Are you a Christian?

[paultnl]

Jesus was the greatest Paramedic while he was on the earth, as he healed the deaf the blind, even raised the dead, and did many wonderful things.

How dare you try to compare your probably fictitious/composite character to real verifiable people who do real and important work without judgement of faith colour or creed. Your insulting attitude based solely on a very questionable indoctrination is the lowest form of insult to people who do genuinely good work.
​

 

[Hedgie]

DCE - no one reads your bloody bible quotes; use your own words.

You can start by explaining why JC's return is so late. His apostles and friends assumed his return was imminent, some of them didn't even go home after the burial.

Your lot - who have only been around all of 120 years and have been predicting the end since day 0 - have some explaining to do.

Try your OWN words. let's see if you have any.

I think the return you refer to was the resurrection which occured three days after his death and not the second coming which the JWs keep trying to predict.

 

[Hedgie]

How dare you try to compare your probably fictitious/composite character to real verifiable people who do real and important work without judgement of faith colour or creed. Your insulting attitude based solely on a very questionable indoctrination is the lowest form of insult to people who do genuinely good work.
​

While I agree that Jesus was capable of all manor of healing I do think to compare him with the Paramedis of today is a bit of a silly comparison. After all DCE, the amazing life saving gifts of Paramedics today is God given and I for one thank God for every Paramedic, doctor, and nurse.

 

[Hedgie]

I'll buy the first round but one night would only touch the surface.

I think the worlds drink reserves would be exhausted before anyone got started.

 

[paultnl]

While I agree that Jesus was capable of all manor of healing I do think to compare him with the Paramedis of today is a bit of a silly comparison. After all DCE, the amazing life saving gifts of Paramedics today is God given and I for one thank God for every Paramedic, doctor, and nurse.

The life saving skills of modern paramedics are the result of training and natural intelligence of the dedicated men and women who give their lives to the profession. Attributing "saves" to a deity demines their real skills and work.

 

[cjd]

I think the return you refer to was the resurrection which occured three days after his death and not the second coming which the JWs keep trying to predict.

Nope they quite specifically expected him back very quickly - you even have it in your own book:

“For the Son of Man is going to come in his Father’s glory with his angels, and then he will reward each person according to what he has done.
I tell you the truth, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom.”
—Matthew 16:21-28 (NIV)

You would have to turn the usual verbal cartwheels to make that say something different than it does, but I bet you try.

 

[LicensedToTrade]

You can start by explaining why JC's return is so late. His apostles and friends assumed his return was imminent, some of them didn't even go home after the burial. quote]

I tell you what, if JC was one of my employees, if he ever did come back he would get one hell of a return to work interview.

 

[DCE]

I think the return you refer to was the resurrection which occured three days after his death and not the second coming which the JWs keep trying to predict.

It was called the transfiguration which took place six days after Jesus said those words at Matthew 16:8 when he took Peter, James, and John up into a lofty mountain, likely a ridge of Mount Hermon. which was when he give three of his intimate disciples a spectacular foregleam of his glory in Kingdom power.

 

[quikshop]

the amazing life saving gifts of Paramedics today is God given

Do you praise your lord when he grants someone the gift of deformed limbs, mental illness or a compulsion to blow themselves up to kill others?

Or do you pick n' choose what to praise and what to keep quiet about

 

[stockdam]

Nope they quite specifically expected him back very quickly - you even have it in your own book:

“For the Son of Man is going to come in his Father’s glory with his angels, and then he will reward each person according to what he has done.
I tell you the truth, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom.”
—Matthew 16:21-28 (NIV)

You would have to turn the usual verbal cartwheels to make that say something different than it does, but I bet you try.

Of course you have to do cartwheels if you don't read this verse in context and read on. Atheist websites are full of this as they want to tell the headline and not the details that help. Read verse 17 and you'll see that 6 days later 3 of them saw Jesus in his Kingdom........the transfiguration which was a sample of what is to come. So yes "some of you" standing here will see the glory of Heaven before you die.

Sorry I am not a biblical scholar but it does help to read on or put the text in context. But I'm not here to tell you how to read the Bible and answer each objection. Wasn't really much of a cartwheel....you just needed to read the next couple of verses immediately following the text you quoted. It wasn't that difficult.

