Is this legal ?

[Searcher]

Can you include within an Adwords campaign key names/phrases from your competitors so that when people punch their name in your own website pops up next to theirs ? Thanks.

 

[PipeTen-Carl]

Yes, however you can apply to Google for adwords trademark protection http://adwords.google.com/support/aw/bin/answer.py?hl=en&answer=6118

 

[Searcher]

Thanks. But how would a competitor know if you're borrowing his name on Adwords ? And if Google has a problem with it do you just get a slapped wrist ? Or worse ?

 

[PipeTen-Carl]

Thanks. But how would a competitor know if you're borrowing his name on Adwords ? And if Google has a problem with it do you just get a slapped wrist ? Or worse ?

I've never gone through the actual process but as I understand it if you tell Google your trademark is being abused they simply prevent anyone from posting/displaying adwords containing your trademark or targeted at your trademark.

But how would a competitor know if you're borrowing his name on Adwords ?

Customer complaint, commercial trademark protection services, self-googling.

And if Google has a problem with it do you just get a slapped wrist ? Or worse ?

Google will only just stop you displaying the adverts however I would imagine the person whos trademark you've been ripping off would legally be able to come after you directly.

 

[Ben_Chemistry]

Can you include within an Adwords campaign key names/phrases from your competitors so that when people punch their name in your own website pops up next to theirs ? Thanks.

Things change but the last time i dealt with this:

• You can bid on someone else's trademark
• Your competitor can request that only their ads can use the trademarks in the ad text - but they have to be proactive about this
• Your competitor can not stop you bidding on the trademark
• BUT Adwords will make you pay for the privilege sending their customer to a page that is not relevant to the search term
  
  For example, I search for BMW, I see your ad using BMW's trademark, but the landing page is all about Mercedes.That's a low quality score, so a higher Cost Per Click, and highly likely the visitor will bounce back right away as it is not what they were looking for.
  
  So beware, competitor bidding needs to be well thought out. For example, if you can come up with some legally sound comparisons between you and the competitor - this could be useful to the visitor and still be relevant to the search.

 

[SteveHolmes]

Things change but the last time i dealt with this:

• You can bid on someone else's trademark
• Your competitor can request that only their ads can use the trademarks in the ad text - but they have to be proactive about this
• Your competitor can not stop you bidding on the trademark
• BUT Adwords will make you pay for the privilege sending their customer to a page that is not relevant to the search term
  
  For example, I search for BMW, I see your ad using BMW's trademark, but the landing page is all about Mercedes.That's a low quality score, so a higher Cost Per Click, and highly likely the visitor will bounce back right away as it is not what they were looking for.
  
  So beware, competitor bidding needs to be well thought out. For example, if you can come up with some legally sound comparisons between you and the competitor - this could be useful to the visitor and still be relevant to the search.

You can use a php code that will change your landing page to whatever the search term is. You can get very clever with ppc. I also have a friend selling a course on how to use your competitors offline advertising to your advantage using ppc, very clever and useful.

 

[Ali-v-8]

You cannot bid on a trade marked name unless you have permission .

Things change but the last time i dealt with this:

• You can bid on someone else's trademark
• Your competitor can request that only their ads can use the trademarks in the ad text - but they have to be proactive about this
• Your competitor can not stop you bidding on the trademark
• BUT Adwords will make you pay for the privilege sending their customer to a page that is not relevant to the search term
  
  For example, I search for BMW, I see your ad using BMW's trademark, but the landing page is all about Mercedes.That's a low quality score, so a higher Cost Per Click, and highly likely the visitor will bounce back right away as it is not what they were looking for.
  
  So beware, competitor bidding needs to be well thought out. For example, if you can come up with some legally sound comparisons between you and the competitor - this could be useful to the visitor and still be relevant to the search.

 

[Ben_Chemistry]

You cannot bid on a trade marked name unless you have permission .

Are you sure about that and can back it up? I'd be interested in seeing your sources.

I've dealt with many, many cases of competitors bidding on and using trade marks in ad text - all Google does after a complaint is prevent the use of the trademark in the ad text -but they'll still welcome the bid.

Admittedly I haven't dealt with it in a while , but my understanding is in line with Leap Frog's:

"Back in June 09, Google announced a major change to its trademark policy which meant that keywords (in a search query) could not be protected by a trademark. This effectively allowed competitors to begin bidding on previously trademarked keywords without causing an investigation by Google"

leapfrogg.co.uk/froggblog/2009/11/paid-search-bidding-on-competitors-brand-terms-the-why-s-and-wherefores/

and more of a legal article from just last week:

"An advertiser may choose to purchase its competitor's trademark or trade name as a keyword to target consumers seeking the competitor's website or product, and to increase the probability that the advertiser's keyword ad displays in the search results page along with the competitor's web address and link"

So you could argue Google is not the courts, and this can only be answered with in a test case. It looks like it all comes down to whether or not you are trying to pull the wool over the audiences eyes.

