SEO & Bull$hit
- Thread starter cjd
- Start date
As you will know, Google have a lot of linguistic, lexicographic et. al. information and some of this has been arranged by humans. It's quite comprehensive. For example there are ports from the ICU lib. that do things like this:
http://goo.gl/8QiDb
I would suggest that what Google do (since they have already apparently done a huge job of tagging adult terms) is go through the terms that get decent traffic+ and decide whether it would be appropriate to use (or vary the weight of) link text comprised of that term to influence SE results. For example, terms like [web design] and [seo] are generic terms and links using those terms should not pass 'keyword value'. On the other hand terms like [BBC] and [Radio 4] should pass value based on link text for reasons too obvious to state.
This way you would end up with results for terms like [web design] that actually list authoritative sites based on link authority and page content, rather than the mish-mash of PR4-6 spammed squibs that currently reside there. I would argue that it would in general not be viable for people to outrank sites based on authority as link authority is much harder to attain and more expensive to buy. I'm sure in the case of insurance, the SERPs would remain completely gamed, but I think a lot of SERPs would be irrevocable cleaned up.
I can see a few issues with this method, but on the whole I think it would be better. It would also turn the SEO industry up-side-down over night, which would be enjoyable to watch; and there would no doubt be a large number of companies doing the same as the one mentioned by the OP.
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B
bdw
Nobody said it was easy.
As their algo improves Google are however moving back towards ranking sites based on the quality of the content they find there.
http://googlewebmastercentral.blogspot.co.uk/2011/05/more-guidance-on-building-high-quality.html
.
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S
Suzuki
Thats not true at all. The only way they can rate the quality of content is to use external signals (usage, links, social media, interactions with it, trust of the site its hosted on, etc etc).
There is no possible way an algorithm can properly analyse the quality of content, just by looking at the content alone.
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Suzuki
I think its just Google blowing smoke. How can an algorithm tell the difference between a perfectly written (from a spelling, grammar and punctuation point of view) 5000 word article that is completely wrong in the facts in it, to a 300 word post on the same topic written by a university lecturer who is a world renowned expert on the subject, but can't spell very well?
Obviously I'm using an extreme example to make a point, but there is everything else in between - there is just no way it can be done
If you were going to algorithmically rate content, what signals could you use? I agree that demoting content that was littered with errors would be a good starting point for this algorithm but after you do that you're pretty much screwed. Spelling and article length and so on are not a valid indication of the actual quality.
Obviously I'm using an extreme example to make a point, but there is everything else in between - there is just no way it can be done
If you were going to algorithmically rate content, what signals could you use? I agree that demoting content that was littered with errors would be a good starting point for this algorithm but after you do that you're pretty much screwed. Spelling and article length and so on are not a valid indication of the actual quality.
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I agree 100%.
It can analyse text linguistically, but only human feedback will be able to say whether that text is good advice.
For example, I could write a page about how to get to Edinburgh Zoo from the city centre, where my advice would be to take a 26 or 31 eastwards towards Corstorphine.
Unfortunately for the reader, the zoo is to the west of the city centre. So, while you'd still get a #26 or #31, you'd take them in the other direction.
Google may be smart enough to realise that the word "Corstorphine" is closely related to Edinburgh Zoo (because it appears disproportionately on pages about the zoo).
It may also know that mentions of the 26 and 31 buses also often appear on pages about how to get to the zoo... so, linguistically, the page seems like "good content".
But, in reality - as any human that knows Edinburgh knows - it's rubbish.
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Well yeah but that would be deception and damn cruel to send them the opposite way..
And then VS the rest of the world, or SEO world.
Duplicate content is still an issue, let a lone any other smart or not so smart ways to create content.
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I often don't trust half of the stuff I read on the Internet, how to cook a cookie and it turns out to be a chocolate cake or is that just bad cooking skills?
That mean you trust 50% of it, you're very trusting
d
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I think the way the world classifies the cleverest people on the planet isn't the best way. Most education seems to be just recounting information in lengthy reports and following set rules.
This is an interest brief opinion on why experts aren't the best to solve problems - http://www.fastcoexist.com/1679589/why-experts-cant-solve-big-problems
The bit about BP is especially interesting.
