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Shameful Ethics of SEO Companies (Can we report them?)

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bdw

This is about companies that are perfectly happy to tell lies to gain business doing SEO.

In this thread someone was asking how to check up on the performance of an SEO company. I contributed to this and by coincidence, while the thread was running I got an unsolicited email from a "Senior Search Consultant" with an outwardly respectable SEO company. This was relating to the SEO on a website that I own that is unconnected to my website design business.

To use his words, he said, "I struggled to find you in the first couple of pages of Google", and suggested that we were capable of "higher search engine performance". The website he was referring to sells software of a type that is universally recognised in the industry by a four letter acronym, lets call it "WXYZ". In Google we are in position one and two on a search for WXYZ software and in position two and three in a search for WXYZ alone. Only Wikipedia beats us here and SE ranking really just does not get any better,

This company are evidently lying through their teeth and deceiving people because they think they don't know any better. Are there any controls or regulatory bodies in place where deceptive practices like this can be reported?
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To be honest we get similar emails quite regularly. I would guess they are generic emails, which is why it didn't fit your sites profile. As to who you could complain to i'm not really sure to be honest we just delete them now without even giving them a second glance. Why anyone would sign up with one of these companies just from an email i don't know. Most of these emails also have no website link or anything just usually a request for you to reply with your domain name and they will get back to you with a report, which is further proof that they tend to just be generic emails they send to hundreds of sites at the same time.
 
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Actually it was not a simple generic email. It referred to my site by name. and quoted the correct PR and number of inbound links. Clearly the person who wrote it did actually look at my website. He also provided details of his own business and a link to their website.

To me that made it a much more serious and targeted attempt at deception than a standard spam email.
 
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Why do you consider this deception? I would imagine that there are quite a few potential customers who don't know they want wxyz for their business, but they might be researching on a more generic term where you don't show up...

Now if you did respond and he/she told you you should be ranking for a totally unrelated keyword or one that has no search volume, then maybe you have a valid complaint. Even then, it's caveat emptor...

I've personally never found this form of cold calling to be effective, even with far more specific information included... and I'm surprised a truly 'outwardly respectable company' would engage in it.
 
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I consider it deception because this website sells to a niche market. 99% of those who need it know that it is called WXYZ software. We also show up on many of the more generic terms too. Believe me, this website is worth a lot of money because of its high rankings.

My point is that I do SEO. I know what I am doing and I have been working on this website since November 2001. This guy does not know that because the site in question is not related to web design or SEO. He comes along and tells me a pack of lies to get my business. He is going to charge me for putting me where I already am? That should not be allowed.
 
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bdw said:
It referred to my site by name. and quoted the correct PR and number of inbound links. Clearly the person who wrote it did actually look at my website.
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A process like that could have been automated - shouldn't be too hard to scrape a website for its <title>, use a PR checker to find your PR, Yahoo Site Explorer for inbound links etc.



James
 
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James1980 said:
A process like that could have been automated - shouldn't be too hard to scrape a website for its <title>, use a PR checker to find your PR, Yahoo Site Explorer for inbound links etc.



James
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Its probably someone in a company asked to email as many people as possible to drum up business , and been shown what to put at the into of a site to make it look more personel ! And the person emailing is most likely no seo knowledge and just done it randomly. Thats my take on it. Might be wrong though !

Just aswell you know seo !
 
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James1980 said:
A process like that could have been automated - shouldn't be too hard to scrape a website for its <title>, use a PR checker to find your PR, Yahoo Site Explorer for inbound links etc.



James
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Exactly, all of that info is very easily scraped - enter it all into a database, mail merge, and hey presto, you have an email going out to 500k UK based prospects.

We have tools that we've built that can scape a lot more data - things like blog post frequency, geolocation, authority metrics, Twitter and Facebook accounts etc, but then we use it for the powers of good rather than evil ;)

The only control you can put on people contacting prospects in that way is hoping that business owners are clever anough to spot them.
 
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bdw said:
This is about companies that are perfectly happy to tell lies to gain business doing SEO.

In this thread someone was asking how to check up on the performance of an SEO company. I contributed to this and by coincidence, while the thread was running I got an unsolicited email from a "Senior Search Consultant" with an outwardly respectable SEO company. This was relating to the SEO on a website that I own that is unconnected to my website design business.

