SEO & Bull$hit

That'll be the site where there are 16 reviews giving us an average score of 4.2 out of 5. Where 81.3% would recommend us and where the only crap review was 2 years ago, contains a single sentence and was obviously posted by a crank?
Well I counted 4 'crap' reviews... And you fail to mention the customer who feels so strongly about how wonderful your service is that he/she has to defend you, albeit while failing to identify him/her self :p

I'm not trying to attack you... Just show you what a potential customer might see. And to respond to the cynical SEO bashing...:mad:

A good SEO - perhaps we should change the terminology - a good marketer would deal with these issues (and on site issues) properly. But then a good marketer is more expensive and some people find it hard to see beyond the expense to the value offered.
 
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webgeek

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That'll be the site where there are 16 reviews giving us an average score of 4.2 out of 5. Where 81.3% would recommend us and where the only crap review was 2 years ago, contains a single sentence and was obviously posted by a crank?

http://www.reviewcentre.com/reviews182513.html

In the interest of balance, this is the last one posted there:

Sounds like a bit of reputation management is required. The business of limiting damage from legit customers and immoral competitors is one to not overlook (obviously).
 
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TODonnell

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I searched in Google on 'voipfone review' and found only positive reviews. I didn't dig too deep but on the basis of what I saw I'd be happy to give them a go.

No one is going to get all 100% positive reviews (unless they hire a spam team and even then, they're fairly easy to spot).

There will always be people who are unhappy you didn't give them precisely what they wanted for 50P and a can of coke, immediately. Factor in the likely % overlap between OCD sufferers and people who post reviews of companies online ...

Bit of a pain that people can ding your reputation anonymously online, now, or boost it deceitfully. Like that travel site I read about(?)
 
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I once booked a hotel that was on Tripadvisor where the previous review was terrible. Only problem was that the person who wrote it hadn't stayed there. She was pee'd off because they had no rooms when she turned up on spec!

All about common sense. :)

.
 
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C

Consistency

I take no notice of reviews. All too often, they are wrote by people sat in their little bedroom paid by the company to do it or it is a rival or peed off user deliberately out to slate a company such as the one on another thread who says McDonalds ripped him off.

They are not worth the whatever they are written on.

I tried looking for a review thinking e-bay was different and it is more genuine but because they are reviews that are pressurised and the risk of negative feedback can be disastrous for the seller, buyers are just pushed into saying something such as "super delivery", "fast delivery" etc. Sometimes I am asked to leave a review before I have used the item.

How can I leave anything but "Well packaged", "Quick delivery".

I hunted recently through reviews to see if the product actually worked. Nothing at all, just delivery reports.
 
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I

iBusiness Forums

Its so difficult to know who to believe nowadays on SEO. I have a friend who does it full time and he suggested promoting my whitehat site using paid PR services, suggesting the links would give my site a boost in the SERPS.

So, I posted this on a SEO forum asking if this is considered a good idea. One of the Administrators of the forum said it might give a little traffic but has no effect on the SERPS.

Its a bit like scientists. They disagree over many theories despite their learned status.

Moral of the story? Ask questions and just see how it sits with your own viewpoint.
 
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RedEvo

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People are confused about SEO because they choose to be, because they want something for nothing, and because they think there are magic short cuts these mystical SEO gurus know about and others don't. Let's face it, these guys spend all their time at conferences high fiving other gurus, when was the last time they optimised a website a business actually relies on? Oh, and when they do actually work on a campaign it's usually for $10/15/20/50K a month, not thirty bob and a fried fish and 'where are my results, I paid you £25 and I'm still not all over the search rankings like a rash you rip-off merchant!!'.

This manifests itself as confusion and mayhem, but the bottom line is Google spells out in very simple language what to do to rank a page.

1. Create content for people relevant to the search queries they use - so your pages match what searchers need.
2. Use the important page elements for what they are designed for - to help the search engines understand what your page is about.
3. Make others aware of your content so (if it's any good) they link to it - to help search engines figure out your page is important.

If you want to make others aware of your content look for influencers in your field. Search in Google using something like intitle:"resources" my services/product or if you are willing to contribute content to show the world you know your stuff, and get a cheeky wee link back to your website, try intitle:"guest blog" my services/product. In case you are still confused here's a real example.

That's it. There's nothing more to it and all the noise is from people suggesting they have a secret formula or there are tricks you can use to fool Google. It's not hard, but it's hard work, which is why any offer promising to short cut this hard work is utter tosh, always was, always will be.

