptable. So they have voted it through to the next stage, so that they all don't loose their seats due to public backlash if Boris had somehow gone for a General Election, but now they are trying to get enough time to change it.

Oh the games they play in our name...

 

[Mr D]

Sort of - Labour chappy just on the TV said that they need the time to negotiate changes and amendments to the deal to make it acceptable. So they have voted it through to the next stage, so that they all don't loose their seats due to public backlash if Boris had somehow gone for a General Election, but now they are trying to get enough time to change it.

Oh the games they play in our name...

Changes they make that either the other side ignore as not affecting them, or changes the other side refuse to make because this is the deal take it or leave it.

And in the meantime delay, delay, delay...

I'm not sure how many extensions they'll be asking for next year but from talking to other sellers on other sites they are reporting sales lower than expected for this time of year.
And international sales right down.

 

[RobinBHM]

I can see the EU crumbling into dust after the loss of one of its most significant members.

Ooooh that's gonna hurt!

Lets see the UK trying to negotiate a FTA with the UK.
Fishing rights
Financial services
Gibraltar
Complication of divergence

Oooh thats gonna really really hurt.

Personally Id like to see the Tories own the fallout from a no deal.

 

[RobinBHM]

Changes they make that either the other side ignore as not affecting them, or changes the other side refuse to make because this is the deal take it or leave it.

And in the meantime delay, delay, delay...

I'm not sure how many extensions they'll be asking for next year but from talking to other sellers on other sites they are reporting sales lower than expected for this time of year.
And international sales right down

Thats what you get when government use Brexit and populist propaganda for their narrow self interest.

Johnson doesnt give a monkeys for Brexit, he only cares about power.
Hopefully he will bring a no deal on himself, thatll bring him down to earth

 

[simon field]

Lets see the UK trying to negotiate a FTA with the UK.
Fishing rights
Financial services
Gibraltar
Complication of divergence

Oooh thats gonna really really hurt.

Personally Id like to see the Tories own the fallout from a no deal.

why do we need to negotiate with ourselves?

 

[Clinton]

One week and one day left before the great opportunity of a WTO Brexit.

Or as some would put it, a "disastrous No Deal Brexit".

Or a "disastrous Tory hard right No Deal Brexit".

What they want instead is a Labour Brexit.

What is a Labour Brexit? Nobody knows yet. Labour will decide after they make up their minds on whether they want Brexit or want to cancel Brexit. What a shower!

 

[Mr D]

One week and one day left before the great opportunity of a WTO Brexit.

Or as some would put it, a "disastrous No Deal Brexit".

Or a "disastrous Tory hard right No Deal Brexit".

What they want instead is a Labour Brexit.

What is a Labour Brexit? Nobody knows yet. Labour will decide after they make up their minds on whether they want Brexit or want to cancel Brexit. What a shower!

Perhaps makes it hard to campaign on a party level about Brexit.
But if in leave areas the candidates campaign about leaving and in remain areas campaign to remain, can the party then try insisting it's MPs vote a particular way in parliament?

 

[Clinton]

Perhaps makes it hard to campaign on a party level about Brexit.

I've no idea how Labour will campaign at the GE, but when it comes to the subject of Brexit they're going to get ripped apart!

They've no idea whether they are coming or going. And they keep saying things that sound totally ridiculous to the man on the street.

Today Labour's MP Gloria De Piero says she voted "yes" to the Boris deal “not because I support the deal but because I don’t”.

You couldn't make this sh*t up!

 

[Newchodge]

Perhaps makes it hard to campaign on a party level about Brexit.
But if in leave areas the candidates campaign about leaving and in remain areas campaign to remain, can the party then try insisting it's MPs vote a particular way in parliament?

The Labour position is that, if a good deal can be negotiated, it should be put to the country as an alternative to remaining. If the Labour government has negotiated the best deal it can possibly get, and still considers it not good enough, it would campaign in the referendum on the basis that the deal is the best that is attainable, but it is not good enough because xyz.

