VAT returns "to be submitted digitally"

Discussion in 'Accounts & Finance' started by Justin Smith, Oct 17, 2018.

  1. Justin Smith

    Justin Smith UKBF Enthusiast Full Member

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    I`ve just had this potentially worrying message from HMRC :

    We are changing the way you submit your VAT Returns

    From April 2019, VAT registered businesses with a turnover of £85,000 or above must use relevant third party software to submit their VAT Returns.

    What the hell does that mean ? ! ?
    I do my books and VAT manually on paper but then submit it digitally now, what`s the difference ?
     
    Posted: Oct 17, 2018 By: Justin Smith Member since: Jun 6, 2012
    #1
  2. Alan

    Alan UKBF Legend Full Member - Verified Business

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    From April 2019 - you wont be allowed to do your books manually if you are over the VAT threshold, so you will have to use 'relevant third party' software to keep your records, and the 'relevant third party software' must be able to communicate with the HMRC API

    See 'Making Tax Digital'.
     
    Posted: Oct 17, 2018 By: Alan Member since: Aug 16, 2011
    #2
  3. Scalloway

    Scalloway UKBF Legend Free Member

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    Posted: Oct 17, 2018 By: Scalloway Member since: Jun 6, 2010
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  4. Justin Smith

    Justin Smith UKBF Enthusiast Full Member

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    WHAT ! ! !
    That's unbelievable. They`re telling me, a private business owner how I have to do my books ?And I thought the Tories were supposed to be business friendly !
    Who is going to teach me how to do use that software ? Who is going to pay for it ? I don`t want to use it, life`s complicated enough. We`re not that far over the VAT threshold anyway.
    I really don`t need this.....
     
    Posted: Oct 17, 2018 By: Justin Smith Member since: Jun 6, 2012
    #4
  5. KM-Tiger

    KM-Tiger UKBF Legend Full Member - Verified Business

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    It doesn't have to be expensive or complicated.

    I use Accounts Portal, which at £10/month is a bargain. Once you are used to it it will save you time compared to a manual paper system.
     
    Posted: Oct 17, 2018 By: KM-Tiger Member since: Aug 10, 2003
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  6. Justin Smith

    Justin Smith UKBF Enthusiast Full Member

    576 59
    I do my own books and accounts * (with a bit of help from my ex accountant Dad) myself, and it`s all on paper, as are all our invoices. There are large things like the cost (why should I pay £120 a year so I can pay HMRC ! It`s obscene) and I`ll have to change my whole way of doing my books. Whatever happens I know this is going to be a load of stress and hassle. It`s not out of the question they`ll demand electronic books sooner or later. But there are also smaller things, our work PC is in a place where it`s not convenient to get put reams of invoices to do my books !

    * Technically I don`t think I actually need to have a set of accounts, I just do it because my Dad used to do it for me !
     
    Posted: Oct 17, 2018 By: Justin Smith Member since: Jun 6, 2012
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  7. Justin Smith

    Justin Smith UKBF Enthusiast Full Member

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    When HMRC told everyone they had to do PAYE digitally they supplied the software "Basic PAYE Tools", why are they not doing that this time ?
     
    Posted: Oct 17, 2018 By: Justin Smith Member since: Jun 6, 2012
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  8. atmosbob

    atmosbob UKBF Ace Free Member

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    Posted: Oct 17, 2018 By: atmosbob Member since: Oct 26, 2009
    #8
  9. UK Contractor Accountant

    UK Contractor Accountant UKBF Big Shot Full Member - Verified Business

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    Don't need to pay £120 + per year.

    Take a look at Quickfile - it's free for small/medium size businesses.

    or move to an area with poor/no Internet. you can get exemption from MTD then.
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2018
    Posted: Oct 17, 2018 By: UK Contractor Accountant Member since: Sep 18, 2013
    #9
  10. urstop

    urstop UKBF Contributor Free Member

    50 6
    You can also try this, its free, online solution. Look at the video, looks very easy to use as well

    taxoptimiser.co.uk
     
    Posted: Oct 17, 2018 By: urstop Member since: Feb 22, 2013
    #10
  11. Its4john

    Its4john UKBF Regular Free Member

    137 11
    Do company annual accounts need to be done digitally now?
    Or is that still to come?
     
    Posted: Oct 17, 2018 By: Its4john Member since: Nov 10, 2017
    #11
  12. Justin Smith

    Justin Smith UKBF Enthusiast Full Member

    576 59
    How will moving to a digital VAT system save me significant amounts of time ? The things which take the most time when using my paper based system is entering the data and paying the suppliers, that will be just the same. Surely it won`t be any faster entering the data via a keyboard than with a pencil, and the latter is more flexible, for instance I can change cost centres whenever I want. Paying the suppliers will be no quicker at all. Having to do my accounts digitally will mean calculating the VAT will be quicker, but, to be frank, that bit doesn`t actually take that long anyway.
     
