Marketing a will writing service

[JamesHall174]

Hi

I am doing a bit of research and was hoping for some opinions.

At the moment 70% of the UK population don't have a will and almost everyone should have one, so there is a big market to go at despite the number of firms offering this service. So, the question is, why is it that people don't make a will and how could I encourage more people to do it. I think the main reasons are as follows but I would be interested to hear if anyone thinks there are other factors

- cost, people think it will be expensive to do
- people dont think they need one (especially if they are married, too young)
- people dont like to think about death
- people feel intimidated approaching solicitors etc

Any feedback would be appreciated, I am trying to look at ways of marketing this kind of service so I need to try and work out what the objections are. Also if anyone has any marketing ideas that would be great.

thanks

 

[showtimeni]

Go up to the hospital and WAIT......or chase ambulances...

 

[JamesHall174]

Ref, last post about 'go up to the hospital and wait.... or chase ambulances' I am not sure whether you are joking? If you are serious this is actually quite a good insight in to how people view it, if a little bit over the top.

Are you trying to compare setting someone with a will to make sure that their loved ones and the people they care about receive their full estate in a timely manner with dodgy whiplash claims!!!!????

If that is how you view having a will I really hope not too many other people share your views. I don't want to bore people with detail in this post but if you want I will happily email you with some real life examples of the mess people can leave behind (and I am talking a life changing mess for the relatives) if they don't take the time to make a proper will which will often cost less than they spend on booze or fags in a month!

I would be interested to hear peoples response to both of these posts.

 

[showtimeni]

Ref, last post about 'go up to the hospital and wait.... or chase ambulances' I am not sure whether you are joking? If you are serious this is actually quite a good insight in to how people view it, if a little bit over the top.


lol clearly it was a joke.....

 

[showtimeni]

also I have had a will since i was 21.....life insurance forced me into it.

 

[JamesHall174]

I suspected it might be but you never know on these forums, you do read some strange ideas!!

Out of curiousity, what do you mean by life insurance forced you in to it?

 

[showtimeni]

I do some extreme sports (well they class it as extreme) so to get life insurance they made me do a will.....haven't got much on it...

 

[JamesHall174]

Thats interesting, I worked in financial services for 20 years and have never heard of a life assurance company insisting on somebody writing a will. I am not quite sure what it has got to do with them, interesting concept though, was it the life assurance company that insisted or a financial adviser?

 

[showtimeni]

No it was the company itself....think it was called standard life...

 

[JamesHall174]

wow, thats a new one on me, perhaps things worked differently then (I dont know how long ago it was) or are different in Northern Ireland? If not its a very nice way for the life company to make some extra money, that said it is a good thing from your point of view because you may not of done one otherwise.

Hopefully you update when you need to, if not its always worth updating as things change.

thanks

 

[MyAccountantOnline]

At the moment 70% of the UK population don't have a will ..

Intrigued - out of interest where does that figure come from? I cant see how anyone can know which members of the UK population have or havent drawn up a Will?

 

[JamesHall174]

Its simply based on the number of people who die intestate. I suppose technically it doesn't show how many people currently don't have a will but it reflects how many people die each year without a will and the figure remains fairly constant to my knowledge, unless you know different?

 

[MyAccountantOnline]

Its simply based on the number of people who die intestate. I suppose technically it doesn't show how many people currently don't have a will but it reflects how many people die each year without a will and the figure remains fairly constant to my knowledge, unless you know different?

I guessed as much - not terribly accurate then

 

[Mason1985]

Personally, It's not something that crosses my mind. The times it does enter my head, like when it's mentioned to me, it quickly leaves my thoughts as at 25, I ignorantly feel too young to consider one.

Add to that 0 kids and nothing substantial to leave post-death, I still don't feel the need to look into.

 

[JamesHall174]

No, very accurate unless I am missing your point? If 70% of people who die each year don't have a will how much more accurate can you get?! This statistic is regularly used, I am not trying to use it as a sales gimmick. I would be curious to know if you asked the next 10 people you speak to 'have they got a will' how many would have one?

