Mac or Windows?

[Subbynet]

I'm a dev I judge it on stability.

I *love* XP its probably the most stable OS M$ have ever released, even more so than the so called bullet proof WinNT (which when I had it a dodgy 56K modem driver often used to make it BSOD) but everything since is just not quite there. UAC under vista/win7 has made things painful, syswow64 for calling on 32bit stuff is just plain illogical etc etc.

Is OS X bulletproof? nope. But its a damn sight (not just a little) better than anything M$ produce these days.

What UAC issues do you still have? :| And with WoW64 - what exactly is the problem? Granted, I'll give that Apple's implementation is a bit tidier, but it's hardly a deal breaker - both are to be fair a bit flaky in certain aspects.

I think everyone would be happy to make a clean break to 64bit.

 

[garyk]

Hey Subby, well not many UAC issues now because I try and avoid win32/64 altogether! apart from MSSQL which is an awesome database. I have to do stuff with 32 bit odbc drivers and under win x64 its a real pain, you're right it should have been seamless.

Gary

 

[GravexWebServices]

If you walked in to PC World today, would you pay £1,000 for a 2 year old laptop?

No, I thought not. So why would you do that when you buy a Mac?

Just stick Linux on your computer, and bask in the glory of having a stable system that is free from both Apple's and Micro$oft's clutches!

Viva La Fedora!

 

[JDX_John]

Though it's a chicken & egg situation, I wouldn't move away from Windows in a business environment without a good reason - like doing creative stuff. Apart from anything else, there IS still a learning curve moving OS.

 

[Marketing Jelly]

I love my Mac. I've been a Mac person for about eleven years now and find Windows clunky and slow. In those eleven years I have never had a Mac crash - I can't use Windows for eleven minutes without a problem.

I do think it's an emotional thing though and we use so-called objective 'facts' to back it up.

 

[Mike tells it like it is]

I would always say windows. Software is more readily available and I would guess cheaper.

I never did see why so many designers like mac.

 

[Cobby]

Of course it's easier to write software to a known set of hardware. Apple only use a tiny subset of the hardware that's available for Windows and they know exactly who made it and to what standard - because they specify it or pick it off the manufactures list themselves.

Windows has to cope with every PC piece of kit made by anyone anywhere and anywhen.

I don't think you understand what Hardware Abstraction is all about.

Voipfone used PCs for the first 3 years of its life, then switched to Linux because we needed a VPN and server. Our operating platform is Linux and our chief techie refused to have anything Windows on the main network for security reasons. We have Linux software engineers and a Linux sysadmin but we never got the Linux secure VPN working properly.

While it does seem to be the entire point of the thread, this post just screams that old idiom, "It's a poor workman that blames his tools."

I try to surround myself with inspiration and using the wonderful devices drives e to do better with the sites and apps I create.

Are you quoting from one of those airy-fairy Apple adverts? It sounds like it.

 

[Cobby]

Remember you can duel boot a Mac or run Parallels or similar if you need to run Windoze only apps.

I'm a dev I judge it on stability.

M$...M$

Oh ffs, cut it out. It's not the 1990s and you aren't 13 years old.

 

[RevaxMedia]

Mac everytime you can run windows on a mac pc anyways

 

[DotNetWebs]

Oh ffs, cut it out. It's not the 1990s and you aren't 13 years old.

I think everyone taking sides here should watch this:

http://www.channel4.com/programmes/steve-jobs-ichanged-the-world/4od#3255316

Steve and Bill loved it each other really!

Regards

Dotty

 

[gdswebdesign]

Oh god i feel a PC v mac storm brewing. I'll get in quick with I love PC's. I design websites... on a PC, nothing wrong with them. But I can't deny macs look great. Day to day office tasks? PC every time.

 

[cjd]

While it does seem to be the entire point of the thread, this post just screams that old idiom, "It's a poor workman that blames his tools

Yes, it's odd how those same workmen have built a production scale VoIP platform serving 10s of thousands of simultaneous customers from own code. Just lucky I guess.

 

[Cobby]

http://www.channel4.com/programmes/steve-jobs-ichanged-the-world/4od#3255316

I'm always slightly irked when I see people hero-worshipping Steve Jobs. Steve Jobs died around the same time as Dennis Ritchie.

Dennis Ritchie was a hero in the world of computing and he made genuine advances in technology and the way computers have developed. He was also co-inventor of C and Unix.

Steve Jobs was a guy that ran a company that used a lot of child labour to make millions of dollars.

 

[accounting-help]

The only thing that makes a computer is the operating system.




You can put OS X on a £450 Toshiba/Dell and it'll turn it into a first rate work station - you just need to fiddle with it a bit ( they call them a Hackintosh ).

Can do that but then you go into a bit of a grey area. I'm sure we know of people who have a Hackintosh set up but I don't think your allowed to put OSX on non Apple Hardware.

 

[Subbynet]

Can do that but then you go into a bit of a grey area. I'm sure we know of people who have a Hackintosh set up but I don't think your allowed to put OSX on non Apple Hardware.

