How did you learn about business?

[Ozzy]

Did you know what was expected of you before you started your first business, as in what your legal and financial requirements were, or like me did you learn on the fly?
If you learnt on the fly, how did you learn? Did someone teach you, such as friends and family?

In the Red Corner you have me, this stuff isn't taught in schools yet people can start a business at any age really. It's why these forums exists, so anyone with no experience or knowledge can come for help and guidance. You are legally allowed to register as Self-Employed at a younger age than you are legally allowed to be employed!
The downside to this is that there is a perceived grandeur in running your own business, and some people go into it with unrealistic expectations of their business idea and even themselves. More businesses fail than succeed, and when a business fails it can leave others picking up the pieces (debts).
On balance I feel the rewards outweigh the risks, and that the opportunity should be there for anyone with a desire to try to be able to do, because quite simply you don't learn this at school so the second best option is learn as you go along.

Then in the Blue Corner you have @Clinton

CH should do a test prior to letting anyone become a director.
A bit like the Life In The UK for immigrants.
And have a blanket ban on anyone becoming a director till they pass the test.
Recommended pass mark for the test = 100%

@Ozzy won't approve, of course. Where would UKBF be without people who know nothing about business coming here to complain because nobody told them they have to file annual accounts or pay Corporation Tax on profits, or read contracts before signing them?

Let's stop those who don't know the first thing about business from starting businesses

Now I know (at least I think) Clinton is being tongue in cheek here, and but the principle is the same. Should people not be allowed to start up in business until they pass a test or demonstrate they know and understand everything that running a business entails. What impact would this have on the economy? Would it improve the economy or constrict it?

Personally that means I would never have started my own business, these forums would have never existed, and I wouldn't be where I am now in life. The same would go for my daughter, she's 18 and has run her own business for almost 2 years self-employed because she was legally too young to be employed, so pretty much forced into being self-employed.

 

[MarkOnline]

I think that if you want to form or control a LTD company there should be some sort of test which shows you understand what your obligations and liabilities are. Same for directors and Ltd liability partners.

At the moment its an in vogue free for all.

 

[John Hemming]

I take the alternative view which is that the current approach where there is no need for a licence to run a business (ie there is no test) is best. People need to follow the law. If they don't then there are normally sanctions although I accept that there are some holes in the system.

In a sense I was lucky because my father had his own electrical contracting business and although I did not have much to do with it although I did a certain amount of work on rewiring etc and helped him on some jobs (much that my degree is in Atomic, Nuclear and Theoretical Physics) I still understood the idea of running a business.

However, I really don't think people generally should be licenced. The market is the best test. If you set up and provide goods or services that people are willing to buy then you can make a profit.

I actually set up as a sole trader first although I have had experience of most common corporate structures (Sole Trader, partnership, LLP, ltd, plc and listed).

 

[Ozzy]

I think that if you want to form or control a LTD company there should be some sort of test which shows you understand what your obligations and liabilities are. Same for directors and Ltd liability partners.

At the moment its an in vogue free for all.

I’m curious why you specifically say Ltd company, as personally I find the tax treatment and running of a Limited company much less confusing and straight forward than as a Sole Trader that (in my opinion) has muddy waters.

 

[The Byre]

Q1. I went to business school, after which I studied economics. My wife went to business school and then did a Business Studies degree.

Q2. In most EU countries, if you want to set up shop as a trade such as a hairdresser, builder, plumber, electrician, etc., you must be a master of that trade. This means first being an apprentice for three years and then working for a while, followed by about three years to get the masters' certificate. This involves learning about how to run a business and of course man management, bookkeeping and all that stuff.

Setting up as an import-export agent or a shopkeeper or similar business usually just involves doing an apprenticeship. Running a business at degree level skills such as an engineering office usually means having to complete a master's equivalency exam.

The free-for-all that exists in the UK does hinder trade. It means that my business partners that I do trade with do not read contracts and would not understand the implications of the contract if they did. It means that they may go out of business at a moment's notice and phoenix their company. Other side-effects are having to deal with people who fail to understand the law, cannot read a P&L sheet, cannot calculate percentages and even struggle with the simplest of things such as VAT returns.