 

[showtimeni]

Might update my will and leave all my debts to my neighbour......hate the man....;-)

 

[MyAccountantOnline]

No, very accurate unless I am missing your point? If 70% of people who die each year don't have a will how much more accurate can you get?! This statistic is regularly used, I am not trying to use it as a sales gimmick. I would be curious to know if you asked the next 10 people you speak to 'have they got a will' how many would have one?

Surely what you are saying is that 70% of some of the people who die each year (as you wont have statistics on all deaths) die without a Will - in my book that isnt the same as 70% of the total population not having a Will.

 

[marketingquotes]

Hi James,

Interesting post.

We have had a few will service companies ask us about how best to market themselves and normally they enquire under the heading of telemarketing.

As you point out, there are a few issues that this will bring up on the telephone - so maybe another marketing route is better.

What sort of marketing options have you looked at previously?

Regards,

Marketing Quotes Support.

 

[Parthelan]

Add to that 0 kids and nothing substantial to leave post-death, I still don't feel the need to look into.

Even so, dying without a will can leave your estate with a mess to sort out.
A will only needs to be made once and it's painless. If written properly it will encorporate the eventuality of children etc and what is to happen as regards your estate.
I paid something like £40 for mine donkeys years ago, before marriage, children, house etc, and it covered it all.
I looked at it recently, and as there's nothing to change or update, that's it. It's still in force and still complies with my wishes.

 

[scribe]

Oddly enough i was discussing this today with my son who is about to buy his first property.My son is single and the chances of him ever getting married is nil, i suggested he should make a will regarding his future estate my son agreed saying it was something he hadn't thought about but he would make sure it is done, he then asked if his mother and i had made a will to my embarrassment i said no but on reflection we would .I have two sons, next week they will becoming over and my wife and intend to discuss our will with them other than the property being divided between them both it's just down to personal items so i guess its all straightforward.However i do know the cost is around £150 to have a will written proffesional so the cost may put some people of the idea.

 

[Parthelan]

the cost is around £150 to have a will written proffesional so the cost may put some people of the idea.

This is nothing compared to the cost of the solicitors fees when someone dies intestate.
The last one I dealt with, due to their accounts being frozen and the benefits agency wanting to check back for years to see if there was over payments, it took 13 months to sort out and the solicitors bill came to £1200 which was taken from the estate. And this was a relatively straightforward case.

 

[peebles]

Hi,

I think you are spot on on your reasons for people not writing a will. It never occurred to me until we had children. My Father in law passed away just before I fell pregnant and he left a mess behind. 4 years on and we're still dealing with it. It has caused such a lot of arguments, its unreal.

Even knowing the stress caused, I still haven't made a will, because I assume that my assets (and liabilities) will pass onto my spouse first and then my children. This is how I want it to be throughout my life, so in that case I don't want a will unless things get more complicated. If, eg, my spouse and I split up I would make a will straight away to ensure my chidren get my assets and not him.

Hope this helps.

 

[Will-man Rodders]

Even knowing the stress caused, I still haven't made a will, because I assume that my assets (and liabilities) will pass onto my spouse first and then my children..

A couple of observations ....

1. If certain conditions are met then not everything automatically goes to your surviving spouse when you die. Although very rare (around our way anyway), I have come across examples where the spouse has been made homeless because of the application of 'Rules of Intestacy'.

2. What might happen if you die, your spouse then inherits your estate absolutely, but then your spouse finds 'new love' and remarries? What certainty do you have that your children will then inherit your estate?


And just going back to the initial figure that '70% of people need to make a will' and the source of this statistic. There have been a number of studies undertaken that have come to this conclusion (the National Consumer Council's 'Finding The Will' being one of the latest). Although 65-70% of eligible adults needs to make a will the numbers dying intestate are around 35 to 40% - although these numbers are distorted by the numbers of people who die where Probate is not required. This reduction in numbers [of people without a will as they get older] reflects the fact that as people do get older they begin to plan for their demise and most make a will.

As to why people do not make a will, the NCC report that I mentioned earlier has a number of statistics that answer the OP's original post.

 

[LicensedToTrade]

Not sure which is worse, dying intestate or dying intesco's?

