probationary period and contract

[Justin B1212]

We run a small furniture and gift shop, and we took on a manager on a permanent contract last year. We extended his probationary period from 3 months to 6 months, because he didn't sell any furniture during his probationary period. His extended probationary period will be ending in one and a half weeks time. He knows he needs to focus on selling furniture, he did try and made a bit of progress, but he still hasn't closed any deal. He is diligent and reliable, he seems to be very good with planning and organization, but he lacks the confidence/ passion in selling.

I have been considering giving him the one week notice to end his probationary period, but his birthday is this Saturday. I don't want to ruin his birthday, so I thought it would be better to wait until next week.

I don't want him to be going without any income when he is looking for the next job, and it will be handy to have him around until we find a suitable candidate to take over. Will it be legally OK for me to tell him next week that things are not working out, suggest to him to change his permanent contract to a 3 months fixed term contract with reduced work hours of 2 days a week until he finds the next job? Of course whether he agrees or not, I will give him a very good reference to help him find next job.

He is quite a proud person. I have also been told that people take rejections badly, a disgruntled employee could possibly cause all sorts of trouble, and the safest way is to give the notice, pay him a week's pay and ask him to leave.

What would you do in this case? Is there any HR issue I need to be aware of? Thank you very much in advance for your advice.

 

[Financial-Modeller]

He is presumably aware that his probation period ends next week and that his unsatisfactory performance during the first period hasn't changed during the extension period.

His Birthday is irrelevant.

If your business can support him as an administrator and an additional salesperson, consider that option. If not, start looking for a sales manager.

 

[Paul Kelly ICHYB]

In the first 2 years you can terminate employment a lot easier than after.

I am sure the HR experts like @Newchodge will be along for more clarity soon.

Also, this is a good time to use the services of a business group or support service that you might be a member of.

 

[WaveJumper]

I have a feeling from older posts you thought you had really found a bit of a star in your new employee but sometimes things just don’t work out, if you really need a salesperson and they are not making the grade you cannot afford to carry them.

Of course, as suggested above if you have the room and finances to employ an administrator and a salesperson all well and good but the bottom line is they have come to the end of their probationary period and its not worked out.

Going forward my advice would be, look at your recruitment process, list the attributes and skills they need to have and by the sounds of it selling is at the top. Keep looking until you get the right person for the role and never be tempted to take the best of a “bad bunch”. If you have interviewed six and they don’t match keep going until you do find the right fit.

 

[Newchodge]

Sit down and have the conversation with them. You could ask if they would be willing to accept a different role, different hours etc, provided you have a roile for them BUT bear in mind they will feel as if they have failed (which they have on one level) and they may not be a good employee in a place where they have been found wanting. If they are going, do it quickly - pay in lieu of notice and all outstanding holiday pay, thank you and goodbye.

 

[DontAsk]

We run a small furniture and gift shop, and we took on a manager on a permanent contract last year. We extended his probationary period from 3 months to 6 months, because he didn't sell any furniture during his probationary period.

What was he doing instead?

Perhaps you are attracting the wrong sort of customers who do not actually want to buy, despite being "sold to".

No one has ever sold me anything in that sense. I buy and anyone trying the "hard sell" will result in me walking out of the door. Kirby vacuum cleaners and cars salesmen spring to mind.

 

[Fagin2021]

Perhaps some training could solve the problem, (though not traditional sales training)? I'm not sure someone working in a furniture/gift shop needs 'a passion for selling'.

The first requirement is the ability to distinguish shop browsers from buyers. Don't pressure browsers or worse, make buyers feel ignored. We've all experienced both scenarios.

It's not hard to develop a routine (and training manual) for engaging potential customers in a shop. You don't need to be great at selling - just friendly, welcoming, a good listener, know the product and lead the mark customer gently towards a sale.

If you want to see how not to do it - visit PC world or your average car dealer.

Of course, this assumes you're selling stuff people will buy!

 

[Paul Kelly ICHYB]

BTW, did you employ a manager or a salesperson?

