The eBay seller killer conundrum

[dasmon777]

It has been a bizarre roller coaster of a ride!

I have just had a 30 minute online chat with an eBay representative to resolve an issue which I now know to be unresolvable.

I also cannot believe that I am alone in being a victim of the bizarre eBay seller standards.

Having been a seller, trainer and promoter of eBay since 2001 I find it utterly incredible that in the space of just two months they have essentially destroyed my good reputation, restricted my sales and made it utterly impossible to recover and be able to sell through eBay again.

My crime? I made one mistake. In January this year I stupidly clicked on the 'Sell one like this' link when listing a DVD we no longer wanted. Unfortunately, it was a link on a multiple item listing which sells a large quantity of the same DVD, the qty of which got included within my listing.

As soon as I found out I cancelled the listing and had to refund 6 of the buyers.

Fatal

What eBay have done has to record those 6 refunded items as defective listings, penalised my account as 'below standard' and restricted my selling ability. I can now no longer list more than 20 items and any listings I post get pushed right down the search listings as to make it virtually worthless.

One transaction has rendered my eBay account useless and unusable.

It is totally bizarre. During the online chat I pointed out that the restriction of just 20 items actually means that you cannot recover the defect rate to below their 'normal standard' for at least 3 years!

I have been selling successfully with a 100% feedback rating, 1100+ and excellent comments for 15 years and now find that all of that has been taken away because of their bizarre policy.

When I asked this eBay chap that if I return in a years time maybe I can start selling again his response was that if I do not sell the 20 items a month with a 100% perfection rate then I will have my account 'permanently' restricted!!?

I find it bizarre and actually a little offensive.

I can't believe that I am alone in being affected by this.

But the thing that got me was the callous disregard to the point I was making. After one year the best I could hope for, assuming every listing sold would be a defection rate of 2.89%, which means after the first year I would still be penalised for a transaction where no one lost money, no one got cheated and no one lost out as they were able to still purchase the item for similar prices from other suppliers. I thought I was doing the right thing

I suppose I will just have to find another outlet.

I hope at least it serves as a useful warning to others.

 

[Paul Norman]

I would caution anyone against building their business model around Ebay - and your example saves me giving numerous others.

Of course, many people make money there - and you have been one of them. But at the stroke of an algorithm, your business is closed. Apart from making further calls to Ebay and hoping someone will listen, there is nothing you can do, apart from taking your virtual trestle table to another jumble sale.

 

[dasmon777]

I am actually still a little in shock about it all.

15 years. Just seems a strange way to treat people

 

[Nochexman]

Just seems a strange way to treat people

Yup.

 

[boring-friday]

Its based on the last 3 months so they'll drop off and you'll be above standard after that and then you can ask for a limit increase

 

[Sparetoolparts]

I had a similar thing happen to me, it actually cost me my last job, as without Ebay the sales/turnover was not enough to keep my cost alive.

I now have my own ebay account and am so super cautious with everything it only takes a few simple mistakes and everything goes to sh*t

 

[mtools]

I had this happen to me, fortunately it was when i was phasing out my eBay shop and putting more of my effort into my website. I had similar issues of items being out of stock, i refunded them but still had the negative rating for 'seller defects' or whatever it is, and despite having feedback of over 99.6% it rendered my account useless, as i couldn't re-list items until my rating improved, and my rating couldn't improve until my defects were below a certain percentage. my account has finally come back to meeting their standards (i think it's been about 9 months, maybe even a yea), but they can shove it up their little sweaty tax avoiding chuffs if they think they are having any more of my business. i feel for you i really do, i hope it's not your sole income stream!

 

[14Steve14]

Just over 18 months ago, I had over 450 items listed on eBay. Small by many standards. Today I have just 24. I have never had any problems with eBay, which probably makes me unique, its just that I now prefer to sell through my own website. I started selling on eBay to keep the business afloat, and it worked. I would never rely on it to run a business. They only seem to care about the buyers, when its the sellers that pay them money. Many sellers know they will side with them if there is a problem, and many make up problems to keep the items and get a refund. Ebay ought to go back to being just as selling platform and keep out of others businesses. Once it gets its own ship in order it should the worry about others.

