Giving SEO a bad name

[Delicious Webdesign]

Had a meeting with new clients today and they decided to do a SEO project with us.

They previously had another company provide SEO services to them and it cost them £800 and their 'renewal SEO services' for this year were to be over £800. They also had their new hosting invoice with them for three domains for ... wait for it .........£320.

Unfortunately for them, they had already paid the hosting invoice and 2 of the 3 domains are 301 redirected to the 'main site' that has only 3 pages !

The most shocking thing is that I have just started our investigation / benchmarking report and have found the site isnt even indexed in Bing !

This follows on from previous clients that have been lied to / mislead about their search engine positions by their 'seo company' by using very unscrupulous but believable 'proof' that involved video / screen capture and the seo companies Local Google Account / web history.

 

[Coppock]

It sucks,
there needs to be some sort of SEO watchdog or accreditation out there.

 

[craigc0302]

Had a meeting with new clients today and they decided to do a SEO project with us.

They previously had another company provide SEO services to them and it cost them £800 and their 'renewal SEO services' for this year were to be over £800. They also had their new hosting invoice with them for three domains for ... wait for it .........£320.

Unfortunately for them, they had already paid the hosting invoice and 2 of the 3 domains are 301 redirected to the 'main site' that has only 3 pages !

The most shocking thing is that I have just started our investigation / benchmarking report and have found the site isnt even indexed in Bing !

This follows on from previous clients that have been lied to / mislead about their search engine positions by their 'seo company' by using very unscrupulous but believable 'proof' that involved video / screen capture and the seo companies Local Google Account / web history.

Theres a lot worse that that happening , im a freelance seo and i always seem to get jobs that these frauds mess up on , or dont do any work on and the charges etc are ridiculous !

Its just people taking full advantage of people who dont know any better !

Should be something done about the folk who do that !

Its always better to check references over the phone as screenshots and videos can be doctored to make an seo look good !

Good solid evidence like where a site is and a tel number to call that companys owner/manager is the very least that should be checked !

 

[Ranks]

It sucks,
there needs to be some sort of SEO watchdog or accreditation out there.

I think the business owners need to gain knowledge in this area. Watchdogs and Accreditation can work, but are usually expensive, untargeted and wrapped up in red tape. And find an industry which is accredited and their is no more 'dodgy' companies...finance is a great example

If the business owners learnt more about SEO and knew how to ask for it less would be caught out with over priced, under performing work being done on their business. You want to drive a car, you learn. You want your business online, you learn. I know looks its complicated, but thats what they want you to think isn't it
Jay

 

[Coppock]

And find an industry which is accredited and their is no more 'dodgy' companies...finance is a great example

If the business owners learnt more about SEO and knew how to ask for it less would be caught out with over priced, under performing work being done on their business. You want to drive a car, you learn. You want your business online, you learn. I know looks its complicated, but thats what they want you to think isn't it
Jay

Very good thinking

SEO is only as complicated as you make it.

 

[RedEvo]

I'm missing something I think. Are you saying £100 a year for hosting is expensive and are you saying £800 for a years SEO services is expensive?

cheers

d

 

[RedEvo]

It sucks,
there needs to be some sort of SEO watchdog or accreditation out there.

Good plan and let's start with SEO's who offer specific ranking position guarantees. Google already suggests people should be beware of them.

"Beware of SEOs that claim to guarantee rankings..."

d

 

Good plan and let's start with SEO's who offer specific ranking position guarantees. Google already suggests people should be beware of them.

Why's that,surely its better to find someone who can guarantee a position,rather than some bozo who says "I'll have a go mate"

Most astute SEO's know within a fairly narrow band what positions they can achieve taking into consideration all the relevant factors.

Anyone who disagree's needs more training.

Getting a specific ranking is a matter of maths very little else.

Earl

 

[Delicious Webdesign]

I'm missing something I think. Are you saying £100 a year for hosting is expensive and are you saying £800 for a years SEO services is expensive?

cheers

d

Yes £100 for hosting is expensive although we took over a company that charged £95 per domain but theres 3 domains and two are redirected and they were being charged £320 which is rip off britain territory for a static website.

The point of the post was mainly to demonstrate that 'after' a SEO campaign costing £800 (although if it was £80 or £8000 the point is unchanged) the website should at least be indexed in all three search engines.

I showed them one of our SEO check lists and on it we have this check as one of the basic checks.

 

[directmarketingadvice]

Why's that,surely its better to find someone who can guarantee a position,rather than some bozo who says "I'll have a go mate"

Finally, an SEO who understands what a guarantee is.

Steve

PS It's "I'll have a go mate and, even if I make a pig's ear of it, you'll have to pay me."

 

[RedEvo]

Yes £100 for hosting is expensive...

That depends on what's being hosted. Just because you can buy hosting for less than £100 doesn't mean it's the right thing to do neither does it mean it's expensive.