A good manager may be crap at sales and vice versa!

Ensure you are clear on how the initial position was advertised!

 

[Chris Ashdown]

Is he going out getting sales, or just answering the phone. Sales are hard to get for most companies, far more to sales than just answering the phone and giving a price. if he goes out is he listening and prompting the customer on what he really needs/wants .

 

[intheTRADE]

Something is seriously wrong further than his ability as a salesperson. Even the most incompetent, disinterested and unexperienced average Joe could close a deal within 6 months of being a in a shop where people are visiting.

Do you have other sales people or sell yourself? What do those sales figures look like in the same period he has been there?

Are you getting the footfall? Is it high end furniture? Can the area you are in sustain prices you charge?

 

[The Byre]

I worked in a furniture shop in my oh-so-distant youth. We had to sell stuff. If we didn't sell stuff every day, we got the bum's rush.

And yes, the manager had to sell stuff as well.

 

[Justin B1212]

He enjoys visual merchandising and he is great with planning, he has great organisational skills, but he generally doesn’t like people and he gets stressed out when customers try to negotiate a deal with him. Last week he literally passed a customer who was asking for a deal to me when I came in to the shop, and that was after 5 months training. I have this feeling that he is better off working at a bigger company where he manages a team of sales people.

In the original job advert, we did ask for someone who has a lot experience in sales, visual merchandising and management. We have all have all trained him again and again, and I also typed out all the Q&A and gone over everything with him. He currently manages a part time office administrator and a part time sales person in our team. We don’t have the resources to employ him and another sales person full time at the same time, though.
We had a busy Christmas, but I had to go in the shop and sell, because most of the time he was just going around changing display, organising the stock room or taking payment of smaller price ticket items at the till…. I have not asked him to pounce on people, I asked him to approach the browsers and ask if they are looking for anything in particular after they have had a good look around; I asked him to approach the buyers to provide more information when they are seriously thinking about the product.

Perhaps I will just him we can only offer him a fixed term contract at this stage because he hasn’t made enough progress in furniture sales, maybe just offer the position of a deputy manager, working for 2 or 3 days a week for another 6 months, and see how things progress. In the meantime, if he finds another job more suitable, just give me a week’s notice.

 

[MBE2017]

Having spent a lifetime in sales, he is never going to turn into a salesperson. I would simply tell him things haven’t worked out, his main job is sales, which he has not shown any talent or appetite for.

But it’s your business.

 

[MBE2017]

The first requirement is the ability to distinguish shop browsers from buyers. Don't pressure browsers or worse, make buyers feel ignored. We've all experienced both scenarios.

There is no 100% guarantee, but personally in my experience few people choose to visit any stores of any kind just to look, 85/90% are buyers, but it is much easier to believe otherwise as a salesperson. It makes hearing no easier, and forgetting you haven’t done as well as you could or should have.

This applies even more so today, when people can look up the item, prices, specifications etc on the web, yet people still insist many get in a car, drive miles, just to look around, because they have nothing better to do.

Even high ticket items, like a new car, people might visit to look, maybe a few times before buying, but they are still interested, names could be obtained, info supplied, test drives arranged etc etc rather than deciding for them they are just browsers.

 

[The Byre]

I have carefully read and reread what you have written and come to the following conclusion - The problem is not your useless manager - the problem is you!

Sorry that I have to be blunt, but a salesman who has not made a sale in an entire week is not someone I would want to keep. After six whole months, obviously, something else is going wrong! As I pointed out in my post above, I have worked in furniture stores, three in all and in every one of them, we were expected to sell stuff. Regularly!

You, on the other hand, have let this guy live in a quiet world of his own for six whole months - you are not doing him any favours! Your in-store training is obviously not up to snuff. The fact that he is quiet and withdrawn has NOTHING to do with his ability to sell or not to sell.

Some of the very best salesmen I have come across have been quiet and withdrawn. Hail and hearty back-slapping loud gits just put people off. Give me a salesperson who LISTENS to the customer every time! Obviously, he is not listening and your training should have taught him the gentle art of listening to what the customer wants and steering them towards that purchase.