 

[cjd]

Of course you have to do cartwheels if you don't read this verse in context and read on. Atheist websites are full of this as they want to tell the headline and not the details that help. Read verse 17 and you'll see that 6 days later 3 of them saw Jesus in his Kingdom........the transfiguration which was a sample of what is to come. So yes "some of you" standing here will see the glory of Heaven before you die.

Sorry I am not a biblical scholar but it does help to read on or put the text in context. But I'm not here to tell you how to read the Bible and answer each objection. Wasn't really much of a cartwheel....sorry.

You really have to stretch don't you? Not enough just to take this stuff at face value, everything must be set "in context" ie. Bent out of shape.

This:

“For the Son of Man is going to come in his Father’s glory with his angels, and then he will reward each person according to what he has done.
I tell you the truth, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom.”

quite plainly means the second coming, not the transfiguration and that was what it was taken to mean by those listening.

There's just no way anybody around at the time thought that They'd still be waiting 2,000 years later. Just silly.

 

[stockdam]

You really have to stretch don't you? Not enough just to take this stuff at face value, everything must be set "in context" ie. Bent out of shape.

This:


quite plainly means the second coming, not the transfiguration and that was what it was taken to mean by those listening.

There's just no way anybody around at the time thought that They'd still be waiting 2,000 years later. Just silly.

Stretch? Golly I just had to read the next verse. I don't call that much of a challenge or a stretch. It's funny how the next verse answers the question yet you want to jump through hoops to say it doesn't. Which part of the next verse doesn't answer it as it seems quite obvious that the two are clearly related?

As I've said before, if you read Sun headlines you can believe what you want.......you need to do some reading to understand what is going on.

If you find any Preterists then you can have the debate with them.

 

[stockdam]

I think I understand why you had the problem.

If you read the two sentences and link them I can see what you mean.

However the first part....."For the son of man......" is about the future and it is about the 2nd coming. However the 2nd sentence is saying that some will get a glimpse of what is to come (a preview).

If you don't read on then I agree that you could take the interpretation that you took. But if you read on then the 2nd sentence makes sense and it is fulfilled. We are still waiting for the first sentence to occur.

Ok I see where you are coming from but it is quite clear to me what it means.

I'm not an expert so it will be easy to stump me. I'm better at drinking beer.

 

[cjd]

You seem to have a problem with your book. The second coming is when god and all his angels etc etc comes to earth; the transfiguration is when JC allegedly gets a bit weird with a few of his cronies in order to fulfil a prophesy. Matthew is plainly and obviously talking about the former not the latter.

You should know this stuff, an atheist shouldn't have to teach you.

And the reason the atheists like to point this out is because it's written in your bloody book.

ps - sorry about the thanks thing, still getting used to this iPad keyboard - call it divine intervention.

 

[stockdam]

You seem to have a problem with your book. The second coming is when god and all his angels etc etc comes to earth; the transfiguration is when JC allegedly gets a bit weird with a few of his cronies in order to fulfil a prophesy. Matthew is plainly and obviously talking about the former not the latter.

You should know this stuff, an atheist shouldn't have to teach you.

And the reason the atheists like to point this out is because it's written in your bloody book.

ps - sorry about the thanks thing, still getting used to this iPad keyboard - call it divine intervention.

Well we'll just have to disagree then. Verse 17 is the 2nd coming....that bit I agree with you. Verse 18 is about a preview. Chapter 17 then is the preview; a preview which Peter talks about in 2 Peter 1:16-18

Sorry for the quotations but it's important........."We did not follow cleverly invented stories when we told you about the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but we were eyewitnesses of his majesty." He then goes on to confirm the rest of the transfiguration.

So Peter clearly says that he had seen evidence of the second coming.

No the reason why atheists point this out is that they believe it is contradictory when it clearly isn't. Peter summarises the two events and the reasons for them; he was given evidence of what the 2nd coming would be like. I guess you won't get the full picture in the atheist websites........do they give a different interpretation for 2 Peter 1?

 

[stockdam]

I haven't the time as an alcoholic, ignorant, homeless bum to take on the might of the iAtheists with their iPads but looking at one or two verses in isolation without reading further is like analysing each brushstroke of the Mona Lisa and claiming it isn't right and in the process missing the full picture and the interaction of all the brushstrokes.

You've got to study and read and reread to see what is going on. I'm learning Visual Basic (wow bully for me) and the temptation is to copy and paste bits from forums and to build a Frankenstein program without doing the tedious work of learning how it works correctly thereby building a solid foundation.

