What are your thoughts on cash?

[Kerwin]

I was just reading this article:

Disability charities urge government to protect cash

Disability Rights UK and the RNIB are warning that a cashless society could create barriers for disabled people.

www.bbc.co.uk

and wondered what everyone here thought about accepting cash? Personally I only use contactless with my phone or watch. I never carry cash or cards which makes things so much easier for me but what do you think? Accepting cash is such a pain as you have to count everything up at the end of the day and pay it into a bank/post office so I can understand why some businesses want to go contactless only.

What are your thoughts?

 

[zomex]

In my view cash is vital for freedom, privacy etc. But its eventual replacement is guaranteed. Governments hate it and digital payments are too convenient.

 

[Ozzy]

There was a thread on this a while back; and my use has remained the same.
I don't care about 'privacy' and I honestly don't care about payment processors or whoever seeing my purchases and profiling my shopping habits for marketing or whatever. It honestly is so unimportant to me, I just don't care.

Convenience is the most important aspect for me. Carrying a wallet is inconvenient, cash is inconvenient, so like you @Kerwin I pay for things using my phone and/or watch as I always have them with me.

If I lost one, I have the other, and if I were to ever find myself with them stolen, I'd manage and replace them. In the circa 8+ or so years since I last carried cash I've never found myself in a situation where my phone ran out of battery - I don't like talking to people enough.

 

[Mark T Jones]

As a consumer, I've bent right over and gone cashless - though I do stil feel that cash gave far more sense of value & purpose.

commercially, cash has never been a thing in our business.

My wife is often paid in cash - which sounds nice, but is really a PITA, as it's hard to spend in volume, and banks are increasingly rare.

 

[FreddyG]

In my view cash is vital for freedom, privacy etc. But its eventual replacement is guaranteed. Governments hate it and digital payments are too convenient.

You seem to be hinting at CBDCs (Central Bank Digital Currencies).

This is IMO the most dangerous development imaginable. It would make the complete negation of all personal freedoms possible by being totally programmable, right down to what it is spent on, with whom and when.

"I'm sorry Sir, but you have already bought three bottles of whisky this month, so we cannot sell you another."

"No Madam, your CBDC wallet timed-out yesterday. I'm so sorry!"

You don't think they'll do it? Ask those Canadian truckers who protested against the lockdown during the C19 madness and even those poor souls who donated money to them electronically. Confiscations and fines all round.

Buy gold coins. Tax-free. Untraceable. And they at least are real money and not just currencies.

 

[Ozzy]

it's hard to spend in volume

It's hard to spend in small amounts too, my preferred local coffee shop is cashless only (forced on them I feel sadly due to repeated break-ins)

 

[Clinton]

This is IMO the most dangerous development imaginable. It would make the complete negation of all personal freedoms possible by being totally programmable, right down to what it is spent on, with whom and when.

I'm with you.

I have little respect for people who enthusiatically give up cash freedoms in exchange for so called "convenience".

Okefenokee hogs, as they'll discover in due course!

I encourage people to support businesses that take cash. I spend more with businesses that take cash. I've NEVER used my phone to pay for anything. I advise the mindless mobs to go do some research, like here. But they are mindless mobs, they may read but nothing will sink in, they'll still go for "convenience".

 

[zomex]

Not caring about privacy and freedom is all well and good until that backfires and it effects you. The classic "I've got nothing to hide so i can't care" is a weak argument and a reason why our society is heading backwards.

As Freddy pointed out the Canadian truckers is a good example of where we are headed.

It's easy to look at today and forget about tomorrow.

Want to donate to the Reform party? Transaction declined, you're a far right racist and your bank account is now flagged.

Want to spend £500 this month on petrol but last month you only spent £200. Concerns raised over the environment/too much travel. Account flagged, transaction declined.

Create a video on youtube expressing your opinions on various topics that doesn't follow the mainstream narrative. They have power to close your bank and ruin your life.

 

[Kerwin]

Not caring about privacy and freedom is all well and good until that backfires and it effects you. The classic "I've got nothing to hide so i can't care" is a weak argument and a reason why our society is heading backwards.

As Freddy pointed out the Canadian truckers is a good example of where we are headed.

