Adwords Vs SEO

[keljane1980]

Hi all.

I am not an internet marketing expert by any means...i know a tad thats it. I have been reading loads of articles on SEO and social book marketing which has helped me a lot.

The thing is as I am a new company i have magazines ringing me up all the time and telling me to advertise with them, I have google adword companies asking me to buy adword campaigns and then in the other ear i have my website developer telling me - No to magazines and No to adword campaigns - unless he does it.

I have gone and bought 2 google adword campaigns and I am kicking myself! They have just billed me 650 and it stats things i have not agreed to. Can i cancel? it states after 60 days. But i dont want that, they said a different figure to me.

I have also bought a SEO package worth £700, i know my website devloper is good - but whats the most effective? :|

 

[OldWelshGuy]

If you have bought them, then only you will be able to say which is the most effective. You need to ensure you have conversion tracking in place so you can keep track of where the sales are coming from.

 

[directmarketingadvice]

i have my website developer telling me - No to magazines and No to adword campaigns - unless he does it.

That's nice and impartial.

I have gone and bought 2 google adword campaigns and I am kicking myself!

What do you mean you "bought two campaigns"?

I have also bought a SEO package worth £700, i know my website devloper is good - but whats the most effective?

They're both effective when used in the right circumstances and done well.

(BTW, "done well" with adwords also means your website does a good job of converting visitors to sales/enquiries - traffic doesn't convert, websites do)

I have a question: who is your marketing manager?

It seems like you've given that job to yourself - the most important job in the company: bringing in money - but you don't seem to know what you're doing.

That's a recipe for disaster.

Steve

 

[Ali-v-8]

1st thing is are you on about a fixed monthly ppc campaign.
Nobody can force you to waste money.
And more important if you have not agreed to the campaign then you are not liable to pay.

you nee to check what was set out to be delivered or what you agreed on.

 

[keljane1980]

What do you mean you "bought two campaigns"?



They're both effective when used in the right circumstances and done well.

(BTW, "done well" with adwords also means your website does a good job of converting visitors to sales/enquiries - traffic doesn't convert, websites do)

I have a question: who is your marketing manager?

It seems like you've given that job to yourself - the most important job in the company: bringing in money - but you don't seem to know what you're doing.

That's a recipe for disaster.

Steve[/quote]

Yes i agree - I do ring my website/SEO developer frequently to discuss and explain stuff.

But green I maybe, but all i want to do is DO well, and I guess I am easily persuaded by sales people. I am learning the hard way, ill tell ya!

I have learned and am still learning so much, i find it all fascinating!

I just want some unbiased help thats all. Shoot me if thats a crime!

 

[directmarketingadvice]

I just want some unbiased help thats all. Shoot me if thats a crime!

It's not a "crime", but it's not something that's working out for you... or likely to start working out for you.

Someone once said:

"If you can tell the difference between good advice and bad advice, you don't need the advice. If you can't tell the difference between good advice and bad advice, you're in trouble."

I think that's sums up your situation.

Steve

 

[hootoo]

OK if you want to sell your products as soon as possible or you can earn lots of profits from it in a limited time, then you do not have time to go with SEO as it take a few months to see the results.

However, you can try both at the same time, they do not contradict each other, hope this helps.

 

[Annoying Donkey]

Hi all.

I am not an internet marketing expert by any means...i know a tad thats it. I have been reading loads of articles on SEO and social book marketing which has helped me a lot.

The thing is as I am a new company i have magazines ringing me up all the time and telling me to advertise with them, I have google adword companies asking me to buy adword campaigns and then in the other ear i have my website developer telling me - No to magazines and No to adword campaigns - unless he does it.

I have gone and bought 2 google adword campaigns and I am kicking myself! They have just billed me 650 and it stats things i have not agreed to. Can i cancel? it states after 60 days. But i dont want that, they said a different figure to me.

I have also bought a SEO package worth £700, i know my website devloper is good - but whats the most effective? :|

If your website developer is so good, why come on here asking what's the most effective? I'm perhaps biased, but the one size fits all package is rarely good value. You need to design a campaign around your business objectives and this may include all advertising media...

 

[bdw]

You have still not said what you mean by "Adword campaign".

Using Adwords on its own does not lock you into contracts you cannot walk away from. If you mean that you employed a company to do a campaign for you then consider the fact that in doing so you are paying them and paying Google. You are possibly also committing yourself to some sort of longer term contract.

If you want to use Adwords why not read up on it and try doing it yourself? It's not rocket science and it will save you a lot of money. There is a massive amount of information on this on the Google Adwords website and elsewhere on the Internet. What you have spent could already have bought you a lot of DIY Adwords traffic.

