Longer Sunday hours & trading
- Thread starter gr9ce
- Start date
....gosh showing my age here....The overheads involved in running a shop are so large ,it makes sense to open all hours.
Our local supermarkets are open 24 hours.
Just like we do on the internet.
Earl
Our local supermarkets are open 24 hours.
Just like we do on the internet.
Earl
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"the public gets what the public wants" sang The Jam back in the 1980s and I don't think that is far from the truth regrading supermarkets.
Though you may hanker for an ancient centre of shops open at their convenience and certainly not at yours, where choice was severely limited to a couple of options for everything, the rest of the population wants vast shops where we can buy everything in one place. And that is what they have got.
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Consistency
I have tried supporting a small grocers/newsagents for small things, one direction is them and the other direction is the supermarket.
Miserable service, dearer and much more restricted and rather than simply serve you (we don't owe each other anything), they act as though we owe them for some reason.
Most times I have been in it is though I am intruding, and trying to get through the mini crowd of regular chatterboxes at the till. They do themselves no favours.
Stuff 'em. The supermarket is far superior I am afraid. Not a nice thing to have to say but is my opinion.
Miserable service, dearer and much more restricted and rather than simply serve you (we don't owe each other anything), they act as though we owe them for some reason.
Most times I have been in it is though I am intruding, and trying to get through the mini crowd of regular chatterboxes at the till. They do themselves no favours.
Stuff 'em. The supermarket is far superior I am afraid. Not a nice thing to have to say but is my opinion.
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I don't want them to fawn over backwards for purchasing a 50p kiddie mix but even though you are putting up with their vastly overpriced and often near out of date date goods, you are right in the way they somehow think they are doing you a favour.
One near me doubles as a post office, yet if you want them to perform any post office functions they draw in breath and grudgingly head over to the counter. Woe betide if you only want a stamp or a receipt for an Amazon return !
What is it with bakers, who have streams of people every day wanting bread and other things after 4pm only to be told that they have sold out. Yet for 30 years that I know, they are always rushing about to close early, telling customers that they don't have anything left. Why not make some more ?
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Banned
I trust your first comments are referring to supermarkets, in which case you are correct about them being overpriced and often having short date goods.
The ideal for a bakers is to be sold out at the end of the end as they (unlike supermarkets) don't sell yesterdays stock as fresh. No I'm not talking about Greggs or similar but proper bakers.
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Consistency
This is another thing, they just can't wait to close, shut up shop and go home. Costa coffee for example is open until 7pm and you know where you are with it but come 3.30 in the afternoon in the smaller independant coffee shops that I have tried to support, it may as well be us barging in after closing time.
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Consistency
Brought a pasty from a local small independant bakery, over £2 in price and was not quite vile but not enjoyable. Greggs - 70p, fresh and warm as much filling as pastry and loved it.
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Consistency
What annoys me though is there are some smaller shops that try hard, they deserve the custom and greet people with a smile and show that they are open by leaving doors open and not displaying their mop until they are ready to use it after closing time. These shops suffer for the reputation the lazier ones are spreading.
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It's always a shame when someone has this experience of independent shops because it isn't the norm.
However it does remind me of one of those oddities in people's behaviour. It's strange that people can get absolutely appalling and insulting service at the supermarket; complaints that end with a snooty and dismissive supervisor that doesn't care if you get what you want or not - but they still go back. Given the cheap, low-grade offerings available in the 'big 3', and the surly, uninterested staff, if you think that's superior then I feel bad for you.
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windlesham
At the moment large shops can only open for six hours a day. Small shops with can open whatever hours they wish
I don't see the logic in punishing stores that have been a financial success, grown and provided jobs for the community. In order to favour those that have failed to adapt and change.
I ask what does my local butcher or newsagents really offer me that I can't get in tescos, is it better on price, quality of service or produce. In truth the answer to all of them is NO.