You can buy a brand new car for under £5k but I'm donald ducked if I'd buy one.

d

 

[RedEvo]

Why's that,surely its better to find someone who can guarantee a position,rather than some bozo who says "I'll have a go mate"

I'd never guarantee a position. I'd advise that it looked totally feasible, I'd advise that the competition shouldn't be a barrier, I'd advise on the likelihood of achieving a position but the ONLY thing I'd guarantee is to do everything needed such that in all probability the ranking would happen.

I wouldn't look someone in the eye and guarantee something in order to secure the work when there's a possibility that something outside my control could hinder the sites progress.

However, my main point was to point out that Google advises against using SEO's who make guarantees and by enlarge the SEO's who have gained the industry such a bad reputation are the ones who guarantee what they have very little likelihood of achieving.

Hey, it's just my humble opinion. You do it your way, I'll do it mine

d

 

I'd never guarantee a position. I'd advise that it looked totally feasible, I'd advise that the competition shouldn't be a barrier, I'd advise on the likelihood of achieving a position but the ONLY thing I'd guarantee is to do everything needed such that in all probability the ranking would happen.

I wouldn't look someone in the eye and guarantee something in order to secure the work when there's a possibility that something outside my control could hinder the sites progress.

However, my main point was to point out that Google advises against using SEO's who make guarantees and by enlarge the SEO's who have gained the industry such a bad reputation are the ones who guarantee what they have very little likelihood of achieving.

Hey, it's just my humble opinion. You do it your way, I'll do it mine

d

I'd never guarantee a position. I'd advise that it looked totally feasible, I'd advise that the competition shouldn't be a barrier, I'd advise on the likelihood of achieving.

Er thats not far off what I said I suspect.?

I will only take on a project where the product,the website and the business will succeed IMHO or I don't get paid.

Hence I maintain that an SEO can within reason determine the likely position of a website for a given keyword /phrase having done the required research.

Earl

 

[paretowasright]

Jenny seems to have this sussed and also agree with RedEvo's caution and honest approach to managing expectations. The big problem here is unrealistic expectations by clients and too many SEO snake oil salesmen promising the earth and delivering diddly squat. I had a look on Elance the other night for a small job I need doing and was staggered at the amount of jobs for $200-$500 wanting 'number 1 on google for 5 keywords within 4 weeks etc'....you then look and 30 Indian companies are all promising the earth on their bids.

 

[bdw]

It sucks,
there needs to be some sort of SEO watchdog or accreditation out there.

I totally agree but when I suggested this recently and complained about an a SEO company that was lying to gain business I was roundly condemned in this thread. It was even suggested quite seriously that people like these were what Britain required to get us out of the recession.

.

 

[directmarketingadvice]

there needs to be some sort of SEO watchdog or accreditation out there.

Why not let Google be the accreditors?

Every time you take on a new client, you have to log them with Google. Google then gets to monitor everything you're doing.

Great plan.

I suspect most of you would be out of business within a month.

Steve

 

Why not let Google be the accreditors?

I thought google already are.?

They have certainly been the judge of my work for many years.

Seems pretty simple to me to check out an SEO's work to me.?:|

So why all the techno babble.?

Earl

 

[awebapart.com]

Here are a few things for a business to consider if they are hassled by cold calling SEO companies offering guaranteed placings:

1. Firstly I do not think that the good SEO companies should be cold calling

2. Are the guaranteed rankings actually in the organic results, or are they paid adwords placements? Page 1 of google can mean different things so read the small print.

3. If the guaranteed rankings are in the organic results are they actually for pages on your site or for pages on a site owned by the SEO company?

Guaranteed rankings might sound compelling, but what's the catch? Here are a few possible catches...

4. Like a lot of guarantees, in most cases it is not a guarantee that the rankings will be achieved, it is a guarantee that something will happen when the rankings are not achieved, i.e. your money back. If the guarantee does not cover what happens for failure, then start asking serious questions about this.

5. Different search terms will require different amounts of work in order to rank, so expect high quotes for highly competitive terms. It might be guaranteed but it also might be expensive.

6. Money back guarantees might sound good, but how much money would the business be losing in real terms if the SEO company mess up or even get the business banned from google? If the SEO company is not successful in getting the site ranked, how much money would the business have made if they had gone for a better SEO company who were more successful?

7. Money back guarantees might sound generous but who is really being generous? The SEO company might not do anything, and end up getting a very nice interest free loan from your business for the period of the contract. Again check the smallprint of the contract, to identify milestones, visible real work done at early and regular stages, and if this isn't being done what is the get-out clause.

8. How do you know that what is being done is to your benefit and not to the benefit of other companies? You might not only end up giving away an interest free business loan to the SEO company, but also allow the SEO company to use your site to promote their SEO site or other client sites. You might even slip down the rankings

9. How do you know that your competitor isn't employing the SEO company to reduce your rankings? If that were the case, the SEO company would make promises like money back guarantees to get you on board. Even better than that, they might even offer to do it for free and get paid later when rankings are achieved, but all the time having a very different motive.