Also with the cleverest people in the world why can G seem to make anything outside search work? Wave, Buzz??? Youtube only worked because it was already massive. Maybe their experts are all experts in propaganda and making organic serps ugly..
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Well lets look at blog comments. I know very little about coding but I'm pretty sure I could at least write a macro to filter a group of links into either A-blog comments or B-not blog comments.
Blog comment spam ruins blogs, takes up a lot of extra resources and discourages discussion. But it also increases your rankings on Google, might not get you number 1 for "loans" but for "buy"+"product name" searches it will get a weak site to the 1st page of Google the majority of the time.
Why can't the cleverest people in the world sort that out?
Why does 2nd, 3rd, 4th tier xrummer runs (10,000s of forum profiles) work so well? How can someone rank for "buy viagra" one of the spammiest keywords around by using the spammiest method?
Google employees might be clever in the educational and qualification sense but real world, loophole, problem solving abilities are very very poor.
Remember they cannot filter out blog networks, they had to MANUALLY just delete blogs from their index.. Again why can't the cleverest people in the world find an algorithmical way to devalue these links?
I didn't say that, I said the current edu way of measuring clever is wrong. EG I know someone whose phd based on studying the effect of tightropes on grass... WOW smart guy huh!
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A PhD doesn't prove someone is clever, it never has and never will. It does however show they have gone through a rigorous process of investigation and advanced man's understanding of a subject. It matters not what subject a PhD covers, it's the process and the tools people develop whilst going through the process to equip them for further academic research that are the takeaways of doing a PhD.
d
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A few years ago we were told banks employed the cleverest people on the planet. They created financial instruments so complex few could grasp them, least of all the bank bosses. We were told the systems couldn't fail, we were told the systems of bundling risky investments with copper bottomed investments could not go wrong. I'll leave others to decide if these 'clever' people were right or wrong.
I don't doubt Google has incredible intellectual capital at its disposal, however these people are attempting to patch up what is, in my view, a flawed search quality model.
d
I don't doubt Google has incredible intellectual capital at its disposal, however these people are attempting to patch up what is, in my view, a flawed search quality model.
d
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In academia a PhD is a process you go through to pursue a career in research. It's not like learning a subject and sitting an exam, it's a process.
It's similar to the process of achieving Chartered status in a profession. I would go so far as to say chartered status in industry is akin to PhD status in academia, each taking a similar length of time. It demonstrates not that you are clever, but that you have gone through a process.
It all depends on your definition of clever I suppose. Is someone with a degree in maths clever or good at maths?
d
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C
Chunkford
Has anyone actually been to Google HQ in London?
When I went it seemed a nice place, everyone was chatting away, meeting up discussing ideas, messing about.... very appplefied.
Certainty didn't come across as the hardcore work place like some firms I've worked at.
To me it looked more like an extension to the uni life they were all accustomed too.
When I went it seemed a nice place, everyone was chatting away, meeting up discussing ideas, messing about.... very appplefied.
Certainty didn't come across as the hardcore work place like some firms I've worked at.
To me it looked more like an extension to the uni life they were all accustomed too.
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START
1. Google looks for signs of quality;
2. 'Me too' sites use SEO to fake/emulate these;
3. Mediocre sites start to rank;
3. Google adjusts algo to compensate;
4. Me-too site owners wail, bloggers waffle, some old tricks work again;
GOTO 1.
Would be good if you could start with something that was:
Desired by many, which they'll pay for, which you can supply faster, cheaper or better than the other guy; you get the link love more easily.
Easier than shoving **** uphill.
1. Google looks for signs of quality;
2. 'Me too' sites use SEO to fake/emulate these;
3. Mediocre sites start to rank;
3. Google adjusts algo to compensate;
4. Me-too site owners wail, bloggers waffle, some old tricks work again;
GOTO 1.
Would be good if you could start with something that was:
Desired by many, which they'll pay for, which you can supply faster, cheaper or better than the other guy; you get the link love more easily.
Easier than shoving **** uphill.
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D
DomainsRegistrar
Slightly off op topic but seems to be an interest point - Phd, Bsc and any other formal qualification is not a measurement of intelligence, it shows that they have a good memory because all of the answers to questions, tests etc are tought and learned.
