Was Sweden right after all ?

[Interestedobserver]

Maybe tell all the top level scientists/professors/medical experts and pretty much most of the wider world that ‘YOU’ want everyone to stop saying let’s copy Sweden just to suit you and your controlling ways.

Anyway no point arguing with you about it as can’t be arsed so let’s see in time who was right ie Sweden or the rest of the world.

Do any of the people on the news saying we should copy Sweden (including the dragons den guy just 5 minutes ago) actually know that since July the Swedish Government have asked everybody who can to work from home until the New Year?

How does that help the economy?

Yet they are saying we must copy Sweden to save our economy?

We've also got people in hospitality industry saying copy Sweden whilst at the very same time saying we need to get people back to work and back in the cities!

Lol

These guys are literally clueless about sweden

Sweden have got less happening in their towns and cities than us right now!

Everyone is staying safe over there.

Hence they have less cases than the rest of us

How can so many people talk about something they clearly have no real knowledge of?

Doctors and professors are saying stuff as well about Sweden?

They all think everyone is going out and about and their economy is normal?

 

[Newchodge]

Do any of the people on the news saying we should copy Sweden (including the dragons den guy just 5 minutes ago) actually know that since July the Swedish Government have asked everybody who can to work from home until the New Year?

They MUST do if they read this thread. You have only mentioned it 20 odd times. The vital part, for me, is the Swedish Government have asked everybody who can to work from home. Our Government passes draconian laws with severe penalties without making it clear what the penalties are for and what can and cannot be done.

 

[Interestedobserver]

They MUST do if they read this thread. You have only mentioned it 20 odd times. The vital part, for me, is the Swedish Government have asked everybody who can to work from home. Our Government passes draconian laws with severe penalties without making it clear what the penalties are for and what can and cannot be done.

And asked that to continue until the New Year

If Boris has asked that back in July he would have been hammered by industries left, right and centre

Am I wrong Newchodge?

What concerns me is the false reporting of Sweden being business as normal gets people thinking there's a workable alternative

Fair enough if people want alternatives - but don't then use Sweden as an example. They are social distancing as much as anyone in Europe

Pick another country

 

[Forgot password]

Hate to inform you of this but people have been infected without it being confirmed. No tests done - does not mean people were not getting the virus.

Have you been tested this week? If not how do you know you do not have the virus today?

Why do you constantly bang on about the saviour of the 00.4% of people who may be affected by this thing?

This is not the Black Death not the plague.. highly vulnerable people mostly over the average living age of 82 with the underlying medical conditions are at risk yes... Yet you seem to back the destructive restrictions that are leading to mass unemployment/suicides/mental illness/businesses crashing/whole industries bleeding slowly to death/increase in domestic abuse especially towards children/high aneixty amongst the youth/loss of freedoms/people losing there homes etc etc..

Why is it you and others on here constantly lose the scope to understand this and seem to have a image in your head of a zombie apocalypse?

Should we be allowing all of the above to happen to justify the saviour of the 00.4%? What happened to 3 weeks to flatten the curve?

Most on here are business owners and whilst I understand some have been unaffected many have been and badly- businesses that you worked your socks off for many years that you grew from a acorn pouring blood sweat and tears into to get to the level it is today for it to be totally destroyed overnight without any resistance and willingly rolling over and accepting this as if you are a soldier doing your bit for the country going off to fight in a just cause... Please!!

When will you start questioning things and doing something to stop this absurd nonsense?

What will you tell your grandkids you did stop the destruction of the very fabric of freedoms and liberty that are being ebbed away as each week goes on and following made up on the spot laws that aren’t even lawful through parliament and being dictated too by two scientists for Gods sake based on made up charts with no opposition from anyone with the elected by us governments own party let alone the opposition!!

I hope this gets through to at least one of you on here and for me that’s it I have had enough- I will be doing everything I can to fight this not just for me but for you sheeple who are just standing by allowing this to happen..

Write to your spineless MP and ask them why they are allowing this to happen with no questions or opposition/resistance and remind them clearly they do not have your consent (although most of you they do have) and there seat is at risk.

Sheild the vulnerable and support them the rest get the hell on with it. Yes there will be a few casualties just like there were when we stopped the Nazis from ruling Europe. FFS.

 

[simon field]

And asked that to continue until the New Year

If Boris has asked that back in July he would have been hammered by industries left, right and centre

Am I wrong Newchodge?

