Justification for Meetings with Clients - Do You?

[bdw]

'm not going to argue about it, but just explain in one sentence why you feel it's unreasonable of you to go out and visit clients to get new business.

I thought I has explained this in my first post but you are misrepresenting me. I do not think it is unreasonable. I just think that under certain circumstances it can be unreasonable such as when a client is only going to be spending £300 and attending a meeting would mean my time being wasted and I use the term "wasted" advisedly.

You have chosen to remain anonymous so I don't know what you do but I think we can assume that it is not website design. Otherwise you would know be more understanding. Meeting with clients are an essential part of some businesses.

Apart from often being infeasible as I have fully explained, meetings about website design with clients are often unproductive and are more likely to lead to misunderstanding than written communications. When site is launched clients can and do sometimes raise issues about work that was "agreed" and not done. Disputes about this do not happen when a written record and specification of requirements is available.

This does not apply to builders and other businesses where onsite visits are necessary before being able to quote for the work. There is very little that can be discussed at a meeting about website design that cannot be dicussed by telephone and email and nothing at all at this end of the market.

Hopefully I have made myself clear this time.

.

 

[bdw]

A local web design company flew to the States to see a prospective client.

For a £300 job?

I thought that we had the nous to keep this in perspective.

.

 

[Mustaka]

I think the concept of having a meeting before business is agreed is somewhat of a dated concept for certain industries. With the advent of the web access to information needed to make a business decision is far better than it was 20 years ago. It used to be you had to have a meeting because other channels for getting the information in order to make a business decision where not available.

And I believe what the OP is actually saying is some people want to have a meeting for the sake of having a meeting either because thats what they think businesses do from lack of experience, or because they are a relic and don't get that in the web industry the conversation is going to end the same if business is agreed.

Please email me the content for the site. You have to be in front of a computer to do that and not sat in some clients office.

As for the solution to the OP question I really don't think there is one. What we all learn in business is that some clients are a pain to deal with. We each reach a tolerance level for what sort of grief we will take from our clients. And in some cases even sack clients who are to unsupportable.

 

[JohnnyCash]

If you want to treat web design like a hobby rather than a real job, then just insist on no meetings and its problem solved.

 

[bdw]

Thank you very much Mustaka - the voice of reason.

.

 

[greenguru]

I completely agree with you and if you're open and honest about the situation it baffles me why people get so irate about such matters.

I would suggest setting up conference meetings through skype or similar services. this way they can see your face and its a virtual meeting. This would cost less than going.

Other than that I definitely would get them to come to you - or meet half way in a hotel bar or public house. This way it's less formal and the client will probably relax more anyway.

 

[mauahmed]

Nothing can replace face to face meeting.

 

[MJBMI]

positioning, by positioning and aiming for this level of client you are not giving yourself any (or much) scope for wastage and yet this level of client is notorious for producing masses of wastage (Id love it but I only have £150 , can I pay once it makes me profit, can we spread that £300 over 12 months ) .

Maybe you need better pre qualifying on your site or on the phone or better positioning by you . What is your profit per client on £300 site even with no meeting ? can you charge 3 times that amount and have 3 times fewer clients with more profits? You havent mentioned anything on page one about cross selling or upselling or any backend you have so is the £300 the start and end of the sales cycle? maybe look at that for sure

 

[JohnnyCash]

bdw - you're operating in a niche full of bedroom wannabes, idiots, dreamers, scammers and Indian spammers.

Perhaps some of these people are arranging meetings to see if you're even a "real" business and not yet another kid playing about, or a person in Delhi about to rip off someones else design and pass it off as web design.

Your site gives the impression of not being a "real" business since you don't list an address or any company info that I could easily see. Personally I wouldn't even contact you for a quote because of that. I would just assume you're a teenager working out of your mums bedroom.

Speculating here, but if you addressed those issues, maybe people would feel less inclined to force you to come out to meet them?

 

[maxine]

I think what's difficult is even if you don't feel a meeting is necessary, your customer might. This might be your 100,000th website but it may be their first If you can offer things such as pay-on-completion or no-quibble-money-back then it's an example of taking away the risk without suffering costs of a meeting.