Anyway, I'm sure your figures about 70% of the population not having wills are fairly accurate within 10% either direction, to be honest an exact figure doesn't matter as it is widely accepted that an awful lot of people don't have a written will, so clearly there is a market there.

At the same time I can see where the problem would lie in trying to sell a will through cold leads. Cold calling individuals and asking them if they want a will because they could drop dead any second and leave their family in a whole heap of trouble isn't likely to endear yourself to them but naturally it still needs discussing.

I have seen a number of pop-up podiums selling will services in a few places, similar to all of those RAC podiums that have popped up outside your local Tesco. This might be a route to explore but it isn't the kind of marketing activity where you can invest some money and then wait for a response, you need to be there on the podium, actively trying to sell to the footfall on the day.

How about something a little more abstract? You could hold free seminars at local village halls, community centres etc that aim to cut through all of the legal jargon for anyone who wants to attend. You would be dressing it up as free advice, but making it clear that you do provide these services yourself.

Anyone who attended would be a warm lead that you could work on and so you should get a higher hit rate than the scatter gun approach of cold calling.

 

[scribe]

Not sure which is worse, dying intestate or dying intesco's?

I had to laugh at that as my father actualy did pass away while shopping in tesco, about 7yr ago.

 

[JamesHall174]

Reply to NicolaJ

quote 'Surely what you are saying is that 70% of some of the people who die each year (as you wont have statistics on all deaths) die without a Will - in my book that isnt the same as 70% of the total population not having a Will'


When you say 'wont have statistics on all deaths' - have you not heard of having to register all deaths?? There is a 100% accurate statistic of how many people die each year and of how many die without a will as well as plenty of surveys done of the living as well. I am really not sure why you are so determined to dispute this statistic, I really havent made it up and have nothing to gain by it, I was merely trying to get some feedback on why people dont bother making a will when it costs so little to do and not having one can leave a hideous mess for peoples loved ones to sort out!!!!

If you have some actual evidence to prove what I am saying is inaccurate I apologise but I havent seen anything from you yet to back up what you are saying!

 

[MyAccountantOnline]

James I was actually interested to know where your statistic came from.

I just couldn't see how you could possibly know 70% of the population have no Will.

I work with numbers all day so it was genuine interest

As you said its simply based on the number of people who die intestate so its a guesstimate - question answered.

Shall we leave it at that.

Good luck with the Will writing service.

 

[JamesHall174]

Happy to leave it at that Nicola, the vast majority of statistics are guesstimates based on certain facts any way

Thank you for all your comments and if you ever want a will let me know!

 

[JamesHall174]

Hi James,

Interesting post.

We have had a few will service companies ask us about how best to market themselves and normally they enquire under the heading of telemarketing.

As you point out, there are a few issues that this will bring up on the telephone - so maybe another marketing route is better.

What sort of marketing options have you looked at previously?

Regards,

Marketing Quotes Support.




Hi,

In response to this, I have been looking at the following

- website sales, issue here is the difficulty of driving the traffic to it without a reasonable budget for advertising, SEO, affiliate marketing etc
- introducer scheme, where people receive a payment for referring people. This works reasonably well but it is difficult to find enough people to make significant inroads
- the usual advertising etc

Any other thoughts?

regards

James

 

[Feldon]

I started a Will Writing business last year, I had some industry experience after working for one the largest probate companies in the U.K. Although the industry is not regulated in the U.k I decided to train and join the I.P.W (Institute of Professional Will Writers) as they seem to offer the more respectable face of this industry outside of solicitors etc.

I actively marketed my new business over a 4 month period via leaflets (very professional tri-fold with postage reply enquiry forms provided by the I.P.W, and personallly delivered 10,000 of them, reponse very poor, had about 18 enquires and converted about 10 to clients.

Newspaper adverts and parish magaiznes again poor reponse.

I came to the conclusion that although intersting business to be in, it is VERY hard to launch a business in this sector, my personal opinion is that people do not want to even think about their own demise and would rather stick their head in the sand and think it won't happen to me.

It may be possible over time to build a business up to provide a full-time income but think in terms of at least 2 years +. If you have alternative employment / income then this will certainly help.