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windlesham
It's always a shame when someone has this experience of independent shops because it isn't the norm.
However it does remind me of one of those oddities in people's behaviour. It's strange that people can get absolutely appalling and insulting service at the supermarket; complaints that end with a snooty and dismissive supervisor that doesn't care if you get what you want or not - but they still go back. Given the cheap, low-grade offerings available in the 'big 3', and the surly, uninterested staff, if you think that's superior then I feel bad for you.
You don't really have any evidence to back up that statement though do you. Service from butcher to butcher or newsagent to newsagent will vary greatly. When I go into Sainsbury's I'm aware that they spend money and train their staff to offer a good level of customer service. If I receive a poor level of service I am confident that my complaint will be dealt with.
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You are joking surely?
Having been there I can assure you that your "complaint" will be dealt with just enough to shut you up. It will only ever be taken further if the Manager wants to get rid anyway, in which case they will pounce on your complaint as full justification for sacking someone without even bothering to hear that you, the customer, was actually the issue. I have known Managers purposely put staff they want rid off in areas that will attract the most complaints for just that reason. It used to be the "basket only" till - a nightmare for complaints from all sides.
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windlesham
No I'm not joking. Large stores put in a considerable amount of investment in customer service.
I've never worked in a supermarket, I have had cause for complaint and received an acceptable response from head office.
Once again I have to say that this illusion that large stores are poor at customer service or lack product knowledge does not hold true from my experience
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To go back to the original post, it's all politics and the like of Tesco sucking up to Davey. I heard some idiot minister saying that it would be wrong if we "were shut" for the Olympics. I have never heard anything so insulting in my life. Shops under 3,000 sq ft can open on Sunday all day and I am sure they would be if they think they will do business - and that includes the Olympics. This nonsense is purely so Daveys friends can make extra money.
The correct way to deal with it would be if the government had just encouraged all the small businesses to take advantage of the Olympics and open longer hours, proving the diversity of choice. Instead, the government have reduced the choice and helped more people go to the wall.
I'm not moaning, I expected it. Small Retailers will always be treated like dirt and we always have been. When we mention it we get the usual rubbish about Tesco et al creating jobs (they cost jobs overall if you compare the number of full time jobs lost to part time.
The correct way to deal with it would be if the government had just encouraged all the small businesses to take advantage of the Olympics and open longer hours, proving the diversity of choice. Instead, the government have reduced the choice and helped more people go to the wall.
I'm not moaning, I expected it. Small Retailers will always be treated like dirt and we always have been. When we mention it we get the usual rubbish about Tesco et al creating jobs (they cost jobs overall if you compare the number of full time jobs lost to part time.
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Ok, let me explain how it works.
You should always complain to Head Office, they have no idea what actually goes on in the shops and will ALWAYS side with the customer, no matter how mad the complaint. I refused a very rude customer a refund after he admitted he had ate a whole loaf of bread and then bought just the wrapper back saying it was stale. He rang the idiot at Head Office and got a written apology for the bread being stale and a £10 voucher - great way to tell your staff you trust them Sainsburys ! Shop staff are given all the responsibiliy but no actual room to be responsible.
The only company I have heard who of who do it "properly" IMHO are JJB Sports who will side with whatever decision the Manager has made (unless the Manager is legally wrong). I wouldn't want to work there for a hundred reasons but if I did, it would be nice to know my employer backed me and trusted me to do what I thought was best for both the customer and the business.
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Banned
Agree with mhall - supermarkets don't deal with complaints they simple get rid of the complainer as quickly and fuss free as possible.
You can pretty much guarantee your complaint won't have been dealt with in the slightest.
But that's what supermarkets are good at - conning the public, and a lot of the people are easily conned.
You can pretty much guarantee your complaint won't have been dealt with in the slightest.
But that's what supermarkets are good at - conning the public, and a lot of the people are easily conned.