"But is this practice trademark infringement? U.S. courts continue to struggle with this issue. In order to establish trademark infringement, a brand owner must show an alleged infringer uses its trademarkwithout its consent in connection with advertising or selling goods or services in a manner that is likely to cause consumer confusion as to the source of the goods or services or the affiliation or association of the alleged infringer with the brand owner.2 Courts have struggled with two main issues: (1) whether unauthorized use of a trademark as a keyword constitutes trademark "use in commerce," and (2) whether such use creates a likelihood of confusion"

Yes US law, but web law is pretty internationalized

corporate.lexisnexis.com/news/marketing,branding/cat300001_doc1139455716.html

Sorry, don't have enough posts for live links. :redface:

 

[Searcher]

Quite interesting thoughts guys. I launched (big word) my first ever Adwords campaign (small campaign) yesterday ! I know it sounds stupid to you lot who've been doing this for yonks but it was really exciting to see my advert for the first time.

Spent a bit of time checking Googles t&c's and numerous other pages. Got bored and wasn't really able to find an answer to my question, so will tread carefully.

I think it's important to distinguish between Brands and generic words/names which might be closely associated with known brands.

 

[audreysolo]

I have never heared this before,now I know.Unless you are the agent,you cann't use the brand words to be google adwords.

 

[Deleted member 53208]

Interesting this one, does this not happen all of the time. By which I mean if you type quick fit, Silver Cross or something similar into google you seem to get sites other than the official ones?

I thought the rule was that as long as you didn't infringe copyright in your text you were OK ?

 

[directmarketingadvice]

Things change but the last time i dealt with this:

• You can bid on someone else's trademark
• Your competitor can request that only their ads can use the trademarks in the ad text - but they have to be proactive about this
• Your competitor can not stop you bidding on the trademark
• BUT Adwords will make you pay for the privilege sending their customer to a page that is not relevant to the search term

• 
  
  That's about right.
  
  However... item 4 isn't always the case.
  
  Here's why...
  
  Aside from the trademark company, all advertisers will have questionable relevance.
  
  And, because of the way the "adwords auction" works, you'll all be approximately equally disadvantaged.
  
  So, while it would be expensive to have your ad appear above the brand name company - who are very relevant and are able to use the keywords in their ad text - the other positions are up for grabs.
  
  Steve

 

[Ben_Chemistry]

Spent a bit of time checking Googles t&c's and numerous other pages. Got bored and wasn't really able to find an answer to my question, so will tread carefully.

Depends on your niche and your ad, but it can work for you - so why not test it out.

You only have to do a case study on competitive niches to see this in action.

I just tested gaming ("888" brand term) and dating ("eharmony" brand term) searches - the result was 25-50% of the paid ads for these terms are for competing products.

The bottom line is Google allows it. Legally, as long as you are being honest in your ad and not masquerading as the competitor, there is no problem in the real world, but I doubt even a lawyer could give you a black and white answer on that, so follow a rule of thumb as in the examples above.

Bear in mind you may find your competitor hitting your brand back, but if you are the little fish, you will get far more benefit, so who cares?!

So, while it would be expensive to have your ad appear above the brand name company - who are very relevant and are able to use the keywords in their ad text - the other positions are up for grabs.

Steve

Good point Steve, thanks for the input.

 

[omnivore]

Quite interesting thoughts guys. I launched (big word) my first ever Adwords campaign (small campaign) yesterday ! I know it sounds stupid to you lot who've been doing this for yonks but it was really exciting to see my advert for the first time.

Spent a bit of time checking Googles t&c's and numerous other pages. Got bored and wasn't really able to find an answer to my question, so will tread carefully.

I think it's important to distinguish between Brands and generic words/names which might be closely associated with known brands.

i would tread carefully
i would imagine that if the trademark you are bidding on is owned by a big advertiser or a very famous one at least then google with have no hesitation in ignoring it's own published t&c's or the `Law of the land` and bumping you (or even suspending your campaign) and they will NOT even discuss with you if they are right or wrong in doing so.
so my advice is don't do anything to anyone big or noisy that you would be annoyed by if it were done to you. Google invariably side with the big player if they squeak.

 

[Searcher]

This isn't anything to do with what I had in mind, but as an example :

If I was a self-employed boiler fitter it might be difficult to get noticed on Google. But, if one of the Keywords used was "British Gas Boilers" then I reckon my little company would be right up there with the BG advert.

Now, to anyone Googling for boilers, they wouldn't have a clue that they saw the advert because of my keyword. And at no stage in my advert or website would I mention British Gas, so I haven't abused their brand. Or have I ?