It's easy to look at today and forget about tomorrow.

Want to donate to the Reform party? Transaction declined, you're a far right racist and your bank account is now flagged.

Want to spend £500 this month on petrol but last month you only spent £200. Concerns raised over the environment/too much travel. Account flagged, transaction declined.

Create a video on youtube expressing your opinions on various topics that doesn't follow the mainstream narrative. They have power to close your bank and ruin your life.

That is all true but I think people should probably stop using Google or Facebook or Instagram first. They are far more worrying in regards to privacy than your bank tracking what you spend money on and if you really do care about that then you can use something like Monero.

 

[David Griffiths]

Personally I prefer to pay cashless, using my phone, and I don't have any issue with businesses who decide not to take cash. On the question of accepting payment I definitely prefer cards as I don't have to count it, nor travel to the bank or post offie to pay it in. Bank charges for handling cash are not that far different from card feess these days.

However there are many people who rely on cash and either can't or won't have the ncessary cards to go cashless. The risk is that such people become excluded to some extent by this. Theres probably a debate to be had whether an individual business has any "duty" to accept cash to accommodate such people. I tend to think not for most businesses but perhaps larger businesses such as supermarkets and utility companies might. There's probably no easy answer.

 

[Mark T Jones]

That is all true but I think people should probably stop using Google or Facebook or Instagram first. They are far more worrying in regards to privacy than your bank tracking what you spend money on and if you really do care about that then you can use something like Monero.

This has reminded me of a TV programme I came across recently called 'embarrassing bodies'

Lots of people with (it seems) physical afflictions, telling us and showing us, on TV that those afflictions were so embarrassing that it was damaging their life

It was horrible, but oddly reminiscent of people on social media banging on about privacy

 

[FreddyG]

That is all true but I think people should probably stop using Google or Facebook or Instagram first. They are far more worrying in regards to privacy than your bank tracking what you spend money on and if you really do care about that then you can use something like Monero.

I do not use the last two as I do not trust them - but I do trust Google. Well, let me put it this way, I trust Google a hell of a lot more than I trust the government and I trust central banks a whole lot less than that.

Central banks and governments have been impoverishing people ever since they discovered the miracle of being able to print money and give it to themselves and their banking buddies at the cost of the poor and the middle classes.

And as I do not have a smart-phone, so I can't use it to pay for anything.

Fortunately, the wheels are coming off the fiat currency game. You can choose between the Weimar Republic and a new gold standard. It may take a while, but gold continues to set new highs as central banks have been caught with their pants down. They have been playing the fractional reserve banking game - but with other people's gold that they said was safe in their vaults!

That is why physical gold demands have shot through the roof - now at 4 x last year's delivery demand rate. People want the real thing and not paper futures. It's called "standing for delivery". Instead of trading the paper, they are allowing the futures to stand (mature to completion) and then expecting the physical gold to arrive.

During the Weimar Republic in the 20s, there were four main commodity currencies: cigarettes, booze, gold coins and prostitution. As I am half a century too old to be a rent-boy, I'm buying gold.

 

[Usernamehere]

Unspoken issue with certain business, i had to stop taking card payments due to the ease of fraud.

I sell laptops and phones, wholesale and individual, when i was taking card payments you could easily be facing 3 charge backs a week, not though bad products, but through sheer ease of customers committing it.

A customer could literally buy a £300 phone/Laptop, walk 20 yards down the road and have it refunded same day, and no matter what evidence we provided we would lose hands down, "cost of business" apparently.

We stopped taking card payments for repairs and sales, cash machines are close by.

Not seen a drop in sales in the slightest, even before the offsetting of the lack of fraud loss

 

[Annoying Donkey]

Not sure my private jet hire company will accept a suitcase full of cash...

 

[pentel]

I have little respect for people who enthusiatically give up cash freedoms in exchange for so called "convenience".

Couldn't agree more.

 

[Newchodge]

I have a smart phone but I have never, in my life, used it to pay for anything. I have 3 different debit cards on 3 accounts with 2 different banks. Card 1 is for my personal expenditure, card 2 for household expenditure and card 3 for holiday use. I pay cash for anything that is less than £10.