The other thing with meetings is the upsell/cross sell opportunities and sometimes these only tend to come out at face to face meetings.

I don't see what all this emotional blurb on here is about ie; just because it's a home based business, pc in a bedroom or whatever, I thought we were all business people on here. What's the point of lowering your margin if you don't have to?

Plumbers, Sales reps, Accountants, Builders all have different business models. I have tried to reduce meetings with plumbing enquiries and that's a no go from our side as well as the customers. Occasionally we can work from photos but because local reputation is important in a small geographic location it's nicer in that business to meet people, build up a rapport, be remembered and secure future work and referrals.

Why not ask a few customers how important a meeting is for them and why? It may help with conversion to understand why

 

[GeorgeStrait]

OK, your designing a website for a shop, how can you get a "feel" for that shop, know it's individual circumstances, what the owners and customers are like and their expectations if you don't visit them.

Real life for most businesses is out there in the physical world, and if you don't "touch and feel" it then your not going to be portraying it at it's best.

But then I said in my last past, my bad, I neglected to take into the account the market you are aiming your services at. So yes, for the customers you are seeking you are probably right, there is no need to see them and nurture a long lasting business relationship.

So I was wrong in this instance, I should have looked at the details a bit more closely, sorry

 

[MJBMI]

OK, your designing a website for a shop, how can you get a "feel" for that shop, know it's individual circumstances, what the owners and customers are like and their expectations if you don't visit them.

Real life for most businesses is out there in the physical world, and if you don't "touch and feel" it then your not going to be portraying it at it's best.

But then I said in my last past, my bad, I neglected to take into the account the market you are aiming your services at. So yes, for the customers you are seeking you are probably right, there is no need to see them and nurture a long lasting business relationship.

So I was wrong in this instance, I should have looked at the details a bit more closely, sorry

And therein lies the difference between a simple website designer and a nailed on internet marketing consultant, the designer just does the site, full stop, the internet marketer will be more interested in what you mention above and much more and in the relationship for the long term

 

[Christine Hough]

Yes,

I got the impression the OP just wanted us all to moan with him about client expectations.
If he does not want to visit and has a business model sorted out that way, I genuinely wish him all the best. But what was he asking on the forum for? Did he not know some would have a different take on it?

But he seemed very resistant to people trying to explain from the clients point of view why they wanted personal contact, and dismissive of suggestions to up sell.

I am not saying anything is easy, and I certainly have to layout (mainly in advertising) huge amounts which do not necessarily give an immediate return. Over time I have got to know those which give better returns as I have understood my clients more.

But in the early days I drove from Hull to Halifax to try and see what the problem was for a client who said they could not hear the soundclips. When I got there they had sound on mute. So that was an easy fix. They didn't even seem particularly apologetic but took it as a reasonable service for an enrolment which cost £5.00. I wouldn't do that now, but it was all part of the learning and if there had of been a problem with the site, I really needed to have known.

 

[bdw]

What I find very strange is that so many of the anonymous people in here seem to want to tell me about my business model and what I really want. Do you honestly think that you know more about my business than I do?

Trust me, I know my business. I have been doing this for ten years and I am happy and successful in my niche. You nay sayers are making the mistake of assuming otherwise and also assuming that website design is the same as other businesses in this context.

It is not and I must admit that I am extremely surprised that in 2011 so many people in a forum like this have railed against the concept of business being conducted online. It is also surprising that so many people seem not to be able to grasp the concept. Strange indeed ... :|

But thank you all for your contributions. Let's move on.

.

 

[MASSEY]

Scottish people eh

 

[Christine Hough]

We are not railing at anything.
We are explaining why a client may want a meeting, cost effective ways of meeting their need and suggestions. And some have said they operate online only and ways of cementing this in the client's perception.

We are not saying we understand your business better than you.
Nor do you understand your client's businesses better than they do (except possibly start-ups)

If you want to work online only, that is absolutely fine.
Its your business and your business model.

But if you ask for comments on the forum, don't expect everyone else to automatically re-enforce your opinions.

 

[Matthew_28]

Meetings... events where minutes are taken and hours lost.

