Online Dispute - Amazon

[Keep It Spicy]

Hi,

This is a weird one and I am out of ideas on what to do next.

In summary:
I ordered a cheap phone from Amazon for the company rep under our Amazon company account.

The item did not arrive.

I raised the issue via Amazon's online help via Live chat.

I was told the item was delivered by Royal Mail. I verified this with the Amazon tracking URL for RM
(royalmail com/track-your-item#/tracking-results/TF398934949GB)
But was asked to wait 2 business days incase this has been a scanning error on behalf of RM

I waited, but nothing arrived (other Amazon orders however arrived in this time frame)

I re-contacted via live chat and requested a POD (Proof of delivery) showing who signed for the consignment via live chat. Their response was along the lines of "this was delivered, we have a geocode, timestamp and signature, we cannot help, call the police"

WTF?.. I have asked for this data, especially the copy of the signature, but Amazon have refused.

I have had 5 online chats with Amazon support, all go along the same lines...

Left with no other choice, I contacted my local force, (ervices.northumbria.police uk/online-services-start/report-an-incident) and submitted the report as Amazon demanded. Also Including forwarding the copies of the online chat transcripts with the 5 Amazon online chats. Just to get the following which Amazon state they need before proceeding

- Name/Rank of the officer
- Name of police station
- Phone Number of police station
- Crime Reference Number


The Police contacted me by phone and 2200hrs that day and left me a very detailed voicemail explaining (verty politely too) that regardless of what Amazon states, this is not a criminal matter. This is a civil matter. They will not be able to issue a CRN, they will not take the matter further..

I have contacted Amazon again via the email they want me to submit this info, forwarding the copy of the email I received acknowledging my crime report and an audio file of the voicemail, of the Police explaining that Amazon are chatting sh*t and they will not get involved, unless I can prove it's a stolen item or Amazon contact them to report a crime. On each time Amazon have replied back stating they will not move forward without the requested Police report and CRN.

I am absolutely at a loss as to WTF is going on or how to proceed next.

I have contacted my visa debit card issuer (Natwest), requested a chargeback, explaining the situation but they have not offered much hope in resolving this, as their stance is " if the RM tracking code shows it's delivered, then there is little we can do". Even though I have requested a formal complaint, i seem to be pissing in the wind.

I have read other threads on here of a similar issue with Amazon... but unlike others who have had repeated delivery problems, this is my first complaint with Amazon of non-delivery.

On average we get about 1 to 3 Amazon deliveries pcw to our personal Amazon accounts, never had any lost, never made any complaints. This was our 3rd order in 11 months from our Amazon business account. It's a private gated property with 7 CCTV cameras, which show NO RM attempts of delivery at the time they state it was delivered.

Im just really at a loss as why Amazon are acting like this and what to do next. It's a £150 phone ffs

Thinking of screen grabbing all the live chat transcripts & emails from Amazon, the time stamped CCTV footage of the property door and the police audio of the lady explaining this is not a crime and making a youtube vid. As i haven't a clue how else to do, to get through to them and Amazon have refused in all live chats and via email to provide the POD.

tia,

 

[Mr D]

Claim under A-Z claim.

Someone somewhere has signed for item, could even be a scam.
But not your problem - your issue is no money and no item. You want one of those.

Maybe email managing director at amazon uk. His email should be knocking about the internet a bit, or there's a guy called Jeff in America who is pretty good at dealing with complaints.

 

[Deleted member 59730]

IMHO Amazon are crooks and employ crooks. I haven't used them since 1/ an employee tried to transfer £2000 from my account to his Barclaycard and 2/ they took money from my card for no sale when I wasn't even in the country. Avoid.

Regarding 2/ Action was only taken when I wrote a snail mail letter to the MD.

 

[MBE2017]

Inform Amazon of non delivery and request a refund.

If you have a problem request where you send small claims court paperwork to. They will have to provide proof of delivery in court to win the case.

 

[ecommerce84]

Amazon are legally responsible for ensuring this item arrives and as it hasn’t they owe you a replacement or your money back.

The problem is that Amazon seem to think they are above the law, from the way they handle returns to their employment practises and pretty much everything in between.

We simply don’t use them. They are seldom the cheapest, seldom the quickest to deliver and most of their 3rd party traders sell on eBay.

Back to your original query though, can you head up to the Gosforth delivery office, and try and get some sense out of someone there? They will know who was delivering that round on that day.

And do yourself a favour, close your Amazon account and shop elsewhere as sooner or later you’ll have another problem and as @atmosbob points out, it could be for a lot more money. And the bigger the amount the bigger the hassle.

