Product titles

[RSR Fulfillment (FR & DE)]

A google shopping consultant has told me to switch my titles from something like this:

Ducati 748 916 996 998 Supersport IE Carbon Fibre Front Mudguard

to something like this:

Carbon Front Mudguard Ducati 748 916 996 998 Supersport IE

Removing less important words like 'fibre' I get. But switching the bike's brand name and model number to go behind the product description surprised me (that it matters at all). And upon checking my competitors' sites, I do indeed note that they put the product before the bike.

Any thoughts on my question, please? Before I go in there and disrupt 800 titles.

 

[wayzgoose]

I would assume that it would depend on what your customers are searching for. I sell football related items and in 99% of searches the team comes before what the are looking for. So I will always have a title like Liverpool FC Beer Tankard. If your customers are more likely to search for carbon mudguard for ducati, then yes, swap them around.
Check your Google Search console and see the actual search terms.
I'm definitely not an expert by the way. Just fiddle around a lot and see what happens!

 

[RSR Fulfillment (FR & DE)]

Looking in the google ads account, they nearly all put a general product description before the bike. Which has also surprised me. I search Ducati first...but I am not the customers so I need to acknowledge that. The next question is, does it make any difference?

 

[wayzgoose]

Not sure. This is where an expert needs to come in! I would say in the normal search results, yes. Ads, don’t know.

 

[dcart]

The order of words in title attributes is very important in SEO. You should also check the form of entering passwords by users. For example, keyword1 keyword2 will produce organic results other than keyword2 keyword1.

 

[wayzgoose]

Well I've just tried searching for 10 of our best sellers in both the organic results and through shopping.
I did 2 searches for each product, one putting the team first and one putting the product first.

Apart from the odd move up or down one, it didn't make the slightest difference !

 

[fisicx]

The page title and the product title are not necessarily the same thing. And if you use sub-headers you can really go to town with the details. And then add a full description along with applicable model numbers and fitting details and google has got something to really get its teeth into.

 

[dcart]

Generally, if Google advises you to optimize your titles, I think you should do so.

 

[UKSBD]

Looking in the google ads account, they nearly all put a general product description before the bike. Which has also surprised me. I search Ducati first...but I am not the customers so I need to acknowledge that. The next question is, does it make any difference?

Doesn't necessarily mean "carbon mudguards Ducati" is better than "Ducati carbon mudguards"

Others may be outranking you for "Ducati carbon mudguards" and your just picking up the dregs

Try setting up both in exact match and check the impressions rather than clicks

 

[fisicx]

Generally, if Google advises you to optimize your titles, I think you should do so.

A "google shopping consultant" is not Google. Many of the shopping and adwords consultants are hopeless.

 

[RSR Fulfillment (FR & DE)]

Well, she brought to my attention the following thoughts on titles like this:

RSR Moto MV Agusta Brutale Dragster Fibre de Carbone Garde Boue Avant Caches Latéraux

The product 'Carbone Garde Boue Avant' does not get described in the 1st 50 characters. Also, the people I am looking to snare in my shopping campaigns will not know who RSR Moto is. When I checked my sales, hardly any sales went to products with the company name in. So it may be the company name is getting in the way significantly.

My german campaign has gone much better, the titles are much shorter. The French know how to make a meal of things.

 

[RSR Fulfillment (FR & DE)]

A "google shopping consultant" is not Google. Many of the shopping and adwords consultants are hopeless.

All the google support I have experienced so far has been worse than that.

 

[UKSBD]

Is your google shopping consultant French, German or English?

 

[RSR Fulfillment (FR & DE)]

Is your google shopping consultant French, German or English?

None of the above...the language nuances are all on me....

 

[UKSBD]

What nationality are they then?

You would assume a French national would know more about how French people search, a German national how Germans search and a British national how Brits search

Ducatti Mud Guards may be more common in Britain, Mud Guards Ducatti (French translation of that) in France

If your shopping consultant is telling you something based on one country don't assume it is the same for all.