 

[keljane1980]

Hi

I received a phonecall 2 days ago from search rank results, a company guaranteed to get you at the top of listings. Bla bla.

I bought two adword campaigns - maternity clothes online and organic maternity. Yes, I am at the top, but i just feel i have rushed into without preparation. They have charged me 650 inc Vat, for the maternity clothes online for 3 months.

I know SEO takes a while, but obviously i wanted to see some instantanious results now!

I also advertise in Baby Mag, and do competitions on social bookmarking sites. I am not stupid, just wanted some good advice from you. I cant believe how much money i have spent.

Thanks again

K

 

[OldWelshGuy]

Hi

I received a phonecall 2 days ago from search rank results, a company guaranteed to get you at the top of listings. Bla bla.

I bought two adword campaigns - maternity clothes online and organic maternity. Yes, I am at the top, but i just feel i have rushed into without preparation. They have charged me 650 inc Vat, for the maternity clothes online for 3 months.

I know SEO takes a while, but obviously i wanted to see some instantanious results now!

I also advertise in Baby Mag, and do competitions on social bookmarking sites. I am not stupid, just wanted some good advice from you. I cant believe how much money i have spent.

Thanks again

K

Hi K,

Most new businesses make mistakes by bowing to high pressure sales tactics. The question now is what I stated in my original reply.
1. have you got conversion tracking in your adwords campaign? I would hazzard a guess and say no, as this company are usign their own adwords account to prevent you from seeing what they are spending.

This being the case you need to ensure you have accurate tracking in place. I would recommend google analytics and/or clicky.

You MUST measure your conversion sources, as without this you don't know what is working for you.

There have been some harsh comments here, maybe people should try not to be so judgemental, we are allguilty of it sometimes though

All I can say is that you are where you are, you have overcommitted, and the ONLY risk now is that the traffic doesn't give an ROI and ends up actually costing you money.

If you only do 1 thing today, make sure it is get some analytics tracking in place.

 

[Annoying Donkey]

Indeed your PPC ads do show for 'maternity clothes online' and 'organic maternity', but who searches on those terms? You don't show up for 'maternity clothes' or 'maternity clothes grimsby' - apart from some directory entries...

 

[Annoying Donkey]

There is tracking code on the site (GA), but should be moved to the end of the source. Hope my comments are not taken as judgemental - they're not intended as such

 

[OldWelshGuy]

Sometimes we treat new members as if they are long standing members, and as a result we can scare them off and come across wrong, we are all guilty of it.

Thanks for checking on the GA, so what the OP needs to do then is take a look at this, and keep track of visitors from her PPC phrases.

 

[keljane1980]

Hi guys

Thanks so much for advice and comments.

I know i have been stupid.

So, what i need to do now is obtain google analytics and assess/analyse stats.

What else could i be doing?

I did get an excellent blog post from here on 101 tips for SEO - which i have started wading through.

What i shall do is put it down to experience. I have now paid the money, so thats that! I can't get it back, ive tried!

I want to cry!

 

[Tom McClelland]

You can set up your own adwords campaign for peanuts and play about with it. Costs are totally within your own control and you'll learn a bit about what works and what doesn't. Remember, it is only any use bringing visitors to your site if they buy something when they get there.

If you have a little campaign set up and going (with analytics, of course) then it may well be worth letting someone like Steve Gibson from here run their eyes over it for a monthly retainer fee. But how cost-effective professional help is likely to be depends on your monthly advertising budget.

I've developed a rule to deal with pushy telephone sales of advertising media. I tell them that they have to guarantee that their product will be more effective in terms of bringing customers to my website than my current adwords spend. Most of them, when you analyse it, are selling very little and asking a lot of money for it. Things like trade directories which are "sent to tens of thousands of businesses" tend to be utterly worthless and very expensive. In fact it is very difficult these days IMHO for any kind of print media to compete with correctly targeted internet PPC advertising or SEO.

 

[directmarketingadvice]

If you want to use Adwords why not read up on it and try doing it yourself?

I agree 100%.

The best way to take control of your marketing is to educate yourself about how the different things work.

Buy "Adwords for Dummies" and read it. It's a very good book and it'll also give you a grounding in how to think about online marketing (not just with adwords).

And that's something you really need.

And, because it's a book and it's not trying to sell you something. It's trustworthy.

Part of your problem is that some of your "advisers" have a vested interest in getting you to make certain choices.

i.e. you choose one way, they make money. You choose the other way, they don't.

Steve

 

[thementor]

I use google adsense, but have just been given a £75.00 voucher to try out a google adwords campaign, so am going to give it a go.