One of my banks is Nationwide who had 'issues' this morning. I transferred some money from my Nationwide savings account to my Nationwide household account and tried to top up my utility pre-payment meters online. I had to wait 3 hours for the transfer to take effect.

I got a refusal message from the Utility company, stating that the card used was not valid for this kind of purchase. I have used it for exactly that purpose every 2 weeks for over a year. I transferred the money to my holiday card with a different bank and both the payments went through.

The electricity payment showed on my smart meter and my online account within 10 minutes. 7 hours later there was no sign of the gas payment so I contacted my provider by email. They got back within 10 minutes to say the payment had been found and had gone to the wrong place(?). It is now showing.

Electronic payments are great when everything works, but there are far too many 'issues' happening for me to be happy with a single payment method.

My business accepts only bank transfers.

 

[Clinton]

Not caring about privacy and freedom is all well and good until that backfires and it effects you. The classic "I've got nothing to hide so i can't care" is a weak argument and a reason why our society is heading backwards.

But isn't it cute when someone summarises the whole issue as solely driven by privacy concerns and then laughs it off because they see "irony" in posting publicly about privacy concerns. Presumably, you should speak only in private circles about such matters

Not sure my private jet hire company will accept a suitcase full of cash...

You'd be surprised. I bought my first property 100% for cash. The solicitor nearly had a heart attack when I didn't wire the money to his account but deposited it in cash! The one time I paid for a return leg (chartered flight), I paid in cash.

 

[Kerwin]

You'd be surprised. I bought my first property 100% for cash. The solicitor nearly had a heart attack when I didn't wire the money to his account but deposited it in cash! The one time I paid for a return leg (chartered flight), I paid in cash.

I'm surprised they even accepted cash for that amount. A person I know isn't allowed to accept cash as it could be money laundering.

 

[Lucan Unlordly]

In the local Co-op earlier. The tills went down and they lost the customer in front of me who didn't have cash, and 2 women behind who shrugged their shoulders and headed for the door. I had and always have £100+ in my wallet so was ok.
The duty manager was quick to tell customers it's cash only but forgot to tell them there was an indoor cash machine, 20ft away.

 

[FreddyG]

You'd be surprised. I bought my first property 100% for cash.

Actual folding money?

Me - Bank transfer every time. Usually in the form of a call to a bank or a lawyer, confirmed by a follow-up email. Or visa-versa.

 

[japancool]

Last time I needed cash was so I could get a supermarket trolley, because the scum in this country can't be trusted not to nick them.

Physical cash is the least of our worries.

 

[Clinton]

Actual folding money?

Me - Bank transfer every time. Usually in the form of a call to a bank or a lawyer, confirmed by a follow-up email. Or visa-versa.

Yup, folding money (not coins!). It was back in the early 90s, the amount was a five figure sum, the lawyer was a guy called Alan Harrison. I remember his face at the time; it was priceless.

I'm surprised they even accepted cash for that amount. A person I know isn't allowed to accept cash as it could be money laundering.

I suspect you started this thread expecting a love-in and everyone agreeing with you about how fantastic the move away from cash is, how amazingly convenient it is, whatever.

But I'm glad you're learning that it's not universally celebrated. Hopefully, you (and others like you) will take the time and trouble to consider wider implications, and longer term implications, rather than your own selfish immediate 'convenience' (and / or appearing modern, tech savvy, clued-up, trend setters, whatever other pretentious adjective fits)

 

[Mark T Jones]

Last time I needed cash was so I could get a supermarket trolley, because the scum in this country can't be trusted not to nick them.

Physical cash is the least of our worries.

There are keyring tokens for that.

Though I try nit to shop in the type of establishment that expects people to steal trolleys (except lidl of course)

 

[fisicx]

I work with a lot of overseas clients. Cash isn’t really practical.

 

[Ozzy]

rather than your own selfish immediate 'convenience' (and / or appearing modern, tech savvy, clued-up, trend setters, whatever other pretentious adjective fits)

Quite judgemental there @Clinton

Just because I don't want to carry cash, and just because I don't believe some of the reasons for hanging on to cash put forward, and because I enjoy convenience in some areas of my life as many do in many parts of their lives (it's easier to drive to the shops than take a horse and cart for example), doesn't justify 'pretentious'.