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So you really think that you can go into Tesco and ask for a copy of last October's Moshi Monster comic to be ordered?
So you think that newspapers and magazines, etc., are any cheaper in Tesco?
So you think that Tesco will deliver your newspaper every morning to your home?
So you think that you can find a different hobby magazine rather than the one you always buy - you think Tesco stocks the same wide range of more obscure magazines that a good local newsagent?
That's comparing it against a newsagent. I'm sure the same would apply to a butcher, but I don't know enough about them to comment.
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Photovision
I think everyone should experience this once.
I guarantee you that someone working for them, on minimum wage could not give a fig about what you want, need or feel.
They'll give you whatever it takes to get you to shut up and get out.
Few people know that if you complain long enough in Sainsburys at the desk and not accept their offers you'll get up £250 of vouchers.
Is it because they care or they want you to go away?
An independant is much more likely to actually listen to a complaint as they will want to get to the bottom of it.
Of course providing the complaint is legitimate.
As for you getting better meat in a supermarket, go to the meat department and ask them exactly what constitutes one chicken being different to be called "economy"
ALL their meat is bought at the lowest price so essentially they are all economy, pumped full of water and glycerin to increase the weight, and you'll see that come out of the meat as you cook it
Compared to my local butcher, who yes is more expensive, but the weight of the meat is true and it's sources are traceable back to the farm
Unlike willow farm in Tesco's that hit the papers recently
I'm amazed people think they get better service in a supermarket, truly amazed
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Banned
You can't really compare a supermarket to a butcher's because they don't have them - only meat counters.
Edit - doubled up with photovisons post, but expanding on what he said buy some bacon from a butchers and from a supermarket and dry fry them both. Then you will see the difference.
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Indivijewelistic
I have worked in supermarkets and, yes, I think anyone who has worked in a supermarket would never buy off their deli or meat counters. I will not expand as it would be unnecessary to upset people and I don't want a court action from one of the big 4 supermarkets!
I open on Sundays because I am a craft shop and it would be madness not to, weekends are when most people do their craft. I do close on Monday though, because there is only me and I do need one day off to get to things like to docs, dentist or opticians. I tried to not close for a day, but it was more confusing and frustrating for the customers when they turned up to see a sign saying I had shut early for a dental appointment - even though it had been up for weeks, I still understood their frustration - now they know that I am always closed on a Monday its fine and they make sure they have everything they need on the Sunday.
I open on Sundays because I am a craft shop and it would be madness not to, weekends are when most people do their craft. I do close on Monday though, because there is only me and I do need one day off to get to things like to docs, dentist or opticians. I tried to not close for a day, but it was more confusing and frustrating for the customers when they turned up to see a sign saying I had shut early for a dental appointment - even though it had been up for weeks, I still understood their frustration - now they know that I am always closed on a Monday its fine and they make sure they have everything they need on the Sunday.
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Indivijewelistic
Forgot to say - also, when you walk through my door I smile and hello, I think that is the best marketing you can do, make it personal.
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My own experience aside (anecdotal), if service in all independent shops is that bad, there would be no independent shops left. QED...
It's fair to say that some may appear to offer a reasonable level of 'customer service'. However, it's unlikely they will genuinely listen to you or make any alterations to their stock or procedures based on your complaint. It's a numbers game for them; it's much easier to give a bit of money back to the 1 in 500 people that kick up a stink as they make a huge profit on the other 499 people that just shrugging the problem off or may not notice a problem at all.
As for product knowledge, supermarket employees have anything from none to very little. Knowing where the item is located in their public warehouse does not constitute 'product knowledge'.
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Technically it's more expensive, but in real terms it isn't; you get what you pay for, and cheap food is cheap for a reason.
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windlesham
I didn't stipulate supermarkets I said large stores. I find places like john lewis and B&Q the staff have an excellent grasp of the items they sell.
It's very easy to make the claim that because a store is small and independent they provide better service but this isn't really the case, it's hit and miss at best.
