VAT returns "to be submitted digitally"

[Justin Smith]

You are clearly not adaptable to change and that's OK, yes I am surprised you are in business and have any customers with your attitude but maybe some people like dealing with the obnoxious. For everyone else's benefit HMRC have already said if it's not reasonably practicable for you to use digital tools to keep your business records or submit your VAT Returns because of age, disability, remoteness of location or for any other reason you don't have to.

End of story.

Or if you would rather spend your whole day moaning on here to people who cannot change the law, likely don't give a stuff about your narrow minded, ill-thought through points, ignore their helpful advice and rant and rave about how difficult everything is.. then give up. You don't have to run a business and you're literally just wasting everyones time when they could be supporting people without a rod up their a***...

Generally speaking being personal and offensive is something I avoid. As it happens I`m not being obnoxious by any reasonable definition, so I`m at a loss to understand where you are even coming from. Unfortunately, it`s a fact that the internet does tend to bring out some people`s worst side.

Not adaptable to change ? I`ve had to change the direction of my business at least twice and possibly three times since I started it in 1994. Of the specialist aerial retailers (in a slowly shrinking market) I`m the only one left, all the others have gone bust, so one would have thought I must be doing something right. What I`m not happy about doing is spending a load of time learning a new system which will not directly help my business, only the HMRC, TBH I can`t understand why you find that surprising.

As for the implication our customers find our service substandard or unhelpful in any way whatsoever I think you`ll find you`re very far from the reality on that one. I can`t actually remember when we last had a dissatisfied customer, certainly one who actually complained to us. As far as I remember every review on Google or Trustpilot is 5 stars, apart from two which were only 4, but some people only give 4 no latter how happy they are, so perhaps we can`t complain about that.

 

[Justin Smith]

The difference between people watching an HMRC webinar and a child in school is motivation. If the average child was sat at home looking at a screen for their education most of their time would be spent on social media. As a business owner you want to run your business properly so you will pay attention to your online learning.

You are correct about motivation, but, at the same time, I`m sure you`d agree that having someone actually showing you what to do and specifically answering ones questions, is far better than a You Tube video. But the HMRC want to do this on the cheap, and most business organisations seem to think that`ll come back to bite them on the bum. It`s interesting that those same organisations, and in fact some of the other small business owners I know who aren't happy about all this, don`t come on here. Perhaps they`re put off by some of the personal comments, not from your goodself I hasten to add.

 

[Justin Smith]

GOV/UK website :

"The Government further announced in March 2019 that they would focus on supporting businesses to transition, and will therefore not be mandating MTD for any new taxes or businesses in 2020. Businesses can get involved in the Income Tax pilot now on a voluntary basis."

Can anyone explain exactly what this means ? ! ?
Do I have to use MTD software from next week or not ?

 

[johndon68]

As I understand it, it means that MTD will only apply to VAT for now and, yes, if you are VAT Registered AND over the VAT Threshold, you have to use MTD from April onwards.

John

 

[UK Contractor Accountant]

will therefore not be mandating MTD for any new taxes or businesses in 2020. B

due to Brexit related projects.

MTD for Income Tax likely to start from April 2021 - will then need to submit 3 quarterly Profit & Loss figures and then a final quarter one with all the rubbish on such as add backs, capital allowance claims etc

 

[paulears]

I guess you'll have to make a decision - to either comply, or not. As I understand it, you could simply do your VAT in the old way, and simply credit that amount to the HMRC account. You would have paid the correct VAT, and could hold your hands up and say I paid, in full and we're arguing about the payment method. I think they'd not refund the money and ask for it electronically, that would be daft - but I bet you'd be at the top of the pile for a VAT inspection, which would be the result of you having a sulk and trying to object to their new system. As the tax man, they can make their own rules up any time the feel like it, so why fight? If you are turning over enough to remain registered, I'd have thought your accountant would be a friend - not just another overhead? Have you actually asked them what the cost of submitting a return for you would be? If it was £X what would be worth it to not be in HMRCs spotlight. We get you do not like it, or approve, or think it sensible - but it's tough really.