The last time I walked into a furniture shop, I did so (shock, horror) with the intention of buying furniture. I am not the sort of person who goes around shops, tyre-kicking. Life is too short to waste time window shopping. I walked in, looking for a leather couch in brown or black for a reception area. I saw what I wanted and bought the damn thing. I was in and out in ten minutes.

Selling stuff to people that actually want to buy stuff is that easy. Rocket science - it am not!

Yes, you will get tyre-kickers. Talk to them nicely and be friendly and then leave them alone. One day they might actually want to BUY something. They will make that sale to themselves over a couple of bottles of wine and then come into your shop and do the dirty deed.

But it is too late now and you have a bigger problem. You did not realise what the initial problem was and the in-house training needs to be dragged screaming and kicking into shape by a professional. i.e. NOT another member of staff - but someone who knows how to train salespeople - and does so for a living. Full-time!

In the meantime, you have been so kind and generous to this person as to feed and water him for six whole months, when he is obviously not up to the job and needs training. You are running a business and not a charity for useless goofballs!

1. Time to part ways and wish him well. Give the poor blighter a brilliant reference!

2. Get outside help with the training of sales staff!

(And I apologise for the negativity in all the above, but the time has come to grab the puppy by the scruff of the neck and throw it outside when it wets the living room carpet!)

 

[Justin B1212]

I have carefully read and reread what you have written and come to the following conclusion - The problem is not your useless manager - the problem is you!

Sorry that I have to be blunt, but a salesman who has not made a sale in an entire week is not someone I would want to keep. After six whole months, obviously, something else is going wrong! As I pointed out in my post above, I have worked in furniture stores, three in all and in every one of them, we were expected to sell stuff. Regularly!

You, on the other hand, have let this guy live in a quiet world of his own for six whole months - you are not doing him any favours! Your in-store training is obviously not up to snuff. The fact that he is quiet and withdrawn has NOTHING to do with his ability to sell or not to sell.

Some of the very best salesmen I have come across have been quiet and withdrawn. Hail and hearty back-slapping loud gits just put people off. Give me a salesperson who LISTENS to the customer every time! Obviously, he is not listening and your training should have taught him the gentle art of listening to what the customer wants and steering them towards that purchase.

The last time I walked into a furniture shop, I did so (shock, horror) with the intention of buying furniture. I am not the sort of person who goes around shops, tyre-kicking. Life is too short to waste time window shopping. I walked in, looking for a leather couch in brown or black for a reception area. I saw what I wanted and bought the damn thing. I was in and out in ten minutes.

Selling stuff to people that actually want to buy stuff is that easy. Rocket science - it am not!

Yes, you will get tyre-kickers. Talk to them nicely and be friendly and then leave them alone. One day they might actually want to BUY something. They will make that sale to themselves over a couple of bottles of wine and then come into your shop and do the dirty deed.

But it is too late now and you have a bigger problem. You did not realise what the initial problem was and the in-house training needs to be dragged screaming and kicking into shape by a professional. i.e. NOT another member of staff - but someone who knows how to train salespeople - and does so for a living. Full-time!

In the meantime, you have been so kind and generous to this person as to feed and water him for six whole months, when he is obviously not up to the job and needs training. You are running a business and not a charity for useless goofballs!

1. Time to part ways and wish him well. Give the poor blighter a brilliant reference!

2. Get outside help with the training of sales staff!

(And I apologise for the negativity in all the above, but the time has come to grab the puppy by the scruff of the neck and throw it outside when it wets the living room carpet!)

Thank you for your honest advice. I was planning to give him the notice at the end of three months probationary period, but it was at the end of Oct, difficult to find good staff and there were so many companies crying out for staff , job vacancy was hitting an all time high, so I thought it was best to extend the probationary period by three months, wait until after Christmas. I thought maybe he might improve after additional training.

Our part time sales person, my other business partner and I can all sell and close the deal, it is only this manager we have, haven’t closed any furniture deal.

