Trademark query - R in a circle or TM sign???

[legally_blonde]

Hi

I've just started my own business and wanted a logo designed with my business name and with the R in a circle and the TM logo (sorry but I don't know how to add the signs from my keyboard!)

The chap designing the logo said I should have one or the other, but definitely not both. Does it really make any difference which one I choose? I think the R in a circle looks better personally.

I'd be very grateful for any help!

Thanks
Vix

 

[Attaintm]

Have a look at this link

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trademark

Hope it helps!

 

[legally_blonde]

Attaintm - thank you for the link, it makes for interesting reading!

Trademarkroom - criminal offence?! That seems a little OTT but thank you for the advance warning!

 

[KateCB]

I think that tradmarkroom means that if you SAY it is a Registered trademark (R), when it ISN'T then it is a criminal offence -Registered trademarks cost time and money to get, and are then a legal way of saying 'this is mine - copy it and I sue you!' You can use TM for unregistered, but its not ideal, as because it isn't registered, it can legally be used by others, and even REGISTERED by others, and then it is YOU who is in trouble as you can no longer use it!

If you want to show something as trademarked, pay to have the searches done and the device as the trademark people call logo's etc registered, then you can use the (R) legally and as long as you renew (10 years I think for most things) the registration, no-one else can use it.

 

[Eagle]

™ is normally used to demonstrate that something is being used on a 'trademark sense'. As pointed out, best protection is to register it and it is indeed illegal to use ® if not registered.

Cheers,

Eagle®

 

[Trademarkroom]

All good advice. If you cannot afford the legal fees then do it yourself. Use the Intellectual Property Office;they are very helpful and if your application is a simple one, there is no reason why you cannot do it yourself
Good luck
Michael
Trademarkroom.com

 

[obscure]

Trademarkroom - criminal offence?! That seems a little OTT but thank you for the advance warning!

But none the less correct. Falsely claiming to have a registered trademark by displaying the ® is an offence.

 

[mhall]

People pay a lot of money to get their Trademark registered ( ® ) and yes, to use it without you actually having gone through the process is a CRIMINAL offence, and rightly so. It is a very respected and well thought through process.

Many people use ™, but you could actually say it stands for "Totally Meaningless" - whilst most people will see it as you wanting the mark as your trade mark, and most people use it to show others they are going through the process, it means nothing, and, in itself, will give you virtually no protection in law.

It's not THAT difficult to do it yourself, I've done it a couple of times at a cost of around £300 - £500 (depending on the number of "classses") but if you are unsure, there are plenty of IP people who will guide you through the process. As KateCB points out - using ™ and not going through the process is a dangerous route as it won't scare off a lot of people, but many people do use it purely because it looks good on marketing material sometimes.

© 2011

 

[Deleted member 13430]

The following may of use on 'correct use of a trade mark':-

http://www.hgf.com/Correct use of a trade mark FINAL.pdf

 

[Nick Dougan]

Hi Mhall, I like the "totally meaningless" comment, although I think that that's overstating the matter a little. If you look at the brochures and websites of even some very parge corporations you'll probably find a combination of TM and (R). Dulux paints spring to mind, for example.

Claiming TM is rather like putting (c) for copyright on something you've written: it's not strictly necessary, but it stakes out that you are claiming intellectual property rights. The problem with unregistered rights is that taking action via the courts is bound to be very much more expensive than where your sole right to use a trade mark has been established by registration.

So, legally blonde, I'd certainly check that no one else is using your proposed trading name - you can achieve a lot just with google, althoug a trade mark attorney will have access to more search tools, and if not I'd start off by claiming it with a TM. While you're at it you may want to register a limited company in the name and register the relevant internet domain names too. But before you've invested too much time and money in building a brand around the name it would be a good investment to register a trade mark and protect yourself from deliberate - or accidental - copying in the future.

Good luck with the new business, Nick

 

[ThePublisher]

I have two logos, one is a registered trademark with the (R) symbol, the other I use TM against it. The reason being that I was unable to register my chosen name in the class I needed to use as somebody else has already registered the first half of my name in that class. I use the TM in order to show that I'm using my name in the trademarked sense although I'm unable to go for full registration.

 

[Nick Dougan]

Hi Publisher,

I'm intrigued by your post. If you coudn't register a trade mark because someone else had already done so, don't you think that you risk infringing the trade mark of the company that has done so?

You might sensibly take some advice if you haven't done so already. I recommend the foirm Brookes Batchellor LLP, but if you're not in Kent or London you can easily find a local one.

If there's any doubt about you owning the IP in your trading styles, wouldn't it be worth changing them sooner rather than later so that you can register them and there is no doubt?

N:|

 

[Nick Dougan]

Following my post above, I recommend http://www.bb-ip.com/index.php/trademarks/

 

[ThePublisher]

Hi Publisher,

I'm intrigued by your post. If you coudn't register a trade mark because someone else had already done so, don't you think that you risk infringing the trade mark of the company that has done so?

You might sensibly take some advice if you haven't done so already. I recommend the foirm Brookes Batchellor LLP, but if you're not in Kent or London you can easily find a local one.

If there's any doubt about you owning the IP in your trading styles, wouldn't it be worth changing them sooner rather than later so that you can register them and there is no doubt?

N:|

I knew somebody would ask this.

I publish magazines. I tried registering one of my publication titles, shall we say 'Crossroad Times' (it's not Crossroad Times, I'm just using this as an example) in the relevant class. Somebody else has already registered the word Crossroad. The IPO won't let me register Crossroad Times in case the trademark owner wishes to expand on their use of the word Crossroad with regards to the class in which it is registered. The reality is they aren't in the same business as I am, they appear to have protected the use of the word because they print manuals relating to their business (which as far as I can see is software).

The practicality is there are many other publications around the country called Crossroad Exeter, Crossroad Publications, Crossroad Brighton etc etc. I know some of the publishers of these magazines. Neither I nor they have ever been contacted by the trademark owner suggesting there is a problem. I have been publishing my magazine for over 6 years and have a related website so it's not like they can't find out about me. Indeed when the IPO refused my registration of my mark I wrote to the trademark owner including a copy of my publication asking if they would allow my registration to proceed but never received a reply so dropped the matter.

No I have no intention of changing my trading style.

 

[jules12345]

I think that tradmarkroom means that if you SAY it is a Registered trademark (R), when it ISN'T then it is a criminal offence -Registered trademarks cost time and money to get, and are then a legal way of saying 'this is mine - copy it and I sue you!' You can use TM for unregistered, but its not ideal, as because it isn't registered, it can legally be used by others, and even REGISTERED by others, and then it is YOU who is in trouble as you can no longer use it!

If you want to show something as trademarked, pay to have the searches done and the device as the trademark people call logo's etc registered, then you can use the (R) legally and as long as you renew (10 years I think for most things) the registration, no-one else can use it.

Think on this and think about the domain name in regards to your trademark -- they may register the TM etc etc but they cant have your domain name.