OK, that's not all of them and as you go up the feeding chain, there can be some pretty sharp cookies out there - but even then, you still come across some right numpties!

 

[MarkOnline]

I’m curious why you specifically say Ltd company, as personally I find the tax treatment and running of a Limited company much less confusing and straight forward than as a Sole Trader that (in my opinion) has muddy waters.

Mainly because a LTD is in a better position to screw over other businesses and individuals. Sole traders have a debt which can follow them.

Look at spongebob, I can owe money all over the place I deserved the BMW I worked a Sunday once so Im a victim of the recession, covid my budgie died and the stress was unbearable. My creditors, well tough its just part of the game.

 

[UKSBD]

I had an idea whilst at work.

Played around with it for a bit then thought I need to see a solicitor for a half hour chat.

He told me I was better nipping over the road and seeing an accountant - cost £50

Nipped over the road, made an appointment for the next day, saw the accountant, explained Idea and said I want to start a business.

Hour later, he formed business with Myself and Wife as 50 - 50 share holders, me as Director, wife as Secretary - charged us £300 for forming the business.

Week later, went to see bank, they asked about business plan, I didn't have one but just told him what I want to do, bank account opened.

I didn't have a clue about anything

 

[Ozzy]

Mainly because a LTD is in a better position to screw over other businesses and individuals. Sole traders have a debt which can follow them.

Valid point, although there are two major types of fraudulent/unethical styles of traders in the UK. There are the Ltd company ones who keep sprouting Ltd companies up with loads of debt in their trails, and there are the "sole traders" who are not really registered being the types you see on Rogue Traders" who rip off your Nan and such likes.

Based on what you say, I'd feel the types in the scenarios you mention actually do understand the intricacies of business enough to know how to exploit them compared to the types who want to run a business properly, just don't understand tax and legislation "yet".

Other side-effects are having to deal with people who fail to understand the law, cannot read a P&L sheet, cannot calculate percentages and even struggle with the simplest of things such as VAT returns.

Could these types of educations realistically be part of a pre-startup test (percentages aside)? Personally I'd like to see this sort of thing taught in school, along with budgeting a mortgage and household bills, but it isn't in every school.

Most people start a company after having worked for someone for a while then think they can make a better job of it, before realising running a business is a lot more than delivering on the service. As business studies in secondary school is usually learning how to use Excel and Word, exceptions noted, I just feel learning on the job for the genuine people out there nothing quite beats it. The fear of not being able to make your next mortgage payment definitely focuses the mind.

 

[japancool]

I worked at management level for a number of years, where I picked up a lot just through osmosis. A lot of that was about how to build and run a successful business rather than the rules and regulations thereof.

The rest - Google, but it helps to know what you are looking for.

 

[Chris Ashdown]

I was lucky my town supported a business enterprise organisation where the manager was on a 4 year loan from a big 4 bank and the tutors were all current or recently retired business owners. They spent about 3-4 weeks evenings talking to you about the basics, helped you make a basic plan and cashflow plans etc so that after 4 weeks you could understand the basics and if your plan was feasible and if not why not.

I don't think its still running, but every town should have one and maybe Banks could make it compulsory for new inexperienced business people to attend if you want a business account, of course that will never happen

My bank also gave me a Financial Times book on running a small business, so useful I still have it

 

[Lucan Unlordly]

I was out of work and under very severe financial pressure.
A new fangled heat applied laser print t-shirt transfer had just come out and a caricature artist was featured in our local paper. I put two and two together, figured that if I could buy and print caricature shirts for £3 and sell them for £5 I'd make money so I had a go and dragged myself out of a hole. Clearly no concerns about my own time and other costs.

The ideas process (most people wouldn't have thought shirt caricature, caricature shirt - money) is reflective of what I've done, what I do now but to be honest, I don't think I've really learnt business at all, much of the stuff on here goes over my head or teaches me something I didn't know, and to a degree I still follow the principle that something sold for more than it was bought for is profitable, although these days am a lot smarter at doing so.

 

[Mr D]

I watched my parents try and run a business. And fail. Taught me that can have too little in sales to have a business you can live on.