    Posted: Oct 17, 2018 By: Justin Smith Member since: Jun 6, 2012
    #12
  13. Justin Smith

    Justin Smith UKBF Enthusiast Full Member

    576 59
    My opinion of politicians has never been high, though I admit that over the last two and a half years it`s nose dived..... But I just read a quote from Kelly Tolhurst, the Tory "Minister For Small Business" which made me swear involuntarily. She said "I`m determined to do my best to represent the true voice of business" We`ll forget all the unwanted problems of Brexit and just concentrate on the fact she is an enthusiast for this new Digital VAT. There`s more "Digitalisation is the way to go, it`s all about making it easier for business". BOLL0X. Dos she really expect us to believe that politician`s forked tongue take on it ? It`s all about saving the Govt some money and putting the costs onto business.
     
    Posted: Oct 17, 2018 By: Justin Smith Member since: Jun 6, 2012
    #13
  14. Mr D

    Mr D UKBF Legend Free Member

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    Government has been telling you all along how you have to do your books when presenting information away from yourself.
    You doing VAT return now you are not deciding how to present things and what information to give - that's decided for you.
     
    Posted: Oct 17, 2018 By: Mr D Member since: Feb 12, 2017
    #14
  15. Mr D

    Mr D UKBF Legend Free Member

    16,820 1,883
    So don't pay HMRC. Reduce your turnover below threshold or end your business.

    How you set up your working area is of course up to you. Subject to H&S etc.
     
    Posted: Oct 17, 2018 By: Mr D Member since: Feb 12, 2017
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  16. Mr D

    Mr D UKBF Legend Free Member

    16,820 1,883
    Perhaps because they don't want to charge you extra tax to pay for giving you free software anymore?
     
    Posted: Oct 17, 2018 By: Mr D Member since: Feb 12, 2017
    #16
  17. Alan

    Alan UKBF Legend Full Member - Verified Business

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    As of today, you can still submit paper accounts to CH if they meet the required format. So it is still to come, but as most accountants file electronically I guess it wont be long.
     
    Posted: Oct 17, 2018 By: Alan Member since: Aug 16, 2011
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  18. Justin Smith

    Justin Smith UKBF Enthusiast Full Member

    576 59
    TBH if I were a bit older this could have been the straw which broke the camels back, I`d wind up the business and retire. I suspect there a significant number of other small business men who feel the same way. It`d be interesting to know how many are encouraged to retire early because of this.
     
    Posted: Oct 18, 2018 By: Justin Smith Member since: Jun 6, 2012
    #18
  19. Justin Smith

    Justin Smith UKBF Enthusiast Full Member

    576 59
    This is the thing I don`t understand, I already file and pay my VAT electronically, so why are the Govt pushing this about doing ones own accounts electronically ? That is to say the bit of ones books for ones own use. One wonders what will come next.
    As I`ve said before what makes this all the more annoying, and out of order, is when PAYE had to filed electronically the HMRC provided the software and, critically, the support (that`s phone support, not being directed to You Tube videos or forums).
    I really think the Govt are totally out of order on this one, I despise politicians.....
     
    Posted: Oct 18, 2018 By: Justin Smith Member since: Jun 6, 2012
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  20. Mark T Jones

    Mark T Jones UKBF Big Shot Full Member

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    The thing is, you are part of a small minority of businesses who are actually efficient and serious with a paper-based system It is literally a dying art. Until last December my accountant was one, too. Sadly he lost his eye-sight and has now had a stroke I’m genuinely very upset about this, but it has left me with a hell of a mess to clear up

    The vast majority of serious small businesses are already somewhat electronic so this will be a relatively small step - probably quite a welcome one

    Then there are the millions of not serious small business owners (self proclaimed entrepreneurs) who have no systems whatsoever, who just bumble along ignoring tax, or actively avoiding it until the s**t hits the fan. They often post on the accounts or insolvency forum. - they are also often the ones who whine about Starbucks etc

    In the ‘enterprise’ or ‘gig’ economy this last group is a huge problem not just for HMRC but for the country as a whole, and is these who will be brought into line by the new system

    I hope that HMRC will be sensible and sensitive in the implementation phase, but overall I’d say this is a very positive step
     
    Posted: Oct 18, 2018 By: Mark T Jones Member since: Nov 4, 2015
    #20