To use his words, he said, "I struggled to find you in the first couple of pages of Google", and suggested that we were capable of "higher search engine performance". The website he was referring to sells software of a type that is universally recognised in the industry by a four letter acronym, lets call it "WXYZ". In Google we are in position one and two on a search for WXYZ software and in position two and three in a search for WXYZ alone. Only Wikipedia beats us here and SE ranking really just does not get any better,

This company are evidently lying through their teeth and deceiving people because they think they don't know any better. Are there any controls or regulatory bodies in place where deceptive practices like this can be reported?
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I had a window cleaner call the other day who said "I thought I would call in because your windows could do with a clean".

My hands were still wet from having finished squeezing out the chamois; cheeky *******.

I can't see any major difference between the two situations; do you not think you may be overreacting.
 
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bdw said:
"I struggled to find you in the first couple of pages of Google"
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He struggled to find you because he isn't part of your target market and he isn't familiar with that particular website's niche. This speaks volumes for the importance of SEO's knowing the sectors that they are targeting. This goes for most other businesses AFAIK. It's much easier to sell to a sector that you know well.
 
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OK, let's agree that it was scraped. The issue remains the same. This company is trying to deceive and defraud people.

do you not think you may be overreacting.
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Do you mean over reacting to someone who is easily identifiable trying to defraud me? There is a website behind this with a domain name and a telephone number. The domain name was registered in February this year to another business. This other business has an address and a landline telephone number. The people behind this are very traceable.

Is it not the case that chosing to ignore criminal activity like this only encourages it to proliferate?
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He struggled to find you because he isn't part of your target market and he isn't familiar with that particular website's niche.
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Actually anyone doing SEO who has half a brain will realise that if something has an industry recognised four letter acronym "WXYZ" then this will be a very important search term for that website. The website in question even explains this so anyone looking at it would realise this very quickly.

Take for example SAP software, if you knew nothing else about SAP what would you suggest would be a highly prized keyword? It really is a no brainer.

Even if I search for the full four words represented by the acronym, we are in position two (behind Wikipedia). Almost any related search shows that we are by far the highest ranking website for this software in the UK and possibly the world. Believe me, there can be no mistake.
 
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I also believe that the name being used by the person who is doing this is fictitious. In other words he is also misrepresenting himself.

More research revealed this.

Has any crime been committed here or would I be better raising this in the Legal forum? I feel strongly about this because I do SEO myself and these are the people who drag ethical SEO down into the dirt.
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bdw, it's spam - ignore, bin, delete it!

Surely you don't report all the viagra emails as well? :)

More seriously, chances are you wouldn't get anywhere trying to chase this up. Heck, look at the claims management market - still sending out masses of automated cold calls, supposedly regulated by the Ministry of Justice - and not a single company has even substantiated a claim. It's an entire industry based on false promises and non-deliverables, and yet is supposedly properly regulated. Not a chance of chasing this up with SEO spam, unless you can legally prove otherwise, and that's a pointless battle to get caught up in IMO - your word vs theirs.
 
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Surely you don't report all the viagra emails as well?
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No, I don't but that is a completely different anilmal. What you are talking about is quite easily identifiable as spam and handled by my spam filter. This was not UBE (Unsolicited Bulk Email), it was a personalised email designed to deceive me into doing business with this easily traceable UK company.
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I calls almost every day from these idiots. the last one said my site did not hold a very strong position and he stumbled upon it by accident. I asked him what he had searched for he said "pest control leeds". Thats funny as I hold the top position for that and just about any other pest control related term in my area someone who is not as net savvi as me could have easily have been fleeced for £100 a month. They lie evey time they call saying im not on the first page that my site is not as high as it could be. I had one that said im not on the first page for the term pest control manchester....thats because i live in leeds $%&*^%!
 
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This is preposterous!!!

Somebody got in touch with you and as part of their shpeel said they couldn't find you on page one or two on Google. Meanwhile, it turns out you are actually enjoying a good ranking for your target keyphrase.

Ok. Now, the person who got in touch with you might not have been aware of your target keyphrase. Indeed, the person who got in touch was clearly touting for business and probably didn't do that much research into either you or the website in question. I take that on board completely and I can dig what you're saying.

But to call that illegal and then to come on here trying to get support for reporting this poor person is a joke! What a petty, bitter and negative reaction!

Instead of hanging about forums complaining why don't you get out in the market and try to get some work too? Maybe you can actually learn something from the person who emailed you.