I jumped in feet first many years ago and learnt quickly - from the internet, the library and from friends who owned businesses.
Initially self employed for first several businesses - these days have both self employed and limited company. Just have 3 businesses now, two of which I keep an eye on sales. The other I have to actually run - designed to be far more hands on.
Trade press, websites, webinars, seminars, talking to reps, talking to business owners, all can make a difference and still learning 20 odd years later. There may be some businesses that change little with the years, there are others that have to keep up with changes.

 

[Mr D]

Valid point, although there are two major types of fraudulent/unethical styles of traders in the UK. There are the Ltd company ones who keep sprouting Ltd companies up with loads of debt in their trails, and there are the "sole traders" who are not really registered being the types you see on Rogue Traders" who rip off your Nan and such likes.

Based on what you say, I'd feel the types in the scenarios you mention actually do understand the intricacies of business enough to know how to exploit them compared to the types who want to run a business properly, just don't understand tax and legislation "yet".


Could these types of educations realistically be part of a pre-startup test (percentages aside)? Personally I'd like to see this sort of thing taught in school, along with budgeting a mortgage and household bills, but it isn't in every school.

Most people start a company after having worked for someone for a while then think they can make a better job of it, before realising running a business is a lot more than delivering on the service. As business studies in secondary school is usually learning how to use Excel and Word, exceptions noted, I just feel learning on the job for the genuine people out there nothing quite beats it. The fear of not being able to make your next mortgage payment definitely focuses the mind.

My school taught me how to answer gameshow questions.
There was a push onnthe late 90s to introduce financial planning into school, at least for stuff like credit cards, loans etc.
I never did business studies, not an option. We did such useful skills like woodwork or shooting instead.

Saying that, had an apprentice in one profession I was in. Just graduated with a business degree, wet behind the ears, no concept of businesses outside the ivory tower.

Took months to teach him to write properly and months more to teach long term financial planning - the idea of a 5 year budget starting a couple of years time was beyond him to start with. He had been taught to just do next year budget based on this year budget. If you know longer term planning you know it's somewhat more involved.

 

[AllUpHere]

All you young 'uns with the internet to help you don't know you are born. When I started my first business I went to the library in town and actually took some books out.

When I did my employers NI calculations I had a big form to fill in that spread across the kitchen table. A proper piece of paper that i filled in with a pen. Now that was a spread sheet.

 

[Ozzy]

When I did my employers NI calculations I had a big form to fill in that spread across the kitchen table. A proper piece of paper that i filled in with a pen. Now that was a spread sheet.

Ha, my wife had a massive ledger book she used to complete at the end of each day with her shop's takings. Then at the end of the year give that ledger with the box of till rolls to the accountant to do the year end, them were the days.
Me, running a website company across the road from her, had this new fandangled "Sage" stuff I used to do my accounts. It was like rocket science, and it worked the VAT out without needing an abacas!

 

[Deleted member 335660]

Did you know what was expected of you before you started your first business, as in what your legal and financial requirements were, or like me did you learn on the fly?
If you learnt on the fly, how did you learn? Did someone teach you, such as friends and family?

In the Red Corner you have me, this stuff isn't taught in schools yet people can start a business at any age really. It's why these forums exists, so anyone with no experience or knowledge can come for help and guidance. You are legally allowed to register as Self-Employed at a younger age than you are legally allowed to be employed!
The downside to this is that there is a perceived grandeur in running your own business, and some people go into it with unrealistic expectations of their business idea and even themselves. More businesses fail than succeed, and when a business fails it can leave others picking up the pieces (debts).
On balance I feel the rewards outweigh the risks, and that the opportunity should be there for anyone with a desire to try to be able to do, because quite simply you don't learn this at school so the second best option is learn as you go along.

Then in the Blue Corner you have @Clinton

Now I know (at least I think) Clinton is being tongue in cheek here, and but the principle is the same. Should people not be allowed to start up in business until they pass a test or demonstrate they know and understand everything that running a business entails. What impact would this have on the economy? Would it improve the economy or constrict it?

Personally that means I would never have started my own business, these forums would have never existed, and I wouldn't be where I am now in life. The same would go for my daughter, she's 18 and has run her own business for almost 2 years self-employed because she was legally too young to be employed, so pretty much forced into being self-employed.

