USA - Abortion Rights Banned!
- Thread starter MOIC
- Start date
Draconian, governments telling women, telling anyone, what they can and can't do with their bodies.
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The subject of this thread is misleading. Abortion isn't banned in the USA, what has happened is that the rules will now be determined by the individual states. Some have 'trigger legislation' already in place.
SCOTUS are probably correct to overturn Roe v Wade. How can you have a constitutional right to something not mentioned in the constitution?
What is odd is that the Dems have had years in which they could have legislated in Congress, but haven't.
SCOTUS are probably correct to overturn Roe v Wade. How can you have a constitutional right to something not mentioned in the constitution?
What is odd is that the Dems have had years in which they could have legislated in Congress, but haven't.
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No they don’t. They belong to the mother. They’re IN the mother. The mother didn’t steal them, or borrow them from somewhere.
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U
UkAppCoder
The living human body that the mother (if indeed she can be called a 'mother' at all) is murdering, belongs to the body (i.e. the 'person' or 'the living human body') that she is murdering - not the mother.
Only if he is trying to prevent the murder, otherwise he too should be left out of the deal.
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So let me get this right...
On the one hand, the Constitution doesn't protect a woman's right to have control over her own body. On the other hand it does protect a lunatics right to buy an assault rifle and murder umpteen children.
I just don't understand this deference to a 'constitution' that was written in another time and now applied to circumstances never envisaged by the authors.
I suspect that if James Madison were alive today his most common comment would be WTF?
On the one hand, the Constitution doesn't protect a woman's right to have control over her own body. On the other hand it does protect a lunatics right to buy an assault rifle and murder umpteen children.
I just don't understand this deference to a 'constitution' that was written in another time and now applied to circumstances never envisaged by the authors.
I suspect that if James Madison were alive today his most common comment would be WTF?
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Only the Americans understand their system. Any attempt we make to understand their obsession with their 'rights' fails because we have never run a country on their bizarre lines. On the subject of abortion, I think my view is that as somebody incapable of having one, my views are too distant. I believe only women have the ability to understand the issue properly, and any male just thinks they do.
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Correction.....
If James Madison were alive today his most common comment would be "why is it so dark in here?"
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Any evidence for that?
I don’t know if you have a daughter. But, if you did, and she was raped, you’d happily let her be forced to bear a child?
If so, that’s quite a ‘Wow’.
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A functioning mind?
Cognitive Functions of the Fetus - PubMed
The human brain is intricately designed to execute cognitive functions, such as perception, attention, action, memory and learning. The complete nervous system is active during prenatal development and the aim of this review is to present data on fetal cognitive functions. The fetus processes...
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
That is at 22 weeks, which is less than the current UK abortion limit (in most cases, I believe it can be much later).
It would be different at say 8 weeks when there is no real brain function.
This is a common misconception that nobody seems to want to correct.
1. If an unborn is human, no one can own a human.
2. If the unborn is not human, there is no objection to abortion
You are really just asserting 2 indirectly.
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It is my opinion, but I would have thought few people these days would say that a human can be owned.
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Most posters here are men.
We could be using pseudonyms.
We could be trans men.
Its not really relevant to discussion about ethics. Everyone is entitled to an opinion.
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UkAppCoder
I do have a daughter, and I've often considered your scenario when thinking about abortion.
Firstly, please refrain from putting words into my mouth and declaring my feelings about such an event for me. Who the hell do you think you are? I would not "happily" see my daughter be forced to do anything against her will.
Of course, such an event would be absolutely devastating and sickening. But this does not change the fact that the baby is an independent human being. No baby deserves to die because of someone else's actions.
Who are you to recommend or condone the murder of a totally innocent human being?
I would rather kill the perpetrator than the baby. My advice to my daughter would be to have the baby. If she disagreed and had an abortion, then, due to unconditional love being what it is, I would still love my daughter, and I would do everything possible to help my family get over it.
If she had the baby, then I would have no problem if she didn't want to keep it. But babies being what they are, I would say that she'd change her mind, keep the baby, and do her best to get over it. If she was unable to do this, then I would adopt the baby myself.
If you want to think of this as "quite a 'Wow'" or immoral, then that's up to you. But at least I wouldn't be a murderer like you would be in such a situation.
Next time, ask a challenging question by all means, but please don't try to impose your witless moral judgements on people before you've considered their side of such moral dilemmas.
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'.....and they all lived happily ever after...'
It's never that simple. The 'Rapist' in this woke society could have parental rights so you, if allowed to adopt in the first place could invite round him round for tea and biscuits every other Sunday whilst your daughter 'gets over it'.
Financially and more importantly, mentally, an unplanned for child can disrupt the lives of everyone involved. That side of the matter has to be considered.
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Fair enough. See, it’s just the fact that you’d prefer your opinions on health forced onto someone else, that’s the bit that repulses most of the civilised world.
Enjoy your day.
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If something is legal but distasteful to you, work to get the law changed. If something should be illegal, do the same thing. However - one person's disgust is another's relief. We are all different. I despise some people's viewpoint on this subject. Another however, I accept happily they're allowed to have that viewpoint and even promote it. There are strong opinions on both sides. I can easily think of scenarios on both sides. In the end, one side will win, until the other side bring it up again, or things change.
I still think
a. It's up to the americans
b. I don't have a right here because I'm a fella, and while I might think I understand how women think, 40 years of marriage proves I do not!
I still think
a. It's up to the americans
b. I don't have a right here because I'm a fella, and while I might think I understand how women think, 40 years of marriage proves I do not!
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Even the 10th Amendment basically says that if things are not mentioned in the constitution then it is up to the people.
https://constitution.congress.gov/constitution/amendment-10/
This judgement wasn't really about banning abortions, it was about the power of the Constitution
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No foetus is an independent human being until it is viable (able to survive) outside the womb
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Abortion banned in some States and Incest still legal in others - Are the States 'United' in any way?
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Does anyone really believe this isn't going to result in an explosion of back-street abortions where unqualified, unhygienic practitioners kill both mother and unborn children (regardless of term) whilst leaving the survivors open to medical complications, blackmail and vengeful prosecutions ?
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Any smart male politician will be coming out with something along the lines of;
I don't really think it is for us men to decide what a woman does, ask *** instead
Where *** is a rival female politician
It really is a no win situation for all politicians
I don't really think it is for us men to decide what a woman does, ask *** instead
Where *** is a rival female politician
It really is a no win situation for all politicians
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I owe you an apology for being so flippant.
Except - albeit an extreme example, it’s an example where someone who never wanted children, or might not be equipped to have a child, is forced to do so by law.
Can you see the reasoning here? It means that you have to draw lines.
Can you accept that your lines are in different places to other peoples?
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UkAppCoder
Hey no worries, mate, and thanks for that - I hate falling out with people!
At the moment a zygote has been established, we have a human being. I think it would be wrong to kill it.
I will stop using the term 'murder' because after giving it some thought, I can understand why many people might not be aware of such biological detail.
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No. Thing were different back then - for example huge social pressure not to have a baby outside wedlock.
That argument is also very weak because its an argument to allow any procedure that might be done illegally.
For example, earlier this year, several people were charged with performing castration (and emasculation, IIRC), an illegal operation initself (although you can get much the same done as part of gender reassignment).
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