New Message Alert-Suggestion To Increase Visits

[The Resolver]

At present email alerts to new messages on watched threads contain the wording of the new message. What do people think about just providing the link alone and thus increasing forum visits/activity?

 

[Ozzy]

From my perspective yes it would encourage returning to site, and I also think it would improve the returning of people who post a question and don't come back after. Currently they get an email with a reply and many likely assume that is the one and only reply, and don't come back to see the others.

 

[fisicx]

Does the message have a ‘there may be more replies’ bit?

Or can you send an alert each time there is a new reply?

 

[Ozzy]

Does the message have a ‘there may be more replies’ bit?

Yep, but you know people don't read.

Or can you send an alert each time there is a new reply?

No, not possible - and probably even more annoying to the recipient, and defeats the purpose of a forum. Might as well go back to a newsgroup instead

 

[fisicx]

Then just send the link in the email. That way they will return to the forum and see all the replies.

Have you also considered push notifications?

Are phones now the predominant device?

 

[Ozzy]

Are phones now the predominant device?

Surprisingly not, it's swung the other way in recent months with about 75% of site users on desktop, which I am surprised by.

Have you also considered push notifications?

Yes, it's on the table as soon as Apple catch up.

 

[Clinton]

Surprisingly not, it's swung the other way in recent months with about 75% of site users on desktop, which I am surprised by.

Yes, it's on the table as soon as Apple catch up.

I've been saying for years that the emphasis on mobiles was overdone. There was a time mobile use was increasing, yes but it was starting from a 0 base.

Mobile first was a stupid fad pushed by an industry that wanted businesses to spend money on revamping their sites.

There will be some types of sites that are more likely to be used by people on mobiles, of course, but most business sites (including mine) have always been predominantly desktop. Try reading my 10,000 word articles on a mobile and you'll end up flushing that useless 2 inch screen piece of technology sh*t down the toilet,

people who post a question and don't come back after.

Ban their asses ...and their IPs (we are aware you know how to do this!)

 

[Ozzy]

/me ponders calling @Clinton to offer him position as Head of Marketing for UKBF ?

 

[fisicx]

Surprisingly not, it's swung the other way in recent months with about 75% of site users on desktop, which I am surprised by.

The next question is: how many of that 75% are existing users? Are all the young and thrusting new members you are targeting also using a desktop?

I disagree with Clinton about the mobile first being a fad. Lifestyle sites have far more mobile (phone and tablet) usage than desktop. Same with most social sites. Yes desktop for business sites are is going to be predominate but for everything else it's mobile. Just look at people on the train, in pubs and cafes, socialising or relaxing at home. All using mobile devices.

 

[Clinton]

I disagree with Clinton about the mobile first being a fad. Lifestyle sites have far more mobile (phone and tablet) usage than desktop.

The whole world ain't sh*tTok. My point was about percentage of people visiting on mobiles increasing on business websites (even B2B). I do not see that any more. Haven't seen it for many, many years, a decade even!

But I'm sure there are advocates preaching that it'll increase to 100% of visitors, then 200%, then who know? The sky's the limit.

And that's just existing mobile users. When all those who don't have mobiles realise their backsides are too round and they need a flat device in one pocket to reshape their rear, the numbers can only go up further!

For the record, I have nothing against responsive design. But it is bloody annoying to visit, using a laptop, business websites seemingly designed exclusively for mobile use.

UKBF isn't one of them which is the only reason I come here!

 

[StevensOnln1]

At present email alerts to new messages on watched threads contain the wording of the new message. What do people think about just providing the link alone and thus increasing forum visits/activity?

This was tried before. I find emails that want you to click/login without telling you what the message is about really annoying/off-putting. It's the same for emails that just give you the first few lines and require you to click through to see the rest.

I personally won't click a link in an email to read something unless the email itself has already grabbed my attention.

Edit: If you go down this route, could you make it an option so the user can choose to receive the reply to watched thread rather than just a link, if the forum software will allow this?