Note to self........get the kids an iPad each for Christmas.

 

[cjd]

but looking at one or two verses in isolation without reading further is like analysing each brushstroke of the Mona Lisa and claiming it isn't right and in the process missing the full picture and the interaction of all the brushstrokes.

It's a very common mistake to make; thinking that atheist haven't read the bible. Most of us Western atheists were brought up Christian and chanted the bible like everyone else. I know it probably as well as most non fundamentalists do.

And I'm afraid there's no getting away from it, these are two connected sentences, one following the other, the second re-inforcing the first. To make it say anything different is simply retrofitting an excuse for the failed prophesy.

“For the Son of Man is going to come in his Father’s glory with his angels, and then he will reward each person according to what he has done.
I tell you the truth, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom.”

 

[DCE]

It's a very common mistake to make; thinking that atheist haven't read the bible. Most of us Western atheists were brought up Christian and chanted the bible like everyone else. I know it probably as well as most non fundamentalists do.

And I'm afraid there's no getting away from it, these are two connected sentences, one following the other, the second re-inforcing the first. To make it say anything different is simply retrofitting an excuse for the failed prophesy.

“For the Son of Man is going to come in his Father’s glory with his angels, and then he will reward each person according to what he has done.
I tell you the truth, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom.”

You are incorrect in your thinking because less than one year later, we find Jesus sitting upon the Mount of Olives, again in private conversation with his disciples.

Jesus explains what the sign of his future presence will be and then warns: “Keep on the watch, therefore, because you do not know on what day your Lord is coming.”

His followers must be constantly alert because the time of his coming is unknown. They must be ever ready for it.—Matthew 24:42.

In the manner of his coming, the Lord resembles a thief. He goes on to say: “But know one thing, that if the householder had known in what watch the thief was coming, he would have kept awake and not allowed his house to be broken into.” (Matthew 24:43)

A burglar does not make an announcement informing the householder when he will strike; his main weapon is surprise. Therefore, the householder must be on constant guard. However, for the faithful Christian, unflagging vigilance is not due to any fearful apprehension. Rather, it is motivated by an eager expectation of Christ’s coming in glory to usher in his Kingdom rulership.

Despite all the watching, no one will ever figure out in advance the exact day he is due to come. Jesus says: “On this account you too prove yourselves ready, because at an hour that you do not think to be it, the Son of man is coming.” (Matthew 24:44)

If a Christian were to think that on a certain day, Christ would not come, perhaps that would be the very day that he did come! Of course, well-meaning, faithful Christians in the past have sincerely tried to predict when the end would come of this present system Yet, Jesus’ caution has been proved true time and time again: “Concerning that day and hour nobody knows, neither the angels of the heavens nor the Son, but only the Father.”—Matthew 24:36.

As we see that the transpiration was seen by three of his disciples, marking the Kingdom arrangement as a future event, as we see later on, Jesus explained to them in further detail, what they had to do and why.

 

[cjd]

You are incorrect in your thinking because less than one year later, we find Jesus sitting upon the Mount of Olives etc

I'm not thinking anything. The bible does not rely on people thinking for themselves. I'm simply quoting verbatim the words of Jesus Christ where he says that the second coming will happen within the lives of some of his followers.

It's not ambiguous and it doesn't need to be "put in context" nor does it matter what he said or did later to someone else. It's clear that everyone around him at the time thought he'd be back very soon with his archangels and trumpets etc

He just got it wrong and I'm amazed that the biblical editors let Matthew's version stay in. Oops.

 

[DCE]

I'm not thinking anything. The bible does not rely on people thinking for themselves. I'm simply quoting verbatim the words of Jesus Christ where he says that the second coming will happen within the lives of some of his followers.

He just got it wrong and I'm amazed that the biblical editors let Matthew's version stay in. Oops.

It will because there are millions of his followers are alive today.

Also those you have died will get a resurrection?

(John 11:24-26) 25*Jesus said to her: “I am the resurrection and the life. He that exercises faith in me, even though he dies, will come to life; 26*and everyone that is living and exercises faith in me will never die at all. Do you believe this?.*.*.

This is to take place under his Kingdom rulership. Great, do you not agree?

 

[stockdam]

It's a very common mistake to make; thinking that atheist haven't read the bible. Most of us Western atheists were brought up Christian and chanted the bible like everyone else. I know it probably as well as most non fundamentalists do.

