Taking a colleague to a meeting

[kate1]

Hi

Wonder if somebody could advise on this, a friend of mine has a second meeting due to his suspension, I think from what he is saying is that it has to be somebody from the company - my partner has been to a meeting with a colleague of ours and he never worked at the same place. Can anyone clarify.

Thanks in advance

 

[Merchant UK]

You do not have to take anyone from the same company to a meeting, you could even take your solicitor Now that would frighten them

Basically its just so that you have a witness as to whats been said or agreed, best bet would be to get someone outside of your workcircle

 

[sjbeale]

The law states it can be a trade union rep or work colleague. The work colleague has to be just that - someone from within the company. It is very rare that an external friend can be a companion although some companies do allow this. The employee can also take in a union rep if they pay into a union. That is even if the company does not recognise that union. Solicitors can not be present as a companion.

 

[kate1]

Karl Limpert can you clarify,

 

[kate1]

SJ Beale my partner attended a meeting that he didnt work for the company, think we need Karl to come along and clarify
l

 

[Merchant UK]

I think that if a company is making some serious allegation against you and you risk losing your job, benefits and even pension that you should be entitled to have a person attend with you at any meetings. It would be extremely bias to have a company employee, but would be far better having an appropriate adult of even someone with legal experience to ensure the law is being followed.

However, two recent cases have shown that in disciplinary matters where the result could have serious, career-threatening implications, it may be possible for an employee to have legal representation in the disciplinary meeting.In March 2009, in the case of R (on the application of G) v The Governors of X School, a music assistant was employed by the school, which began disciplinary proceedings for breach of trust following allegations of an improper relationship with a pupil.

The employee requested legal representation at the disciplinary hearing but their request was refused. The employee appealed arguing that the employer’s refusal was in breach of Article 6 of the European Convention of Human Rights. If the employee had been found in breach of trust, the employer had a duty to report him to the Secretary of State for Children, Schools and Families, and he could have been listed on the register for those who are unsuitable to work with children, and prevented working with children again.The Court found that in light of the seriousness of the potential consequences for the employee, that they should be permitted to bring a legal representative to the disciplinary meetings and not just a colleague or trade union representative. Had the employee been dismissed as a result of the disciplinary procedures, it would have effectively ended his career, and a claim for unfair dismissal in an employment tribunal would not be an adequate remedy.

In May 2009, the case of Kulkarni v Milton Keynes Hospital NHS Foundation Trust, involved a junior doctor facing charges of professional misconduct. He was accused of inappropriately examining a patient by placing a stethoscope under her knickers without her permission.The employee’s request to bring a legal representative was rejected by his employer, but he argued that he should have a legal representative present as the NHS is a monopoly employer for all doctors and dentists and so if the employee was dismissed from his post as a result of the professional misconduct charges, he would not be able to find alternative work as a doctor. The Court of Appeal found that the doctor was entitled to legal representation because he was entitled to a fair hearing under Article 6 of the European Convention on Human Rights (ECHR) and because he would not be able to find alternative work if dismissed as a result of the disciplinary hearing. Permission for the employer to appeal to the Supreme Court has been granted but there has been no indication yet of whether the employer will appeal.

It may be ok with the company, you just need to ask. as the examples above show it would also depend on what the person was employed as and if they risk losing the change to work in that particular employment as a result of losing their job.

I'll wait for Karl now

 

[kate1]

Thank you for that

 

[kate1]

Yea will wait for Karl, thank you though

 

[Merchant UK]

Yea will wait for Karl, thank you though

No worries what was the suspension for? do you know and would that stop that person from working in the same environment again??

 

[Jeff FV]

You are allowed work colleague or union rep only.

Within the last six months I've been through the redundancy process (don't worry - I was made redundant, but have found new employment, much, much better employer etc. etc.)

Throughout the process I had my union rep with me in all meetings, another colleague who was also up for redundancy (but in a different pool) was not in a union (more fool them - my rep. repaid my union fees investment many times over.) However her husband was a solicitor. She was not allowed to take him into meetings as he was not an official from a union or a work colleague.

 

[kate1]

Suspension was for "on something", ie alcohol, asked to leave premises, should have been escorted home etc, no he wasnt on anything their word against his

 

[ethical PR]

SJ Beale my partner attended a meeting that he didnt work for the company, think we need Karl to come along and clarify
l

Kate sure you didn't mean it to sound in any way negative, but S Beale is an HR expert, so saying you want Karl to come along and clarify, sounds like you don't value her advice. I think she is correct - it varies.

From my experience of sitting on disciplinaries for various organisations, most will only allow a member of staff/union rep to sit in, a few will alllow an outside third party.

The only way to be certain is for your friend to check his paperwork/company disciplinary procedures.

 

[sjbeale]

Thank you Ethical PR.

 

[MASSEY]

Maybe Karl wants you to pay for his advice

 

[mariefab]

I can't posts links, but google Employment Relations Act 1999 and see section 10 to find the legislation confirming sjbeale's advice.

 

[Steve Sellers]

Karl Limpert can you clarify,

As Simon says. Give him a call, and pay him - he's well worth his rate.

Kate sure you didn't mean it to sound in any way negative, but S Beale is an HR expert, so saying you want Karl to come along and clarify, sounds like you don't value her advice.

I dont think it does. It's just Karl has established himself as a respected voice on these forums. Coincidentely the majority of people who post on this forum [employment & hr] dont value professional advice hence coming here in the first place!

Solicitors can not be present as a companion.

You mean that there is no automatic right to have a solicitor. The right to take a trade union rep or colleague is enshrined in law, but there is no law stating who can not attend (well there is but it more talks about behaviour rather than who).

Interestingly this right, granted by virtue of ERA 1999, is only the starting point. Certain professions DO have a common law/professional right to take a solicitor into a disciplinary meeting (e.g. doctors, taxi drivers), and others also have the right to an advocate by virtue of the EA 2010. I have also successfully argued*** by virtue of the government white paper "valuing people" that those with a learning disability should have professional representation at a disciplinary/grievance.

 

[Employment Law Clinic]

Hi

Wonder if somebody could advise on this, a friend of mine has a second meeting due to his suspension, I think from what he is saying is that it has to be somebody from the company - my partner has been to a meeting with a colleague of ours and he never worked at the same place. Can anyone clarify.

Thanks in advance

I've missed UKBF - been rather busy (a matter for a separate thread). Thank you all for the mentions though, and sorry for the delay in replying.


The basic employment law on this is clear, and mentioned above: Section 10, Employment Relations Act 1999. Legally, the right to a companion only extends to a work colleague or a trade union official or accredited representative. For TU reps, the employee doesn't have to be a member of the union (which doesn't have to be recognised), it could even be a friend representing them who happens to be an accredited union rep.

Kate, your partner may have accompanied someone in the past, but this is at the discretion (or lack of knowledge) of the employer, not usually a legal right.

The right to be accompanied by a lawyer etc is exceptional, and does not arise for a standard disciplinary hearing, even if dismissal might be the outcome. For example, a nurse - who could lose the right to practice, not just practice at a particular hospital - may have wider rights, but a shop worker wouldn't.


Karl Limpert

 

[Employment Law Clinic]

...this information on who a companion can be is so freely available, there's nothing to justify a fee.


Knowing how to control companions, keep them in their place, or even having a script or an independent party for a disciplinary hearing, now that's a different matter....


Karl Limpert