 

[Newchodge]

people who post a question and don't come back

The worst are those who do come back until they get the answer they wanted in the first place, having argued with or ignored all other advice along the way.

 

[fisicx]

I've just looked at my preferences and have no idea how to change the settings so I get emails. There is something about watching threads but not even sure what that means.

 

[fisicx]

For the record, I have nothing against responsive design. But it is bloody annoying to visit, using a laptop, business websites seemingly designed exclusively for mobile use.

Anyone who builds a site like that deserves to fail in every possible way. As an aside, we were out for lunch yesterday and tried looking up the details of a local attraction. The site was almost impossible to use. Apart from the endless adverts there were popups and requests to follow and sign up and all sorts of junk. A really awful site. And one of the reasons why I'm wary of clicking on things these days. I stick with sites I know and trust.

 

[The Byre]

The worst are those who do come back until they get the answer they wanted in the first place, having argued with or ignored all other advice along the way.

THIS!

I am here because I want to (a) help people and (b) because I want to learn what makes the average owner of an SME tick - what their aspirations and problems are. I soon realised that most people need to learn to run a business BEFORE they try to run a business - and not afterwards!

We have one poster who has spent the past couple of years trying to pull a fast one here and there and bodge situations and when the proverbial hits the fan, he posts a one-sided version of his misery and when the answers do not suit what he wants to hear, posts the whole thing again in a new thread, but this time changing things to put a new slant on things. Rinse and repeat until the 'right' answer appears!

There will be several threads like this on the go at any one time. "I can't pay my debts!" "I signed a contract that I had not read." "I signed a contract making me responsible and now they are making me responsible!" "Nobody wants what I am selling!" "I've got this great idea!" "How do I get funding - i.e. free money?" "My business partner has thrown me out of the building and changed the locks and I was always so nice to him!" "My Wix website is not on page one." "What's my company worth!"

(The answers are - Don't incur debt. Learn to read. Grow a pair! Sell something else! So have I. Get a job. Look in the mirror. Go to a professional. Two shillings and sixpence.)

 

[Daybooks]

….

There will be several threads like this on the go at any one time. "I can't pay my debts!" "I signed a contract that I had not read." "I signed a contract making me responsible and now they are making me responsible!" "Nobody wants what I am selling!" "I've got this great idea!" "How do I get funding - i.e. free money?" "My business partner has thrown me out of the building and changed the locks and I was always so nice to him!" "My Wix website is not on page one." "What's my company worth!"

….

They do provide entertainment though ?.

 

[UKSBD]

Hardly any of the links work for me when I receive a notification about a watched thread.

It could be the way I have my email client set up, but it appears a closing bracket is included from somewhere

This is an example of the link I receive - http://url9277.ukbusinessforums.co....GNlr5fW02u2YlXwRIj8u3P0qz1JRY5MPlZE2JXg-3D-3D

 

[Clinton]

They do provide entertainment though ?.

I'm not amused. They are as annoying as hell.

There will be several threads like this on the go at any one time.
"I can't pay my debts!"
"I signed a contract that I had not read."
"I signed a contract making me responsible and now they are making me responsible!"
"Nobody wants what I am selling!"
"I've got this great idea!"
"How do I get funding - i.e. free money?"
"My business partner has thrown me out of the building and changed the locks and I was always so nice to him!"
"My Wix website is not on page one."
"What's my company worth!"

That's a fantastic summary of the newbie posts that are not likely to go anywhere, not likely to result in answers that the newbie likes, not going to result in a satisfied newbie who decides to stick around.

I'll add:

• My partner is a right b*tch and she's being mean to me.
• My partner is not pulling his/her weight.
• I'm pregnant and my business partner is not agreeing to me taking the next six years off.
• I'm a single mum and .... and pretty much anything that follows from that kind of opening!
  (and other such whines, whinges, emotional support pleas etc that are more suited to FaecesBook)
• I want a highly skilled marketer but I'll pay based only on performance.
• I have a major legal / tax problem but I'm too tight to pay a professional.