Those people gloating over Johnson's 'win' yesterday don't seem to understand how parliament works. The proposed bill can be amended only if it moves to the next stage . If it is voted down at this stage it cannot be amended. Decent amendments may make this disastrous bill something that is worth putting to the electorate.

 

[MBE2017]

With the EU about to grant yet another extension, it looks like a December GE, Labour now claiming they will support the Gov in going for a GE as long as the extension given is long enough, ie to the end of January.

Hopefully Labour will be wiped out in many areas, Boris is likely to get a majority and the new treaty, an awful treaty will go through, thanks to the remoaners deliberately trying to stop Brexit.

People are so fed up with all the politicians now they just want any deal, in truth I doubt anyone will be happy with this one, but it is what we are likely to get.

 

[Clinton]

The Labour position is that, if a good deal can be negotiated, it should be put to the country as an alternative to remaining.

And then, they say, they would campaign for Remain.

They've been mocked mercilessly for this in the media so they're modifying their ridiculous position to a different ridiculous position.

Those people gloating over Johnson's 'win' yesterday don't seem to understand how parliament works. The proposed bill can be amended only if it moves to the next stage

We understand the subtlety. Some MPs voted it through yesterday only so they could wreck it later with all kinds of nonsense amendments like Customs Union which have no chance in hell of getting passed. They want to give the impression that they're not frustrating Brexit while doing their utmost to frustrate Brexit.

They are simply playing games. And using delaying tactics to prevent us leaving.

The man on the street is not going to understand the subtleties. He looks at things in a fairly simple way (as the Referendum showed). Labour taking a convoluted position, and a different convoluted position, and changing to yet another convoluted position shows them up to be the dithering fools that they are - half wanting to cancel Brexit altogether and the other half wanting to appeal to both Leave and Remain voters.

They will get slaughtered.

@Newchodge , vote Tory! They'll get Brexit done.

 

[Mr D]

The Labour position is that, if a good deal can be negotiated, it should be put to the country as an alternative to remaining. If the Labour government has negotiated the best deal it can possibly get, and still considers it not good enough, it would campaign in the referendum on the basis that the deal is the best that is attainable, but it is not good enough because xyz.

Those people gloating over Johnson's 'win' yesterday don't seem to understand how parliament works. The proposed bill can be amended only if it moves to the next stage . If it is voted down at this stage it cannot be amended. Decent amendments may make this disastrous bill something that is worth putting to the electorate.

The bill that is not moving forward?

Yes I agree with you regarding what labour want after they negotiate.
So what position will they take next year? What position will they take when it comes down to a vote?
They have changed position several times. Lets see what other positions are in the Karma Labour.

 

[Mr D]

With the EU about to grant yet another extension, it looks like a December GE, Labour now claiming they will support the Gov in going for a GE as long as the extension given is long enough, ie to the end of January.

Hopefully Labour will be wiped out in many areas, Boris is likely to get a majority and the new treaty, an awful treaty will go through, thanks to the remoaners deliberately trying to stop Brexit.

People are so fed up with all the politicians now they just want any deal, in truth I doubt anyone will be happy with this one, but it is what we are likely to get.

I for one will be glad when not paying for big businesses to pay for extra storage on short term contracts.

 

[RobinBHM]

great opportunity of a WTO Brexit

Anybody with knowledge of what really means knows how silly that statement is.

This is what it means:
UK will stand alone in the world with no trade agreements anywhere in the world
That is a very weak negotiating position.
Is that a great opportunity?

 

[RobinBHM]

The Labour position is that, if a good deal can be negotiated, it should be put to the country as an alternative to remaining. If the Labour government has negotiated the best deal it can possibly get, and still considers it not good enough, it would campaign in the referendum on the basis that the deal is the best that is attainable, but it is not good enough because xyz.

Those people gloating over Johnson's 'win' yesterday don't seem to understand how parliament works. The proposed bill can be amended only if it moves to the next stage . If it is voted down at this stage it cannot be amended. Decent amendments may make this disastrous bill something that is worth putting to the electorate.

Clearly time is needed to scrutinise the WAB, Johnson cannot be trusted and there are plenty of things coming to light.