I gave a lift home to my RAF mates and they gave me petrol money. My Dad took me to Whitechapel Road and used the money to buy things I could sell to my mates back at base. That’s how I started.

Fifty years later I am helping my younger wife run her gift shop. In between I had two businesses of my own and ended up teaching entrepreneurship at University.

You can teach people as much about business as you like; it won’t make success any more guaranteed.

There are plenty of business courses, lots of books, videos etc.

It would seem to me that the law does not bring to justice some of the bad things directors do now, so not sure it could cope with all the vagaries of starting a business.

Many people find themselves in a situation where it is the best option or only option; few people actually plan it as a career or long term project where they could go and take qualification before.

 

[Mark T Jones]

I learned by my mistakes - which means that I now know everything.

In fact, for the first 18 months it actually was easy (no stocks, no manufacturing, no imports etc) - then the 1989 recession kicked it. And the real learning started!

I had a few friendly faces (in today's parlance, mentors) who gave advice freely - but like every business owner I was on my own when the sh!t hit the fan.

In truth, a qualification in Business Studies was slightly helpful, though it certainly doesn't teach you how to run a business.

I have run start up courses both for the Government NEA scheme and independently through local colleges

My personal view is that you can pick up good information, tip and advice when you are ready to do so, and if you have the right mindset - and actually turning up/paying would suggest a right mindset. you still have to do it to really understand.

I don't think schools can teach 'business' or 'entrepreneurship' (ugghh!) in any meaningful way.

Free resource like this forum can be great, but can also undermine the value of quality advice.

 

[Ozzy]

I don't think schools can teach 'business' or 'entrepreneurship' (ugghh!) in any meaningful way.

Reminds me of an interview I did for some students at a University where they were all doing some degree or another studying "Entrepreneurship", and I was asked can you teach Entrepreneurship. I said "No", and the lecturer physically squirmed in his seat as all the students were there to study to become Entrepreneurs.
I did expand and say, it's my opinion that you can study to be a good businessman/woman, but an Entrepreneur is made by their life experiences.

 

[Mark T Jones]

Reminds me of an interview I did for some students at a University where they were all doing some degree or another studying "Entrepreneurship", and I was asked can you teach Entrepreneurship. I said "No", and the lecturer physically squirmed in his seat as all the students were there to study to become Entrepreneurs.
I did expand and say, it's my opinion that you can study to be a good businessman/woman, but an Entrepreneur is made by their life experiences.

does open the whole discussion around entrepreneur vs business owner.

My personal take is that entrepreneur is a character trait or frame of mind - business owner is a decision.

However, I guess actually signing up and paying to learn does indiate a will to learn.

 

[Ozzy]

My personal take is that entrepreneur is a character trait or frame of mind - business owner is a decision.

That is close to my belief too. I feel the term Entrepreneur has been overused and become more of a marketing term than a definition, and it really grates me.
In a previous debate in a past life I used two Dragon's Den panelists to describe what I saw as the difference between Businessman and Entrepreneur. For me, Duncan Bannatyne is an Entrepreneur and Peter Jones is a good Businessman - my decision based on reading both their books.

 

[WaveJumper]

All you young 'uns with the internet to help you don't know you are born. When I started my first business I went to the library in town and actually took some books out.

When I did my employers NI calculations I had a big form to fill in that spread across the kitchen table. A proper piece of paper that i filled in with a pen. Now that was a spread sheet.

Blimey I remember those days I would struggle to know where the library actually is these days. Also adding up rows of sales figures at the end of the day ........ not a calculator in sight no tills either just a draw to put the money in

 

[Deleted member 59730]

I think far too much emphasis is put on thinking that a Ltd Co is a business. Register your Co and you are a business person. There is another thread about someone who registered everything except her Trademark. I think Trademark should be the priority and registering a business can come a few years later.

I have bee a sole trader all my career. For a huge bulk of it it was my name I was selling.

As for learning I started as an assistant to a photographer and learnt a lot from his clients, some of the top brand managers in the country.

My early experience of paper spreadsheets was just before decimalisation so I didn't waste money on a £sd calculator.

 

[AllUpHere]

Business can't be taught in schools in any meaningful way. And actually, it's for the best. No disrespect to teachers, but I don't want someone in a 30 or 40 grand a year job teaching my kids how to make money.
My business studies teacher was never my biggest fan, and wasn't a massive fan of my brother either. We take quite some satisfaction from the fact that we can earn about 15 times what he was being paid to teach us business.