And I'm afraid there's no getting away from it, these are two connected sentences, one following the other, the second re-inforcing the first. To make it say anything different is simply retrofitting an excuse for the failed prophesy.

“For the Son of Man is going to come in his Father’s glory with his angels, and then he will reward each person according to what he has done.
I tell you the truth, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom.”

You may know the Bible better than I do.........I wasn't saying that. The point is that you clearly didn't take anything else into consideration when you tried (and still try) to make an invalid point.

As I said, Peter was at the transfiguration and this is what he said in 2 Peter......

"For we were not making up clever stories when we told you about the powerful coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. We saw his majestic splendor with our own eyes when he received honor and glory from God the Father. The voice from the majestic glory of God said to him, “This is my dearly loved Son, who brings me great joy. We ourselves heard that voice from heaven when we were with him on the holy mountain."

He states the reason for the transfiguration. It was done so that he (and the other two) would see a preview of what was to come later - not in their lifetime as you wrongly claim. He actually comments on both of the sentences you quoted and it is very obvious what he believed. He doesn't say anything about when the 2nd coming would take place.

Nobody is twisting anything but you.

Let's look at the verses you quoted in context........

“For the Son of Man is going to come in his Father’s glory with his angels, and then he will reward each person according to what he has done.
I tell you the truth, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom.”

And then the next verses......

"Six days later Jesus took Peter and the two brothers, James and John, and led them up a high mountain to be alone. As the men watched, Jesus’ appearance was transformed so that his face shone like the sun, and his clothes became as white as light."

So the 2nd sentence you quoted is fulfilled by the very next verse........you don't have to read too much further to understand. Why is the transfiguration put right after the verses you quoted?

But your agenda is not to understand and to put into context. You quote from the Bible to make a point but fail to connect important supporting passages. Peter answers your point in his own words.

 

[stockdam]

It's not ambiguous and it doesn't need to be "put in context" nor does it matter what he said or did later to someone else. It's clear that everyone around him at the time thought he'd be back very soon with his archangels and trumpets etc

And I'll say again that Peter answered this......it was clear to him what it meant and why.

He just got it wrong and I'm amazed that the biblical editors let Matthew's version stay in. Oops.

Well here's were it gets tedious as you said you have read the Bible.
Matthew's version wasn't the only version..........is that a surprise?

Look at Luke 9 verses 26 to 28. Almost the same version except he says about 8 days and not 6 days as Matthew said.

But the clincher that blows your argument out of the water is Mark 9 verse 1 and 2. Note that he has put verses one and two together......but where's the bit about the 2nd coming..........it's in Mark 8 verse 38. So Mark has clearly separated the two verses that you quoted from Matthew as they are different but related subjects.

Pity that Mark doesn't agree with you but I thought you knew your Bible.

 

[cjd]

It will because there are millions of his followers are alive today.

Haha, now you're getting really desperate.

He was talking to people there with him. "some who ARE standing here" can only mean the people he was talking to at the time.

 

[cjd]

"Six days later Jesus took Peter and the two brothers, James and John, and led them up a high mountain to be alone. As the men watched, Jesus’ appearance was transformed so that his face shone like the sun, and his clothes became as white as light."

So the 2nd sentence you quoted is fulfilled by the very next verse........you don't have to read too much further to understand. Why is the transfiguration put right after the verses you quoted?

Please tell me how the transfiguration has ANYTHING to do with the promise of the second Advent which JC is referring to in Matthew.

You know that they're totally different concepts - one is where the kingdom of heaven returns to earth in all its pomp and glory, the prophecies are fulfilled and we all get judged. The other is a miracle intended to prove that JC is who he says he is - no Advent, they all walk back down the mountain and get on with life and no-ones the wiser.

Quite different things, 'don't you agree?' (As DCE and the Watchtower likes to say.)

 

[cjd]

Pity that Mark doesn't agree with you but I thought you knew your Bible.

Now isn't that interesting, you're saying that we can't rely on Matthew, and that Matthew and Mark give contradictory evidence.

Now what conclusion does that lead us to I wonder? Oh I know, they made it up and forgot to get together in the apostle canteen to get their evidence aligned ;-)

Pick and mix religion, don't you just love it? Don't like what Matthew says? Just read Mark. do'h.