 

[omnivore]

Finally, an SEO who understands what a guarantee is.

Steve

PS It's "I'll have a go mate and, even if I make a pig's ear of it, you'll have to pay me."

reminds me of mr tourette (warning: some rude words)

http://image.guardian.co.uk/sys-images/Arts/Arts_/Pictures/2007/01/02/mrtourette460.jpg

 

[Annoying Donkey]

1. Firstly I do not think that the good SEO companies should be cold calling

Cold calling is a fact of life, especially for a new business. 'Build it and they will come' only works in hollywood movies...

 

[Delicious Webdesign]

Cold calling is a fact of life, especially for a new business. 'Build it and they will come' only works in hollywood movies...

Disagree with this Cold Calling is ineffectual, annoying and counter productive. Believe its an old fashioned and outdated marketing method and with the TPS you can negate this distraction. We get these calls but when you mention TPS and that you will be reporting the call they seem to say sorry and not phone back which is nice.

 

[Delicious Webdesign]

That depends on what's being hosted. Just because you can buy hosting for less than £100 doesn't mean it's the right thing to do neither does it mean it's expensive.

You can buy a brand new car for under £5k but I'm donald ducked if I'd buy one.

d

For static websites and websites that just 301 redirect with no email / database its expensive. They are using a budget hosting company so yes I consider these costs expensive.

To add insult to financial injury, they have now been asked to pay £40 +VAT for the transfer cost (.co.uk domain so simply to update the IPS tag) which again is taking advantage IMHO.

 

[Esk247]

they shouldn't be charged for transferring a domain, you should be allowed to change the IPSTAG in a control panel..as i have done for the last couple of years with my current hosts.

then again, these companies are everywhere, its worse than cowboy builders, as has been mentioned..if it were regulated..a lot of people would be out of work because they don't meet the standards set.

i don't necessarily mind those who make mistakes and don't charge (as i did once when i messed up a hosting package because i wasn't concentrating, customer didn't have to pay for a thing). but what i despise are those companies who charge even though they know the product/service won't work...fleecing!

 

[SEO Lady]

I showed them one of our SEO check lists and on it we have this check as one of the basic checks.

I absolutely agree.

Just taken over from an agency who has served my client for 2 and a half years, the website wasn't even validated on Google!!

The conversion rate for the site in general was shockingly low, the internal linking was like a "chicken on smack" had done it and there was little use of keywords on the main landing pages.

In 2 weeks I got the main keyword up from page 13 to page 3. Still a long way to go, but in my eyes that's a result worth demonstrating to the directors.

Off-topic - I used speech marks around that quote as they are not my words, and I think it's a funny saying. You know who you are.

 

[Delicious Webdesign]

We started doing the investigation and initial metrics on this site finally this week, bearing in mind that this company had previously employed a company do to their SEO, we have just found that all pages apart from 1 had the very 'non-seo friendly' code

<meta name="robots" content="noindex,nofollow" />

at the top of every page! didnt know whether to laugh or cry.

 

[Delicious Webdesign]

I looked at archive copies of the website and the noindex / nofollow command wasnt there and after talking to the website owner he thinks that the previous SEO company added this code when they quoted the years SEO cost and then they decided to look around, that would also explain why it was indexed in Google and Yahoo earlier this month and not now !

 

[-Joe-]

@the people saying that seos shouldn't guarantee positions, can't guarantee positions, etc.:

Firstly they can guarantee positions, I know plenty that do. Good SEOs who guarantee positions though, don't specify what for.

It's not particularly difficult to get on page 1 for the phrase "window cleaner hemel hempstead", but it's a bit more tricky getting on page 1 for "window cleaner".

SEO is a market filled with people offering their services, and, in the defence of people who guarantee ranks, you've got to do something to make yourself stand out. It's a business based on results, and if there's a customer new to the scene, what are they going to pick? The person who guarantees page 1, or the person who will probably get you to page 1, but there's no guarantee?

1. Firstly I do not think that the good SEO companies should be cold calling

Why not? Their business choice, doesn't affect how well they'll do the job.

Disagree with this Cold Calling is ineffectual, annoying and counter productive. Believe its an old fashioned and outdated marketing method and with the TPS you can negate this distraction. We get these calls but when you mention TPS and that you will be reporting the call they seem to say sorry and not phone back which is nice.

Then why is it still being done, with some callers earning six figures?

As to TPS, I've been doing some research into that recently, and as far as I can see, it's perfectly legal to cold call businesses if they advertise their number, as long as you're not harassing etc.

Don't quote me on that, I may be wrong, but I couldn't find any pages to suggest otherwise when I checked the other day.


P.S. as to regulation - terrible idea, imo. Most decent SEOs will have techniques that very few, if any, know about, and regulation would just mess these techniques up, leaking them out more, and getting google to patch them (whitehat techniques included). All means that the decent SEOs work isn't as good because of the actions of the rubbish ones.