0870 takes a beating

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Aug 2, 2005
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From Yahoo news:

LONDON (Reuters) - Consumers are oblivious to the exorbitant costs they incur when phoning some customer service departments and help-lines, a survey has shown.

Which? asked around 1,000 people how much they thought they would be charged for dialling so-called revenue-sharing phone codes with prefixes like 0870 or 0845.

Most answered incorrectly or did not know the costs involved in calling 0870 -- one of the most expensive numbers.

Organisations that use 0845, 0844 and the higher-charging 0870 and 0871 numbers can share revenues from calls with phone service providers -- resulting in hugely inflated costs.

A 10-minute daytime call from a BT landline to a geographic number (starting with 01 or 02) could cost as little as 3 pence, but the same call could cost about 80 pence to an 0870 number.

Consumers spend more than 300 million pounds a year dialling 0871 numbers, according to premium-rate regulator Icstis.

Customers sometimes have to call a revenue-sharing number even to complain about a problem of a company's own making. And some banks, including Alliance and Leicester and Lloyds TSB, use 0870 lines to give advice to people with debt problems.

The Department for Work and Pensions, meanwhile, made 268,000 pounds last year from 0845 hotlines to advise those on low incomes about benefit and winter fuel payments.

Researchers also found that many companies are boosting profits by leaving customers waiting for calls to be answered.

It called help-lines run by eight broadband companies, five energy firms and five government agencies and found energy companies -- which use 0845 numbers -- had the longest waiting times, at an average 3-1/2 minutes.

Utility firm npower was the worst culprit, keeping researchers waiting an average of seven minutes -- a call that would cost 24 pence from a BT landline, but up to 1.05 pounds on a mobile phone.

Neil Fowler, editor of Which?, said: "Revenue-sharing is a stealth tax of the worst kind.

"Tales of customers hanging on for ages at huge expense when they are trying to place an order -- or even make a complaint -- are numerous.

"Where once businesses paid to look after customers, it now seems that customers must pay for the privilege of businesses looking after them."

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/rtrs/20070607/tuk-uk-britain-phone-fa6b408.html
 
Don't quite follow that :|

OK, I fully understand the revenue sharing on the 0870, but that's being phased out next January anyway.

I don't know of any revenue sharing schemes for 0845, as many companies actually have to contribute towards an incoming call in order to keep the call costs down for their customers.

It is always a local call rate, no matter where they call from.

I may be wrong, but I didn't think that sharing worked for 0845

However, it is very interesting to learn that people don't know the difference.

JB
 
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Aaah JB welcome to the murky world of revenue sharing!

Any call across the network charged per minute is pure profit based on the fact the network is already there so the operators need to take their total costs and profit divide by the number of minutes and then make sure the cost per minute is enough to cover this.

So anyone that says, I can make people spend more time on the phone, is in line for a share.

The money paid to 0845 users higher up the chain with the big minutes is generaly up to 1p a minute compared to over 2p on 0870 which is why many companies lower in the chain charge for this service.

However it is NOT true to say 0870 is a higher rate to 0844.

At the weekend, 0844 is still 5p per minute (in the same way 0871 is 10p per minute) but 0870 does follow the time bandings which means it is only 2p (may have changed since I was in the game) after 6pm on a Friday night.
 
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Aaah JB welcome to the murky world of revenue sharing!

Any call across the network charged per minute is pure profit based on the fact the network is already there so the operators need to take their total costs and profit divide by the number of minutes and then make sure the cost per minute is enough to cover this.

So anyone that says, I can make people spend more time on the phone, is in line for a share.

The money paid to 0845 users higher up the chain with the big minutes is generaly up to 1p a minute compared to over 2p on 0870 which is why many companies lower in the chain charge for this service.

I stand corrected :)

So why is a national rate call more expensive than a local rate if the network doesn't cost anything to run?

JB
 
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well as I say the costs are not dependent entirely on the usage but more use does mean more to go wrong, customer service costs etc.

Back in the day of per minute charging (very large no. are on all inclusive packages) I guess it just seemed fair plus you probably had more exchanges connecting the long distance calls. In the very early days when numbers were given as say London 2321 or whatever and a lady connected a wire between the two ports long distance did cost more as they each could only "connect" you to a limited number of numbers.
 
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Low Call Rate: 0845
I'm confused, this is from a web site of a business I deal with. Can someone enlighten me?
 
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This is the reason why your bank will happily leave you on hold for 20 minutes and Virgin Media and hour or more if they can get away with it!

Martin
 
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Back in the days (a term I use to avoid given an exact date) when calls were charge as local if they started and finished in your or your neighbouring STD code (Subscriber Trunk Dialling) they were local. The fact that they may well have been routed hundreds of miles out if the network needed to is not relevant.

So yes you had national and local rate and 0845 at the time meant that wherever you started and finished the call you would only pay local rate and at that time is was equal to the local and national rate. There was no difference between a Londoner calling an 0141 number and a Londoner calling and 0870 for instance.
 