Intelligence cannot imo cannot be measured by exams
Intelligence cannot imo cannot be measured by exams
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Mmmm.... except PhD's are research based, as are at least a percentage of most MSc's. It's not just about learning the answers to questions I'm afraid, that's a myth perpetuated by people who have never eh.....learned answers to questions
d
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@OWG ha ha ha - you remember when that used to be the in thing.
I remember once taking on a client who's SEO wasn't working - When I first looked at the sit, checked the links, titles content..etc nothing seemed to be out of place. so then I stepped it up with a little trick I learned (more common sense).
If you need to know what Google thinks of your website, take a look at the cached version - then look at text only. (its the blue text link in the grey margin at top of screen for those who dont know what I am on about)
Strangely there was no content showing.
Why?
As OWG mentioned Google caught onto webmasters matching text colour to background colour to hide spammy text and repeated keywords. Blackhat technique numero uno.
unfortunately The client had White background layered with black upon which his text was White. Google had penalised his site for this.
A quick change of font colour and background shade and guy went to page one (position 4 on week 8 if memory serves me correct after all it was 2006
I remember once taking on a client who's SEO wasn't working - When I first looked at the sit, checked the links, titles content..etc nothing seemed to be out of place. so then I stepped it up with a little trick I learned (more common sense).
If you need to know what Google thinks of your website, take a look at the cached version - then look at text only. (its the blue text link in the grey margin at top of screen for those who dont know what I am on about)
Strangely there was no content showing.
Why?
As OWG mentioned Google caught onto webmasters matching text colour to background colour to hide spammy text and repeated keywords. Blackhat technique numero uno.
unfortunately The client had White background layered with black upon which his text was White. Google had penalised his site for this.
A quick change of font colour and background shade and guy went to page one (position 4 on week 8 if memory serves me correct after all it was 2006
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@OWG ha ha ha - you remember when that used to be the in thing.
I remember once taking on a client who's SEO wasn't working - When I first looked at the sit, checked the links, titles content..etc nothing seemed to be out of place. so then I stepped it up with a little trick I learned (more common sense).
If you need to know what Google thinks of your website, take a look at the cached version - then look at text only. (its the blue text link in the grey margin at top of screen for those who dont know what I am on about)
Strangely there was no content showing.
Why?
As OWG mentioned Google caught onto webmasters matching text colour to background colour to hide spammy text and repeated keywords. Blackhat technique numero uno.
unfortunately The client had White background layered with black upon which his text was White. Google had penalised his site for this.
A quick change of font colour and background shade and guy went to page one (position 4 on week 8 if memory serves me correct after all it was 2006
I still see guys ranking with Css - visible:none
and then theres the zindex 1000000000 some obscure positioning
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It is, however, a measure of knowledge about that particular subject.
If I wanted to find out something about mathematics, then I'd rather look at a page written by someone who had a PhD in Maths, than one written by someone who just failed their GCSE.
Wouldn't you?
Steve
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Interesting discussion.
The way I see it, Google is getting much, much better at distinguishing genuine quality / uniqueness of a website / business / business operator. Ways of 'faking it' are now much harder to achieve.
The resource needed to create a business / website with true quality is much harder to do and requires much more resource. Thus the cost of SEO is getting pushed up, knocking out budget firms and those who rely on budget firms.
The way I see it, Google is getting much, much better at distinguishing genuine quality / uniqueness of a website / business / business operator. Ways of 'faking it' are now much harder to achieve.
The resource needed to create a business / website with true quality is much harder to do and requires much more resource. Thus the cost of SEO is getting pushed up, knocking out budget firms and those who rely on budget firms.
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intelligence is your ability to reason as oppose to recalling information.
Hence the true mensa test is all about reasoning not knowledge.
Hence the true mensa test is all about reasoning not knowledge.
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There sure is a lot of really bad content out-there.. but hopefully with future updates this will become less and less
Well yeah but that would be deception and damn cruel to send them the opposite way..
And then VS the rest of the world, or SEO world.
Duplicate content is still an issue, let a lone any other smart or not so smart ways to create content.
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