 

[japancool]

Duncan Bannatyne is an Entrepreneur

There are a few other words I would use to describe Duncan Bannatyne.

 

[WaveJumper]

And the good business person never stops learning or adapting

 

[MBE2017]

Learnt on fly. Started selling cold drinks to cars waiting to get into Silverstone when we used to have really hot days, made more in a day as a young teenager than most guys were making in a month.

Progressed into markets, then retail, importing, B2C, B2B etc. Been self employed for 32 of my 40 years of working. Learnt about spreadsheets, made my own, tax, receipts, invoices, contracts etc.

If someone wants to be in business then it is down to them to learn what they need to know, and as importantly find out what they don’t know. If they cannot be bothered, they need to farm the job out.

It does explain approx 50% of the forum questions though.

I would like to see such things taught in schools etc, it would make maths etc a lot more interesting for the youngsters.

 

[Ozzy]

If someone wants to be in business then it is down to them to learn what they need to know, and as importantly find out what they don’t know. If they cannot be bothered, they need to farm the job out.

It does explain approx 50% of the forum questions though.

I'f I'm reading you correct then we're on the same page. In the old pre-internet days you'd ask around your local network and/or pub for advice from friends and family...maybe even go see an accountant or solicitor.
Now we are in the age of having the Internet a forum like this extends your circle beyond your friends and family, and connects you to a network of people possibly better qualified to answer those questions than your friends or family...and possibly pick up some business in the mean time.

 

[UKSBD]

Learnt on fly. Started selling cold drinks to cars waiting to get into Silverstone when we used to have really hot days, made more in a day as a young teenager than most guys were making in a month.

I lived in Stratford-upon-Avon
A mate and myself used to go to local supermarket, buy cans of coke for 17p walk down the river and sell them for 50p

Great until the people on the boats officially selling drinks and ice creams gave us a b*****

Another time there were some mates from school in a band.
They were playing a gig in a town about 10 miles away.
I hired a big 50+ seater coach, got tickets of the band half price and charged an extra £3 or £ 4 for the coach

 

[Paul Norman]

In the formative years of my career no one in our company was allowed to progress beyond a certain level before completing a management training programme. This covered topics such as finances, HR, marketing and management.

I learnt by attending those courses, and by working alongside some people I hugely respect who had big track records. I am grateful for that.

Now - to Ozzy's very fair question.

I come from this point. A company director has legal responsibilities. Running a business is subject to some laws. I am allowed to take on these roles, though, with zero awareness of even the fact that such responsibilities and laws exist.

I probably stop short of pre-testing. But only just. And at least some level of mandatory training - even if it is just to tell us the stuff we don't know!.

There are complexities, then, around the Ltd/sole trader thing. A massive separate conversation, I feel!

 

[Lucan Unlordly]

I would like to see such things taught in schools etc, it would make maths etc a lot more interesting for the youngsters.

I think it needs people like 'us' to go into schools to inspire the youngsters before filling their heads with economics, legal responsibilities etc.,
By 'us' I mean regular Joe's who can share the stories of how they started, as in this thread.

 

[Ozzy]

I think it needs people like 'us' to go into schools to inspire the youngsters before filling their heads with economics, legal responsibilities etc.,
By 'us' I mean regular Joe's who can share the stories of how they started, as in this thread.

The opportunity to do just that does exist, but not all schools sign up for it. They should.
I helped pilot a scheme called the Enterprise Adviser network several years back for the Government, which has now been run out nationally connecting schools to "business leaders" for developing employability skills and giving guidance on starting their own businesses too.
If you're genuinely interested in knowing about this, you can read about it here;
https://enterpriseadviser.careersandenterprise.co.uk/

The C&E Co is a government agency alongside the DfE, and the EA program is delivered via the LEP's around the country. Just realised how many acronyms I've used there;
Careers & Enterprise Company // Department for Education // Enterprise Adviser // Local Enterprise Partnership

 

[MBE2017]

The opportunity to do just that does exist, but not all schools sign up for it. They should.