OP I sympathize with you. How you can get your rating back when you cant list, says it all really. Get your own website if you havent already, and push that. Use eBay to get visitors to your website (without breaking their rules) and spend time and effort there. Use eBay as a tool.

 

[GraemeL]

15 years. Just seems a strange way to treat people

Thats the point. You are not a person to ebay.

 

[Chris34]

Yeah, I picked up on this pretty quickly. Now when I sell an item that is out of stock, instead of apologizing to the customer and offering either an alternative or a refund I am forced to lie to them and say that the item has been despatched. Then I have to wait for them to contact me to say that's it's not arrived so I can then refund them for the out of stock item.

I try my best to get the stock levels correct but there always is the odd one that is sold that is out of stock every now and again. Unfortunately that 'odd one' is a big deal for Ebay now.

Ebay is dying a slow death anyway, they have done you a favour.


Chris.

 

[fisicx]

15 years. Just seems a strange way to treat people

eBay really don't care about you or your business. The only thing eBay cares about is money. And they make money by keeping customers happy. You may be banned from selling but there are millions of other sellers out there so eBay's revenue won't be affected in the slightest.

It may be harsh and you may be aggrieved but as @Paul Norman suggests, building your business on just one platform is never a good idea.

Ebay is dying a slow death anyway, they have done you a favour.

Is it? It seems to be as popular as ever, I an most people I know buy loads of stuff of eBay.

 

[antropy]

Is there no way to escalate it to someone a bit higher up? It sounds pretty shocking!

 

[The Byre]

Just use another account. I don't see the problem. I have several ebay accounts.

 

[MBE1]

Use ebay if you must, but never count on it for your real income, they change their rules and goalposts all the time, most often with no warning.

I have made some good money on ebay in the past, but consider it the cream, never expect a solid business to be built on sandy foundations.

 

[AllUpHere]

I have made some good money on ebay in the past, but consider it the cream, never expect a solid business to be built on sandy foundations.

Another good building analogy is 'never build on rented land'. If you build your business on a platform you don't own, you must be prepared for it to be snatched away at any time.

People who spend a lot of time building a presence on social media could also learn a lot from the same advice.

 

[bharris]

Ebay is dying a slow death anyway, they have done you a favour.

If eBay is dying where are the sellers moving too. Lots of people seem to moan about Amazon as well particularly with their rates. Are sellers giving up or are they using their own websites?

 

[Chris34]

If eBay is dying where are the sellers moving too. Lots of people seem to moan about Amazon as well particularly with their rates. Are sellers giving up or are they using their own websites?

Whilst it's still early days in its dying phase my reasons for it showing signs of dying is that

1. In my sector the average sale price is down by almost 15% in two years. The prices now are so low that you cannot make a profit on a lot of the items. This constant driving down on price not only affects it's sellers potential to make a profit but also it means that Ebay is making less money per sale. Unless it grows it's transaction rate then the profits will naturally fall. Even if it did manage to grow its transaction rate, it can only grow it so far and looking at point 2 below it looks like the popular appeal peaked a long time ago. So it's relying on a loyal user base to buy more.

2. Google trends shows a steep decline for Ebay and a steady strong rise for Amazon. Ebay is now trending at the same levels from 10 years ago.

https://www.google.co.uk/trends/explore#q=ebay, amazon&geo=GB&cmpt=q&tz=Etc/GMT-1

3. The profits are down.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-34599745

I think Ebay will be bought out soon, what the future holds, who knows. Obviously the internet is a big place and I think many people are just shopping around more as they are more confident and experienced online shoppers now. I think this is the winding down phase for Ebay now though.


Chris.

 

[The Byre]

To say that ebay is dying is like Yogi Berra saying "Nobody goes there any more: it's just too damn crowded!"

 

[fisicx]

Google trends shows a steep decline for Ebay and a steady strong rise for Amazon. Ebay is now trending at the same levels from 10 years ago.

All that does is show less people are searching Google for eBay. Many people now use tablets and the ebay app so don't need Google.

The profits are down.

All that is telling you is the profits are now with PayPal. Which is registered in Lx which means eBay now has to pay less tax.

 

[beasty]

I am actually still a little in shock about it all.