Maybe @Ozzy can put together some REQUIRED READING stickies with a warning to newbies to RTFM before posting (especially if they have one of the above situations that they want to discuss in the forum).

/me ponders calling @Clinton to offer him position as Head of Marketing for UKBF ?

When can I start? You don't need to pay a salary or anything, I'll do it for free.

 

[Daybooks]

I'm not amused. They are as annoying as hell.

We don’t have to read them nor reply to them. I’ll stop posting them then ?.

 

[Mark T Jones]

I'm not amused. They are as annoying as hell.

Is it sunny in Essex today?

They are the reality of life. And the reason why there will always be crooked salesmen to feed off them.

Admittedly it's annoying when you put time into giving a constructive answer only dismissed in favour of someone who Says what they want to hear. These days I usually keep responses minimal until I see someone is engaged.

One of the interesting newbie trend is the nice ones, who come along with detailed constructive answers, before slowly giving up and descending into 'what does the contract say?'

 

[Mark T Jones]

The worst are those who do come back until they get the answer they wanted in the first place, having argued with or ignored all other advice along the way.

You've missed bits

Start thread asking complex questions

Dismiss any response that suggests the need to do work/research

Overly thank anyone who gives a 'nice' response (as punishment to those who didn't say what you wanted to hear)

Counter-attack anyone whose answer you don't like

Start new thread on how unfriendly the site is, and claiming to have solved the problem with some string and glue.

 

[Mark T Jones]

Maybe @Ozzy can put together some REQUIRED READING stickies with a warning to newbies to RTFM before posting (especially if they have one of the above situations that they want to discuss in the forum).

Without knowing the technical practicalities, I've often thought that there should be a 'quick answer' facility on here, either by way of FAQs or easily accessible links to articles (I know Ozzy is working on the articles, I currently struggle to find the ones I wrote, let alone others on common topics)

 

[fisicx]

There has been a lot of discussion behind the scenes about dropping links to the appropriate guides in threads. For example, if a thread is created asking about business registration there will be a link to the UKBF guide to business registration. I think this is still on the todo list.

That being said, the future focus of UKBF isn’t the forum. The focus is on the guides, advice and help coupled with membership benefits (if I understood @Ozzy correctly).

 

[Ozzy]

For example, if a thread is created asking about business registration there will be a link to the UKBF guide to business registration.

Maybe @Ozzy can put together some REQUIRED READING stickies with a warning to newbies to RTFM before posting

This is what we hope the tagging when creating threads, and some Google magic, will be able to help us to put in place. So that any repeated questions can help point the person towards a detailed guide, ideally delivered in both written, audio and video to cover all bases.

Stickies aren't viable as the whole first and second page of forum posts would be stickies ? but something that reads the question and gives suggestions first, that's the goal.

 

[Lucan Unlordly]

On the Mobile v Desktop debate. We run a 15 column database with multiple filtering opportunities and get just one or two requests a year to make it mobile friendly. Users tell us that they can do everything they want by using zoom.

 

[Clinton]

I'm not too keen on all these mobile users.

So I've got websites that I haven't been bothered to make responsive yet.

Those people accessing my sites on mobiles can jolly well use a desktop like normal people instead of using a talking device for trying to read articles. Weirdos!

My site, my rules. Don't like them? Go elsewhere!

As a site owner you only need to play the game of ducking and diving and doing whatever you think will work in Google - and going https and going mobile friendly and going whatever else - if you are desperate for more visitors, more sales, more profit, growing your business.

Remove those shackles and you can start focusing on more important things. Your visitors will have to adapt to how you want to work rather than the other way around.

 

[thetiger2015]

Remove those shackles and you can start focusing on more important things. Your visitors will have to adapt to how you want to work rather than the other way around.