If you can't create something people will link to, use paid search, because Google's algo is link based, it uses links to automatically figure out the importance of a page. You really need to build a bridge and get over that one or give up.

The reason people are 'confused' is they just don't get the whole idea of a merit based ranking system. They believe they have a right to rank for a specific search based on some misplaced sense of their own importance an they think the guy who charges $40 has the answer.

Now, there are easy ways to promote a website that fall outside Google's T&C's and it's this area of SEO that people find confusing. However, if you ignore this, build for the long term, and use paid search for the short term, you can ignore all of this stuff, and I mean all of it.

Finally, SEO's didn't write Google's algo. They didn't decide the academic model of citations was suitable for a free for all non peer reviewed business environment, they didn't create a beast that can be easily manipulated where those manipulations are worth $$$$$$, they didn't create a paid search mechanism where the unwary can lose their shirt, nope, Google did all that all by themselves.

Frankly I'm sick of SEO's taking the wrap for a complex and broken search engine and for clueless web designers who build sites neither people nor search spiders can make head nor tail of. And before someone jumps in and suggests it's SEO's that have created the link market and the whole search manipulation, no they didn't, affiliate marketers did because they realised traffic was worth money, not least from AdSense, another brilliant money spinning web ruining idea from Google (and now Bing/facebook etc).

If you want to dominate the search rankings be the best, stop looking for short cuts, stop believing people who tell you they'll make you a million for £49/month or will build a squillion 'quality' links to your site for $much-cheapness, in short GET REAL!

Now, a cup of tea I think....

d
 
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Mystro

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Aug 20, 2009
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People are confused about SEO because they choose to be, because they want something for nothing, and because they think there are magic short cuts these mystical SEO gurus know about and others don't. Let's face it, these guys spend all their time at conferences high fiving other gurus, when was the last time they optimised a website a business actually relies on? Oh, and when they do actually work on a campaign it's usually for $10/15/20/50K a month, not thirty bob and a fried fish and 'where are my results, I paid you £25 and I'm still not all over the search rankings like a rash you rip-off merchant!!'.

This manifests itself as confusion and mayhem, but the bottom line is Google spells out in very simple language what to do to rank a page.

1. Create content for people relevant to the search queries they use - so your pages match what searchers need.
2. Use the important page elements for what they are designed for - to help the search engines understand what your page is about.
3. Make others aware of your content so (if it's any good) they link to it - to help search engines figure out your page is important.

If you want to make others aware of your content look for influencers in your field. Search in Google using something like intitle:"resources" my services/product or if you are willing to contribute content to show the world you know your stuff, and get a cheeky wee link back to your website, try intitle:"guest blog" my services/product. In case you are still confused here's a real example.

That's it. There's nothing more to it and all the noise is from people suggesting they have a secret formula or there are tricks you can use to fool Google. It's not hard, but it's hard work, which is why any offer promising to short cut this hard work is utter tosh, always was, always will be.

If you can't create something people will link to, use paid search, because Google's algo is link based, it uses links to automatically figure out the importance of a page. You really need to build a bridge and get over that one or give up.

The reason people are 'confused' is they just don't get the whole idea of a merit based ranking system. They believe they have a right to rank for a specific search based on some misplaced sense of their own importance an they think the guy who charges $40 has the answer.

Now, there are easy ways to promote a website that fall outside Google's T&C's and it's this area of SEO that people find confusing. However, if you ignore this, build for the long term, and use paid search for the short term, you can ignore all of this stuff, and I mean all of it.

Finally, SEO's didn't write Google's algo. They didn't decide the academic model of citations was suitable for a free for all non peer reviewed business environment, they didn't create a beast that can be easily manipulated where those manipulations are worth $$$$$$, they didn't create a paid search mechanism where the unwary can lose their shirt, nope, Google did all that all by themselves.

Frankly I'm sick of SEO's taking the wrap for a complex and broken search engine and for clueless web designers who build sites neither people nor search spiders can make head nor tail of. And before someone jumps in and suggests it's SEO's that have created the link market and the whole search manipulation, no they didn't, affiliate marketers did because they realised traffic was worth money, not least from AdSense, another brilliant money spinning web ruining idea from Google (and now Bing/facebook etc).

If you want to dominate the search rankings be the best, stop looking for short cuts, stop believing people who tell you they'll make you a million for £49/month or will build a squillion 'quality' links to your site for $much-cheapness, in short GET REAL!

