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Justification for Meetings with Clients - Do You?

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bdw

As part of my business I do website design but this problem could apply to any business or service with low fees.

At my age I try to avoid hassle so I now tend to concentrate on simpler, low cost brochureware websites starting from £300 upwards. Quite often I get clients who want a little four page page website requesting a meeting. They may be an hour's drive away and the meeting could cost me a significant percentage of the £300 in time and petrol. :(

On occasion I get people who get quite irate when I tell them that attending an onsite meeting is not feasible for me for low cost jobs like this. All I need is for them to tell me what they want on the phone then email me the content for the website and it can all be done without a meeting.

Am I being unreasonable? Does this happen to you and how do you deal with it when it does?

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bdw said:
As part of my business I do website design but this problem could apply to any business or service with low fees.

At my age I try to avoid hassle so I now tend to concentrate on simpler, low cost brochureware websites starting from £300 upwards. Quite often I get clients who want a little four page page website requesting a meeting. They may be an hour's drive away and the meeting could cost me a significant percentage of the £300 in time and petrol. :(

On occasion I get people who get quite irate when I tell them that attending an onsite meeting is not feasible for me for low cost jobs like this. All I need is for them to tell me what they want on the phone then email me the content for the website and it can all be done without a meeting.

Am I being unreasonable? Does this happen to you and how do you deal with it when it does?

.
Click to expand...

Maybe you could make this really clear on your website so that clients appreciate this before they contact you - my firm operates online only and doesn't offer client client meetings. I have never once had a client (or potential client) for who it has been a problem.
 
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I don't think you're being unreasonable. As someone with 20 years sales experience, I've always said there is an amount of money you can get someone to spend without them needing to see the whites of your eyes and the sweat of your palm. For many businesses I think you could probably get them to spend £7K without them needing to meet you to do it (and before I get hacked at, it of course depends on what you sell, what size your customers are etc.). Surely someone can risk £300 without needing to drag someone on a three hour round trip?

I'd actually suggest that if they can't then they're qualifying themselves out. So, you should focus on companies for whom that size of investment isn't a big deal so they'll spend it without meeting; or companies that are closer and for whom a trip to get it closed and content agreed isn't a margin sapping expense.

Or put your prices up...
 
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I agree, for a £300 job a meeting that could take 3 hours plus petrol is not feasible. You could suggest they come to you or your local coffee shop though, and wrap the meeting up in 30-45 mins as a compromise. The very act of suggesting to them they make the journey could name them realise the time and cost involved. Or simply tell them the cost of you visiting will be £200.
 
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I hate meetings. They are usually a complete waste of time and you don't have a proper record of what was agreed as you would via email correspondence.

Some people are fixated on them unfortunately. These are people with nothing better to do.

Just say "no".
 
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Why not use an online meeting.

I guess part of it is that you are also selling to small outfits where £300 is a big commitment.
The decision to have a website might be a huge emotional thing for them.
And it may be their finances, even in the hundreds not thousands, make it impossible to have a second go if things are not right first time.

There is online meeting software around and it is a case of setting an agenda for the meeting.
What is it they want from the meeting.
If it is to see your work you can run through some examples.
If it is for them to brief you then you can use a questionnaire.
If it is to take photos to use on the site, brief them to do that themselves!
 
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I had exactly the same problem with my web design business when I started. If you promote your business as offering a personal service then most customers will want you to come and see them. My advice is to build that into the price and charge more in the first place.

In any event, it is much easier to design a website when you sit down face to face with the customer. It is also a great selling opportunity.

You could set up a separate web site offering a less personal service at the lower cost. The poster who hasn't had a problem calls himself "My Accountant Online". That makes it very clear what service he offers so there are no misunderstandings.

If you promote yourself as a local web designer then you will have to go and visit most customers as they will expect this and you will have to ensure your rates cover this.
 
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Why not state it clearly on your website?
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My website is designed to attract people not chase them away.:eek: It could perhaps be perceived as a negative by some people whether or not they had considered the requirement for a meeting.

I guess part of it is that you are also selling to small outfits where £300 is a big commitment.
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Some of my enquirers think £50 is a big commitment. :eek:

But seriously, these same people would not think of asking a representative from a furniture store to spend two or three hours doing a home visit in an attempt to sell you a sofa that could cost a couple of grand.

Some people (particularly start ups) think that you owe them this.

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If a client wants a meeting, they're welcome to come and see me in my office.

I used to go out to see people at home or work, but the time wasted was ridiculous not just in terms of travelling but also in terms of sitting around twiddling my thumbs whilst they answered the phone/door, etc. I also suffered a lot of wasted calls when the client "forgot" I was coming and went out or was late back from somewhere leaving me on the doorstep.

There are some isolated cases where I visit a client, i.e. if they are disabled and can't get into my office, or if I need to go to their business premises i.e. where there is too much paperwork to transport to me or where I need access to their live computer on site.