 

[Annoying Donkey]

You'd be surprised. I bought my first property 100% for cash. The solicitor nearly had a heart attack when I didn't wire the money to his account but deposited it in cash! The one time I paid for a return leg (chartered flight), I paid in cash.

I think money laundering regs would stop that...

I seem to remember about 25 years ago we sold my wife's car. The guy turned up with a briefcase with a pile of cash. When I took it to the bank they demanded I fill out a form explaining where the cash came from.

A suitcase full of £100k to charter a jet to take me to NZ would probably require more than one form...

Not to say that jet charter companies don't accept dodgy cash or other deals...

It seems that carrying large sums of cash, possibly defined as over £100, is sufficient for police to suspect you of a crime, unless you can prove it was obtained through legitimate means and you can justify having the cash. Whatever happened to innocent until proven guilty...?

Anyway we do keep some cash in case the banking system fails, which it seems to do all too frequently...

 

[Clinton]

I work with a lot of overseas clients. Cash isn’t really practical.

I get that. My clients pay by bank transfer. However, I am quite happy to take payment in cash if anyone prefers. But I do draw out cash regularly and pay by cash when I can. How customers choose to pay us is not the issue, it's how we act that matters.

Let me put it another way. This is a forum to support, help and encourage small businesses, local businesses, not mega corporations.

You draw £50 in cash and use it to pay your barber, your butcher, your cleaner. They use that £50 to pay their local mechanic, their nail salon, their grocer. And so on. Every time that money gets spent, it's a full £50 value circulating in the local economy.

Pay by card and every time you make a payment, some big bank or payment processor is getting a cut. The £50 gets reduced to $49 to £48 to £47 and keeps going down. The more that money circulates, the more there's getting skimmed off into some big private equity company's profit (and/or to pay outcourced wages in some distant country), and the more you are taking out of the local economy, out of the hands of small businesses.

 

[Porky]

What are my thoughts on cash?

I bloody love it, just need more of it to be quite honest

 

[Kerwin]

I suspect you started this thread expecting a love-in and everyone agreeing with you about how fantastic the move away from cash is, how amazingly convenient it is, whatever.

But I'm glad you're learning that it's not universally celebrated. Hopefully, you (and others like you) will take the time and trouble to consider wider implications, and longer term implications, rather than your own selfish immediate 'convenience' (and / or appearing modern, tech savvy, clued-up, trend setters, whatever other pretentious adjective fits)

Blimey. Talk about overreacting. It was a genuine question. Yes, I am pro contactless over cash. I said that quite clearly but nowhere did I say anyone else was wrong to prefer cash.

The main question was whether it was worth the hassle to accept cash in a modern setting when you can accept a card and not have to worry about counting up at the end of the day and depositing into a bank / safe or were there other reasons that cash was better than contactless. The main argument seemed to be about privacy and getting rid of government control which I said didn't necessarily require cash as there were alternatives.

Anyway, hope you are well.

 

[Lucan Unlordly]

It seems that carrying large sums of cash, possibly defined as over £100, is sufficient for police to suspect you of a crime, unless you can prove it was obtained through legitimate means and you can justify having the cash

I'd end up on '24 hours in Police Custody' then
I'm carrying £280 in my wallet today, emergency tenner's in glove box of 4 vehicles...

 

[japancool]

You mean... they'd find out I drink Nescafé Gold Blend instead of Tetley's Tea?

Mein Gott!

 

[Mark T Jones]

I get that. My clients pay by bank transfer. However, I am quite happy to take payment in cash if anyone prefers. But I do draw out cash regularly and pay by cash when I can. How customers choose to pay us is not the issue, it's how we act that matters.

Let me put it another way. This is a forum to support, help and encourage small businesses, local businesses, not mega corporations.

You draw £50 in cash and use it to pay your barber, your butcher, your cleaner. They use that £50 to pay their local mechanic, their nail salon, their grocer. And so on. Every time that money gets spent, it's a full £50 value circulating in the local economy.