I got invited back to my old school, a secondary grammar, to give a talk as an old boy, about things I wished I knew before leaving, what I wished I had been taught.

They never invited myself back after the first talk, which went along the lines of forget fair play, rules of cricket etc and learn it’s a dog eat dog world. The kids liked it but they seemed to find the talk a bit raucous for them, took them fifteen minutes to get me off the stage lol.

 

[The Byre]

I helped pilot a scheme called the Enterprise Adviser network several years back for the Government, which has now been run out nationally connecting schools to "business leaders" for developing employability skills and giving guidance on starting their own businesses too.
If you're genuinely interested in knowing about this, you can read about it here;
https://enterpriseadviser.careersandenterprise.co.uk/

Hey! They don't want you!

I volunteer as a mentor for school kids and the teachers do not want you. Not now - not ever!

They SAY they want outsiders to talk to the kids, but then as @MBE2017 points out, if you even do so much as approach the truth, they want you off the Zoom-call and out of the building!

Try telling a classroom full of kids (with their teacher looking on) that are all being trimmed and drilled to get A's and go to Uni that university is only of any use if you can get into a decent one and to avoid vocational degrees at all costs unless they are one of the handful of good ones that employers really look for!

Try telling a classroom full of kids where 25% are already morbidly obese and have a fat-as-F teacher that good health and healthy eating habits are waaaay more important than A-Levels!

Education today is a sausage factory in most schools. They want those statistics. X-number of university entrants. It matters NOTHING if that is to study Toad-Sexing at The Wysuckie College for the Totally Dumb. An obese clerk with a useless degree in Medieval Studies and a heart condition is better than a rich plumber on paper! An unemployed lawyer (of which there is no shortage) is far better than a brickie with 12 employees.

 

[Ozzy]

I volunteer as a mentor for school kids and the teachers do not want you. Not now - not ever!

I can give you examples of schools where that is absolutely spot on, and I can give you examples of schools where the opposite is true.
It's my hope that the changes that have just come into Ofsted's inspection framework, along with the attention on employer engagement and Gatsby benchmarks makes a difference. I don't believe we will see a revolution to the education system in our lifetimes sadly, but there are some good teachers and schools out there.

 

[Jeff FV]

. but there are some good teachers and schools out there.

There are an awful lot of good schools out there, there are an awful lot of good teachers out there, and there an awful lot of good youngsters out there.

But that doesn’t make good headlines.

Much easier to denigrate lazy teachers and ascribe all of societies ills to schools than to try and understand why they might be less then receptive to your overtures for help (of which those reasons are many, and often purely practical not ideological)

(and @Ozzy whist this reply is to you, it is not necessarily directed at you)

 

[Mr D]

The opportunity to do just that does exist, but not all schools sign up for it. They should.
I helped pilot a scheme called the Enterprise Adviser network several years back for the Government, which has now been run out nationally connecting schools to "business leaders" for developing employability skills and giving guidance on starting their own businesses too.
If you're genuinely interested in knowing about this, you can read about it here;
https://enterpriseadviser.careersandenterprise.co.uk/

The C&E Co is a government agency alongside the DfE, and the EA program is delivered via the LEP's around the country. Just realised how many acronyms I've used there;
Careers & Enterprise Company // Department for Education // Enterprise Adviser // Local Enterprise Partnership

Back in the late 80s my school had a business competition in teams and mentored by local businessmen - an after school club for the local kids. Most of us lived further away and no chance of being involved.

There was money involved, some kids made 50 quid (about 2 months paper round work) for a couple of dozen hours involvement. The winning team made a fair whack more, they got to share profits plus the prize.

That school was very big on kids going to uni. My entire 6th form year ended up going.

 

[MBE2017]

Unfortunately teachers work to a set curriculum, and often have very little say in subjects, approaches etc. As a Nation, we seem more interested in overloading our workers, teachers included.

My daughter as a NQT works approx 65/70 hr weeks, yes, they are warned it is hard, tough and wearing, but when a profession loses 25% of NQT’s in the first two years, something needs to change.

I am all for hard work from everyone, but that doesn’t mean working stupidly. Work should be hard but enjoyable, so at least people want to carry on next week, year etc.