 

[stockdam]

Now isn't that interesting, you're saying that we can't rely on Matthew, and that Matthew and Mark give contradictory evidence.

Now what conclusion does that lead us to I wonder? Oh I know, they made it up and forgot to get together in the apostle canteen to get their evidence aligned ;-)

Pick and mix religion, don't you just love it? Don't like what Matthew says? Just read Mark. do'h.

Once again you try to deliberately misrepresent things. Matthew and Mark and Luke give similar accounts of these verses. If they were identical and there were no differences then you would claim that they colluded.........if there are differences then you say that they conflict.

If you ask three different people who witnessed an event then you'd get three different versions.

 

[cjd]

Stocky, we're talking about the return of god in all his glory, the end of the world and the judgement of mankind - not a pub brawl.

The bible is god's word and his word about such things need to be fairly definitive to be worth taking seriously.

Mattthew is quite clear on the issue and it's not something you'd expect him to get wrong, like the opening time of the synagogue on a Tuesday - you would expect him to think that JC's statements on such things was worth getting right wouldn't you?

And in any case, how can the word of god be wrong? Maybe it's all wrong? How can you be sure now that you think there is disagreement?

 

[cjd]

And in any case #2, both Matthew and Mark say the same thing is almost identical words anyway. (Because they are from the same single original source). If anything, Mark is clearer:

And he said to them, "I tell you the truth, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the kingdom of God come with power." Mark 9:1

The reason they agree is because because they're the same document copied by different authors. In fact Luke is the same too - the 3 gospels are called the synoptic gospels because they share the same single source.

"I tell you the truth, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the kingdom of God." Luke 9:27

So we have allegedly three witnesses saying exactly the same thing about the second coming. [It's a bit of a nonsense that it's a single unknown original author that three imaginary writers then copy from but I'm trying to be honest about the nonsense.]

And in any case #3, Luke - and probably the others afaik - go on to confirm it:

Luke 21:29-38 (New International Version)

29He told them this parable: "Look at the fig tree and all the trees. 30When they sprout leaves, you can see for yourselves and know that summer is near. 31Even so, when you see these things happening, you know that the kingdom of God is near.

32"I tell you the truth, this generation[a] will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened. 33Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away.

34"Be careful, or your hearts will be weighed down with dissipation, drunkenness and the anxieties of life, and that day will close on you unexpectedly like a trap. 35For it will come upon all those who live on the face of the whole earth. 36Be always on the watch, and pray that you may be able to escape all that is about to happen, and that you may be able to stand before the Son of Man."

Each day Jesus was teaching at the temple, and each evening he went out to spend the night on the hill called the Mount of Olives, and all the people came early in the morning to hear him at the temple.

 

[stockdam]

And in any case #2, both Matthew and Mark say the same thing is almost identical words anyway. (Because they are from the same single original source). If anything, Mark is clearer:

I'd suggest you read some commentaries/explanations of what you are quoting and then you may see that most of them do not agree with what you are saying. You are quite entitled to believe what you want but references to other verses back up my explanation whereas you are left with linking two verses that come after one another.

There is plenty of commentaries to read so why not email the authors and debate with them.

 

[cjd]

it's not necessary to argue with biblical scholars; the days of the bible being kept away from the proles for fear of them understanding it are long gone. It's written in simple words for simple people

The predictions about the second coming are littered throughout - it's the big promise, the only one that matters; follow me and I'll give you everlasting life.

it's there in black and white, clear as day. JC promised the second coming within the lifetime of some of the people standing with him.

In Luke, JC goes on and on about it - All perfectly in context - if you don't believe me just read the whole of chapter 21. He goes on about the fall of Jerusalem, the cosmic disasters, the glorious reappearance of the Lord and the kingdom of god on earth then he tells them again that before this generation has passed away all this will have taken place.

To read it any other way is simply attempting to change the clear meaning to fit the inconvenient fact that it didn't happen.

 

[stugster]

Well I've proven it.

For the past week I've been on these forums trying as hard as possible to put up a religious fight. The fight that takes the same view as christians, muslims, jews, etc. that "my way is correct and your way is wrong". I've stirred up a lot of grievance on the forums having just gone in saying "no, this is wrong" without any evidence. By shucks... it annoys some folks beyond belief, and rightly so!

Interesting that it's more the attitude that causes the reaction, rather than the specific view itself.