Now, a cup of tea I think....

d


Nice Rant Dave

you deserve that cuppa now, maybe something stronger
 
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Nice, like the post red, and if people still don't get the drift, look at red's site and see what he's done. Love the comic book approach (even tho SEOman looks like a worm on steroids).
It's costs to create a great site, and if people aren't willing to put the time and effort in creating a resource then it's doomed for failure.

I especially like this bit.
The reason people are 'confused' is they just don't get the whole idea of a merit based ranking system. They believe they have a right to rank for a specific search based on some misplaced sense of their own importance an they think the guy who charges $40 has the answer.
 
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Mystro

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Nice, like the post red, and if people still don't get the drift, look at red's site and see what he's done. Love the comic book approach (even tho SEOman looks like a worm on steroids).
It's costs to create a great site, and if people aren't willing to put the time and effort in creating a resource then it's doomed for failure.

I especially like this bit.

Totally agree with that,
 
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I searched in Google on 'voipfone review' and found only positive reviews. I didn't dig too deep but on the basis of what I saw I'd be happy to give them a go.
OP found them without any difficulty or perhaps he already knew about them...

The anonymous guest defending his company just looks too good to be true, and possibly making the other reviews suspect.
No one is going to get all 100% positive reviews (unless they hire a spam team and even then, they're fairly easy to spot).
Agreed, however these things should be handled properly.
 
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I'm not trying to attack you... Just show you what a potential customer might see. And to respond to the cynical SEO bashing...
As an outsider looking in this looked like a very personal attack to me. Personally I think it is wrong for people in here to try to support their arguments by cherry picking off topic stuff from the websites of those with whom they disagree.

On this occasion the OP started a perfectly innocent thread and it was somehow twisted into a critical (and unrelated) analysis of his business. I think this tactic should be banned as it does nothing to promote transparency in the forum. :(



My 2p.
 
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cjd

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  • Nov 23, 2005
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    An update.

    The SEO company did not refund. A friend of ours is after them for £20,000. He has also lost almost all his traffic.
     
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    I think you've missed the point, they've done specifically what they told people they weren't going to do, which was mass link/article spinning. They got those customers because they were a previously trusted member with long standing that had been involved in the industry.
    Which post says this?
     
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    RadiusBPO

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    Devon at the moment.
    I think you've missed the point, they've done specifically what they told people they weren't going to do, which was mass link/article spinning. They got those customers because they were a previously trusted member with long standing that had been involved in the industry.

    They got those clients because of previous results which helped them become trusted. They followed the same pattern which worked for them and eventually were burned.

    Even the highest ranking SEO companies are getting their main money sites burned, SEO isn't risk free. I thought everyone knew this.
     
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    the problem with new comers to seo is that they see what works and believe this will b the case forever. This is not true. Things always change its part of life and part of Google evolution.
    Good SEO's adapt like a reed in the wind they bend to compensate - go against it an you will snap.

    i remember when gateway pages, multiple sites and keyword stuffing was standard practice. Now its black hat. who knows whats next
     
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    People are confused about SEO because they choose to be, because they want something for nothing, and because they think there are magic short cuts these mystical SEO gurus know about and others don't.

    No, i want an SEO i can trust. I don't want an anonymous child in a bedroom in Edinburgh (or wherever lets not get in to a debate). I want someone who isn't going to sell me something, i want someone who will work with us as a business partner and develop our main site and then our other sites which are crucial to our business and our employees futures.

    When it comes to websites, sometimes i just don't have time to do all the work. I've got people to call, i've got fires to put out (not literally, things happen, people break things, people get stuck in traffic etc) and i've got meetings to go to and ideas in my head. I don't have time to comb through a website and look for things, add code, add relevant page titles and research keywords. I want to TRUST someone else to do that for me.

    I've just seen so many bad stories about SEO companies, we're not talking of them taking £50 for a report and running we're talking about investing serious time and money (20k) and ending up with something worse than you started with. That stuff can KILL a business, it can make people lose their jobs.
     
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    directmarketingadvice

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    the problem with new comers to seo is that they see what works and believe this will b the case forever.

    Exactly.

    How much SEO is trying to trick google into thinking that your site is seen as an authority on your keywords?

    And how often is it done by getting links google mistakenly believes are unilateral "votes" from other websites?

    Now, to assume that google is never going to get smarter - despite all the PhDs they have working for them - and is never going to be able to identify (and downgrade) some of these rigged "votes" is fanciful.

    Of course google is going to get smarter. And, of course, some of the SEO techniques that work today have a shelf-life.

