VAT returns "to be submitted digitally"

Discussion in 'Accounts & Finance' started by Justin Smith, Oct 17, 2018.

  1. Mr D

    Mr D UKBF Legend Free Member

    17,324 1,949
    Why not?
    They got people to do that with VAT and payroll taxes. Not to mention government requiring you to supply certain information in the format they wanted.

    Perhaps they should go back to you simply showing a set of books to the local bailiff and him agreeing an amount for you to pay in taxes?
     
    Posted: Oct 23, 2018 By: Mr D Member since: Feb 12, 2017
    #61
  2. Scalloway

    Scalloway UKBF Legend Free Member

    15,311 3,234
    I can remember the dim and distant past when VAT was introduced. More than one taxpayer threatened to make a deduction from the payment they had to make to Customers and Excise to compensate for the additional time they needed to compile their VAT returns.
     
    Posted: Oct 23, 2018 By: Scalloway Member since: Jun 6, 2010
    #62
  3. GillespieBS

    GillespieBS UKBF Regular Free Member

    348 52
    Is this a genuine thread or a political rant?

    The time it has taken the OP to post on here and reject change they could have become a certified Xero adviser!
     
    Posted: Oct 23, 2018 By: GillespieBS Member since: Apr 11, 2008
    #63
  4. Mark T Jones

    Mark T Jones UKBF Big Shot Full Member

    3,614 1,091
    But seriously, what is the potential upside to the OP, versus the potential downside?

    Upside

    • Gets to continue using archaic systems.
    • Makes a point.
    Downside

    • Risk of heavy fines
    • Significant time and effort (far more than adopting new systems)
    • Legal costs.
    • potential unwanted attention to the nice people at HMRC.
    If the OP wants to be a crusader this might be the way to go. If they want to run a business it's just a distraction.
     
    Posted: Oct 23, 2018 By: Mark T Jones Member since: Nov 4, 2015
    #64
  5. Mr D

    Mr D UKBF Legend Free Member

    17,324 1,949
    Perhaps a strongly worded letter sent to HMRC and carried by an employed messenger working for the OP to the address he has for HMRC direct, staying in coaching inns and travelling by horse. Or a bit slower perhaps, pay someone going in the right direction to carry the letter to someone closer to the address who can get someone going in the right direction to carry it closer etc until HMRC eventually receive it.
    None of this new fangled postal service stuff.
     
    Posted: Oct 23, 2018 By: Mr D Member since: Feb 12, 2017
    #65
  6. Justin Smith

    Justin Smith UKBF Enthusiast Full Member

    577 59
    I`ve been running this business for 25 years, and VAT registered for well over 20. I`ve never been put in a situation where the HMRC has required me to change my system with no support AND pay for the privilege of doing so, so that I can continue to pay them.
    Any reasonable person would consider it unreasonable, particularly for a small business not that far over the VAT threshold.
     
    Posted: Oct 24, 2018 By: Justin Smith Member since: Jun 6, 2012
    #66
  7. Mr D

    Mr D UKBF Legend Free Member

    17,324 1,949
    Yes you have. You have been required to become VAT registered - that for pretty much every business is a change in system and pay for the privilege of doing so.
    Your own time, your own costs associated with collecting VAT. Your own bank charges for payments etc.

    You were willing enough to do stuff for free over 20 years ago. What changed?
     
    Posted: Oct 24, 2018 By: Mr D Member since: Feb 12, 2017
    #67
  8. Justin Smith

    Justin Smith UKBF Enthusiast Full Member

    577 59
    duplicated
     
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2018
    Posted: Oct 24, 2018 By: Justin Smith Member since: Jun 6, 2012
    #68
  9. Justin Smith

    Justin Smith UKBF Enthusiast Full Member

    577 59
    To be quite honest he had a point, he was acting as the Governments tax collector for free. But this digital VAT is even worse, it`s actually requiring the business to pay out money in order to be able to pay the HMRC.
     
    Posted: Oct 24, 2018 By: Justin Smith Member since: Jun 6, 2012
    #69
  10. Justin Smith

    Justin Smith UKBF Enthusiast Full Member

    577 59
    I`m sorry but you`re wrong, you might like to apologise, particularly after coming on here with all your trolling.

    When we became VAT registered the VAT office sent someone round here to show us all the ins and outs of paying VAT and how it might affect our systems. One thing she said which I`ve never forgotten is "we [the VAT office] aren't really that interested in collecting VAT from small businesses" (the implication was businesses just over the VAT threshold).

    When online paying of PAYE came on stream a few years ago the HMRC provided phone support, and the software ("Basic PAYE tools") to do it, critically there was, and still is, phone support for the Basic PAYE tool, something I needed when I couldn`t seem to claim back some sick pay the other month. I thought there was an error on their software, whereas in actual fact the Govt had stopped paying sick pay a few years back. They kept that quiet didn`t they.....
     