 

[Dawg]

I forgive you my son. Do three pale Marys, and wash well afterwards.

 

[blloyd]

I thought your attempts in the "muslim" thread were very half-hearted

 

[stugster]

Funny words in this months' Christian newsletter from the local church:

"Recent statistics show that 88% of the population seldom, if ever, go to church. This is a sobering figure if you believe that a person's ultimate success or failure in life depends on their response to Jesus Christ."

So in other words "If you don't get yer hairy airse intae church, you're going to be a failure in life". Nice.

 

[movietub]

Funny words in this months' Christian newsletter from the local church:

"Recent statistics show that 88% of the population seldom, if ever, go to church. This is a sobering figure if you believe that a person's ultimate success or failure in life depends on their response to Jesus Christ."

So in other words "If you don't get yer hairy airse intae church, you're going to be a failure in life". Nice.

I'm sorry, what's your point? Will sitting alone in a draughty stone monument talking to the characters or a 2000 year old fairytale not increase this years operating profit?

 

[bdw]

Did anyone see the David Attenborough program on TV on Monday night? Very interesting and to me compelling evidence of evolution.

As an aside this is an interesting Attenborough quote ...

When asked whether his observation of the natural world has given him faith in a creator, he generally responds with some version of this story, making reference to the Loa loa parasitic worm:

"My response is that when Creationists talk about God creating every individual species as a separate act, they always instance hummingbirds, or orchids, sunflowers and beautiful things. But I tend to think instead of a parasitic worm that is boring through the eye of a boy sitting on the bank of a river in West Africa, [a worm] that's going to make him blind. And [I ask them], 'Are you telling me that the God you believe in, who you also say is an all-merciful God, who cares for each one of us individually, are you saying that God created this worm that can live in no other way than in an innocent child's eyeball? Because that doesn't seem to me to coincide with a God who's full of mercy".

 

[stugster]

http://thescotsman.scotsman.com/news/I39m-a-convicted-killer-who.6612231.jp

I'm a convicted killer who found God in jail, admits reverend


"Please don't keep me in jail too long, I've just found God and want to do good!".

 

[cjd]

You'd be surprised at the number of highly religious people in prison cells. And an awful lot seems to 'find' god there too. It's an interesting phenomenon.

Of course the prison clergy have a trapped and often confused and frightened audience and a long time to get their message across to sometimes very simple-minded people, but it's still surprising to see thugs in cells with rosary beads and Qur'ans (not the same person with both of course.....)

 

[DCE]

Did anyone see the David Attenborough program on TV on Monday night? Very interesting and to me compelling evidence of evolution.

As an aside this is an interesting Attenborough quote ...

The Attenborough quote is from someone who does not have a clue with regards to the imperfection that humans suffer from, and why.

Adam and Eve were created with a perfect immune system, but due to their disobedience to God they lost it, so we are all suffering because of that fact.

They would have still been alive today, if they had not been.

(Romans 5:12) 12*That is why, just as through one man sin entered into the world and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men because they had all sinned

God is soon to bring about a time when there will be no more sickness, under his Kingdom arrangement, sickness & death will be done away with.

(Revelation 21:3-4) Look! The tent of God is with mankind, and he will reside with them, and they will be his peoples. And God himself will be with them. 4*And he will wipe out every tear from their eyes, and death will be no more, neither will mourning nor outcry nor pain be anymore. The former things have passed away.”

 

[LicensedToTrade]

The Attenborough quote is from someone who does not have a clue with regards to the imperfection that humans suffer from, and why.

Adam and Eve were created with a perfect immune system, but due to their disobedience to God they lost it, so we are all suffering because of that fact.

They would have still been alive today, if they had not been.

(Romans 5:12) 12*That is why, just as through one man sin entered into the world and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men because they had all sinned

God is soon to bring about a time when there will be no more sickness, under his Kingdom arrangement, sickness & death will be done away with.

(Revelation 21:3-4) Look! The tent of God is with mankind, and he will reside with them, and they will be his peoples. And God himself will be with them. 4*And he will wipe out every tear from their eyes, and death will be no more, neither will mourning nor outcry nor pain be anymore. The former things have passed away.”

Where will all the people live in this kindgom arrangement (and also what is the arrangement fee?) wouldn't the world become grossly overpopulated with the elimination of death? I'd hate to live forever, can't think of anything worse.