A business friend of mine rang me up very excitedly the other week to tell me she had signed-up with a company that promised to get her to a top position if she used their service. And do you know what...she had go to number 1 as promised. After about a week, she was contacted and asked to see how they were doing with the SEO and was asked to type in the name of the service as they instructed and there she was....right at the top.

Anyway, after a bit more of a chat I found out that they had simply asked her to type in the name of her service and the location. Obviously, she would appear at the top of the search as it would be unlikely there was anyone else with the same (or similar) service at that location.

When I pointed this out she wasn't too pleased with me as she was utterly convinced they had worked their magic and got her to number one.....or am I being sceptical?

 

[Tom McClelland]

A business friend of mine rang me up very excitedly the other week to tell me she had signed-up with a company that promised to get her to a top position if she used their service. And do you know what...she had go to number 1 as promised. After about a week, she was contacted and asked to see how they were doing with the SEO and was asked to type in the name of the service as they instructed and there she was....right at the top.

Anyway, after a bit more of a chat I found out that they had simply asked her to type in the name of her service and the location. Obviously, she would appear at the top of the search as it would be unlikely there was anyone else with the same (or similar) service at that location.

When I pointed this out she wasn't too pleased with me as she was utterly convinced they had worked their magic and got her to number one.....or am I being sceptical?

Did she try that same test *before* buying the SEO service?

 

[thementor]

I didn't like to probe too much as she seemed very excited about the results and had a fair bit of money on their 'promise'. I think I might give her a ring and see how she's doing now...or maybe type in a search term and see where she appears now.

 

[Searcher]

As someone about to embark on their first adwords campaign, this is all very useful information. Thanks to all.

I will buy the Adwords for Dummies, but in the meantime I'd like to ask a question (hope you don't mind me hijacking your thread keljane). I don't understand how to make campaigns specific to a geographic area, town etc. For example, if I wanted to sell shirts to someone in Leeds, would the potential buyer have to request "shirt & Leeds" ? Or is there a more sinister/sneaky way that Google knows where the potential buyer lives ?

 

[directmarketingadvice]

As someone about to embark on their first adwords campaign, this is all very useful information. Thanks to all.

I will buy the Adwords for Dummies, but in the meantime I'd like to ask a question (hope you don't mind me hijacking your thread keljane). I don't understand how to make campaigns specific to a geographic area, town etc. For example, if I wanted to sell shirts to someone in Leeds, would the potential buyer have to request "shirt & Leeds" ? Or is there a more sinister/sneaky way that Google knows where the potential buyer lives ?

You can set the campaign to only run in a geographic location such as with x miles from a particular postcode.

It's not 100% accurate, but it's your best option.

And you can combine that with a nationwide campaign that has keywords that mention Leeds - e.g. "shirts leeds".

Though, if you're not selling football shirts, you'll want to have -football as a negative keyword.

(you'll learn about this in the book)

Steve

 

[Searcher]

Steve, have sent you a pm.

 

[AngelSEO]

Hi all.
I have magazines ringing me up all the time and telling me to advertise with them

Remeber with magazine adverts its harder to track what is working.

Adwords is a great way to get your business started and at the top of the listings, but depending on your business and target market, it can be costly. And i'd advise you do it yourself, its not to difficult to learn and there are lots of help guides.

£700 for SEO sounds good, just make sure you know what they are doing and how many hours you are getting.

 

[thementor]

Has anyone used adsense?

I've been on that system for a while now and found it to be good value for money, in the sense that I don't pay anything.

It differs from Adwords in that advertisers appear on your own site when their content is relevant to your site. When a visitor 'clicks' through it generates income. Have I got that right ?

 

[bdw]

Has anyone used adsense?

That's off topic and for another thread.

 

[thementor]

Yes, you're right. Smacked wrist taken.

However, going back on topic, when I first started looking around for SEO I came across this site which gives a full report and recommendations and for FREE.

It is called the National B2B centre and from my experience it is very impartial and will give you all the information you need to SEO your site.

If you can't DIY then you can pass this info onto your webmaster, but I would recommend giving it a go.

As I'm not able to link to a web address, you can type 'national b2b centre' into a search engine.

Hope it helps.

 

[bdw]

Mentor that's a good website so I will offer the link to it as it is essentially a non profit.

http://www.nb2bc.co.uk

 

[thementor]

Thank you for agreeing it's a good site. I'm always a bit wary about directing people to a non-profit, govt or authority backed, non-profit making site as it may take away work from small SEO businesses. We're all trying to make a living and when people give free advice what's the point in paying for it !