 

[Mr D]

Amazon are legally responsible for ensuring this item arrives and as it hasn’t they owe you a replacement or your money back.

The problem is that Amazon seem to think they are above the law, from the way they handle returns to their employment practises and pretty much everything in between.

We simply don’t use them. They are seldom the cheapest, seldom the quickest to deliver and most of their 3rd party traders sell on eBay.

Back to your original query though, can you head up to the Gosforth delivery office, and try and get some sense out of someone there? They will know who was delivering that round on that day.

And do yourself a favour, close your Amazon account and shop elsewhere as sooner or later you’ll have another problem and as @atmosbob points out, it could be for a lot more money. And the bigger the amount the bigger the hassle.

Strangely their employment practices tend to be pretty good. Paying higher than is common and providing share options and further education help.
There are places with similar hard work paying less.

Usually people have more of an issue with employment agency employment practices, what with paying lower than amazon and providing a bus service for which the agency charges a fee.

 

[Keep It Spicy]

Inform Amazon of non delivery and request a refund.

If you have a problem request where you send small claims court paperwork to. They will have to provide proof of delivery in court to win the case.

I have requested a refund. they have refused standing by the RM tracking code. I have requested the POD, the have refused in writing 5 times.

I have requested the address for the UK arm of Amazon to issue a county court claim to and they ignored my request

if you're interested, below is the transcript from live chat 6

----
Hello,
Here's a copy of the chat transcript you requested:

10:26 AM BST Syeda sidra(Amazon): Hello there, thank you for contacting Amazon. I'll be glad to help you today.

10:28 AM BST Iszo: In relation to a non-delivered order.
YOu asked me to contact the police because Amazon state they have evidence the item was delivered.

I have asked for Proof of Delivery 5 times now and Amaozn refuse each time.

YOu asked me to contact the police, I have done so.

I have evidence from the Police stating what Amazon is asking for is not possible because what Amazon believes is a crime, The police say it is not.
10:29 AM BST Syeda sidra: I do understand, could you please help me with the order number you're referring to?
10:29 AM BST Iszo: ORDER # 202-5937637-3017940
10:30 AM BST Syeda sidra: Thanks for that, I will transfer this to the concerned team. Please stay connected.
10:31 AM BST Shreya(Amazon):
Hello, my name is Shreya. I'll be glad to help you today.
Please allow me few minutes to go through previous correspondence.
10:32 AM BST Shreya: May I know if you have filed the police report ?
10:34 AM BST Shreya: This chat has been idle for one minute. I may close this chat after one more minute. If it isn't convenient for you to reply to me at the moment, please contact us again later:
10:35 AM BST Shreya: Your chat session has been idle for 2 minutes, so I'm closing this session. I hope I was of help to you. Feel free to get in touch with us again if you have any more concerns.
10:35 AM BST Iszo: I have filed a police report
I can evidence this
The police have come back to me and said this is not a crime.
10:36 AM BST Iszo: I can evidence this
10:36 AM BST Shreya: I am afraid without a valid report, we are unable to help
10:36 AM BST Iszo: The police have told me that it is up to Amazon to report this to the police, not me
Then I need the UK address for Amazon to issue a county court claim against Amazon. If you wont refund, I will have to sue
10:37 AM BST Shreya: We are unable to issue refund
Is there anything else I can assist you with today?
10:37 AM BST Iszo: What is the UK address of Amazon so I can make a claim against Amazon?
10:38 AM BST Shreya: I am afraid without a valid report ,we are unable to help
10:38 AM BST Iszo: FFS What is the UK address of Amazon?
10:39 AM BST Shreya: I am afraid we are unable to help
10:40 AM BST Shreya: Is there anything else I can assist you with today?
10:40 AM BST Iszo: no, you're useless


Thank you.
Amazon.co.uk

-----
I just go around and around in circles.

 

[smallclaimsassistance]

It's a private gated property with 7 CCTV cameras, which show NO RM attempts of delivery at the time they state it was delivered.

This is compelling evidence. Without it, Amazon CAN prove that the product was delivered.

The word "delivered" is vague, but what they actually have to prove is that they arrived at the address given by the customer for delivery, and on doing so, someone at that address, whom they reasonably believed had authority to accept the goods on behalf of the customer, did so.

If on the other hand you can prove that:

1. they didn't attend at the address at the time they say they did;
2. they couldn't have got in without there being a record of their entry (I'd also get the gate code logs, if it's code or remotely activated);
3. the video footage for 1 hour each side of their professed delivery time shows that their information is incorrect;

...you will win. It's a shame you need to go to these lengths for £150, and you WON'T be able to recover your legal fees, but that's no reason to drop it.