What concerns me is the false reporting of Sweden being business as normal gets people thinking there's a workable alternative

Fair enough if people want alternatives - but don't then use Sweden as an example. They are social distancing as much as anyone in Europe

Pick another country

You’ve missed the point. ASKED is not the same as BEING TOLD.

If the Tories didn’t insist on treating people like children, they’d have more success getting people to follow their silly wishes - simples.

 

[gpietersz]

Hate to inform you of this but people have been infected without it being confirmed. No tests done - does not mean people were not getting the virus.

That is my point. The high numbers of confirmed infections we are seeing is not a cause for concern because it does not reflect the same numbers of total infections we say a few months ago.

It could also be that people are getting less sick though, or a combination of the two.

great. Then we catch it again.
Antibodies do not remain at high level in the body. So you get it in January and get it again in May and again in October. Oh wait that sounds like a covid virus.

While there have been isolated cases of people getting covid more than once, these are very rare. In general, once you get it you are immune. Not everyone who is immune is picked up by an anti-body test so the number who are actually immune through exposure to covid is higher (we do not know by how much, but it could be several times as many) than the proportion who have positive anti-body tests.

You can also be immune through exposure to. One of the reasons it has not been that bad in SE Asia is they have more cross immunity through greater exposure to other SARS viruses.

All that also means far fewer people have to get it (not much over 20% of the population by some epidemiologists estimates) to reach herd immunity.

 

[gpietersz]

What concerns me is the false reporting of Sweden being business as normal gets people thinking there's a workable alternative

There is a workable alternative. Only lockdown if the NHS looks in danger of being unable to cope, and shield those who are vulnerable.

That way the rest of us get it to build herd immunity and we encourage the viruses evolution to be less dangerous.

 

[Interestedobserver]

You’ve missed the point. ASKED is not the same as BEING TOLD.

If the Tories didn’t insist on treating people like children, they’d have more success getting people to follow their silly wishes - simples.

Are we all being forced to work from home ?

 

[Interestedobserver]

You’ve missed the point. ASKED is not the same as BEING TOLD.

If the Tories didn’t insist on treating people like children, they’d have more success getting people to follow their silly wishes - simples.

Well we've only just been asked. They've been asked to do that since the end of July.

I guarantee a greater percentage of their public are working from home than ours are as well.

They are more advanced than us in the respect even before they were asked

Why aren't they telling them all to go out and work?

I'm sure that's what you guys have been preaching all the while Sweden have been telling them to stay at home and work

 

[Interestedobserver]

There is a workable alternative. Only lockdown if the NHS looks in danger of being unable to cope, and shield those who are vulnerable.

That way the rest of us get it to build herd immunity and we encourage the viruses evolution to be less dangerous.

Well thats nothing like Sweden are doing as hopefully you now accept?

They clearly aren't even trying for herd immunity

 

[Forgot password]

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/...us-with-herd-immunity-expert-claims-pmmww8b7k

Maybe take it up with him as a hospitality caterer I am sure you know better.. drop him a email.

 

[Interestedobserver]

Sweden's Coronavirus Herd Immunity 'Nowhere In Sight,' Researchers SaySweden, which has made headlines during the COVID-19 pandemic for not locking down like other countries, is nowhere near achieving herd immunity, according to researchers. ... Evidence suggests that being infected with the COVID-19-causing coronavirus can trigger the production of antibodies, although it's unclear whether this protects against reinfections, the authors noted. While it was hoped that 40 percent of the population of Sweden's capital Stockholm would be carrying antibodies against the virus by May 2020, the figure was in fact around 15 percent. (12th August)

They failed to predict that Swedes would be careful and avoid wanting to join the herd

 

[oli150194]

Although i do understand the severity of the situation we can't base everything on the number that we are being shown. I know in the UK the numbers are not accurate as most elderly people who unfortunately passed away due to the pandemic automatically get put down as death due to covid

 

[Forgot password]

Sweden's Coronavirus Herd Immunity 'Nowhere In Sight,' Researchers SaySweden, which has made headlines during the COVID-19 pandemic for not locking down like other countries, is nowhere near achieving herd immunity, according to researchers. ... Evidence suggests that being infected with the COVID-19-causing coronavirus can trigger the production of antibodies, although it's unclear whether this protects against reinfections, the authors noted. While it was hoped that 40 percent of the population of Sweden's capital Stockholm would be carrying antibodies against the virus by May 2020, the figure was in fact around 15 percent. (12th August)

They failed to predict that Swedes would be careful and avoid wanting to join the herd

Why you wasting your time arguing with the butcher baker and candlestick maker on here when you can take it up with the Professor of Bio micro complexity the expert on the spread of diseases?