 

[RobinBHM]

Today Labour's MP Gloria De Piero says she voted "yes" to the Boris deal “not because I support the deal but because I don’t”.

You couldn't make this sh*t up!

Johnson told parliament they must vote for the deal to stop no deal.
Johnson told the ERG they can vote for the deal as they can get their no deal next year.
You couldnt make this sh*t up

Johnson told the commons today no checks on goods going NI to UK
Yesterday Brexit secretary said there will be customs checks.
You couldnt make this sh*t up

 

[MBE2017]

Heard a caller on a radio show today who had come up with the idea of JC becoming the next Speaker of the House.

He explained that JC was more neutral than Bercow re the EU, hard to argue.

 

[Mr D]

Heard a caller on a radio show today who had come up with the idea of JC becoming the next Speaker of the House.

He explained that JC was more neutral than Bercow re the EU, hard to argue.

That is .... Not a bad idea.
Though he cannot control his own party so keeping control of multiple parties during a heated debate... Not shown skill that way.

 

[MBE2017]

Labours David Lammy tweeted...”
The French President has more influence over the length of our extension than the British Prime Minister.
Brexit is not taking back control, it's giving it away.”

Thousands pointed out he voted for the surrender bill which gave the EU this power, you really couldn’t make it up, although with him sleeping in the HOC, he probably missed it.

 

[RobinBHM]

Labours David Lammy tweeted...”
The French President has more influence over the length of our extension than the British Prime Minister.
Brexit is not taking back control, it's giving it away.”

Thousands pointed out he voted for the surrender bill which gave the EU this power, you really couldn’t make it up, although with him sleeping in the HOC, he probably missed it.

The Benn act did no such thing.
Unlike Johnsons surrender deal.

If you want to see what loss of control looks like, wait till you see the UK try and do a FTA with the EU, or just as laughable, the UK do a deal with the US.

Imagine the only country in the world without a single trade agreement........lets hope Johnson gets a no deal then we can all enjoy watching him get the worst trade deals in history.....and he will have to own it

 

[Mr D]

Labours David Lammy tweeted...”
The French President has more influence over the length of our extension than the British Prime Minister.
Brexit is not taking back control, it's giving it away.”

Thousands pointed out he voted for the surrender bill which gave the EU this power, you really couldn’t make it up, although with him sleeping in the HOC, he probably missed it.

He claims he was not sleeping but checking emails on his phone.
Which considering his issue with not being given enough time to study the deal and in a session about the deal is laughable.

He was also aware all along that extensions require a vote by other countries. Which has to be unanimous.

Do these idiots even read what the rest of us do?

 

[RobinBHM]

Do these idiots even read what the rest of us do?

Clearly Johnson is an idiot, he seems to think unfettered access means the same as border checks.

Or perhaps he just lied, after all he did not want the DUP to realise there would be friction between NI and GB.

Brexit: It doesnt stand up to scrutiny, because it is a Tory con

 

[Clodbuster]

To parody Churchill - Never in the history of Parliament have so many been f****d by so few for so long.

 

[MBE2017]

Apparently Diane Abbott is now calling for ALL migrants to be given £1000 to help them settle in the UK. After that, she then wants them to be allowed to vote within a year.

That’s going to go down well.

 

[Mr D]

Apparently Diane Abbott is now calling for ALL migrants to be given £1000 to help them settle in the UK. After that, she then wants them to be allowed to vote within a year.

That’s going to go down well.

Ah good old Diane.
She doesn't know how far £1k will go. Nor does she care.
Just a figure she plucked out of the air.

Is she that desperate for votes?

 

[RobinBHM]

To parody Churchill - Never in the history of Parliament have so many been f****d by so few for so long.

Is this a 'will of the people' themed post?

Whatever form of Brexit transpires the people will have to tolerate a decade of Brexit failure.

All the time Brexit hasnt happened Johnson and his cabinet can continue doubling down on the lies. It will fun watching them make excuses when it does happen.
We need to have a no deal because any other form of Brexit and Johnson and Co will be blaming the 'soft brexit' for failure.