15 years. Just seems a strange way to treat people

Identical thing happened to me maybe 5 years ago, had 6 negatives having done exactly the same as you, relisted in error with the quantity i always had (9 at a time) after thousands of positives, 6 negatives, same item, same issue, result was account was screwed, never used ebay since.

At the time it felt like a total disaster, lesson learned, do not rely on ebay, better yet, try not to use ebay in general, although i still stock and ship product, i never use ebay and never will again.

 

[dasmon777]

Its based on the last 3 months so they'll drop off and you'll be above standard after that and then you can ask for a limit increase

Sadly, not true.

'Sellers with 400 or more transactions over the past 3 months are evaluated based on the past 3 months and sellers with fewer than 400 transactions are evaluated based on the past 12 months.'

My total transactions was 309 which means I don't get evaluated or have a chance for an improved seller rating for 12 months.

But as I found out, the 12 month evaluation still takes into account the defect rate and the number of buyers involved. So the penalty stays.

An according to the ebay adviser the restrictions become permanent if I stop trading.

But what's the point in trading if I can only sell up to £200 worth or 20 transactions a month, most of which are hidden away and the money due to me is held up by paypal for up to 28 days after I have sent the items and completed the transaction?

Don't get me wrong I used to be a massive fan of ebay. But their policies do small businesses no favours at all

 

[dasmon777]

I had this happen to me, fortunately it was when i was phasing out my eBay shop and putting more of my effort into my website. I had similar issues of items being out of stock, i refunded them but still had the negative rating for 'seller defects' or whatever it is, and despite having feedback of over 99.6% it rendered my account useless, as i couldn't re-list items until my rating improved, and my rating couldn't improve until my defects were below a certain percentage. my account has finally come back to meeting their standards (i think it's been about 9 months, maybe even a yea), but they can shove it up their little sweaty tax avoiding chuffs if they think they are having any more of my business. i feel for you i really do, i hope it's not your sole income stream!

No thankfully. The ebay trading was a useful stop gap for slow cashflow periods, but I can survive without it.

 

[dasmon777]

Is there no way to escalate it to someone a bit higher up? It sounds pretty shocking!

As I have been told. Their rules are their rules.

 

[dasmon777]

Just use another account. I don't see the problem. I have several ebay accounts.

There is a problem. You can have many seller accounts, but if you don't tell they are linked your accounts automatically restricted you can have your account shut down.
Technically any seller restrictions or seller levels applied to one account should then also be applied to the other accounts.

'Not Allowed: -Registering new accounts or using other existing accounts to avoid buying and selling restrictions or limits or other policy consequences.'

 

[fisicx]

Don't get me wrong I used to be a massive fan of ebay. But their policies do small businesses no favours at all

And that's because they don't care about you and they never have. Nobody forced you to sell on eBay. You could have built your own site, marketed and maintained and been independent. But you chose to sell on eBay knowing the rules - you checked a box to say you had read them when you signed up. All eBay has done is enforced the rules you agreed to.

 

[Chris34]

All that does is show less people are searching Google for eBay. Many people now use tablets and the ebay app so don't need Google.

All that is telling you is the profits are now with PayPal. Which is registered in Lx which means eBay now has to pay less tax.

You see I thought that, but if that were the case then why is Amazon still growing in Google Trends, albeit going a bit sideways over the last year or so? If people are not using google to find Ebay then the same would be true for Amazon. This leads me to believe that Amazon is growing still but Ebay is flat-lining.

Added to this Amazons turnover is growing at an exceptional rate whereas Ebays didn't grow at all last year. Remember we are in a high growth industry we are talking about here, both should be growing, to not grow is a bad sign.

Compared to other major players in the sector, Ebay is not growing when the rest of them appear to be growing very quickly. This can only mean one thing, Ebay is falling out of favour and has peaked.

Here is some interesting reading that throws up further warning signs:

http://www.channeladvisor.com/blog/...gpla-cse-search-and-other-e-commerce-channels

Ebay should be growing now and it isn't, that to me is a big warning sign.



Chris.