 

[GeorgeStrait]

Meetings... events where minutes are taken and hours lost.

....and deals done, contracts exchanged, money made and long term business relationships built

 

[Christine Hough]

PS I am not anonymous either!

 

[GeorgeStrait]

Well I'm only anonymous so that if I should start going on about how I don't feel it's worth my time or effort looking after my customers and building relationships with them, they won't know it's me, and I'll keep the contracts

Or any of the other foolish things I may say that might hurt my business

It's a World Wide Web don't you know and visible to all.

 

[bdw]

money made and long term business relationships built

I have several long term clients throughout the UK that I have never met. In my experience meetings are not required to form business relationships. What is more important for this is service.

Nor do you understand your client's businesses better than they do

And of course I didn't claim to do so, but when someone comes to me looking for a website I almost always understand their requirements better than they do. Most of my clients appreciate this and their feedback confirms it.

.

 

[Roger.S]

Hi there, I'm new here and really interested in what I've seen so far, like minded people, business enquiries, tips, help- sounds great!

I am a freelancer myself, PR and media is my thing, and I do agree with the replies above.

You can make sure that your website contains precise information as to what you offer and in what price.If you cannot afford the travelling in certain cases, add this info so it would be clear what to expect from your services.
A lower rate package that can be handled through the phone and on-line can be quoted and so on.Personal service, face-to-face would have to be compensated accordingly.

most importantly, have testimonies,reviews and samples of your work available, as these are the real proof that you are a professional, and can deliver.

Hope it helps,and good luck!

Roger.

Hope it

 

[estwig]

when someone comes to me looking for a website I almost always understand their requirements better than they do.

The arrogance is literally, breathtaking!!!

 

[bdw]

What on earth is arrogant about that? Are you just in your trolling mode again?

And I suggest you open a window if you are having breathing problems.

.

 

[bdw]

You can make sure that your website contains precise information as to what you offer and in what price.

Hi Roger and welcome to the discussion. I agree with you and this discussion is based on the fact that I have freely provided this information. (I wish some of the replies acknowledged this.)

I actually explained earlier that I do offer detailed information on my website which includes the following ...

Website Design Consultancy Meetings

For low cost websites within this price range I cannot normally include a visit to your premises. Taking a few hours out of my schedule for a meeting and adding traveling costs would not be viable options for a £400 job.

Fortunately this is not a problem as everything can be done via email and the telephone. I don't actually get to meet many of my clients and meetings are generally only needed for large websites and where detailed consultancy is involved.

Should the job be large enough a meeting can of course be arranged at no cost, or alternatively, if you need information and consultancy about your proposed website at your site I can do this on a time and expenses basis.

Being a freelancer our meeting can take place at any mutually suitable time, including evenings and weekends. (We can even meet in a pub if you like )

 

[estwig]

What on earth is arrogant about that? Are you just in your trolling mode again?

And I suggest you open a window if you are having breathing problems.

.

You take all the fun out of trolling, your easier to troll than it is to follow the instructions on a bottle of shampoo!!

 

[GeorgeStrait]

The arrogance is literally, breathtaking!!!

There are a few web/marketing people out there, generally at the bottom end of the market, that think they know better than their client. What I have found is they have limited capabilities or a working down to a low level (price & quality wise) that they blindly do what they think is best ignoring the actual requirements, often because they haven't understood or listened to their client.

I've seen this happen very recently with a graphic artist who knew what his customer wanted better than they did, he had a very specific brief and went so far off that he didn't get paid, recommended or used again.

Horses for courses, or just those that are in business for the long term rather than short term. It could be arrogance, it could be ignorance.

Personal opinions from what I have experienced by the way and in no way a reference to any poster here

 

[MJBMI]

but your positioning and pricing says otherwise. if you are as great as you say you are (understanding their needs better than they do ) ( I actually get what you mean there i think as in you know your industry and therefore what can be done whereas they just know they want a site with XYZ colours and a pretty flash page etc) , why are you positioned at the lower end of the industry where all the time wasters and cheapskates reside?

The main reason you feel you waste time on meetings is because the cost of the meeting isnt factored into your pricing

 

[bdw]

why are you positioned at the lower end of the industry where all the time wasters and cheapskates reside?