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0845 is generally classed at 'lo call' rate now.
0870 is classed at national rate.

Calls to 084 and 087 numbers are always more expensive than calls to 01 or 02 starting numbers.

Very few networks charge less for a call to your neighbor’s landline than a call to a landline at the other end of the UK. They're all landlines, and charged at the same rates. 0845 and 0870 numbers used to be a good idea, but call costs have fallen for calls to 'normal' numbers while they've remained at pretty much the same rates for 0845 and 0870.


A user on a call plan which includes 'free local and national calls' is very likely to not include calls to 0845 and 0870 numbers; mobiles with minute packages also are unlikely to include them.


saynoto0870.com is good place to see if alternative numbers are available.
 
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I need clarification.

When I started my business I got an 0870 number for the following reasons:

1) It was a portable number that I can overlay any landline number so when we move the number remains the same.
2) Most of our customers are calling from all over the UK and will pay national rate charges anyway so the 0870 number (being a national rate number) would not cost them any more.

I did not have a deal where I make an income from these numbers. I understand that people calling from mobiles will pay and not get free calls on their phone deals but most of our customers call from offices and not mobiles so should not be a problem.

Now there is a massive hoo-haa about 'expensive' 0870 numbers which I believe is down to certain organisations having 0870 numbers on customer care lines and whom receive an income from these numbers - something which I disagree with of course.

So am I mis-guided? Am I wrong in my presumptions? Or have things changed over the last 3 years that I am not aware of?

Please enlighten me.

Clem.
 
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Things have changed Clem, you will be lumped in with the others now I am afraid. That is why I call your mobile as I have inclusive mobile calls to mobiles which on my contract equates to 3p per minute but it would cost me 8p per minute to call your office.

EVERYONE calling your office is paying 8p per minute and there is probably no capping either when some business packages cap at say 10p per call.

Now though, with VOIP you can port your old number easily if you need to move.
 
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I see what you say Adam but you still haven't really answered my question.

Let me put it this way:

If a customer called my from his landline from the other end of the country how much would he pay per minute for that call if it were just a normal landline phone number?

If the same customer made the same call but called an 0870 number how much would he pay per minute for that call?

I am under the impression that is should be the same rate per minute but the only difference now is that I am going to get charged to have this number and will pay a per-minute rate for the pleasure?

Clem.
 
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Okay I thought I did but to make it clear.

London to Glasgow at STANDARD BT rates 3p per minute, many business lines will cap this at 10p. All inclusive packages (such as BT option 3, Talk Talk, Homecall etc there is no charge. Mobile phone users calls again included in their package.

0870 - 8p per minute during the day from a landline. No capping, no using inclusive minutes. Mobile callers pay at least 10p per minute.
 
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Yes, but apparantly there is some money to be made from them if the call volume is big enough
Think dial-up internet service providers; all their access numbers were 0845 and successful ones would generate many millions of connection minutes every month which, with the right deal, would be six (or higher) figure incomes. If the carrier argued, you just threatened to take the traffic to a rival provider ... less prevalent in these days of cheap broadband but it's still good money for those in the game.
 
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That woul dbe nice Stu, but unfortunately I originally contracted with Telewest and they were great. Since being SOLD to Virgin I have experienced nothing but problems and their Ts&Cs leave a lot to be desired.

When I think, I used to idolise Branson. he used to have a name to be proud of. Now I think he is just another money grabber.
 
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If the fault is with the Company itself, and you're calling them, I believe you should be fully entitled to claim the cost of the calls incurred to you back against the company.

And pigs might fly.

The real fault is with OFCOM, which is about as much use in protecting the public from the scammers of the telecoms world as a chocolate fireguard.

But don't expect much change. 0870 numbers are just like McStalin's stealth taxes - they are not really quite what they appear to be, and you will feel the difference in your wallet later. So this sort of scam starts at the the very top, as long as the great British public are prepared to tolerate it.

Anyway rant over, or I'll be onto Independence for England!
 
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Yes, first call it to check it is not in use, then call Opal Telecom Limited who is the supplier. I have an Opal account if needed but they should set one up for you.

Bare in mind 0845 is still not included in inclusive call packages so can be comparatively expensive.
 
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It is indeed an Opal number but if you call it you'll find that it rings so it is in use.
 
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I rang Scottish Hydro today using the number on the front of the bill as they say:

"Please pone us using the number on the front of this notice. We prefer you to phone rather than write because it's quicker, more direct and easier for us...."

They forgot to add AND IT'S A PREMIUM RATE CALL.

Doesn't say that on the bill. Doesn't say that when you are out on hold. The operators don't tell you either. I asked the adviser and she had to check with her supervisor.

Now, if a company wants to use a premium rate, fair enough - I have the choice of whether or not to use it AS LONG AS I am aware of it - in this case I wasn't made aware and as far as I'm concerned, it's unethical :mad:

Phew - I feel better now....how fortunate that 10 minutes after the call I find this thread! :D
 
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