 

[NickGrogan]

People who work in retail are order takers, not salespeople.

Like most people, I go to furniture shops for one of two reasons - browsing for ideas, I'm not going to buy anything, and nothing your "salesman" is going to say will change that. I'm simply not in a buying mood.

Or I am there to buy something, and all the salesperson has to do is find the item, take the order and charge my credit card. As @The Byre has said I'll be in and out in 10 minutes. The salesperson has not sold me anything, they've taken the order. This is one of the reasons Ikea do well.

Or more often as not, they've not appeared or they've said and done something stupid and lost the order.

As an example of this, I went into Carphone Warehouse a couple of years ago to renew my wife's phone contract. We knew which phone she wanted - make, model, colour, etc. I knew which tariff I wanted and which network. An easy sale should be done in 5 minutes, 10 at most.

The saleswoman listened to what I wanted (Make, model, colour, network, tariff) and then said that she had to complete a form on her iPad thing to recommend the right phone for me. She then started asking me about my hobbies and how many pictures I take. I walked out.

She lost her commission and Carphone Warehouse lost 5 contracts - we never went back to them.

Your "sales manager" has cost you a fortune in lost sales.

If you want really easy sales, get a small table, put a simple order pad on it with instructions and let people who don't want to talk to a salesman write down their orders.

The table will outsell most salespeople.

 

[paulears]

I find it odd he was a sale manager or manager and now possible assistant manager - salesman kind of indicated the primary role is selling while a manager in many sales businesses is not a salesman - usually the can do both, but when you see him flitting around tweaking the sales cards and signs and ignoring a customer - why didn't you point him to a prospective customer each time you saw one? Seems very strange. Do you want a manager or a sales person?

 

[Jamie Goodwin]

We run a small furniture and gift shop, and we took on a manager on a permanent contract last year. We extended his probationary period from 3 months to 6 months, because he didn't sell any furniture during his probationary period. His extended probationary period will be ending in one and a half weeks time. He knows he needs to focus on selling furniture, he did try and made a bit of progress, but he still hasn't closed any deal. He is diligent and reliable, he seems to be very good with planning and organization, but he lacks the confidence/ passion in selling.

I have been considering giving him the one week notice to end his probationary period, but his birthday is this Saturday. I don't want to ruin his birthday, so I thought it would be better to wait until next week.

I don't want him to be going without any income when he is looking for the next job, and it will be handy to have him around until we find a suitable candidate to take over. Will it be legally OK for me to tell him next week that things are not working out, suggest to him to change his permanent contract to a 3 months fixed term contract with reduced work hours of 2 days a week until he finds the next job? Of course whether he agrees or not, I will give him a very good reference to help him find next job.

He is quite a proud person. I have also been told that people take rejections badly, a disgruntled employee could possibly cause all sorts of trouble, and the safest way is to give the notice, pay him a week's pay and ask him to leave.

What would you do in this case? Is there any HR issue I need to be aware of? Thank you very much in advance for your advice.

Seems like you have been more than reasonable with him - you’ve extended his probation and given him further training and he is still not at the required level. You clearly know what options are available to you. Keeping him in the business albeit demoting him to Deputy Manager is not really viable - as you said you cannot afford to employ anyone else at the same time, equally, it’s not professional to keep the employee on a shoestring and dismiss when you have appointed his successor. Personally, I would arrange a meeting with him to discuss his probationary review and take a company witness/notetaker with you so that the process is formal - and you have a record of everything and let him know that his performance is not up to the required standard and therefore you will issue him with notice to terminate his employment. It’s going to be tough for you (I’ve been in your situation) - but as a businessperson, you cannot run a business like this.
He won’t be required to work the week’s notice so he won’t cause any further disruption.

 

[Chris Ashdown]

People who work in retail are order takers, not salespeople.

Like most people, I go to furniture shops for one of two reasons - browsing for ideas, I'm not going to buy anything, and nothing your "salesman" is going to say will change that. I'm simply not in a buying mood.