Who says I am at the lower end of the industry? Many of you are making this assumption because I mentioned a charge of £300 in my example. I have tried to explain several times that this is my minimum charge. If you are not going to accept what I tell you then there's really no point in arguing about it.

I have been in this business for ten years. I have learned a lot about website design, SEO and Marketing but I do not need a lot of work or hassle as I head towards retirement in a couple of years time. I have already made this point - I am where I want to be. Is there something wrong with that? Why must people assume that we are all have aspirations to be rich and powerful or chasing vast sums of money? I am happy with what I have and what I earn.

 

[bdw]

Regarding ...

when someone comes to me looking for a website I almost always understand their requirements better than they do.

Those of you who cannot understand this are either trolling, mischief making or you sincerely do not know what you are talking about. How many small business people outside of the website design community are likely to come to me with an enquiry about web design when they already know more than me?

The fact is that the vast majority of my new clients haven't got a clue what they want :| when they start the enquiry process and they are quite happy to admit it and to accept my advice and assistance.

This is fun, isn't it?

.

 

[JohnnyCash]

Who says I am at the lower end of the industry? Many of you are making this assumption because I mentioned a charge of £300 in my example. I have tried to explain several times that this is my minimum charge. If you are not going to accept what I tell you then there's really no point in arguing about it.

When you say you start from £300 what do you expect people to think other than you're at the bottom end of the industry?

High end web designers won't even do a logo for £300, let alone a website. If you didn't want people to come to the conclusion you were doing quick and cheap throwaway websites you shouldn't have mentioned £300...

 

[bdw]

Pay attention!

The whole point was that the problem only exists at the lower end of the market with the lowest cost websites.

.

 

[estwig]

Your worse than a terrier, won't let go of his favourite stick!!

 

[JohnnyCash]

Pay attention!

The whole point was that the problem only exists at the lower end of the market with the lowest cost websites.

.

Well you've 2 choices:

• Stop complaining
• Stop selling low quality websites to low quality customers

Simple really.

 

[bdw]

Well you've 2 choices:

I'll decide what choices I have if you don't mind and I wasn't complaining. I was asking for opinions. That's what the forum is for by the way. Some of us in here can share experiences and opinions without trolling.

Do you get some sort of strange pleasure out of bravely trolling while protected by your anonymity? :|

.

 

[GeorgeStrait]

BDW

You keep on about anonymity.

Quote one thing on this thread you said that will encourage customers to use you?

Then maybe consider changing your username.

Just a suggestion

 

[JohnnyCash]

I'll decide what choices I have if you don't mind and I wasn't complaining. I was asking for opinions. That's what the forum is for by the way. Some of us in here can share experiences and opinions without trolling.

Do you get some sort of strange pleasure out of bravely trolling while protected by your anonymity? :|

.

So if someone doesn't agree with you, they're trolling?

How about I reword my reply above to say My opinion is that you have 2 choices, would that be more agreeable to you? Wouldn't want you getting any more flustered than you already are...

Not sure what your point is about the anonymity - I'm neither buying nor selling here so I don't feel the need to list my websites. You're the one with the big billboard in your signature - you're looking for new business, not me.

 

[MJBMI]

BDW we are now trying to help others who may be in the same boat, we havent all got the time to read all 12 pages of this drivel chest beating ******** , every time someone says something that doesnt meet your ideals you add another piece to your opening post to suit your argument.

Your business model is flawed if you are only looking at £300 as the lifetime value of the low end client
You know websites, I know business models , even yours , your clients know less about what they need than you do, well it works both ways .
I wont bother saying anymore unless someone else requests as you are clearly a lost cause

 

[bdw]

Wouldn't want you getting any more flustered than you already are...

Moi? Flustered by you? I don't think so.

Quote one thing on this thread you said that will encourage customers to use you?

Is that another definition of what this thread is for? I would never have known. :|

Going out now for a few beers and a game of bowls. Have fun while I am away.

.

 

[Christine Hough]

How many meetings could you have had while reading this thread and composing answers I wonder? They may have been more profitable as I doubt you have got anything from this discussion.