 

[RSR Fulfillment (FR & DE)]

What nationality are they then?

You would assume a French national would know more about how French people search, a German national how Germans search and a British national how Brits search

Ducatti Mud Guards may be more common in Britain, Mud Guards Ducatti (French translation of that) in France

If your shopping consultant is telling you something based on one country don't assume it is the same for all.

Yeah, this is exactly what I am scratching my head at and think you have got it right. It is not clear if she thinks this or just thinks products should always go before brand. I will ask. To be honest, she is more there to deal with the set up, mapping and keep me from having to deal with the cretinous service of google. I set my own merchant and account up for Germany last May and it took nearly 6 weeks to get it validated and acceptable to google. She got me going in a week for France. However, I have been surprised at the poor performance. Consequently, I have been asking for her opinion on what i could to to improve it.

I got an immediate 4,500 euros extra sales the month after I set the German google shopping up, with a budget of 150 a month. In France it is about a third of that so far. Not enough.

Whatever, her thinking, it is quite logical to me that my company name needs to come out, something I am doing this weekend.

 

[UKSBD]

Another thing to look at is, do the ads even appear when people search for *brand product*

I know in my case they don't
A search for *model description* returns shopping ads.
A search for *manufacturer model description* doesn't return shopping ads.

 

[RSR Fulfillment (FR & DE)]

Another thing to look at is, do the ads even appear when people search for *brand product*

I know in my case they don't
A search for *model description* returns shopping ads.
A search for *manufacturer model description* doesn't return shopping ads.

Can you give an example here? Don't want to miss a tip but not sure how model description will look and indeed where in the product title I am supposed to fit a description?

 

[UKSBD]

Can you give an example here? Don't want to miss a tip but not sure how model description will look and indeed where in the product title I am supposed to fit a description?

Search at Google for "ax6 wheelchair ramps"

Then search for "Enable Access ax6 wheelchair ramps" (Enable Access are the manufacturers)

Shopping ads are at the top of the 1st search, nowhere for the 2nd

 

[RSR Fulfillment (FR & DE)]

Search at Google for "ax6 wheelchair ramps"

Then search for "Enable Access ax6 wheelchair ramps" (Enable Access are the manufacturers)

Shopping ads are at the top of the 1st search, nowhere for the 2nd

OK, so the brand name counts for nothing in the paid google world? Makes sense to me. Hence the removal of our name on all listings this weekend

 

[UKSBD]

Not necessarily, I would assume it depends how many people are selling the brands products and how big the brand.

For instance *Marks and Spencer Flowers* does return shopping ads

 

[RSR Fulfillment (FR & DE)]

yes right, i am leaving a bunch of branded products that we retail with their name at the front, but we don't really have much of a brand yet for our own products.

do you know if the other content is counted for a google shopping search, or just the title field?

 

[Paul Carmen]

It depends on the market, product type and then the customers behaviour, as Google's AI is good enough now to understand the search intent based on what the customer does afterwards and what type of sites are ranking organically for the search terms.

The other significant factor that applies to you is the country/language the search is in, as due to language syntax, verbs and brands are placed differently.

Google has got very good at search intent and in some markets it makes very little difference; e.g. a search for Panasonic 55 inch TV (or model) versus 55 inch Panasonic TV will result in shopping showing and similar results.

Where it's for parts or accessories, or complex granular searches, it's partly about the number of sellers, but what we think is similar often results in a generic search one way and a more specific search another. Hence not showing shopping for the search Google thinks is generic and non shopping related.

Whoever your Google Shopping consultant is should really be able to give you a data driven steer on this, which should allow them (you) to change with confidence, or carry out proper research into the best result.

Doing the tests/checks manually is possible, but if you have a lot of skus it's really time consuming. There are tools that allow you to research your competitors shopping results quite easily, none of them are free but many agencies/consultants will have access to them; e.g. SEMrush has a tool called PLA research that allows you to review any domains PLA (shopping) results and review the copy, title, keywords, competitors results etc.