 

[David P]

Ebay is clearly struggling a bit. You can see from their quarterly financial reports that it's growth is below the average for ecommerce whereas Amazon's has been almost double.
Having said that, I think people are far too quick to jump on the ebay is dying bandwagon. It is still a massive global ecommerce player with millions and millions of unique buyers. I wouldn't rule it out yet. They are under new directorship and are shifting themselves to try and combat the problems.

I also think the idea that by building your own website you are independent is incorrect. You are simply dependent on google for the traffic rather than ebay. Yes ebay have more rules than google but in exchange for that you get more help from ebay.

 

[fisicx]

I also think the idea that by building your own website you are independent is incorrect. You are simply dependent on google for the traffic rather than ebay.

Only if you choose to get your traffic that way. There are lots of other ways to market a website.

 

[Page]

They all have their place

But if you can spread eggs and even on how people find your own site

 

[TLMartin]

Just out of curiosity what do you eBay sellers do? Register as a business seller or a private seller? As business sellers have to pay for listings even if the item doesn't sell... Where as private sellers get a good number free a month or....!

Am I missing a trick?

What other places do you use? Gumtree looks like it's on the up... What's that like?

I have my own online shop, but people seem to go to eBay first, so one way I've boosted business is sell on eBay at minimal profit (after their ludicrous costs) and in the parcel include a leaflet to my online shop)

 

[Chris34]

Just out of curiosity what do you eBay sellers do? Register as a business seller or a private seller? As business sellers have to pay for listings even if the item doesn't sell... Where as private sellers get a good number free a month or....!

Am I missing a trick?

If you are a business you have to register as a business. To not do this is illegal.

The free listings thing is just petty anyway, it only costs 10p to list with a basic shop, that's not going to make or break a business.

There is no 'trick' with Ebay, it's just full of people selling stuff for peanuts, lots of them sell the stuff at a loss, there is no 'trick' though, or maybe in Babz Media's case there was and there are probably many more like them.

If you are managing to get them across to your website then carry on but make sure that this is definitely the case, I have heard lots of website owners on hear say that moving them across from Ebay to a website is pretty much impossible. As always though, what works for one business might not work for another, just be sure that you are not working for free for Ebay with no gain through your website.

Chris.

 

[bharris]

Why is Amazon appearing to grow? To me they seem expensive compared to purchasing from other websites and you don't know who your really ordering from (like eBay). Are there sales figures used to compare with eBay include their non eCommerce activities such as 3rd party fulfillment, cloud servers, TV streaming, ebooks etc? Just wondering where their growth is coming from.

 

[Chris34]

Why is Amazon appearing to grow? To me they seem expensive compared to purchasing from other websites and you don't know who your really ordering from (like eBay). Are there sales figures used to compare with eBay include their non eCommerce activities such as 3rd party fulfillment, cloud servers, TV streaming, ebooks etc? Just wondering where their growth is coming from.

The turnovers include everything within the business, so Amazons includes everything, but unfortunately they won't give a breakdown of the figures so you have to use tools like google trends to get a feel as to how the customers are shopping.

Ebay's is a lot easier to analyse as it's just the Ebay marketplace.

I think Amazon is probably looked at by the customer as a more professional business only market. Ebay is known to be full of second hand items and is probably viewed as more of a 'car boot' feel. So the average customer is going to Amazon to make a serious purchase and going to Ebay to get them things for under a fiver.

Could be totally wrong in that assumption but the Ebay marketplace is definitely full of cheap tat that gets noticed by the customer. Poor pictures and items that should not really be sold don't give the impression of a professional businesslike marketplace. So if the impression isn't very professional then you have to ask would the average person turn to Ebay or Amazon to make a more expensive purchase? Which one are you more likely to get a dodgy product from?

Ebay would probably be better trying to separate the business sellers from the private sellers, Then they would be able to keep the part what it was intended for alive and also try and grow with a more professional side that is only for business.

It is how it is though and I think the message is use it if you can make money on it, but if you find it hard to make money then it's because the serious customers seem to be shopping elsewhere, so don't waste your time and money with it.


Chris.

 

[fisicx]

Ebay is known to be full of second hand items and is probably viewed as more of a 'car boot' feel....

Could be totally wrong in that assumption but the Ebay marketplace is definitely full of cheap tat that gets noticed by the customer...