Send them the CCTV footage (and gate entry logs, if you have any) together with a letter before legal action informing them that you will begin legal action unless they pay/redeliver within "x" no of days.

Then just issue court proceedings. If your CCTV evidence proves they didn't attend at the time specified or at all, you should win.

Dean

 

[MBE2017]

All very strange, I use Amazon a fair bit, and have always received prompt refunds no question asked over the last four years. You can ring0845 6050767 to find the sorting office and ask if the item is there.

Apart from that it would be worth contacting Trading Standards, and posting on any social media accounts Amazon might have, such as Facebook. These accounts tend to be monitored and get quick replies normally.

 

[Mr D]

The UK arm of amazon should be found by google. Heck, look for the limited company on companies house.
Or is it the Lux arm you have contracted with?

 

[Keep It Spicy]

All very strange, I use Amazon a fair bit,

Me neither, personal account for 10+ yrs... never a problem.
Ive had a tv replaced that arrived faulted with an onsite swap out no questions asked.
Ive had a steam mop swapped 18 months after the purchase date
Ive had a vacuum replaced no questions asked after 6 month

business account with only three orders, no complaints etc... pretty much told to F off

 

[Keep It Spicy]

The UK arm of amazon should be found by google. Heck, look for the limited company on companies house.
Or is it the Lux arm you have contracted with?

Ive been through county court 4 times in 15 years, no stranger to the process. My worry / concern is applying to court to seek a claim against companieshouse gov uk/company/BR017427 for it to be the wrong Amazon company to clain against.

Will upload the phone call from the police to youtube tomorrow and post a link to it to their Twitter/facebook pages

 

[Nico Albrecht]

Very odd one from Amazon and your bank, never had Amazon asking me to file a police report for a missing item or my bank refusing a charge back after explaining the situation.

The reason why they can't provide a signature is because on the service they used ( 24 tracked ) there is no signature required. Only a scan of the item on delivery.

Calling somebody " you are useless " in a chat regardless of the actual issue is poor at best

You bank not initiating a charge back is really weird, not sure why your relationship is poor with your bank.

Going for legal actions in a chat, email or call will just cause more blocks. If you claim legal actions they simply will refer to their legal department found on their site.

Either your purchasing account is flagged already for some issues in the past I would recommend to give them a call. I found the phone support much better and helpful.

 

[Keep It Spicy]

The reason why they can't provide a signature is because on the service they used ( 24 tracked ) there is no signature required. Only a scan of the item on delivery.

Yet they purport to have a POD with a signature in every communication.
(UKBF will not allow me to post links yet, remove spaces in below link)
https: / / ibb.co / vc9J053

NB, they refuse to forward any data relating to the order. They also refused to acknowledge the audio I have forwarded of the police voicemail twice, which gives the name of the force, the person handling the call and their contact details and why this is not considered a crime by Northumbria Police.

If you claim legal actions they simply will refer to their legal department found on their site.

Not once have they forwarded the information I have asked for several times, or pointed me in the right direction. They just don;t answer the question.

I will phone them though, good advice, maybe a better approach.

 

[Mr D]

Yet they purport to have a POD with a signature in every communication.
(UKBF will not allow me to post links yet, remove spaces in below link)
https: / / ibb.co / vc9J053

NB, they refuse to forward any data relating to the order. They also refused to acknowledge the audio I have forwarded of the police voicemail twice, which gives the name of the force, the person handling the call and their contact details and why this is not considered a crime by Northumbria Police.


Not once have they forwarded the information I have asked for several times, or pointed me in the right direction. They just don;t answer the question.

I will phone them though, good advice, maybe a better approach.

You are dealing with foreigners using a script. Deviate from the script and the staff don't know what to do.
The people you need to speak to are not people you can ring up.

 

[Paul Norman]

As I understand it, Amazon, by not proving delivery, are in breach of the distance selling regulations.

Equally, as they are a huge corporation, it does not matter.

Amazon is cheap. This is why. I suspect, unless you are prepared to invest a lot of time, and maybe money, into pursuing the matter, you have lost your item.

And before you ask, no. I don't think that is acceptable. But as you have already seen, you are banging your head against a brick wall.

 

[Chris Ashdown]

Me I would write to the sunday papers most have a financial expert on one page sorting out poor company problems and getting quick results, They may not talk to you "Amazon" but they definitely don't like there name in the press