 

[Mark T Jones]

The opportunity to do just that does exist, but not all schools sign up for it. They should.
I helped pilot a scheme called the Enterprise Adviser network several years back for the Government, which has now been run out nationally connecting schools to "business leaders" for developing employability skills and giving guidance on starting their own businesses too.
If you're genuinely interested in knowing about this, you can read about it here;
https://enterpriseadviser.careersandenterprise.co.uk/

The C&E Co is a government agency alongside the DfE, and the EA program is delivered via the LEP's around the country. Just realised how many acronyms I've used there;
Careers & Enterprise Company // Department for Education // Enterprise Adviser // Local Enterprise Partnership

I did a stint as Young Enterprise volunteer

And quickly realised that I would make a sh!t teacher

It might be a regional thing, but most of the openings in our area were in expensive private schools

 

[Jeff FV]

Unfortunately teachers work to a set curriculum, and often have very little say in subjects, approaches etc. As a Nation, we seem more interested in overloading our workers, teachers included.

My daughter as a NQT works approx 65/70 hr weeks, yes, they are warned it is hard, tough and wearing, but when a profession loses 25% of NQT’s in the first two years, something needs to change.

I am all for hard work from everyone, but that doesn’t mean working stupidly. Work should be hard but enjoyable, so at least people want to carry on next week, year etc.

This is very true.

(For clarity NQT = Newly Qualified Teacher. To become a teacher, one does a three year degree (BSc/BA etc) + one year PGCE - Post Graduate Certificate in Education, or a four year degree (BEd) that (effectively) includes the PGCE, then following this, their first year as a teacher (ie not in training) is as an NQT and there is a formal process they have to go through in this year to pass their NQT year and fully qualify as a teacher)

Yes, the holidays are long, but in term time it is tough. And there is no hiding place in a classroom full of 30 students. But after 25 years in the classroom I still love it (most of the time), although I shan't be encouraging my two children to follow in my footsteps. As @MBE2017 says, teachers have little scope to deviate from the curriculum and, often, how it is taught, but being a good practioner in a shortage subject does cut me some slack - educational fads come and go, I was delighted to note at an INSET session (regular teacher training that happens throughout the year) that I was back in fashion again - the way I teach is once again the proscribed way to teach.

Coming back onto topic, "business" and certainly "entrepreneurship" (whatever that may be) are best learnt by doing it, not in a classroom or university lecture hall, although I would hope that the more vocational courses where students are likely to end up as sole traders (hairdressing, plumbing etc) do spend a little time looking at the practicalities of being self-employed (I have no idea if this is the case as it is not my area of education.)

Although now defunct (I think) I did attend (3?) morning sessions run buy Business Link when my wife and I set up our business - these were very good and useful, but we learned far more by "just doing" and asking questions (often on here, but of other trusted sources as well). When starting, I often thought of the Donald Rumsfold quote - "there are known knowns, known unknowns and unknown unknowns" (I have probably misquoted that) - there were things I knew I didn't know, but I soon realised there was a whole load of things that I didn't even know I needed to know. I think this mindset served me well.

In addition, we are used to education being free (at least until 18) but most education is not. So I often think of a failed business venture not as money lost, but as an investment in one's education. To do a degree will cost thousands, buying a course from a provider will be hundreds or thousands, even buying a few books will cost you. Would - from a "business education" point of view - that money have been spent on setting up and running a business, even if you lose some or all of the money? You'll be better equipped next time - probably better equipped than someone who has spent the same time and money in a classroom/lecture hall (and I write as an educationalist , someone who highly values time in a classroom/lecture hall. Different things are suited to different ways of learning.)

 

[MarkOnline]

I finished my formal education at 16, through choice (If I had that choice again I would carry on)
I was fortunate I was educated at a good school where there were some exceptionally talented academics and was a feeder school for oxbridge udergraduates.
There was a big difference between education then as to how it seems to be now. Back then you could FAIL with a big fat F, today noones a failure. Teachers/schools are rated on the success of their students, Well the exam results speak for themselves, they do if you cant fail either. Complete a problem on triganometry and use forumlae to answer specific questions and show workings, Todays triganometry question is multi choice along the lines of how many sides has a triangle got followed by colour in a triangle in your favourite colour. The worlds gone mad.