Or I am there to buy something, and all the salesperson has to do is find the item, take the order and charge my credit card. As @The Byre has said I'll be in and out in 10 minutes. The salesperson has not sold me anything, they've taken the order. This is one of the reasons Ikea do well.

Or more often as not, they've not appeared or they've said and done something stupid and lost the order.

As an example of this, I went into Carphone Warehouse a couple of years ago to renew my wife's phone contract. We knew which phone she wanted - make, model, colour, etc. I knew which tariff I wanted and which network. An easy sale should be done in 5 minutes, 10 at most.

The saleswoman listened to what I wanted (Make, model, colour, network, tariff) and then said that she had to complete a form on her iPad thing to recommend the right phone for me. She then started asking me about my hobbies and how many pictures I take. I walked out.

She lost her commission and Carphone Warehouse lost 5 contracts - we never went back to them.

Your "sales manager" has cost you a fortune in lost sales.

If you want really easy sales, get a small table, put a simple order pad on it with instructions and let people who don't want to talk to a salesman write down their orders.

The table will outsell most salespeople.

Some people are like you Nick and need no help and no what they want, others just have a vague idea of what they want and that's where a good salesman can make the difference between a sale and a walk out

A good salesman should have a good general knowledge of what's available and not just what's on the shop floor and also put people at there ease, only a idiot would try filling in a form but then they were probably following instructions from a corporate wiz kid trying to micro manage

The good salesman will identify the people who want help and not waste to much time on those who know what they want

 

[Justin B1212]

Seems like you have been more than reasonable with him - you’ve extended his probation and given him further training and he is still not at the required level. You clearly know what options are available to you. Keeping him in the business albeit demoting him to Deputy Manager is not really viable - as you said you cannot afford to employ anyone else at the same time, equally, it’s not professional to keep the employee on a shoestring and dismiss when you have appointed his successor. Personally, I would arrange a meeting with him to discuss his probationary review and take a company witness/notetaker with you so that the process is formal - and you have a record of everything and let him know that his performance is not up to the required standard and therefore you will issue him with notice to terminate his employment. It’s going to be tough for you (I’ve been in your situation) - but as a businessperson, you cannot run a business like this.
He won’t be required to work the week’s notice so he won’t cause any further disruption.

Instead of having a note taker present at the meeting, could I just record the conversation ( obviously ask for her consent before hand) ?

 

[NickGrogan]

Some people are like you Nick and need no help and no what they want, others just have a vague idea of what they want and that's where a good salesman can make the difference between a sale and a walk out

A good salesman should have a good general knowledge of what's available and not just what's on the shop floor and also put people at there ease, only a idiot would try filling in a form but then they were probably following instructions from a corporate wiz kid trying to micro manage

The good salesman will identify the people who want help and not waste to much time on those who know what they want

Order takers come in all shapes and sizes and yes, if you're offering a higher value or more complex product then they will need to know what's available, what's possible, what goes together and so on.

Anyone who is talking to customers should be able to put them at ease, that's a pretty basic requirement.

That doesn't make them a salesman.

 

[Lucan Unlordly]

People who work in retail are order takers, not salespeople.

Like most people, I go to furniture shops for one of two reasons - browsing for ideas, I'm not going to buy anything, and nothing your "salesman" is going to say will change that. I'm simply not in a buying mood.

Or I am there to buy something, and all the salesperson has to do is find the item, take the order and charge my credit card. As @The Byre has said I'll be in and out in 10 minutes. The salesperson has not sold me anything, they've taken the order. This is one of the reasons Ikea do well.

Or more often as not, they've not appeared or they've said and done something stupid and lost the order.

As an example of this, I went into Carphone Warehouse a couple of years ago to renew my wife's phone contract. We knew which phone she wanted - make, model, colour, etc. I knew which tariff I wanted and which network. An easy sale should be done in 5 minutes, 10 at most.

The saleswoman listened to what I wanted (Make, model, colour, network, tariff) and then said that she had to complete a form on her iPad thing to recommend the right phone for me. She then started asking me about my hobbies and how many pictures I take. I walked out.

