I think its wholly proportional, and I'd expect Muslims too aswell.
But that is what I am trying to explain, they don't see it as proportional. Even those of us that totally disagree with her thought process feel it was heavy handed.
Who was she in contact with? I have just read what is in the press and haven't seen anything about who she contacted or this business of trying to pay money. Maybe that information would change my mind.
What did she expect if they found till receipts with stuff like she wrote on it... To do that at work and not even hide the evidence takes a disturbed mind.
I agree, so why isn't she under medical supervision? We (there it is again - I mean the UK) have arrested plenty of potential terrorists and how many had notebooks full of rantings? She is clearly in need of mental health care, not prison.
You apply its us feeding the fire, but its not,
I am sorry but at times it is, our government are not innocent victims in all this mess.
its the fact that moderate Muslims stand vocally offended and can't differentiate between themselves and those who have hi-jacked the name of Islam.
Most of us can and do differentiate very clearly but have no idea what we can do about it. I don't know any terrorists, so how can I stop them or re-educate them? I suppose I could write a letter to bin Laden c/o Afghanistan - maybe it would get there?!
This makes the extreme ones think people are on their side.
Forgive me but that is so wrong. The extremists
are told regularly that they are wrong and they do not speak for us. They answer 'you are kaffir' (meaning unbelievers). I hear this all the time, 'moderate Muslims must speak out' and we do (I could fill pages with links to moderate Muslims speaking out) but what do we do if we are not listened to?
Just look at projects like Salaam/Shalom radio in the UK (Muslims and Jews working together for peace). Why wasn't that plastered all over our press and tv?
British Muslims are starting to take the stand and we heard it this week. (But by heck we seen the other side in Sudan!)
Yes they are and it will be a slow process I am afraid. Look at the protests in Glasgow, Muslims marched against the terrorist attack. Again, how much press time did that get? This is what I am saying, the media is only interested in the negative, it sells better.
What I am suggesting is that the UK needs to educate itself, not through the media but through moderate scholars. When you understand what the truth is you can then fight against the lies and misconceptions. If you just accept the lies and misconceptions then the devil grows horns.
The other issue is that in the Middle East people believe our moderate scholars have been 'swayed' by living in the west. So why isn't the government arranging an annual meeting, bringing Eastern and Western scholars together so they can all sing from the same hymn book?
We don't kidnap people, nor waterboard...
I am afraid we do and much worse besides, although not to the degree of the US who in my opinion have gone doo lally tap in the first order.
If the annoyed British Muslims stood up and told America to stop, marched in the name of humanity and not religion.
Yes we marched about Iraq in the UK - did the government withdraw from the war? Yet you think we can change US policy? The majority of Americans are against the war, they march and protest but has it made any difference?
No we are not the government but somebody relected Blair 3 times. What signal do you think that sends to the Iraqi's and Palestinians? In the same way you talk above about radical Muslims thinking we support them because we don't speak out loudly enough, people assume that we keep electing this **** person so we must support his policies on Iraq/Palestine/Israel.
Do you see how it works both ways? A vast majority of Muslims don't support terrorism but we are tarred with the same brush - well guess what happens every time Blair or Bush is re-elected?
I can't - but thats the point... Its being told to these people who are brainwashed to believe it... Suicide might be forbidden, but call it je-had (I apologise for the spelling of that !) and is it now forbidden? It appears not.
Jihad is a duty. The word jihad translates as 'struggle' and every Muslim has two forms of Jihad. One is an internal personal struggle to follow the faith correctly and the other is war against oppression. However, there are very strict prohibitions, which includes being
forbidden to kill a non combatant, animals or even cut down trees - you can only fight those that are actively fighting you. The nutters teach that the UK is the oppressor of Iraq therefore every citizen of the UK is a combatant - utter cr*p but it is what they teach and they are very clever at teaching it.
An example - In Afghanistan the terrorists now pick uneducated young men as suicide bombers. They put vests on them, with a remote controlled detonator. The young man is told that when the time is right G-d Himself will detonate the explosives.
These young men believe it, they don't press a button so to them it must be G-d that does it. Other young men are told to watch, they see he doesn't press a button and hey presto they see a miracle and another group are ready to die for G-d.
This is where education comes into it, get moderate scholars into the education system and ban the nutters before our youth start falling for the same insanity.
It seems like all leaders in exile end up in the UK.
So at what point are we going to stop importing these terrorist groups? Sorry but it is like saying we (the British) love dogs so we are going to take in dogs with rabies. Then we complain when the dog bites us - it doesn't make sense and we must stop it.
Remember the football thugs, everyone got tarred with that until the normal decent supporters kicked out the scum themselves.
And many mosques are now stopping these people from taking over, it is a slow process and people had to learn the hard way I am afraid.
I hate "The West", its far to broad really... But focusing on Britain - Take Dr Baki from the Muslim Council of Britain. His recent comments were terrible, yet he is the main man speaking for the faith.
You would need to give me a clue as to what Dr Bari said. He is not the main man speaking for the faith and is not an Islamic scholar. He did say this recently, which I do agree with:
"Terrorists are terrorists, they may use religion but we shouldn't say Muslim terrorists, it stigmatises the whole community. We never called the IRA Catholic terrorists."
Why our Prime Minister didn't say anything only he knows - for sure the rest of the country called for it.
So you accept that our citizens wanted our democratically elected government to stop something but it didn't stop. So just how do you think we moderate Muslims can stop terrorists?
The West put as a single club all believing in the same thing and were vastly different.
I agree we are different - until it comes to politics and then 'we' allow the US to lead us around by the nose and the world watches and laughs. I can assure you that in the Mid East there is zero respect for our government because time and again they have followed the US even against the peoples wishes.
Then add the incredible idea of appointing Blair as 'peace envoy' to the Middle East (which bunch of bloody nutters came up with that idea). It would be laughable if it wasn't such a reflection of the 'wests' views on the ME.
Britain learned from the IRA (not quickly, but we did), we understand that you need to talk
So why after the election of Hamas did Bush immediately say 'do not talk to them' and our government said 'yeah ok sir'? We should know better not inviting them to peace talks has just given them more ammunition to recruit more terrorists to attack Israel.
But its the US again, and there unrelenting support for Israel no matter what.
Unfortunately that is one of the main issues within radical Islam. Even moderates that are happy to live side by side with Jews and accept an Israeli state are finding that bitter pill too hard to swallow. And the UK just follows along with the US.
I used to have huge fights with my husband about the political situation in the ME (I supported the west - quite fanatically at times). Then during the Lebanon war last year I watched Bush standing in front of boxes of arms to be sent to Israel and it was a rude awakening for me. That is when I started to see things from both sides (well trying to anyway).
Tonight they have stopped the supply of Petrol! And now the generators in the hospitals are about to stop... Just how stupid are they to think this will help anyone.
Have you looked up how many Palestinians have died in the last 2 months trying to get to hospitals? The ambulances are not allowed on 'Jewish only' roads and 6 hours at each checkpoint tends not to help when your life is at risk. But the UK & US governments are doing what about it? Can you find anything in the Geneva convention that allows roads just for one faith? It is aparteid and our government sits and watches and does nothing. Then we re-elect them and the clear signal is sent that we support their stance.
My views about Israel are entirely political and not a reflection of my thoughts about their faith or right to exist.