Let me also say, I hope this person emails lots more people. I hope this person gets lots of business and I absolutely applaud this person for making the effort. I don't know where this person was from but if he or she is UK based then I say we need more people like that to get this economy of ours back in gear. Accusing someone of being a criminal is very serious and not to be taken lightly. I don't spam anyone but if anyone in here or elsewhere came on and called me a criminal in a public forum then they could expect a call from my lawyer.

With the deepest of respect to you, I think you should focus on what you're doing and forget about this person who has emailed you.
 
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Ok. Now, the person who got in touch with you might not have been aware of your target keyphrase.
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You have not been paying attention. I have already explained this away twice.

Let me also say, I hope this person emails lots more people. I hope this person gets lots of business and I absolutely applaud this person for making the effort. I don't know where this person was from but if he or she is UK based then I say we need more people like that to get this economy of ours back in gear.
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Actually I think this is "preposterous". :eek:

You are happy to be identified as someone who openly condones deception and lies as a sales technique? I must be missing something if these are the type of business people you see as role models.
 
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Fine but I am afraid that I did not appreciate your tirade. I don't expect to see people in here openly supporting liars and scammers. You do not know what is going on in the background here.
 
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It's somewhat ironic that in order to have sent the email, the sender probably found you on Google to begin with. But still.

I'd like to make the clarification here that the email appears to come from "Malcolm Wright" of "SEO Doctors". This is not to be confused with "Malcolm Wright" of Ampheon Limited, a UK company providing ethical, professional SEO services (i.e. me!).

If you do a scan around the web for Malcolm Wright and SEO, generally, you find me. So, the name does appear ficticious. But then, I get tens of emails a week from ficticious names - particularly Indian development and SEO companies using UK VoIP phone numbers. If you do call, your realise that "John Smith" (or probably "Malcolm Wright" of "SEO Doctors") doesn't sound particularly English and the line quality is terrible!
 
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You see not only is this guy using deception and telling lies but he also appears to be trying to pass himself off as someone else. Perhaps those who were critical of me for raising this issue should have another look and consider how they would have felt had he used your name?
 
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bdw,

I'm new to this forum so let me say first and foremost that I apologise if you feel in any way offended, threatened or attacked by anything I've said on this thread or indeed anywhere on this forum. Your integrity and your ability as an seo expert is not in doubt. So, I hope you'll take that on board and I think that's probably the most important thing that I want to stress at this time. So, I do hope we can disagree without being disagreeable.

Onwards...

I've had a close look at your initial posts on this thread and I must be missing something because I just don't get it. Maybe I'm totally getting the wrong end of the stick but here's what I think.

I do not think the person who emailed you is a spammer.
The reason why I do not think this person is a spammer is because you have told us that this person referred to your site by name and even told you the page rank of the site. So, it's not as if he or she is pushing some button and sending millions of emails. Clearly there has been some sort of effort made by a human being to check out your website.

I do not think the person who emailed you is a scam artist.
Now, you and I might not agree with the marketing strategy that this person is using. Perhaps we find the business model to be flawed or unpleasant. Never the less, this person (based on what I've read on this thread) does appear to have a legitimate business venture. For what it's worth, I do not like companies who clamp parked vehicles. It's a type of venture that I find repulsive. Never the less, regardless of how I feel about that type of business, it's still a legitimate business model. I have to accept that. By the same token I don't think you or I have the right to call the person who emailed you a scam artist. Sure, you can call this person annoying, unpleasant or even unethical. However, based on what I've read, I don't think any of us can rightfully call this person a scam artist.

I do not think the person who emailed you is breaking the law
Based on what I've read this person has not done anything illegal. Maybe I'm wrong about that. I'm not a lawyer. However, my speculation is that if this case made it to a court of law then it would be thrown out. The reason it would be thrown out is because the person is not spamming. The person has successfully demonstrated that a human being has checked out the website. Also, the person appears to have a legitimate business model.

If this person is attempting to pass off as someone else then that's a different story. If that was the case then you could probably go after this person with a good lawyer. However, I don't know any details about that and your initial posts didn't really give us much more information about that side of things.


So, that's pretty much where I stand on this.