    Posted: Oct 24, 2018 By: Justin Smith Member since: Jun 6, 2012
    #70
  11. Mr D

    Mr D UKBF Legend Free Member

    17,324 1,949
    Oh sorry it wasn't you then that agreed to be an unpaid tax collector for HMRC and do additional work for free? Must have been my mistake.

    You pay for HMRC. You have done all along, just you aren't getting a separate bill for it. All that time and effort they put into helping you? Paid for from …. taxation?

    There is no trolling, there is disagreement with you. Very big difference.
    You want a whinge, OK I can get that. Too much whinge and not enough action is not attractive.
     
    Posted: Oct 24, 2018 By: Mr D Member since: Feb 12, 2017
    #71
  12. GillespieBS

    GillespieBS UKBF Regular Free Member

    348 52
    Justin

    I highly recommend putting your energy into improving your systems and adopting an electronic system. You will not make silly mistakes like this one. Free (and very cheap) software is available.

     
    Posted: Oct 24, 2018 By: GillespieBS Member since: Apr 11, 2008
    #72
  13. Justin Smith

    Justin Smith UKBF Enthusiast Full Member

    577 59
    Which free software would you recommend ?
    Is it HMRC approved ? ! ?
    Is there any support available ?
    I`d have thought I`d most want a free package but with (I assume chargeable) phone support for the first year or so.
     
    Posted: Oct 24, 2018 By: Justin Smith Member since: Jun 6, 2012
    #73
  14. Justin Smith

    Justin Smith UKBF Enthusiast Full Member

    577 59
    I don`t accept your equivalence of my tax and my costs for a problem the HMRC are giving me.

    You still haven`t answered my point that I did in fact get adequate help from the HMRC both when I became VAT registered and when I was required to start submitting PAYE electronically, this time, as far as I`ve been able to find out, the HMRC aren`t giving any help at all.

    I find the problem with this world is not that too many people complain, it`s actually that too many people just accept stuff without making a fuss about it. How the hell did / do airlines get away with charging passengers just to pick their soddin` seats, something which costs them sod all. I find this with my own business, customers generally don`t complain, even if they should.
     
    Posted: Oct 24, 2018 By: Justin Smith Member since: Jun 6, 2012
    #74
  15. Mr D

    Mr D UKBF Legend Free Member

    17,324 1,949
    You paid for the help you were given. Just was done via general taxation rather than requiring you to pay separately to book a consultant to come out to you etc.

    Yes I agree most don't complain. They whinge on forums and social media but don't actually go as far as complaining where it can be at least noted and acknowledged by the relevant body.
    If you do complain, great. More power to you.

    There is a method of avoiding paying for your own seat. Take your own.
    They remove a seat to fit in a wheelchair, usually an aisle seat. :)
     
    Posted: Oct 24, 2018 By: Mr D Member since: Feb 12, 2017
    #75
  16. GillespieBS

    GillespieBS UKBF Regular Free Member

    348 52
    I'd suggest banking with Natwest and get a complimentary FreeAgent account. Yes approved by HMRC. Yes support available and no charge as far as I am aware.

    If you can use this forum and have been doing your books for years then I think you've got it in you.
     
    Posted: Oct 24, 2018 By: GillespieBS Member since: Apr 11, 2008
    #76
  17. Justin Smith

    Justin Smith UKBF Enthusiast Full Member

    577 59
    https://www.freeagent.com/pricing/

    It seems to free for RBS Business customers, though I can never seem to get through on the phone to them these days in order to find out more.....

    https://www.business.rbs.co.uk/busi...17FE52CB33480A490D4C%40AdobeOrg|TS=1540462543

    How come they call it FreeAgent when it`s £20 a month ? ! ? That`s £240 a year to be paying for the privilege of being able to pay HMRC, sounds fair to me, not.
     
    Posted: Oct 25, 2018 By: Justin Smith Member since: Jun 6, 2012
    #77
  18. GillespieBS

    GillespieBS UKBF Regular Free Member

    348 52
    Try Natwest (as I said) - they are part of the RBS group and you will get through.

    Best of luck
     
    Posted: Oct 25, 2018 By: GillespieBS Member since: Apr 11, 2008
    #78
  19. UK Contractor Accountant

    UK Contractor Accountant UKBF Big Shot Full Member - Verified Business

    4,691 787
    FreeAgent is not really geared for retailers!

    Its free for RBS/Natwest as they bought it earlier this year.
     
    Posted: Oct 25, 2018 By: UK Contractor Accountant Member since: Sep 18, 2013
    #79
  20. Justin Smith

    Justin Smith UKBF Enthusiast Full Member

    577 59
    How do you mean it`s not really geared for retailers ?
     
    Posted: Oct 26, 2018 By: Justin Smith Member since: Jun 6, 2012
    #80