Very occasionally, a potential client won't come to me and won't deal remotely, but I don't lose sleep over it - I regard it as a lucky escape as it's best to avoid awkward clients from the outset, and if they're awkward about expecting me to travel to see them, then there's every chance they'll be awkward about lots of other things as well.

To the OP, I'd say, just don't lose sleep over it. The vast majority of people won't expect you to visit. Offer for them to come and see you.
 
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I sent a detailed spec and asked for a meeting (I offered to visit him) to be sure he understood everything we needed before quoting but he declined a couple of times. It is quite a complex site and data driven so not in the £300 range at all.

Sadly I still went with him because he kept telling me how confident he was he could deliver, and it has cost him huge amounts of time over his estimate, it is still not live and the development has overrun by far more than I dare say on a public forum!

Both of us have suffered!
NEVER will I commission a site again without being sure the programmer understands what is wanted.
 
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I like the idea of whoever suggested having two businesses, one offering purely remote services at low cost, and another site where meetings are the norm, but prices higher. They appeal to two different groups of people.

Failing that I think you should advertise as a "product" the idea of a fixed price £300 website where all the work is done by email/phone.

You could advertise other (more expensive) services as well.

This might actually assist you in selling your sites, as people would preselect themselves as falling into one category (skinflint!) or another (loadsamoney!). Does that make sense?
 
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Failing that I think you should advertise as a "product" the idea of a fixed price £300 website where all the work is done by email/phone.
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I already do this and I have been doing it for about two years now but there has been very little take up.

[But why clients can reasonable want a meeting.
Click to expand...
:| Que? :|

.
 
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Site visits are a real pain for me and I try and avoid them at all costs.

Its mainly because my clients are spread across the UK and a visiting some of them just for a 1 hour meeting would turn in to a 1 or even 2 day trek.

In 95% of cases my clients accept this and everything is done remotely using remote access software etc. (Strange thing is, the odd one or two I do go and visit always end up being the pain in the arse type of customer.)
 
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Clients can want a meeting to gauge whether you have understood what they want, their company image, what they are wanting to project, even for a small site.

They may have spent years building up their image and message so for example if a cafe had built up a traditional old-fashioned service, they would not want a site which looked American diner.
They may have particular photos, images or colours they want incorporated, or to incorporate publicity or testimonials.

This is not unreasonable.
But may be dealt with by spec or online meeting and should not incur you in travel costs.

Remember it may be only one project of a list of work to you, but it is their whole business and what they are about you are projecting and they will be locked into that for a long time.
 
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Remember it may be only one project of a list of work to you, but it is their whole business and what they are about you are projecting and they will be locked into that for a long time.
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Yes, I fully appreciate what a website is for. This is my whole business and I have been locked into it for a long time.

The problem with start ups is that they often have to learn to think like business people and quite often they cannot do that until they have some experience of it themselves. I have found that some of them are totally unrealistic about what they should be paying and what service level to expect.

.
 
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Why not up the price from 300 - 400 problem solved.

300 is pretty cheap to be honest....
 
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Why not charge an up front "consultancy fee" to cover travel costs and time; and then offer a discount to cover this fee should they award the £300 (or other price) job to you.
 
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As above, simply openly charge for your time, they shouldn't find the concept of reward for work that hard too understand.

I used to get asked to do things for free, I simply ask the person if they work for free, because if they do I can happily keep them busy for life. No-one has ever offered to work for free yet.
 
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I work with a company that invoices me for their time and fuel when they visit me. Because I request the meeting I'm more than happy to pay. I did know about their set up before I signed up for their services.
I hope this helps
 
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bdw said:
My website is designed to attract people not chase them away.:eek: It could perhaps be perceived as a negative by some people whether or not they had considered the requirement for a meeting.


.
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But surely it saves you wasting your time and that of potential clients if you state how you operate on your website.:)

I'd much rather know how a firm operates and the more I can see this clearly stated on a website the better.
 
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I'm a strong believer in meeting face to face. It solves a lot of problems.

(I currently have a major problem with my staff, bad tempers, arguments and accusations all round. The reason is that one customer sidestepped our usual communication channel which is through a sales rep and sent an email which was not fully explained to everyone who needed to know.

During a lifetime in business I can honestly say that about 95% of customer problems have been with the 5% who we have never met face to face.)
 
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Not sure about this charging for a meeting, it's a bit like being charged to look round a shop. OK you have petrol and your time, a shop keeper has far higher costs and their time as well to get their customers.

Do you web guys really just expect to get jobs with little or no effort?

Edit
Serious question by the way, not being facetious :)
 
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I as a customer was more than happy to visit the programmers.

I knew otherwise sooner or later I would need to bear the charge which would not only be for fuel costs but also time and subsistence if appropriate.

That way at least I was in control of the costs.
 
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I think that some of you may not be appreciating how hard it is to get website design business nowadays.

Why not charge an up front "consultancy fee" to cover travel costs and time
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Because no one will pay it. (I have been in this business for ten years by the way.) ;)

Do you web guys really just expect to get jobs with little or no effort?
Click to expand...
Do honestly think that building and maintaining a website that will generate sufficient enquiries to support a web design business can be done with "little or no effort"? :mad:

.
 