And likewise, all those saying "You can run Windows on a Mac" make me laugh - your OS is so good that you boot to Windows.... :redface:

Also, how many of you Mac users have paid a license to use Windows... Not many I'm willing to bet.

 

[JDX_John]

I think if I was starting my business from scratch I would be very, very tempted - but as a conversion it would be very costly for me and the benefits just don't justify the cost. Having said that if aesthetics are very important to you may decide to just work around the issues until you get it all sorted out.

You might rue a decision to switch when every time you hire a new person, you have to shell out for another Mac

The only thing that makes a computer is the operating system.

I'm a dev I judge it on stability.

Is OS X bulletproof? nope. But its a damn sight (not just a little) better than anything M$ produce these days.

I see no difference between W7 and OSX on that score.

 

[garyk]

Also, how many of you Mac users have paid a license to use Windows... Not many I'm willing to bet.

How many Windows users have paid for a Windows licence come to that!

I opted for XP as its less resource hungry for running under VM Ware on my mac and I got a legit copy for £40. When I was looking at W7 pro it was £150 so, bizarre as it sounds it was better for me to buy a machine so I bought I decent spec barebones HP for £400 that came with it as it was useful for me to have a win box.


Gary

 

[Nala]

Can do that but then you go into a bit of a grey area. I'm sure we know of people who have a Hackintosh set up but I don't think your allowed to put OSX on non Apple Hardware.

There is I believe nothing within UK law that would stop you as long as you had legally purchased OSX and legally purchased a PC from making the 2 work together - It's if you need to buy anything else that is solely developed for this purpose or use a third party company. Apple has indeed sought injunctions against company's who do this, but as an individual making it work when it obviously can, then I can see no problem but as you say it is a 'grey area'. A legal eagle would be needed to clarify, however I do not have the patience nor possibly the ultimate ability ( I have not actually tried) to do it on a PC, so I just shelled out the cash - it's all tax deductible anyway!

And to Subbynet:

All my software is legally purchased, and I have absolutely no need for Windoze upon my computer - why spoil it?



EDIT: And the software is from reputable sources and all connect and update correctly before anyone comes along and says that!

 

[JDX_John]

There is I believe nothing within UK law that would stop you as long as you had legally purchased OSX and legally purchased a PC from making the 2 work together

I bet the license for OSX says pretty clearly this isn't allowed.

Apple has indeed sought injunctions against company's who do this

This whole thread is ABOUT using Mac for business use, and you need to stay much more cautious as a business than for personal use.

 

[Nala]

JDX_John

I think you have misquoted a little bit there - read again, it's if you need to get the services of a third party company to convert it for you.



But it is a 'grey area' I grant you, but you can buy just the OS and that is where it is grey, you buy 2 things and make them work for yourself.

 

[Cobby]

I have absolutely no need for Windoze upon my computer - why spoil it?

So you can have a proper spell-checker?

 

[Nala]

So you can have a proper spell-checker?

Nah, it annoys the hell out of the rabid M$ crowd!



Tee-hee!

 

[Cobby]

Nah, it annoys the hell out of the rabid M$ crowd!



Tee-hee!

No, it annoys adults.

 

[Cobby]

Rather it just means people don't take your opinion seriously. You're right up there with the other group of idiots that keep saying "crapple" and then giggling.

Don't get me wrong, that whole thing was mildly amusing, ooooh, 20 years ago?

 

[Nala]

Wow!!

Double post within 2 minutes!

Obviously annoyed

Crapple - giggle giggle

I'm guessing you must be an adult then - good for you Try not to get to wound up about it though - not good for the blood pressure at your age.


Joking aside this thread has gone off track so I may start another.

 

[JDX_John]

JDX_John

I think you have misquoted a little bit there - read again, it's if you need to get the services of a third party company to convert it for you.



But it is a 'grey area' I grant you, but you can buy just the OS and that is where it is grey, you buy 2 things and make them work for yourself.

No, I think the license on the OS says (probably) that you may not install it on a non Mac. It sounds like something they would put in the EULA to me. Obviously you can DO it, but that has no bearing on the legality.

 

[Nala]

No, I think the license on the OS says (probably) that you may not install it on a non Mac. It sounds like something they would put in the EULA to me. Obviously you can DO it, but that has no bearing on the legality.

And that's the contentious point. I said in UK law. There was something about the iPhone that Jobs/Apple said you could not put non Apple software on it, and I believe that they cannot actually enforce that here, you've bought the phone you can stick whatever software you like on it - I'm not an iPhone user, but I believe that is what has been said, it holds no weight in the UK to state that. I 'think' that they cannot claim that OSX has to go on an Apple computer either. They cannot enforce that, but they could take out injunctions against a company that offered that service ( certainly outside the UK ).

It's grey ( like the weather ) and I am prepared to admit I'm wrong, but it needs a real legal eagle rather than internet warriors to sort it out

 

[MancunianCreative]

From a visual standpoint the way Apple makes its products inspire you to make better designs yourself. They are a joy to use. My iMac is a ll glass and aluminium it's rapid it's silent it's all in the screen. Only one wire into it ( power) everything else is wireless. The mouse is glass and you can use gestures on it to operate.