If I had continued in this business I would have progressed on to administering estates as this is where the real money is, however if you go down this route with the I.P.W you are restricted to Wills for the first 6 months and again it takes time to earn an income from this side of the business, not least because of the length of time to process a person's estate, minimium of 6 months but more likely 9 - 12 months.

 

[Willman]

I'd like to clear up the confusion about the number of people dying without a Will.

While numerous consumer surveys have revealed that at any point in time about 70% of UK adults do not have a valid Will, this percentage falls to about 15-20% at death.

This is because the incidence of making a Will rises with age - particularly in the 60 plus age group - this being evidenced by data provided by the regional Probate registries. In addition, there are some estates that are too low in value to require Probate but where a valid Will exists. This will not be included in the Probate registry data.

As a longstanding practising Willwriter of some 14 years with a successful practice, my observation as to why some potential Willwriters fail is that their knowledge and experience of marketing a new business - particularly in the current era - is woefully inadequate. Poor marketing skills are not limited to just Willwriting either! Many businesses fail for the same reason.

There is certainly a very good living to be had from Willwriting - if you get the marketing right. Leaflet drops, off the page advertising, directory advertising have never worked well. The key to regular high quality referrals today is referrals.

 

[carlover]

Hello Feldon ,I met you on this forum a while back re certain Probate franchise opportunity where poor souls lost £10,000.

Remember you going it alone,sorry it has not worked out.

I went to a training day with a company called (maybe I shouldnt say).

It just proves that this industry is HIGHLY unregulated.

If you do research on the net you will see that your Institute is the one that is authorised by the OFT and the will writers are this that and the other.

You had the correct training .Me? I had 5 hours training and can now say I work with a company calles Get a will today that actually is a member of said institute.Basically set up by 3 chancers,one made his money in MLM I believe.Yes the wills are written by their solicitors but I draft it on their software.

Prices very good ,ie mirror will plus property care trustx2 and tenants in common costs £350. I would get 45%.

Now the real money is brought in, in a very strange way.If the company becomes executors once they have 10000 wills as executors they sell that "debt" on to a City finance company and I would make an extra £300 on average per executors will.Dubious ,they may be in the Bahamas before we see a penny of it.

Now as for marketing a will some glass half full people wil say most people dont have a will so what an opp.

There is a reason for that,no one wants one ,they are never going to die,not until after xmas or after their holidays ,or when the kids leave school etc etc.

This company on a contra deal advertised heavily on channel 5 for 5 weeks ,how many leads ? .....25

Large adverts in the nat. newspapers ......... 6!!!

Heavy advertisig on smooth radio for the London area...... NONE!!!!

No one wants a will.

By the way ,this company (a member of the inst)did not know the answer to my question. If I had 3 children one was a drug addict ,I want him to have his share but im frightened of him putting it all up his nose ,what can I do?

The will writing industry is shocking and gives well qualified guys like you feldon a bad name.

Finally on lead generation .They are now asking you to buy data at 89p a lead.Apparently these people told a telphone survey marketer that they were interested in talking to someone about a will.(just one of dozens of survey questions)mmmmmm.

I think willwriting as a full time business would break you.

I do

 

[Willman]

Carlover, I am certain you have been mislead!

As far as I am aware, Get A Will Today is not a member of The Institute of Professional Willwriters. It appears to be a subsidiary of a firm called The Will Associates Ltd - which is also not a member of the Institute.

If Get A Will Today does operate in the way you have described it - it would certainly not be tolerated by the Institute.

Unlike any other group of Willwriters, the Institute of Professional Willwriters can only be joined by passing an examination. It is a fact that some solicitors have failed the examination - such is the high standard required.

It's also a fact that any person working for a member firm of The Institute of Professioinal Willwriters would also have to undertake Institute training and apply to become as Associate of the Institute to prove competence - before being allowed to work for a member firm.

 

[carlover]

Hi Willman ,buddy im not saying your wrong.

Thats what they are saying and (apparently) a guy called Peter (wish I could remember his second name) who did the days "training " had something to do with the inst. .Think the company he worked for was a member or indeed even the inst. itself.