She lost her commission and Carphone Warehouse lost 5 contracts - we never went back to them.

Your "sales manager" has cost you a fortune in lost sales.

If you want really easy sales, get a small table, put a simple order pad on it with instructions and let people who don't want to talk to a salesman write down their orders.

The table will outsell most salespeople.

Your generalisation completely misses the abilities of a good salesman.

You walk into a shop select the item, lets say a set of wardrobes, and it's on a 10 week order cycle. If the salesman hasn't provided additional information to reinforce your already made 'decision to purchase', the extended lead time alone may lose the sale. If the salesman hasn't engaged with you and learnt that you need the wardrobes in 6 weeks maximum as great aunty Dolly is stopping over for a week, then he limits the opportunity to direct you to one's that can be delivered in time.

Out of interest, if I came to you for an energy solution and told you what I wanted would you hand me a form to sign or go through a process of questions and answers, like usage and quantity...................in much the same way as the saleswoman in Carphone Warehouse was trying to do for you?

 

[Lucan Unlordly]

I am about to take on a manager, but she seems also interested in starting her own business. I am a bit worried she might try to copy my business, use my suppliers and start her own business after 3 months trial.

In June you referred to the pending employment of a female manager about whom you had concerns. Your thread today is regarding a male manager about whom you have concerns.

Instead of having a note taker present at the meeting, could I just record the conversation ( obviously ask for her consent before hand) ?

Who you mysteriously now refer to as 'her'?

Whilst it's not unusual when employment issues are to the fore, to change the content of a post lest the employee should happen upon the thread should they also be searching for advice, are we really getting the full picture here?

 

[Mr D]

I did a few weeks in a furniture shop. I did sales, did quite well for sales. Just found a better job with higher base pay after a few weeks and left them.

Not everyone can be good at sales. Not everyone is good with people.
If trained properly the manager should be competent at sales, at closing the deal. Have they been trained at all or did they simply get left to their own devices?

 

[NickGrogan]

Your generalisation completely misses the abilities of a good salesman.

You walk into a shop select the item, lets say a set of wardrobes, and it's on a 10 week order cycle. If the salesman hasn't provided additional information to reinforce your already made 'decision to purchase', the extended lead time alone may lose the sale. If the salesman hasn't engaged with you and learnt that you need the wardrobes in 6 weeks maximum as great aunty Dolly is stopping over for a week, then he limits the opportunity to direct you to one's that can be delivered in time.

Out of interest, if I came to you for an energy solution and told you what I wanted would you hand me a form to sign or go through a process of questions and answers, like usage and quantity...................in much the same way as the saleswoman in Carphone Warehouse was trying to do for you?

Yes, a good order taker would know how to check stock and delivery dates and suggest alternatives.

If you called me with all the relevant information then you'd get a price. If any information was missing, then you'd be asked for that information.

In the CPWH case she had all the information, she agreed she had all the information, but she couldn't "sell" me what I wanted without her questions being answered.

Given that I have no hobbies and don't take pictures, the questions weren't relevant to the "sale".

It would be like asking you what your favourite wine is when you call about your electricity bill.

 

[Lucan Unlordly]

Yes, a good order taker would know how to check stock and delivery dates and suggest alternatives.

If you called me with all the relevant information then you'd get a price. If any information was missing, then you'd be asked for that information.

In the CPWH case she had all the information, she agreed she had all the information, but she couldn't "sell" me what I wanted without her questions being answered.

Given that I have no hobbies and don't take pictures, the questions weren't relevant to the "sale".

It would be like asking you what your favourite wine is when you call about your electricity bill.

1. Checking stock and delivery dates and suggesting alternatives is selling, not order taking. You don't have to recognise where the change over from initially wanting the unavailable product 'X' to an interest (buying signal) in the lead time for product 'Y', and a good salesman would subtlety lead you down that path.