Maybe the stuff you buy is cheap secondhand tat but the stuff we get isn't. For example, one recent purchase was a factory refurbished Dyson (saved £250). Yesterday we brought a wooden gate, the wife buys china and I get spare parts for my old car. Like many people we use a range of online suppliers, some things we get from eBay, some from Amazon and some from independents. eBay isn't going to disappear anytime soon in the same way Tesco, VW and many other large corporations haven't folded just because profits have fallen.

 

[Chris34]

Maybe the stuff you buy is cheap secondhand tat but the stuff we get isn't. For example, one recent purchase was a factory refurbished Dyson (saved £250). Yesterday we brought a wooden gate, the wife buys china and I get spare parts for my old car. Like many people we use a range of online suppliers, some things we get from eBay, some from Amazon and some from independents. eBay isn't going to disappear anytime soon in the same way Tesco, VW and many other large corporations haven't folded just because profits have fallen.

It's interesting to note that you view your own personal shopping habits to be the same as millions of others. Your own shopping habits are totally irrelevant. This is about the general shopping buyer behaviour of the masses.

However seeing as though you brought up your own personal shopping habits, you illustrate my point very clearly. All the items you bought were not 'new'. People like you, use Ebay in general for cut price items that are either refurbished or second hand. If people want a cheap 'new' item that is of value then they are using Amazon. That's what I think is happening.

Interestingly the car parts you buy is the only growth sector on Ebay at the moment and it's generally in line with e-commerce growth.

I run my business through Ebay, I know it like the back of my hand but my opinion of it matters little, it's what's the perception of the masses that matters. I could have the best offerings in the country but if the customers don't go on Ebay then they will not see my offerings which is why it matters to know buyers trending behaviour.


Chris.

 

[bharris]

I haven't bought anything from Amazon for years. I regularly buy from eBay (all brand new items). Amazon is consistently more expensive than eBay or the sellers own websites. I assume this is because of the high commission charge from Amazon. I never use google as a search to look for something on eBay or Amazon i go to the site and then search. However when searching for a product in google a link to Amazon comes up much more than eBay. If i did click on the link it wouldn't mean i will make a purchase from Amazon but it will be shown as a growing trend that Amazon is favored even by me. Basically i would be very careful of using someones behavior data when you do not know how it is actually compiled thus making it meaningless. The only way to know is to measure your own actual sales on both channels.

 

[Chris34]

.If i did click on the link it wouldn't mean i will make a purchase from Amazon but it will be shown as a growing trend that Amazon is favored even by me. Basically i would be very careful of using someones behavior data when you do not know how it is actually compiled thus making it meaningless. The only way to know is to measure your own actual sales on both channels.

That's not correct. Google trends is showing you the trend for the words people type into google to compile a search. Where you click after you have searched doesn't affect google trends, it only affects the organic search results which is totally different to what google trends is.




Chris.

 

[fisicx]

But as I explained in an earlier post, more people are using the eBay app so less people will be searching google for eBay. You can't read anything meaningful into a trend comparison between eBay and Amazon.

 

[lesliedocherty]

We just escaped from the year long penalty, it was a long year, and there was no give from eBay, very polite but no bend on the rules. Having come out the penalty, turnover hasn't really improved at all, think we must still be being penalised.

Or it could be because we charge for shipping

 

[Pish_Pash]

Why is Amazon appearing to grow? To me they seem expensive compared to purchasing from other websites and you don't know who your really ordering from (like eBay).

I sell on both Ebay & Amazon. Ebay sales were immediate & quick...straight out the blocks I was keeping a crust on the table. However, a bit like the hare & the tortoise, my Amazon sales slowly increased, then gained criticial mass ramping up very quickly to totally trounce Ebay for me as a marketplace. Whereas Ebay used to account for about 70% of my monthly sales, it's now 30% (my ebay sales haven't fallen, but have simply grown much slower vs. Amazon)

I think it's a trust thing...the Amazon name is a premium brand...buyers love to go there because they feel they have the might of Amazon backing them up if anything goes Pete Tong (also because of their product reviews.....which ebay are only catching on to now & starting to roll out)