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Interesting debate... didn't skim read it, read it thoroughly, went a bit crazy with the "thanks" buttons as a sign of appreciation... couldn't do all the posts, as that would be silly.
My 5p...
* Businesses should be free to open 24/7/365. Its unlikely they will open non-stop, its practically impossible for any shop big or small to open continuously forever... and they will reduce opening hours over holiday periods. It is a good piece of enterprise for a competitor to capitalise over another competitor, because they are open when the other is shut.
* Post offices are terrible. I appreciate they are common targets for armed gangs (usually with guns, knifes, or some other sort of weapon), but every time I walk into one I feel unwelcome and a criminal. Armed with... erm, arms and what they call a large letter or packet. I even got asked for ID when trying to buy a lottery ticket once! Only a few years back... I am surely not in my teens although I think it was done as a joke in spite more than thinking I was 15 or under.
* Do not assume that supermarket "employees" are paid. Tesco have been in the news recently for having up to hundreds of jobseekers per store, working for them at no cost (they are paid unemployment benefits). Is it exploitation? Well, Tescos profits keep increasing... some people are unemployed at choice, most find it difficult to get a job because there simply are more people applying than jobs available in such area, and as a whole. Tescos even sold their stores to an international company they set up to rent back (all legal of course but dodged tax). If you are lowering your tax bill (lets admit we would all do it given the chance) at least have the decency to employ people!
* Independent butchers etc. will always be superior over supermarkets. General store Vs specialists... pick the latter every time. Maplin claims to be, but they are not in my eyes a specialist. Do you want quality or a cheap price? Going back to Maplin as an example, they used to annoy me by discontinuing 90% of my order list after paying for a catalogue - about 1-2 months after catalogue came out - can obviously get things cheaper online - but now their own brand items have gone from average (satisfactory) quality to very cheap china produced items - the very low end scale of production in China, to save costs. So what once came from China and worked... you now stand a chance of getting it from a mediocre factory producing it cheaper where you have to return it!
* Independent stores do suffer from people using supermarkets, of course... however, when was the last time independent shops advertised to you the consumer? They appear somewhat dis-hearted and rely on regulars and people just walking by (footfall) interested having a look. I am sick of getting leaflets from small fastfood outlets (to be fair pizza hut etc. also does it) sometimes getting the same leaflet delivered 3 times per week... so what makes them different to these independent small stores? Why don't they get leaflets printed? I have not got any junk mail or leaflets through my door from Tesco, ASDA and Sainsburys for years... I have got Morrison's from time to time. I do get promotional mail from Tesco as part of clubcard. If people are stuck in their ways of using the supermarkets, like we all are, you cannot expect people to wander by some shop of yesteryear to be tempted by high prices. You must actively undertake marketing continuously NOT leave it down to chance of people walking by. Does any of these stores even have social media promotion?
My 5p...
* Businesses should be free to open 24/7/365. Its unlikely they will open non-stop, its practically impossible for any shop big or small to open continuously forever... and they will reduce opening hours over holiday periods. It is a good piece of enterprise for a competitor to capitalise over another competitor, because they are open when the other is shut.
* Post offices are terrible. I appreciate they are common targets for armed gangs (usually with guns, knifes, or some other sort of weapon), but every time I walk into one I feel unwelcome and a criminal. Armed with... erm, arms and what they call a large letter or packet. I even got asked for ID when trying to buy a lottery ticket once! Only a few years back... I am surely not in my teens although I think it was done as a joke in spite more than thinking I was 15 or under.
* Do not assume that supermarket "employees" are paid. Tesco have been in the news recently for having up to hundreds of jobseekers per store, working for them at no cost (they are paid unemployment benefits). Is it exploitation? Well, Tescos profits keep increasing... some people are unemployed at choice, most find it difficult to get a job because there simply are more people applying than jobs available in such area, and as a whole. Tescos even sold their stores to an international company they set up to rent back (all legal of course but dodged tax). If you are lowering your tax bill (lets admit we would all do it given the chance) at least have the decency to employ people!