Please let me say one other thing:

All of us get emails like that from time to time. Sometimes people approach my clients in precisely the manner that you have described and I must confess that I find it slightly irritating. However, when that sort of thing happens I don't think it's a positive response to come onto a public forum and to start calling people criminals and scam artists. Instead of focussing on what this person is doing I believe it would be more positive for you to focus on your own glorious path. I don't think you should let those emails annoy you. I think there's a million other wonderful things you could be focussing your precious time and energy on. That's all I'm trying to say here and I hope I can say that without rocking the boat. :)
 
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I cannot believe that you put your own name at risk by continuing to support this.

Clearly there has been some sort of effort made by a human being to check out your website.
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Never the less, regardless of how I feel about that type of business, it's still a legitimate business model.
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I will admit that even at my age I can be a bit naive at times. After all that has been said, are you honestly still publicly supporting lies and deception as a legit form of marketing or are you just trying to wind me up?
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bdw said:
I cannot believe that you put your own name at risk by continuing to support this.

...are you honestly still publicly supporting lies and deception as a legit form of marketing or are you just trying to wind me up?
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bdw,

With the deepest of respect, you have failed to convince me that this person has used lies and deception. Now, maybe there's some background to this story that I'm not aware of but I can only go on what I've read here on this thread. You've told us that the person said your website was not on the first two pages on Google. What the person said was, strictly speaking, correct:

Your website is not on the first couple of pages for "maintenance software".

Your website is not on the first couple of pages for "management software".

Your website is not on the first couple of pages for "flying spaghetti monster".

Sure, you might be perfectly happy with the phrase for which you are at the top. Indeed, the phrase for which you're at the top might be the single most fabulous and important keyphrase in the universe for whatever it is you're doing. Never the less, I see no evidence of this person lying, deceiving, passing off, spamming, scamming or breaking the law - all accusations which you've so lavishly dished out.

Now, you appear to be demanding that I make some kind of choice between supporting this persons actions or winding you up. Here is my considered response:

Marketing is not easy. I have more respect for the person who gets off his arse and tries to earn an honest living than I do for the person who hangs around forums whining and b1tching like a baby, because somebody sent them a marketing email. If everyone behaved the way you do when they receive a marketing message then the entire global economy would grind to a halt and we'd all probably be living in the dark ages. I don't use the kind of marketing techniques that the person you've described uses. However, I like to think that that person is out there somewhere right now refining his or her marketing strategy and moving ever closer towards a place of abundance, peace, love and happiness.

Does that answer your question?
 
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Your website is not on the first couple of pages for "maintenance software".
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Yes it is. It's on the first page.

Your website is not on the first couple of pages for "management software".
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Erm... that may be because I don't do management software?

Your website is not on the first couple of pages for "flying spaghetti monster".
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S**t! You're right - I need to work on that one.

Never the less, I see no evidence of this person lying, deceiving, passing off, spamming, scamming or breaking the law - all accusations which you've so lavishly dished out.
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No? Then clearly I am wasting my time trying to convince you. You just do not seem to be able to take on board what is happening here so best of luck to you and your marketing methods. I am afraid cannot say best of luck to your role model.
 
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I'm with BDW on this one.

This was a message to him.
What if it was to a client. He would have to spend an hour reassuring the client that the bull email he got was just a load of twaddle.:mad:
That waste valuable drinking time :mad:

Emails that tout for business i understand, even cold calls.
I hate it when people mix up facts with fiction and try to sell you spaghetti monsters that fly.
 
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Actually I did not mention previously that I did contact this guy via email on Tuesday. I put all the points that I have raised in here on the emailI. I wanted to give him a chance to respond. Not surprisingly, he did not do so.
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despite all the extra info, the email is still automated, they all need to use a simple crawler script to gather that data about your site and stick it in the email. We get those all the time. It's just a cheap attempt at gaining business and they send it out to millions every day. Just ignore it buddy :)
 
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Ignoring it is fine but these people are in the same business as you and I. They are the ones that give us a bad name.

I have about ten email addresses in use and I get bombarded with spam every day. Spambayes takes care of most of it and it does not take me long to sort out the rest. What made this one a bit different is that it is from an identifiable UK company with a contactable person (even though he appears to be using someone else's name).
 
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It gets worse

I certainly receive a healthy share of SEO spam, however my clients forward me the stuff they've received, asking if this is any good....lol

What do you do? I've gone from finding it annoying to simply ignoring it
 
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Sadly Gents there is little we can do about these silly companies, and people will always get sucked in. It does make me angry, however there really is little we can do about it :mad:

However it is damaging to our business :mad:

Maybe we should set up a SEO black list? Could be a good idea!
 
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