    (Which means some of the SEOs today have a shelf-life - they won't all be able to clear the bar when it gets raised.)

    So, unless SEO is sold with a lifetime money-back guarantee, I'd suggest you should treat it as a "make hay while the sun shines" form of marketing.

    (And hope that, for you, that sun will shine for many years.)

    Just my 2p,

    Steve
     
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    Of course google is going to get smarter. And, of course, some of the SEO techniques that work today have a shelf-life.
    Yes they do, but some SEO techniques that worked ten years ago still work today. The SEO tricks used by these companies are more likely to be eventually filtered out by the algo. SEO is not just about tricking Google into thinking a website is relevant to a search term. SEO is also about making a website relevant to a search term.

    The performance of many websites could be improved simply by improving and increasing the content. Do this and any ranking benefits are more likely to be long term. ;)


    .
     
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    directmarketingadvice

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    SEO is not just about tricking Google into thinking a website is relevant to a search term. SEO is also about making a website relevant to a search term.

    Being "relevant" won't necessarily get you onto page 1.

    According to most SEOs on here, you also need authority from external links.

    So, yes, creating content that genuinely makes you an authority within your market would be a strategy that should work in the long term.

    But how many SEOs do that?

    Steve
     
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    terryuk

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    Being "relevant" won't necessarily get you onto page 1.

    According to most SEOs on here, you also need authority from external links.

    So, yes, creating content that genuinely makes you an authority within your market would be a strategy that should work in the long term.

    But how many SEOs do that?

    Steve

    IMo there are two sides to SEO. Quick Bux & Long Term sustainability.

    True authority isn't given overnight, and you can be an authority website and still outranked by a newcomer but it's the fact you are a long term authority Google thinks it's ok to drop you now and again.

    Content is a signal of authority only because people will most likely come back for more, they talk about content and content builds a brand.

    Lot's of different angles, I like them all :)

    I am a bit confused as to why Google are now telling us to go long tail and forget the big boy terms.... screw you :D
     
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    Yea, make great content and everything will be alright..... NOT

    There are legit businesses out there who have created great websites only to be slapped in the face by changes at Google HQ.
    These are the same businesses that built their sites based on the Google recommendation of "Would I do this if search engines didn't exist?" who are now having to change their site with the thought of "What do I need to do for Google to like my site"

    Ironic isn't it.
     
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    RedEvo

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    This is for once a really great discussion.
    I think the best point has been made by Steve - Who is google to trust?

    The problem Google have is they need a quality signal that's automated, and so far link popularity is the clearest signal they've found to be reliable (despite its unreliability).

    If Google hadn't stumbled across context sensitive advertising I imagine they would have thrown the towel in some time ago. I also think Google will increasingly be seen as less than reliable and ethical, and as this happens people will look elsewhere when seeking out goods and services.

    d
     
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    Not a lot. ;)

    My point was that the site owners can have the power to do this for themselves if they have the knowledge and ability to provide useful information about their services and products.

    .

    They also need the time. If you're saying 'power to do this for themselves' as them ACTUALLY writing the content.

    Here's a problem for many site owners though, i mean proper site and business owners, how can i run my shop 9 - 6, 7 days a week and have time to research keywords, do PPC, analyse the competition, write page titles, articles, blah blah.; I need someone who understand the right way to do things and is in it for the long game but isn't going to fob me off with excuses.Spending 2k a month on basic SEO is a big investment for a small company, especially if you see sod all in return, just a couple of articles on some foreign website or whatever.
     
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    look elsewhere when seeking out goods and services.

    d

    For products they'll just go straight to eBay or Amazon because there's an App for that and you don't have to deal with Google spitting back websites that have no relevance on your search at all.

    For services that is a different matter. Most of the directory sites are completely out of date with contact information and google just gives you listings for any company in the country that happens to have your city name in their page titles even if they've never been to your city.
     
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    If thats the case you just found a little niche that's all

    I was looking for van insurance :| The first results were sponsored and only 2 had what i was looking for the rest were comparison sites with out of date info.

    Out of the natural listings there were still 2 sites on the 1st page of google that just talked about how great van insurance was, just article sites, irrelevant. no links to van insurance just saying how amazing van insurance is and what a wonderful world it would be if everyone had vans instead of cars. :|

    Edit: Just done a search and the article sites aren't showing but the comparison sites are showing more now. They're dreadful, they're usually incorrect as well and give only generic quotes from my experience.
     
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