Told you - drop him a email I am sure he wants to hear your views.

 

[simon field]

Are we all being forced to work from home ?

No, we are being told how to live, with the threat of more severe punishments if we don’t do as we’re told.

Just like schoolchildren

That's why people have switched off, it’s boring now.

 

[Mr D]

There is a workable alternative. Only lockdown if the NHS looks in danger of being unable to cope, and shield those who are vulnerable.

That way the rest of us get it to build herd immunity and we encourage the viruses evolution to be less dangerous.

By the time the NHS reports it in danger of being unable to cope then its too late.

Once lockdown is implemented the virus still continues to infect, just it deals with fewer people. The virus passed around but not yet causing illness still can cause illness - put lockdown in place tonight and the number of people ill would still be able to increase for next few weeks!
Its not a question of put lockdown in place numbers of hospital beds needed for this virus immediately starts to fall - its multiple days to become ill, multiple days to become so ill needing hospitalisation - so you figure out at what point in time, say 3 weeks in advance, that the NHS is going to have problems?
Then impose lockdown at that point.

 

[Mr D]

That is my point. The high numbers of confirmed infections we are seeing is not a cause for concern because it does not reflect the same numbers of total infections we say a few months ago.

It could also be that people are getting less sick though, or a combination of the two.



While there have been isolated cases of people getting covid more than once, these are very rare. In general, once you get it you are immune. Not everyone who is immune is picked up by an anti-body test so the number who are actually immune through exposure to covid is higher (we do not know by how much, but it could be several times as many) than the proportion who have positive anti-body tests.

You can also be immune through exposure to. One of the reasons it has not been that bad in SE Asia is they have more cross immunity through greater exposure to other SARS viruses.

All that also means far fewer people have to get it (not much over 20% of the population by some epidemiologists estimates) to reach herd immunity.

There have been study done of how long antibodies last. Now if you haven't got antibodies can you catch it again?

 

[Mr D]

Why do you constantly bang on about the saviour of the 00.4% of people who may be affected by this thing?

Repeating your numbers does not make them true.

What is the case fatality rate?

 

[fisicx]

No, we are being told how to live, with the threat of more severe punishments if we don’t do as we’re told.

Just like schoolchildren

And that’s because people are stupid and don’t care about anyone but themselves.

In the same way they have to be told to wear a seatbelt and not drink bleach.

 

[The Byre]

And not drink bleach.

Now he tells me!

 

[Interestedobserver]

R

No, we are being told how to live, with the threat of more severe punishments if we don’t do as we’re told.

Just like schoolchildren

That's why people have switched off, it’s boring now.

So you agree with the policy of everyone working from home til the New Year as long as the Government ask nicely

The max of 50 people at mass gathering is law in Sweden and not just something they've asked nicely about

Sometimes even the Swedes have to lay the law down

I don't actually think there are fines for not working from home in UK are they?

I'm sure Boris has only asked us to do it today?

 

[Forgot password]

Repeating your numbers does not make them true.

What is the case fatality rate?

Turns out the “we love Science” crowd led by Mr D doesn’t know the difference between case fatality rate and infection fatality rate. This level of misinformation is pretty astonishing for a mainstream news outlets and suckers like you to read into.

 

[Forgot password]

data from two models estimating daily infections in England, deriving recent IFRs estimates of 0.30% using the MRC unit’s data and 0.49% using ONS data.

Next question

 

[simon field]

R


So you agree with the policy of everyone working from home til the New Year as long as the Government ask nicely

The max of 50 people at mass gathering is law in Sweden and not just something they've asked nicely about

Sometimes even the Swedes have to lay the law down

I don't actually think there are fines for not working from home in UK are they?

I'm sure Boris has only asked us to do it today?

Why do you keep going on about working from home?

That’s the least of the draconian measures, and it’s not even compulsory. You’re barking up the wrong tree.