The user experience of Apple far far exceed that of Windows.

 

[JDX_John]

Manc, you realise people make PCs that are just as sleek and expensive? It's just that hardly anybody buys them with cheaper alternatives... with Mac they don't give you the option.

 

[MancunianCreative]

I don't think there are any companies making a computer that looks anything close to the iMac.

Price isn't an issue, I love how they work. I've also got a ton of other Apple products, and the seamless way they work together isn't matched. Especially the case with Dropbox/iCloud.

I can let my 5 yr old son use their products or my Mum, and they all know how to operate them, I don't get a million questions about how to do something and I don't need to worry about them clicking on something and destroying the computer.

 

[JDX_John]

Search "all in one PC".

Also, Mac and W7 are very similar for common operations like using the web, playing games or whatever. I think both are great.

 

[DotNetWebs]

I'm always slightly irked when I see people hero-worshipping Steve Jobs. Steve Jobs died around the same time as Dennis Ritchie.

Dennis Ritchie was a hero in the world of computing and he made genuine advances in technology and the way computers have developed. He was also co-inventor of C and Unix.

Steve Jobs was a guy that ran a company that used a lot of child labour to make millions of dollars.

I agree about Dennis Ritchie but I also think that Steve Jobs (and Bill Gates for that matter) deserve credit for bringing 'computing [and modern technology] to the masses'.

As with most of successful technology an idea / invention is not enough - it also needs people who can make a viable product out of it.

Regards

Dotty

 

[MancunianCreative]

You can't state that Jobs used child labour. Because that isn't the case. The Chinese factories, used child labour, and those that did had their contracts cancelled. Oh and one of those factories has 400,000 workers, they found 11 that were under 16. I imagine China doesn't have a national insurance number or photo ID checking for that amount of staff......

 

[Subbynet]

You can't state that Jobs used child labour. Because that isn't the case. The Chinese factories, used child labour, and those that did had their contracts cancelled. Oh and one of those factories has 400,000 workers, they found 11 that were under 16. I imagine China doesn't have a national insurance number or photo ID checking for that amount of staff......

Apple has a responsibility from the start to the end of production, which it cannot be disassociated with just because they have used a Chinese company to build their toys.

This is a company that once upon a time had it's own US factories, but fired it's workers and moved production abroad for extra profit. These allegations of Child Workers and higher than normal suicide rates have been on-going for a long time now - and nothing really changes.

 

[MancunianCreative]

Apple has a responsibility from the start to the end of production, which it cannot be disassociated with just because they have used a Chinese company to build their toys.

This is a company that once upon a time had it's own US factories, but fired it's workers and moved production abroad for extra profit. These allegations of Child Workers and higher than normal suicide rates have been on-going for a long time now - and nothing really changes.

Let's not let facts get in the way of a good Apple bashing eh?

I don't condone the lifestyle in the factories or the use of children. But if you think that any electronics/clothing/consumable products you get from China are different and that Apple are the only company that do this, you are insane.

Apple also employs a huge amount of people in the States, has built massive research and development facilities. Jobs even told Pres Obama that he would house factories in the States again if they had 30,000 engineers trained up ready to go in America. Fact is, China does.

 

[Subbynet]

Let's not let facts get in the way of a good Apple bashing eh?

What facts tho? They don't make no goods in the US of A... It's all design, R&D and support staff...

You're the one trying to blame everyone else for doing the same to make Apple look good.

I don't condone the lifestyle in the factories or the use of children. But if you think that any electronics/clothing/consumable products you get from China are different and that Apple are the only company that do this, you are insane.

I'm sorry but I didn't say anything about other companies, and I wasn't ever aware of "two wrongs making a right"... The fact will and always remains that Apple is responsible.

Apple also employs a huge amount of people in the States, has built massive research and development facilities. Jobs even told Pres Obama that he would house factories in the States again if they had 30,000 engineers trained up ready to go in America. Fact is, China does.

Yeah right, as if the US doesn't... Fact is - they cost a hell of a lot more in the US and companies like Apple (HP, Cisco, Oracle, Yahoo - you name it!) have been outsourcing like mad over the years - so becoming an engineer (software programmer!) isn't a job with much security.

Oh, didn't you know Steve Jobs could be two-faced POS? All his companies outsource to the cheapest places... Look at Pixar.

 

[JDX_John]

A nerd thinks another nerd should be venerated more than someone linked with things the public can actually see. Quick, call the papers, it's a scandal.

 

[Ross Webster]

Haven't read the whole thread, and a lot of points I would have made have already been covered.

One of my top reasons I much prefer the Mac: SILENCE.

(i.e. it doesn't sound like a jet plane taking off like my old Sony Vaio used to)

 

[JDX_John]

That's the stupidest argument I ever heard. There are literally hundreds if not thousands of different PC desktop/laptops you can choose from. And even Apple make several different computers.

You're probably comparing your £1000 Mac with a £400 PC... spend the same on a PC and you'll get the same (or better) high quality build.

 

[DotNetWebs]

...One of my top reasons I much prefer the Mac: SILENCE..

It is possible to buy silent PCs you know!

Regards

Dotty