* Independent butchers etc. will always be superior over supermarkets. General store Vs specialists... pick the latter every time. Maplin claims to be, but they are not in my eyes a specialist. Do you want quality or a cheap price? Going back to Maplin as an example, they used to annoy me by discontinuing 90% of my order list after paying for a catalogue - about 1-2 months after catalogue came out - can obviously get things cheaper online - but now their own brand items have gone from average (satisfactory) quality to very cheap china produced items - the very low end scale of production in China, to save costs. So what once came from China and worked... you now stand a chance of getting it from a mediocre factory producing it cheaper where you have to return it!
* Independent stores do suffer from people using supermarkets, of course... however, when was the last time independent shops advertised to you the consumer? They appear somewhat dis-hearted and rely on regulars and people just walking by (footfall) interested having a look. I am sick of getting leaflets from small fastfood outlets (to be fair pizza hut etc. also does it) sometimes getting the same leaflet delivered 3 times per week... so what makes them different to these independent small stores? Why don't they get leaflets printed? I have not got any junk mail or leaflets through my door from Tesco, ASDA and Sainsburys for years... I have got Morrison's from time to time. I do get promotional mail from Tesco as part of clubcard. If people are stuck in their ways of using the supermarkets, like we all are, you cannot expect people to wander by some shop of yesteryear to be tempted by high prices. You must actively undertake marketing continuously NOT leave it down to chance of people walking by. Does any of these stores even have social media promotion?
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Not really. This seems to be a common argument put forth by people that know supporting the supermarkets is a bad thing but need a justification to make themselves feel better. Reason says more often than not the service in a small business, where poor service can literally be the end of the business, will tend to be better.
Yeah, yeah, supermarkets were the topic and it's a bit disingenuous to move the goalposts, but whatever. This thread is about Sunday trading, not how bad supermarkets are.
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Esk247
I'm all for an increase in Sunday trading, i think UK B&M retailers need the opportunity to compete more readily with the internet.
Opening at 9am and closing at 5pm just doesn't wash in the days where most people are working between those hours, this is another reason why supermarkets have expanded so readily, they're open when you need them, free parking, convenience, efficiency at getting you through the door, pretend special offers etc.
Small retailers need to have big ideas, opening longer will lead to bigger footfall, more chance to sell and more convenience for shoppers on the high street.
I hate seeing a dead high street at 8pm on a Sunday when all that is open is McDonalds and the pubs. Independent retailers should be permitted to compete 7 days a week. 24 hour opening is a push but certainly options to open until 9pm should be allowed.
Opening at 9am and closing at 5pm just doesn't wash in the days where most people are working between those hours, this is another reason why supermarkets have expanded so readily, they're open when you need them, free parking, convenience, efficiency at getting you through the door, pretend special offers etc.
Small retailers need to have big ideas, opening longer will lead to bigger footfall, more chance to sell and more convenience for shoppers on the high street.
I hate seeing a dead high street at 8pm on a Sunday when all that is open is McDonalds and the pubs. Independent retailers should be permitted to compete 7 days a week. 24 hour opening is a push but certainly options to open until 9pm should be allowed.
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Not forced to open, simply allowed to open. Free to set their own hours and yes, to open 24/7/365 if they want to.
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Banned
They already can open 24 hours a day 365 days a year providing they are below 3,000 sqft which is larger than pretty much most independents. And if there was profit in opening longer hours I think you will find they would.
Our town is dead by 4.30pm on a Saturday (I open until 5pm Saturdays), why would I stay open longer? Weekday we shut at 6pm because the town is busy(ish) until about 5.30pm. Most independents know exactly what they are doing to maximise profit, unlike the supermarket blunderbuss approach.
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