Pay by card and every time you make a payment, some big bank or payment processor is getting a cut. The £50 gets reduced to $49 to £48 to £47 and keeps going down. The more that money circulates, the more there's getting skimmed off into some big private equity company's profit (and/or to pay outcourced wages in some distant country), and the more you are taking out of the local economy, out of the hands of small businesses.

It's a nice ideal, which certainly doesn't reflect in my world

I always favour independents over big business, and have (the wife's) cash at my disposal to pay them.

My plumber and the mobile mechanic I sometimes use won't actually accept cash if I wave it under their noses. (With training in collections, that horrifies me). They'll go away, email an invoice and request electronic payment

The biggest single turning point was when the owner of our local pub - who certainly wouldn't be over-scrupulous with HMRC - said he would far rather we paid by card than cash. For him cash is an expensive liability whilst card is clean and easy.

 

[fisicx]

Pay by card and every time you make a payment, some big bank or payment processor is getting a cut. The £50 gets reduced to $49 to £48 to £47 and keeps going down.

Except when you do a bank transfer there are no fees. If you pay cash each person needs to do a bank run which results in a cash handling fee.

When I pay the bloke who cleans the windows the money is in his bank before he’s got in his van. He then uses the money to pay his bills.

 

[Clinton]

The biggest single turning point was when the owner of our local pub - who certainly wouldn't be over-scrupulous with HMRC - said he would far rather we paid by card than cash.

What kinds of sad excuse is that?!

Everywhere else we talk about the customer, the customer's choice, making it easier for the customer, and so on.

You're the customer. Pay with cash if you wish to pay with cash (instead of, as you seem to have done, capitulating to the merchant's preferred method and using it as a 'turning point' for your life! )

 

[FreddyG]

My plumber and the mobile mechanic I sometimes use won't actually accept cash if I wave it under their noses. (With training in collections, that horrifies me). They'll go away, email an invoice and request electronic payment.

Now put yourself in the shoes of the mechanic, the pub-owner and the plumber. They are both going to ask themselves several questions before payment by cash -

1. Have I known this geezer for at least 20 years?

2. Is he a member of my lodge, is he even local?

3. Has he always paid in full and on the same day?

4. Is he in some dodgy trade that is likely to get audited?

5. Is he a nice guy?

6. I am a busy man and I am not going to F-about, entering a cash payment into my books and I am certainly not going to risk giving this person a trouser-money rebate!

If the answer to two or more of those questions is no, then "Thanks, but no thanks! We'll play it by the book and have a 100% proven record of payment! It saves my time and means I can sleep at night!"

 

[tony84]

When I was 18-19, I started moving more towards using my debit card - everything from chewing gum (which was about 30p at the time) was paid for on my card.

My dad gave me some cash in November for my birthday, its still in an envelope. It will likely still be there this November.

If a customer wants to pay me in cash, its a pain as I have to then pay it into the bank, the same with a cheque.

I have nothing against cash, but its not as convenient for me.

 

[Paul Kelly ICHYB]

In my events businesses, whilst I have driven many customers/visitors to card (80-90%) I still take cash as there is a demand for it and, through experience, I know visitor numbers would decline (even though we are generally talking <£10 transactions) - cash still works for me, although it is a pain to handle.

What really annoys me are those commentators who bleat on about spending £50 at a local business, who spends £50 at another local business and 20 transactions later, you still have £50. Whilst I agree with the sentiment, its a load of tosh!

 

[FreddyG]

My dad gave me some cash in November for my birthday, its still in an envelope. It will likely still be there this November.

No, some of it has already gone. About 7%-9% will be missing by my calculations. You might have 10%-12% missing by November, maybe much more!

 

[tony84]

No, some of it has already gone. About 7%-9% will be missing by my calculations. You might have 10%-12% missing by November, maybe much more!

Same amount as if it were in the bank. Nobody (sane) keeps all of their money in gold/stocks etc.

 

[Kerwin]

The one area where cash still reigns supreme is in microtransactions. I have a service which is charged by the hour and there is no minimum usage so potentially a customer could use 1 hour of resources and be charged a couple of pennies at the end of the month. It is pretty much not worth bothering with when it comes to cards (although I do know there are services for exactly this situation).