Anybody that still believes in sunny uplands will need to start thinking of good excuses as the UK capitulates on one trade deal after another.

Heres a few to start:
Brexit wasnt hard enough
Its the fault of remainers
Its the fault of government
Its the fault of the EU
Its due to world recession

 

[Clinton]

Ah good old Diane.
She doesn't know how far £1k will go.

It doesn't matter how far it goes or doesn't go. Labour relies for votes on benefit claimants and immigrants. Not all their votes, of course, but a large chunk of these demographics vote Labour.

So Labour knows that if they get more immigrants in and give them free money, those immigrants will vote Labour. Probably for the rest of their lives.

From an investment point of view, it's a good investment, especially when it's not even your own money!

The UK is as corrupt as Nigeria, India, everywhere else! It's just that corruption happens differently here. You don't bribe a copper to let you off a ticket. But it's okay to promote a copper - who was responsible for one of the most appalling failures (Charles de menezes) and coverups - in exchange for ...what? We don't know. And it's okay to bribe entire forces with money (by, for example, making it easier for them to raise revenue on speeding fines).

What amazes me is that the party that's responsible for giving away hundreds of billions to their voter base over the years - in all kinds of benefits and handouts and freebie bribes - screamed blue murder when Theresa May bribed the DUP with a billion quid (and that wasn't even for the DUP MPs to take home, it was for spending on public services in Northern Ireland!)

 

[Mr D]

It doesn't matter how far it goes or doesn't go. Labour relies for votes on benefit claimants and immigrants. Not all their votes, of course, but a large chunk of these demographics vote Labour.

So Labour knows that if they get more immigrants in and give them free money, those immigrants will vote Labour. Probably for the rest of their lives.

From an investment point of view, it's a good investment, especially when it's not even your own money!

The UK is as corrupt as Nigeria, India, everywhere else! It's just that corruption happens differently here. You don't bribe a copper to let you off a ticket. But it's okay to promote a copper - who was responsible for one of the most appalling failures (Charles de menezes) and coverups - in exchange for ...what? We don't know. And it's okay to bribe entire forces with money (by, for example, making it easier for them to raise revenue on speeding fines).

What amazes me is that the party that's responsible for giving away hundreds of billions to their voter base over the years - in all kinds of benefits and handouts and freebie bribes - screamed blue murder when Theresa May bribed the DUP with a billion quid (and that wasn't even for the DUP MPs to take home, it was for spending on public services in Northern Ireland!)

Perhaps encouraging people not to donate to coffers by being caught speeding helps change some people's actions. Ignoring speeding appears not to reduce speeding.

Yes, here has some corruption. Cannot say it should be reduced or eliminated - there are way too many people who rely on handouts who presumably can be bribed / punished to encourage actions. Basic training method used around the world.
And a fairly common human response, to support those who give you the most in the short term.

Not everyone does it of course - we are herd creatures as a group but only to a point, like any herd. Individuals for one reason or another will look at other factors, have different desires besides the Maslow's hierarchy of needs.

 

[MBE2017]

Now David Lammy is calling for asylum to the UK to be madeeasier from anywhere in the world, to stop these people being persecuted, following the multiple deaths in the sealed container recently.

The simple fact that at least one woman’s family of the believed dead have admitted to paying £30k to get her smuggled to the UK shows it is just as likely she was an economic migrant, rather than fleeing persecution.

 

[Mr D]

Now David Lammy is calling for asylum to the UK to be madeeasier from anywhere in the world, to stop these people being persecuted, following the multiple deaths in the sealed container recently.

The simple fact that at least one woman’s family of the believed dead have admitted to paying £30k to get her smuggled to the UK shows it is just as likely she was an economic migrant, rather than fleeing persecution.

Pretty sure those people that died would not have lived longer by it being easier to claim asylum.

Perhaps if there was some way people could enter the country and claim asylum. Hey, it appears we have that, based on the fact people do enter the country and claim asylum.
Not easy to get it - not sure there is an easy place to get asylum these days. But certainly people do claim it.