Well...surely a website should be adaptable to most devices? You don't have to make it mobile only, you just have to make it as adaptable as possible to the widest range of devices.

UKBF is a bit different to things like ecommerce sites. The users are likely already at a laptop, doing some work, with multiple tabs open. Perhaps in the evening, more mobile visitors are online?

My partner doesn't have a laptop. She uses her phone, for everything. If she visits a website that needs you to pinch and zoom, she doesn't bother with it. If we're out and about, looking for a nice restaurant, it better be mobile optimised or we probably won't bother. We want to see the menu and opening times, we don't want to mess about scrolling and pinching and tapping on things. That's rubbish UX and is a poor touch point for your business.

Actually, my 80 year old mother also only uses an iphone. She got rid of her laptop years ago, she does everything on her phone. She can show her friends things then, she's not going to carry a laptop round to the coffee shop to show people pictures of her knitting is she?

 

[Newchodge]

We want to see the menu and opening times, we don't want to mess about scrolling and pinching and tapping on things.

How on earth can you see a menu (well enough to reas it) on a phone screen without scrolling and pinching and tapping things?

 

[Ozzy]

I'm on the side of catering for mobile because that is where most of our target and future audience are; and as a business you need to make yourself easily accessible to who you want to work with.

My daughter, as an example, has run her own business for approaching four years now and she has done so without ever previously needing a computer or laptop working entirely from her mobile for her accounts, client comms, ordering from suppliers, everything. Only in the past few months has she needed to use a laptop because she has started to need to draft policies and procedures to get a licence to expand her business (local authority needs), and typing these up on a mobile wasn't viable. Meeting many other teen and early twenties business owners at our events, this isn't unique and many do only use mobiles to run their businesses. So if they are a potential client then not catering for that could alienate them, but if they are not then no need to adapt no worries.

How on earth can you see a menu

Technical term - adaptive CSS. Real world term, making the text scale effectively for the mobile screen. I struggle to read text messages on my mobile without my glasses, but never had an issue reading a restaurant menu as they usually do a really good job of making it bold and easy to read.

 

[Newchodge]

I'm on the side of catering for mobile because that is where most of our target and future audience are; and as a business you need to make yourself easily accessible to who you want to work with.

My daughter, as an example, has run her own business for approaching four years now and she has done so without ever previously needing a computer or laptop working entirely from her mobile for her accounts, client comms, ordering from suppliers, everything. Only in the past few months has she needed to use a laptop because she has started to need to draft policies and procedures to get a licence to expand her business (local authority needs), and typing these up on a mobile wasn't viable. Meeting many other teen and early twenties business owners at our events, this isn't unique and many do only use mobiles to run their businesses. So if they are a potential client then not catering for that could alienate them, but if they are not then no need to adapt no worries.


Technical term - adaptive CSS. Real world term, making the text scale effectively for the mobile screen. I struggle to read text messages on my mobile without my glasses, but never had an issue reading a restaurant menu as they usually do a really good job of making it bold and easy to read.

All of it? On one screen? Without any scrolling?

 

[Ozzy]

All of it? On one screen? Without any scrolling?

No no, scrolling yes. Pinching, no.

 

[Newchodge]

No no, scrolling yes. Pinching, no.

That wouldn't be acceptable to Mrs tiger2015!

 

[Ozzy]

That wouldn't be acceptable to Mrs tiger2015!

No, I think using his example of;

If she visits a website that needs you to pinch and zoom, she doesn't bother with it.

If she has to pinch and zoom that is a no, but scrolling is different and the same on anything from printed menus and desktop computers. Scrolling mimics your eyes natural movement down a page.

 

[fisicx]

Many restaurants and cafes upload a pdf menu. Which a pain. Like many I use a phone when looking for somewhere to eat and having to zoom and move to see a menu is just naff. It’s lazy website design.

@Clinton, being responsive is not just about catering for phone users, it’s about delivering a website that can be comfortably used on any device. And by extension makes it more accessible. You would for example make it usable for partially sighted or blind people.