 

[MASSEY]

I can't really see why you would pay some one to create Adwords campaigns, all the info is there for you to see, it's all about finding good keywords,

I'm currently out bidding every one this month for top keywords,

Maybe I will chAnge my opinion after this month

 

[Tom McClelland]

I can't really see why you would pay some one to create Adwords campaigns, all the info is there for you to see, it's all about finding good keywords,

I'm currently out bidding every one this month for top keywords,

Maybe I will chAnge my opinion after this month

I thought that too, and we ran our own campaign for a couple of years. But when we engaged a professional (Steve Gibson) to take a look at the campaign he both saved us money *and* increased the clicks and conversions that we were getting. A very good investment.

 

[MASSEY]

I thought that too, and we ran our own campaign for a couple of years. But when we engaged a professional (Steve Gibson) to take a look at the campaign he both saved us money *and* increased the clicks and conversions that we were getting. A very good investment.

For my ad , I have the main phrase and also the phrase is the URL so out of all of them and being higher than the other ads, mine has the best click potential,

some one from
google is phoning me friday they might reveal certain things to me which change my mind on doing my own,

 

[Tom McClelland]

For my ad , I have the main phrase and also the phrase is the URL so out of all of them and being higher than the other ads, mine has the best click potential,

some one from
google is phoning me friday they might reveal certain things to me which change my mind on doing my own,

How do you know that you couldn't get the same results at a lower cost?
How do you know that there aren't other phrases that would reward you with good conversions?
Are you filtering landings from different keywords to make sure that you're not paying cpc charges for types of visitors who aren't actually interested in the product that you sell?
Have you conducted objectively measured split tests to see if you can make your landing pages better at converting visitors to sales?

A professional is used to asking and answering these questions efficiently.

 

[wevet]

Having achieved the holy grail of Page 1 position 1 Google organic listing I can give you my estimation of the value of this position:

We get 32 visits via adwords to 1 visit via organic listings. The conversion rate is about the same whether the visitor comes via organic or adwords.

The particular site is selling small ticket individual sales the organic position is of minimal value.

My advice is before spending money on SEO work figure out what traffic you expect should you attain the No. 1 position - will there be a decent return on your investment.

 

[Annoying Donkey]

We get 32 visits via adwords to 1 visit via organic listings. The conversion rate is about the same whether the visitor comes via organic or adwords.

I would say that is extremely unusual...

Of the two websites mentioned in your profile, one cannot be found, the other is not no 1 in the listings, at least not for obvious keywords and is not found in the first 50 entries for a specific search...

So care to inform us which niche this is?

 

[Tom McClelland]

Having achieved the holy grail of Page 1 position 1 Google organic listing I can give you my estimation of the value of this position:

We get 32 visits via adwords to 1 visit via organic listings. The conversion rate is about the same whether the visitor comes via organic or adwords.

The particular site is selling small ticket individual sales the organic position is of minimal value.

My advice is before spending money on SEO work figure out what traffic you expect should you attain the No. 1 position - will there be a decent return on your investment.

On the face of it that doesn't match our experience. We're not near number 1 organically for most of our highly competitive keywords but we still get more than 1 in 30 coming from organic compared with our PPC campaigns.

What search term are you number #1 for?

 

[Ali-v-8]

You must have this wrong. :|

We get 32 visits via adwords to 1 visit via organic listings. The conversion rate is about the same whether the visitor comes via organic or adwords.

 

Having achieved the holy grail of Page 1 position 1 Google organic listing I can give you my estimation of the value of this position:

We get 32 visits via adwords to 1 visit via organic listings. The conversion rate is about the same whether the visitor comes via organic or adwords.

The particular site is selling small ticket individual sales the organic position is of minimal value.

My advice is before spending money on SEO work figure out what traffic you expect should you attain the No. 1 position - will there be a decent return on your investment.

whats the product.? Never heard of such a thing.:|

Earl

 

[wevet]

I would say that is extremely unusual...

Of the two websites mentioned in your profile, one cannot be found, the other is not no 1 in the listings, at least not for obvious keywords and is not found in the first 50 entries for a specific search...

So care to inform us which niche this is?

The website(not in my profile) is Icanhire.com

This is a van rental operation in London:
The most searched terms are:

van hire London
and London van hire

We spend around 20 days a month on page 1 the balance on page 2

 

[Ali-v-8]

Classic case of not disabling your customisation.
You are not organic page one, position one.
You just think you are because of customisation.

Thats why you have the wrong stats.

The website(not in my profile) is Icanhire.com

This is a van rental operation in London:
The most searched terms are:

van hire London
and London van hire

We spend around 20 days a month on page 1 the balance on page 2