 

[Clinton]

According to the polls, the Tories were 12% up on Labour last month. Now they are 16% up - today's Opimium Poll - and riding high on 40% while Labour languish on 24%.

Jeremy Corbyn, the more you delay on agreeing to an election the worst it's going to be!

If we have a GE in Dec, the polls suggest that the Lib Dems and SNP will get more MPs than they have now.

So, guess what, the opportunistic oiks are going to support a bill calling for a general election! They are going to support Boris Johnson - Boris Johnson! - and vote for an election. The DUP are signalling that they might vote in favour as well.

Corbyn must be livid that the Lib Dems and SNP have deserted him and that the DUP who made some noises about siding with Corbyn have also now changed their minds.

If a GE is called, I wonder how Corbyn will campaign. Given his previous dithering and inability to reach a decision, is he going to tell Labour supporters that they should vote for all the main parties?

 

[Mr D]

According to the polls, the Tories were 12% up on Labour last month. Now they are 16% up - today's Opimium Poll - and riding high on 40% while Labour languish on 24%.

Jeremy Corbyn, the more you delay on agreeing to an election the worst it's going to be!

If we have a GE in Dec, the polls suggest that the Lib Dems and SNP will get more MPs than they have now.

So, guess what, the opportunistic oiks are going to support a bill calling for a general election! They are going to support Boris Johnson - Boris Johnson! - and vote for an election. The DUP are signalling that they might vote in favour as well.

Corbyn must be livid that the Lib Dems and SNP have deserted him and that the DUP who made some noises about siding with Corbyn have also now changed their minds.

If a GE is called, I wonder how Corbyn will campaign. Given his previous dithering and inability to reach a decision, is he going to tell Labour supporters that they should vote for all the main parties?

DUP would be fools to side with Labour.

They won't be forgiven any time soon for voting with the Tories and they have over the years tended to vote against Labour policies. So no reason Corbyn needs to listen to them or let them have an impact on what Labour does.
Its 10 MPs now - maybe less after a GE.

 

[RobinBHM]

So Labour knows that if they get more immigrants in and give them free money, those immigrants will vote Labour. Probably for the rest of their liv

Clinton thinks immigrants get the vote the day they set foot in the UK.
Otherwise his argument falls apart

 

[simon field]

No, its gonna take money. A whole lot of spending money.

Its gonna take patience and time. To do it right child.

 

[Newchodge]

I know it is very common for politicians to follow their leader in terms of attiotude and personality. But surely, following Johnson into the playground is not a good look.

James Cleverley's reason for not agreeing to the Lib Dem/SNP proposal for a general election:

"He said the government - which wants a poll three days later on 12 December - had put forward its plan first."

Or, in other words, "bags we get first go."

 

[Mr D]

I know it is very common for politicians to follow their leader in terms of attiotude and personality. But surely, following Johnson into the playground is not a good look.

James Cleverley's reason for not agreeing to the Lib Dem/SNP proposal for a general election:

"He said the government - which wants a poll three days later on 12 December - had put forward its plan first."

Or, in other words, "bags we get first go."

Indeed - and following Corbyn isn't a good look either.
Technically following him should mean doing something different from the party, as he did so many times. So do the MPs follow his example or do they follow what the party wants?
Oh wait, they can dither too... fail to come down on either side.

I'm pretty sure from what I've read that if the PM really wants a GE he can keep pushing for it until such time as he gets it.
Question is how much more campaigning can he do in the meantime more than the other parties? With their agreement.

 

[Newchodge]

I'm pretty sure from what I've read that if the PM really wants a GE he can keep pushing for it until such time as he gets it.

Then you have been reading garbage.

 

[Mr D]

Then you have been reading garbage.

Really?
I'll wait and see. He's raised the issue a few times now, lets see how many more times he raises the issue before he gets his way.
I'm betting its before the year 2022. Are you betting on the 5 years being kept for parliament?

 

[Newchodge]

There are various ways he can have an election after the Tories introduced the Fixed Term Parliament Act. Which they introduced to help keep them and the Lib Dem coalition in power. None of those ways can be pushed over and over again. However, he hasn't even tried once yet.