I suspect that things are not going too well - my final payment t on the old system did not go well. They did not take the money, but the computer said that I had paid. In the end I had to make a manual payment. I note their web site now contains less "must" and "will" comments, and they are now "may" and "could" - so you might find they do NOT turn the old system off, if you didn't sign up to the pilot.

 

[Justin Smith]

I guess you'll have to make a decision - to either comply, or not. As I understand it, you could simply do your VAT in the old way, and simply credit that amount to the HMRC account. You would have paid the correct VAT, and could hold your hands up and say I paid, in full and we're arguing about the payment method. I think they'd not refund the money and ask for it electronically, that would be daft - but I bet you'd be at the top of the pile for a VAT inspection, which would be the result of you having a sulk and trying to object to their new system. As the tax man, they can make their own rules up any time the feel like it, so why fight? If you are turning over enough to remain registered, I'd have thought your accountant would be a friend - not just another overhead? Have you actually asked them what the cost of submitting a return for you would be? If it was £X what would be worth it to not be in HMRCs spotlight. We get you do not like it, or approve, or think it sensible - but it's tough really.

I suspect that things are not going too well - my final payment t on the old system did not go well. They did not take the money, but the computer said that I had paid. In the end I had to make a manual payment. I note their web site now contains less "must" and "will" comments, and they are now "may" and "could" - so you might find they do NOT turn the old system off, if you didn't sign up to the pilot.

Will you be able to pay them electronically or any other way, without using the new system ? Does anyone know ?

I wouldn`t have thought I`d have much to fear from a VAT inspection, my books are pretty well in order, in fact it might be quiet interesting !

BTW, I don`t have an accountant, I do my own books and accounts, that`s the problem. I could get an accountant to do it all, but it`d cost me £100 a quarter, and that`s if I`d basically done all the books on paper (as opposed to just presenting him with a pile of customer and supplier invoices) so it was easy for him. In addition there`d be another charge of £200 for the year end accounts. That`s £600 thanks very much, and I`d have gained precisely nothing.

 

[paulears]

Well, my accountancy for a sole trader business is now getting on form a grand a year, and I'm very happy with the results, and looking at my self-assessment returns, there are figures in boxes that I would have left blank. I don't see how somebody like me is able to know what is claimable, what is reasonable, and as mine once said - you don't know, what you don't know.

 

[paulears]

HMRC are going to say this on April 1st.

During the first year of VAT mandation, HMRC will take a light touch approach to penalties by not issuing filing or record keeping penalties where businesses are doing their best to comply with MTD.

A light touch? Hmmmmmmmmmmm

 

[Justin Smith]

HMRC are going to say this on April 1st.
A light touch? Hmmmmmmmmmmm

What exactly does that mean though, "a light touch" ?
What will they say if, when the first VAT payment is due (in late July) I have been unable to work out how to do my VAT using a (for me) completely new system, and phone them up saying, I haven`t been able to work out how to do it using this software, but I think I owe you £XXXX ? How do you want me to pay it ?

Incidentally, as regards payments, will one`s VAT still be able to pay by card ? That is to say NOT using DD ? I really don`t want to use DD, I hate having large variable outgoings (effectively) outside of my control.

 

[Scalloway]

As far as I am aware there is no change in payment methods. VAT penalties tend to be value based so I would think if you paid as close to what you should have paid then you will avoid penalty.

I am not sure if there would be a penalty for not submitting the form on time.

 

[Justin Smith]

Thanks for that Scalloway. One assumes they will eventually start penalising one for not submitting the VAT returns/ info in their newly required manner, that`s what they`ve said isn`t it, everyone has to do so whether they want to or not !
It`ll be interesting to see if the present "Submit your VAT return" page is still available for VAT returns after the 1st April.

Incidentally Scalloway, my memory it not what it was, did I ever show you this link to Scalloway TV Transmitter.

 

[Scalloway]

It rings a bell. Thanks for reminding me though.