2 & 3. So from your side of the fence it's ok to ask further questions but without knowing what relevance the CPWH salesgirls questions were to any offer she may have been able to make to your advantage, it's ok to shut her down and walk? 'As you don't take photos, have you considered the new Oshidashi 2000 that's due out next month on a £1 a week 12 month business contract?'
I'll concede that technology is one of those areas where the customer can often know more than the salesperson in some of these outlets but in my humble opinion they deserve to be given the chance to do what they are told or asked to do by their employer.
Except the girl in the local garage/M&S outlet who asks me 10 times a week if I have a Nectar Card!

 

[NickGrogan]

1. Checking stock and delivery dates and suggesting alternatives is selling, not order taking. You don't have to recognise where the change over from initially wanting the unavailable product 'X' to an interest (buying signal) in the lead time for product 'Y', and a good salesman would subtlety lead you down that path.

2 & 3. So from your side of the fence it's ok to ask further questions but without knowing what relevance the CPWH salesgirls questions were to any offer she may have been able to make to your advantage, it's ok to shut her down and walk? 'As you don't take photos, have you considered the new Oshidashi 2000 that's due out next month on a £1 a week 12 month business contract?'
I'll concede that technology is one of those areas where the customer can often know more than the salesperson in some of these outlets but in my humble opinion they deserve to be given the chance to do what they are told or asked to do by their employer.
Except the girl in the local garage/M&S outlet who asks me 10 times a week if I have a Nectar Card!

1) I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. Is the person at McDonald's that says the milkshake machine is broken, would you like a different drink, selling or taking my order?

2) Relevant questions are fine from both sides, irrelevant is not. When does your energy contract end is relevant as it affects the price as I would explain when asking, did you drink more red or white wine in the last month - not relevant.

The conversation was basically.

"My wife is due for an upgrade and wants an iPhone (latest model and spec) in gold, do you have one in stock?"
checks... "Yes, we do"
"OK, I've checked with EE and she is eligible to upgrade, we want the XXGB tariff, do you offer that?"
checks... "Yes, we do"
"Great, I'll take it"
"Sorry, I can't just sell you that phone, I have to ask you some questions first"


It went downhill rapidly from there.

As a good salesman, you'll have noticed that I gave all the relevant information, a very strong buying signal and, importantly, that the phone was for my wife (who was standing next to me)

As the questions were about my hobbies it seems unlikely that they're going to be relevant, and it's pretty unlikely that my wife is going to change her mind based on my photo taking or the lack thereof.

 

[IanSuth]

1) I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. Is the person at McDonald's that says the milkshake machine is broken, would you like a different drink, selling or taking my order?

2) Relevant questions are fine from both sides, irrelevant is not. When does your energy contract end is relevant as it affects the price as I would explain when asking, did you drink more red or white wine in the last month - not relevant.

The conversation was basically.

"My wife is due for an upgrade and wants an iPhone (latest model and spec) in gold, do you have one in stock?"
checks... "Yes, we do"
"OK, I've checked with EE and she is eligible to upgrade, we want the XXGB tariff, do you offer that?"
checks... "Yes, we do"
"Great, I'll take it"
"Sorry, I can't just sell you that phone, I have to ask you some questions first"


It went downhill rapidly from there.

As a good salesman, you'll have noticed that I gave all the relevant information, a very strong buying signal and, importantly, that the phone was for my wife (who was standing next to me)

As the questions were about my hobbies it seems unlikely that they're going to be relevant, and it's pretty unlikely that my wife is going to change her mind based on my photo taking or the lack thereof.

If i was her i would likely have said "great you know what you want, unfortunately i am stuck with a process which is designed to stop me misselling to vulnerable people, so I will have to go through a checklist of questions on my tablet. Do you want to answer them or shall i just click them the way I know will lead to that model and tariff you have already identified ?

That would have made you empathise with me and I would have got the sale

 

[NickGrogan]

Exactly, you can do whatever internal process you want/need to do, but if they're not relevant to the customer, then don't trouble the customer with them.

Doesn't matter if it's a phone, an energy contract or a bit of furniture.