 

[Clinton]

She uses her phone, for everything.

That's her problem, not mine.

Meeting many other teen and early twenties business owners at our events, this isn't unique and many do only use mobiles to run their businesses.

I do not dispute this, but this is their problem, not mine.

Technical term - adaptive CSS. Real world term, making the text scale effectively for the mobile screen.

I can't be bothered.

Listen, I've owned sites since the nineties, since the days when we coded sites in Notepad/Notepad++ (or used Frontpage!).

I've gone through all the hassle of IE incompatibilities, warnings on screen that "this site is best viewed in 1024x768 resolution", being conscious some were accessing on B&W screens or just 16 colours, having drop downs so users could choose their device for optimum viewing (before CSS and responsive design) and what not.

Some years ago there was the buzz about everybody moving to tablets. Some of you may remember all the hype about tablets (before mobile phones took off). And all the redesigns for tablet.

And the frontend design has been getting more and more complicated and fractured. I still sometimes hit a problem on a banking or other website using Firefox and the helpline suggests I try again in Chrome!

These are huge corporations who've spent gazillions on their websites and I, the user, have to adapt to use their service!

Users can adapt. If what you have on your site is important enough to them, they'll find a way to access it.

I was in a foreign country recently and there was this row of street vendors selling watermelons. They all had the same watermelons and all had pretty much the same price. Which of them sold the most watermelons? Ans: The guy who was shouting the loudest.

At the end of the row was a chap who also had mangoes. I bought some.

All any business's marketing and SEO and whatever is just the business shouting louder and louder to be heard among the rabble.

Break out of that. Offer a unique product/service. Or offer a normal product/service to an unbelievably high standard and quality that nobody else can match. Or offer it in a location that nobody else can reach. Then sit back and the sales will flow (irrespective of what screen you've designed your site for).

Don't sell watermelons, sell mangoes.

YOU WON'T NEED TO SHOUT.

 

[thetiger2015]

Break out of that. Offer a unique product/service. Or offer a normal product/service to an unbelievably high standard and quality that nobody else can match. Or offer it in a location that nobody else can reach. Then sit back and the sales will flow (irrespective of what screen you've designed your site for).

Yeah but you're kind of contradicting yourself - high standard product/service? With a website that doesn't work on any device other than a 2003 desktop PC? Not very high standard, they're unable to even afford a half decent website

It may work incredibly well for certain things. Like forums, they're a bit difficult to read on a mobile but then it depends, if it's a mobile phone forum you'd expect it to work on a phone?

Do you not think you may be cutting off maybe 10 to 15% of customers by not offering availability across multiple devices? It's not exactly rocket science. Most websites are theme based and these have mobile/tablet/desktop screen sizes already. It's actually more difficult to not offer that. In fact, I don't know how you can have a website without the mobile option, unless it's custom built or 20 years old?

I also think about security. I'm not going to enter my credit card details in to a website selling mangoes if I have to pinch and zoom for each individual line of the checkout. Nightmare!

I know you'll just say it's the customers problem to work out how to navigate your website, using a desktop PC, but think about all those people without one? Lost to a competitor.

 

[Clinton]

Do you not think you may be cutting off maybe 10 to 15% of customers by not offering availability across multiple devices?

Maybe 15%. Maybe 50%.

So?!

You just don't get it.

I know you'll just say it's the customers problem to work out how to navigate your website, using a desktop PC, but think about all those people without one? Lost to a competitor.

That's fine. I don't mind them going to a competitor, I've got some competitor phone numbers I can give them.

That's what you seem to be struggling with. Most small businesses are so worried about getting more sales, more sales, more sales they can't even imagine being in a position where they cherry pick the best enquiries and send others to their competitors.

But create enough blue water between yourself and competitors and ...you won't need to worry about getting more sales!

Anyway, I'm done with this thread. Happy chatting guys.