These chancers are /will ruin the institutes reputation.They have trained up over 300 writers now.I promise you most of the 65 I was with left that room clueless.Its outrageous really.

Maybe you being a member should make some enquiries at the Ins.

 

[Paul Sharpe]

Hi,

I have been pointed to this discussion by an Institute member.

First - the market for Wills. The most accurate data that I am aware of was included in a Law Commission report on intestacy. It contained stats from the Courts Service which indicated that 84% of estates administered through probate HAD a valid Will. Add on to that that some Wills would be invalid, some would be lost, the actual levels of Will ownership are very high. Which means that the market for Wills is actually very small.

That is why, as Feldon found, it is very difficult to successfully establish a Willwriting business. As Willman points out - its all about marketing.

Its is why the biggest chunks of money made in Willwriting are made by those selling training and franchises and business opportunities. Its been that way for 20 years, and no doubt will be that way for the next 20 years - unless the sector is regulated.

My advise to anyone who is thinking of entering the sector is to critically examine their own marketing skills - if they are not top notch, they will, unfortunately, fail and no investment in franchises or technical training will change that. Or else join an organisation that promises to deliver leads - but make sure that any money paid to do so is linked to the successful delivery of promised leads.


Second - Get A Will Today.

Neither this firm, nor its parent firm, Will Associates Ltd are members of the Institute.

I am aware that some training is provided on their behalf by one of our members, Peter Burton. However this training is not delivered on behalf of the Institute, nor is it endorsed by the Institute nor is it accredited by the Institute.

Peter is aware that at no time should he be making any references to his IPW membership nor indicating any endorsement by the Institute of the training he delivered.

If anyone is aware that this is not the case, please contact me via the IPW website - sorry as a new joiner, I cannot post links in my message.

Paul Sharpe
Chairman
Institute of Professional Willwriters

 

[MikeJ]

Here you go...

http://www.ipw.org.uk/

 

[alexlowe]

Hello,

I once met a guy who had just started doing this. We had next door plots at a county show. He picked up about 5 punters (£99 each plus document storage £15 pa - this is an important sideline) in 2 days. Footfall was bad and he said that it was an average result. He said most of his business was coming from referals from some kind of business club.

I think this is the way to go. Use your spare time to do things like shows etc anywhere where there is a middle age, middle class footfall. But more importantly pay a commission for referals from people like financial advisors etc. I think this is vital.

He asked me to join up with him and I was tempted because I could see the potential in the document storage (work it out, 5 a week for 5 years at £15 per annum and thats a nice income) but I didn't like the image at the time. I kept an eye on his website though and it disapeared after a couple of years.

At the time also inheritance tax was big news and this was a big part of his plan.

good luck

 

[bdw]

I came to the conclusion that although intersting business to be in, it is VERY hard to launch a business in this sector

Vested interest aside, I would have thought that a well optimised website would be the major factor in marketing such a business. A Quick check with Google's keyword tool suggests that there are hundreds of thousands of searches like "make a will" and "get a will" each month. The Internet is today's answer to marketing for businesses like this.

 

[NuBlue]

I suppose I dont have a will because I feel it is too early. I have no wife/kids and I am still relatively early on in my career (in my 20's) So I feel that if I got a will written now then in 5 years I may well be married with kids and in a totally different fincancial position and will have to the whole thing again.

I'd rather wait until I:

a) Have something worth leaving behind
b) Know the person/people I definately want to leave it to

Hope that helps. So maybe a will writing service with a number of free revisions would be a selling point?

 

[Feldon]

Further to my earlier post and to later posts by others I would like to point out that I found the I.P.W (Intitute of Professional Willwriters) to be a very professional organisation who offer excellent training and membership to those who want to enter this profession and do it in the right way.

Although it didn't work out for me Carlover, it was partly that I was hoping to make a full-time income from this in a short space of time and I had limited savings. If I could go back and do things again I would have done them differently and had a full-time job and run this as a part-time business and built it up over time. However at the time I was an employee of a probate company and was being pressured into signing a contract with a non-compete clause so that was not really an option for me.

Paul, hope things are all well with the I.P.W and you continue to grow and present the geniune and respectible side to an otherwise largely unregulated industry.