Being told how to socialise in an area where there’s virtually no infections - being told I mustn’t have more than five mates (even though none of them are ill) is just pathetic!

 

[Mr D]

And that’s because people are stupid and don’t care about anyone but themselves.

In the same way they have to be told to wear a seatbelt and not drink bleach.

Hey, they had to be told to wash their hands during this pandemic.

Your survival requires other people to have common sense? You may as well drink the bleach yourself!

 

[Mr D]

data from two models estimating daily infections in England, deriving recent IFRs estimates of 0.30% using the MRC unit’s data and 0.49% using ONS data.

Next question

Yes what is the case fatality rate?

 

[The Byre]

Next question

What happened to your good-looking green face? Now, all we see is what appears to be a wanted criminal who needs a shave.

 

[gpietersz]

There have been study done of how long antibodies last. Now if you haven't got antibodies can you catch it again?

Those measure persistence of antibodies which is not the same thing as immunity. https://www.theguardian.com/comment...t-antibody-tests-covid-19-immuity-coronavirus


Given the very small number of cases of people getting covid twice, its unlikely you can get it twice.

 

[The Byre]

There are various strains of C19 - three I believe so far.

It is a novel form of cold virus, that's all - and we are all going to get it in some form sooner or later, just like all the other cold viruses. So start eating proper food, run about outside and lose weight - or die.

 

[simon field]

Hey, they had to be told to wash their hands during this pandemic.

Your survival requires other people to have common sense? You may as well drink the bleach yourself!

No they didn’t, that’s just what the government decided they had to be told.

You’re being very dramatic.

 

[Mr D]

There are various strains of C19 - three I believe so far.

It is a novel form of cold virus, that's all - and we are all going to get it in some form sooner or later, just like all the other cold viruses. So start eating proper food, run about outside and lose weight - or die.

Run about inside if you want.

If you can run.

Often see potential heart attack victims running along the side of the road. Looks dangerous, middle aged or older people running along with red face, sweat pouring off them....
More a young person's game.

 

[Forgot password]

What happened to your good-looking green face? Now, all we see is what appears to be a wanted criminal who needs a shave.

Ah er urm - typically would have to be you who picked up on the unshaven face lol, hope you were one of us and not a officer as if so will go shave now sir.

I feel I will be classed as a criminal soon and possibly arrested as it seems unless your in a BLM protest the peaceful protests are being targeted and innocent people arrested for speaking the truth.

Let’s hope I survive the weekend.

 

[Interestedobserver]

What happened to your good-looking green face? Now, all we see is what appears to be a wanted criminal who needs a shave.

I thought it was Grant Mitchell??

 

[Forgot password]

No they didn’t, that’s just what the government decided they had to be told.

You’re being very dramatic.

You’ve only just noticed he is dramatic! Blimey. He makes the eastenders script writers look like children’s story book authors.

 

[Forgot password]

I thought it was Grant Mitchell??

Lol just as I was talking about eastenders.. ha. Good timing Tornado.

 

[Interestedobserver]

Why do you keep going on about working from home?

That’s the least of the draconian measures, and it’s not even compulsory. You’re barking up the wrong tree.

Being told how to socialise in an area where there’s virtually no infections - being told I mustn’t have more than five mates (even though none of them are ill) is just pathetic!

Shows hot little you know about kick starting an economy?

Have you been anywhere near a town centre or city centre lately?

Asking everyone back in July to work at home til the New Year at least is the opposite of what you have preached for the last few months

Be honest?

 

[Interestedobserver]

You’ve only just noticed he is dramatic! Blimey. He makes the eastenders script writers look like children’s story book authors.

I was right. You ARE Grant Mitchell!

Lol

 

[Forgot password]

I was right. You ARE Grant Mitchell!

Lol

It’s that or Bruce Willis that I usually get haha.. either will do.

 

[The Byre]

hope you were one of us

Strictly 'Junior, Acting Lance-Private Third-Class'.

It's always interesting to see who goes on to make a success of Civvie Street - and it's seldom one of 'them'! That's one of 'those' discussions that can go deep into the night!

 

[Forgot password]

Strictly 'Junior, Acting Lance-Private Third-Class'.

It's always interesting to see who goes on to make a success of Civvie Street - and it's seldom one of 'them'! That's one of 'those' discussions that can go deep into the night!

Well you have and well done for that.. your certainly reaping the rewards now. Top man.