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At the lower end of the web design market its always going to be the same - lots of "designers" who just left school and bought a book on photoshop competing with you for the same scraps. And Indians doing crap work for £2 an hour. Competing on price in the web design niche is a suckers proposition, imo.

If you can build useful and usable websites you'd be far better building them for yourself, and monetizing them. No client meetings, no annoying customers, no hassle at all. And ultimately way more money, if you can get past the short/medium term of no client payments coming in.
 
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Charge an additional fee for 'on-site consultancy' and consider it an upgraded form of project support. You're being paid to create a website. You're not being paid to travel long distances just because a client prefers it - even though E-mail and telephone communication would be perfectly acceptable methods.

If someone wants on-site consultancy, then they pay for the privilege of that. If they refuse to pay it, then you don't do it. There's no real magic solution to this which pleases everyone, so that's all you can do. Potential clients hundreds of miles away should understand that you can't spend an entire working day travelling across the country for free because they want to ask you a few questions. I certainly wouldn't expect that of any business which I requested a service from.
 
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Scott-CopyandDesign said:
Charge an additional fee for 'on-site consultancy' and consider it an upgraded form of project support. You're being paid to create a website. You're not being paid to travel long distances just because a client prefers it - even though E-mail and telephone communication would be perfectly acceptable methods.

If someone wants on-site consultancy, then they pay for the privilege of that. If they refuse to pay it, then you don't do it. There's no real magic solution to this which pleases everyone, so that's all you can do. Potential clients hundreds of miles away should understand that you can't spend an entire working day travelling across the country for free because they want to ask you a few questions. I certainly wouldn't expect that of any business which I requested a service from.
Click to expand...

What you're saying makes perfect sense, but there is a chronic oversupply of web designers at the bottom of the market... if they don't make concessions to clients re meetings etc then the chances are they simply don't get the work at all.

If a buyer is adamant he wants a web designer willing to travel to meet him (at his own cost), then charge a tenner an hour to design something he's going to find lots of people with a photoshop book willing to do exactly that.
 
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bdw said:
As part of my business I do website design but this problem could apply to any business or service with low fees.

At my age I try to avoid hassle so I now tend to concentrate on simpler, low cost brochureware websites starting from £300 upwards. Quite often I get clients who want a little four page page website requesting a meeting. They may be an hour's drive away and the meeting could cost me a significant percentage of the £300 in time and petrol. :(

On occasion I get people who get quite irate when I tell them that attending an onsite meeting is not feasible for me for low cost jobs like this. All I need is for them to tell me what they want on the phone then email me the content for the website and it can all be done without a meeting.

Am I being unreasonable? Does this happen to you and how do you deal with it when it does?

.
Click to expand...

seems straightforward to me, if you prefer to do sites for around £300 then by most peoples standards in your trade this would be bargain basement and as such would not include any meetings or site visits unless they come to you at your convenience? I can't see the problem in you stipulating this at the outset for that price bracket:|

With the service I provide, for a £300 job I take a view based on the customers previous way of contact and cirmcumstances - phone call, email enquiry, where they live and either say yes I'll visit for no charge (tough luck for me if I dont get the job) or ask them for more details over the phone/ email and give them a ball park price - only visiting if they agree this estimate...

anyway I thought you were always busy and didnt need the work;)
 
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JohnnyCash said:
What you're saying makes perfect sense, but there is a chronic oversupply of web designers at the bottom of the market... if they don't make concessions to clients re meetings etc then the chances are they simply don't get the work at all.

If a buyer is adamant he wants a web designer willing to travel to meet him (at his own cost), then charge a tenner an hour to design something he's going to find lots of people with a photoshop book willing to do exactly that.
Click to expand...

By all means make concessions. If a client within a certain radius (say, 10-20 miles) then it would well be worth visiting for a meeting.

However, if a designer travels too far, then it gets to the stage where most of his profit is being used on petrol and he's basically robbing himself. So yes, make concessions by all means, but have enough respect for yourself so you're being paid fairly for your time.
 
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Well you might need to make the choice - paid less than fairly, or not paid at all. If I was about to go hungry I'd take the former.
 
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There is very little you can upsell to someone who values their online business at so little in the first place, that they were trying to buy a website for £300.

At best you'll get a small referral fee from a hosting company.
 
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I guess it is hard, it is always hard to be at the cheap end of things...
but what about upselling ...

SEO
email marketing campaigning (regular monthly newsletters formatted and sent and maintaining anti-spam compliance)
a fee of say 1/10th ongoing for updating and keeping the site clean.
A report of usage.
Running an ebay shop or them.

I am always being told that a site needs to be used to build a community, hence regular emailing and I know many will say 'no', but for the few who will give you more reign you can help them build their business so they can pay you more and get more for themselves.

Your margins will increase as you can show your input increases their profit
 
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