 

[RSR Fulfillment (FR & DE)]

It depends on the market, product type and then the customers behaviour, as Google's AI is good enough now to understand the search intent based on what the customer does afterwards and what type of sites are ranking organically for the search terms.

The other significant factor that applies to you is the country/language the search is in, as due to language syntax, verbs and brands are placed differently.

Google has got very good at search intent and in some markets it makes very little difference; e.g. a search for Panasonic 55 inch TV (or model) versus 55 inch Panasonic TV will result in shopping showing and similar results.

Where it's for parts or accessories, or complex granular searches, it's partly about the number of sellers, but what we think is similar often results in a generic search one way and a more specific search another. Hence not showing shopping for the search Google thinks is generic and non shopping related.

Whoever your Google Shopping consultant is should really be able to give you a data driven steer on this, which should allow them (you) to change with confidence, or carry out proper research into the best result.

Doing the tests/checks manually is possible, but if you have a lot of skus it's really time consuming. There are tools that allow you to research your competitors shopping results quite easily, none of them are free but many agencies/consultants will have access to them; e.g. SEMrush has a tool called PLA research that allows you to review any domains PLA (shopping) results and review the copy, title, keywords, competitors results etc.

Thanks for this, there is some obvious stuff to do even so i think.- ie there is clutter in my listings. and i assume that the more clutter, the more diluted the key words get when searched, regardless of position?

 

[UKSBD]

do you know if the other content is counted for a google shopping search, or just the title field?

You can see if words in the description are picked up by filtering it so only your results are displayed then searching for a word in the description (please don't click on any of these results) - https://www.google.co.uk/search?&tbm=shop&q=length&tbs=seller:129845520

Change the seller id number to yours and search for a word you use in your description.

To be honest I seldom to shopping ads, so don't really know how much weight Google gives to descriptions

 

[justleads]

"long tail" keywords (say >4 words) are not easy to deal with, need an expert. So as mentioned above, most people search with 2-3 words, max, not bothering to put them in your logical que.
So maybe (?) she is right, and giving prefence to the "main" search terms is more important than keeping your perfectly logical construct of the name. It will "click" more often with the simple 2-3 words search... I hope I made it clear?

 

[RSR Fulfillment (FR & DE)]

"long tail" keywords (say >4 words) are not easy to deal with, need an expert. So as mentioned above, most people search with 2-3 words, max, not bothering to put them in your logical que.
So maybe (?) she is right, and giving prefence to the "main" search terms is more important than keeping your perfectly logical construct of the name. It will "click" more often with the simple 2-3 words search... I hope I made it clear?

yes it makes sense. and what about this? Germans are searching completely the other way round to the French in the ad keyword search summaries

 

[RSR Fulfillment (FR & DE)]

Image upload poor, so here are links
https://www.flickr.com/photos/98137110@N06/32103304027/in/photostream/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/98137110@N06/33169715538/in/photostream/

 

[justleads]

I work with Adwords since it was "born". Never looked at this "overview" things. If you are interested in search terms, run a sophisticated search terms report, regularly. If you have no time (and this is a very important report!), at least ask somebody to build you a "regular email reporting" feature, or even an automatic script if you are that busy. Usually, you will find interesting things there... very practical, btw

 

[evhow90]

Did anyone find any articles to shed any light on the right thing to do? I'd be interested in reading more on this.

 

[RSR Fulfillment (FR & DE)]

Well, I did no reading, but as it was only a night's work changing the titles around I did it.

My traffic and sales have increased significantly. My visits have increased from 150 per day to 250. I conclude that word order really does matter!

 

[RSR Fulfillment (FR & DE)]

My next question is...is it also important on ebay? I have a lot of titles there, still the English way round.

 

[TheWebDesignCompany]

Generally the order of importance runs from top left to bottom right on a page and the same logic applies to Product titles.

Most important words to the left and less important to the right end.