Do successful entrepreneurs have no class?

[Alex Bellinger]

If someone said to you that it was the English class system that made the UK less entrepreneurial than the US, what would you say to them?

This is the situation I was in when I interviewed Professor Zoltan Acs, a leading US authority on small business and entrepreneurship, on a recent edition of SmallBizPod. He argues that because there is no class system in the US, opportunity to run a business is equal for all.

What do you reckon: the proverbial sphericals or is there something in his argument?

Seem to be on a bit of a role with UK dot.com pioneers at the moment too. Shaa Wasmund founded Mykindaplace.com which was recently sold to Sky and believes that the internet is the way to inspire a whole new generation into business.

 

[leemason]

I have never understood this idea that the USA is a classless society. This is I believe something to do with the "Great American Dream" as Hollywood would have it. If you are borne to a good family with social position in Boston and go to an Ivy League University you a much more equal than a poor kid who is borne in a housing project.

As an Ivy League graduate you will be in a much better position to start you own business or work on Wall Street and make a mint. As a kid from the housing projects you will probably end up in the army, sent to Iraq, and come home to no prospects and no money.

The difference between the USA and the UK is that the Americans believe there own publicity. The British are much more sceptical!

 

[Alex Bellinger]

Absolutely agree with you Lee. I raised the issue about race and immigration.

 

[Afaia]

I agree that it's ridiculous to say that the US is a classless society.

Being an entrepreneur could be seen as a way of someone rising from one class to another, so the existence of a class system might be an advantage.

I do think there are difference between the US and UK that makes it easier for entrepreneurs there.

1) they don't consider it a problem if you fail at something - you just try again. In the UK failure is considered more shameful.

2) everyone likes to see people succeed. In the UK I think a lot of people actually like successful people to fall.

3) A lot of Brits are shy about putting themselves forward; they are too modest.

 

[Alex Bellinger]

Talking of attitudes to failure, I saw a fantastic recent quote from a well known US blogger called Steve Pavlina:

Fail your way forward. Recognize that Ready, fire, aim is superior to ready, aim, aim, aim. Straightforward trial and error produces better results than endless vacillating. If you're afraid to make decisions and act on them in the face of ambiguity and uncertainty, get a job. Failure's lessons are essential to success.

Everyone in business or thinking about starting a business in the UK, could do with remembering this. I love the way it turns what we fear into something so positive.

 

[Cornish Steve]

If someone said to you that it was the English class system that made the UK less entrepreneurial than the US, what would you say to them...because there is no class system in the US, opportunity to run a business is equal for all.

Having lived in both countries for over 20 years, I'd say that class is definitely a factor in Britain. Just look at who owns much of the land and that will become abundantly clear. Plus (and forgive me for saying this) I encounter more toffee-nosed snobs from Britain than from anywhere else; some people just have to look down on others. More important, though, is that entrepreneurism and individualism are not taught, encouraged, or applauded in Britain. The system (laws, regulations, banks, etc.) does little to help entrepreneurs.

The difference between the USA and the UK is that the Americans believe there own publicity.

I don't agree. There is a very real sense in the US that, no matter who you are or where you're from, you can follow and achieve your dreams. Perception is far more important than reality. For sure, those attending Ivy League schools have a better chance of success, just like those attending Oxford and Cambridge leave with valuable contacts; still, this is not at the expense of average Joe.

Also, US laws are very generous to entrepreneurs. You can try and fail and try and fail again without it preventing you from trying a third or a fourth time. I'd go so far as to say that experiencing failure is viewed as an important qualification. There are many laws on the books designed to help small business - and this makes a big difference too.

Don't get me wrong, though, because I do think that British entrepreneurism is stronger today than it's ever been. That's despite our laws, though, not necessarily because of them, and it's a credit to the British spirit. Just think what we could do if the system actually helped us!

 

[Cornish Steve]

I do think there are difference between the US and UK that makes it easier for entrepreneurs there.

1) they don't consider it a problem if you fail at something - you just try again. In the UK failure is considered more shameful.

2) everyone likes to see people succeed. In the UK I think a lot of people actually like successful people to fall.

3) A lot of Brits are shy about putting themselves forward; they are too modest.

I agree wholeheartedly.

 

[-TJ-]

I think being successful and making alot of money is still a bit of a taboo in Britain, and thats one of the major reasons we are less entreprenurial than the US. For instance, whenever there is something about a CEO in the papers they are called a "fat cat", and everyone is appalled at the city bonuses, no matter how well the individuals have performed or what great things they have achieved for there company. Also i think there is a long held belief that if someone is rich they had to screw alot of people over to get there. Im pretty sure the Americans have a more embrasing attitude towards success. Also American people tend to be more confident in themselves, which im sure helps alot.

 

[DuaneJackson]

If someone said to you that it was the English class system that made the UK less entrepreneurial than the US, what would you say to them?

I'd tell them they are talking utter b*ll*cks.

I think perhaps some people in the UK use their class as an excuse fr not doing some things - including starting businesses.

I was born in Newham, one of the poorest areas of London and I grew up in various government institutions (childrens homes, etc).

My business partner is a Lord and an advisor to the Queen and one of my good friends is the ex chairman of Boodles (a gentlemans club in London).

My point is, if you don't use your own background against yourself - neither do others.

 

[Cornish Steve]

Im pretty sure the Americans have a more embrasing attitude towards success.

America's class system is based on money, not heredity. Rightly or wrongly, the rich are usually equated with success and therefore largely admired.

 

[Rebecca]

I was born in the UK, but grew up in Australia, so see the UK from an outside's point of view, although it has been my home for 15 years. There are many people in the UK who believe they went to the 'wrong' school and therefore 'can't' do things - running their own business, for example. There are also those who believe they went to the 'right' school and therefore do run their own business - not always a wise choice. There also are many people in this country who dislike their lives, but seem to do little to change them - and if they want to change, are perhaps not encouraged to do so as much as they might be in another country - the US or Australia, for example.

Some of the most successful UK people in business seem to be those who grew up with something strong in their childhood: poverty, its effect on their family, lack of power - something that meant they were very motivated to be different - for example, Peter Jones and Liz Hurley.

We can sit by and say that this is all unfair ... or we can set up and run our businesses successfully.

 

[Stephen Berry]

Over the last 50 years 40% of worldwide patents have been filed by Brits. Our inability to utilise the appropriate strategies have meant that we have had great ideas but not brought them successfully to the market. Historically and traditionally we Brits are the innovators not the entrepreneurs.
and... for amusement ... an extract from a book in which I have considerable interest !

Of all the Europeans, the British are past masters of failing to apply the strategies of the cheetah. These strategies are not about innovation – not about having the idea or creating the new product. They are about getting first to the market. Having the idea is innovation, bringing it to the market successfully is entrepreneurship. Capitalising on the idea, being the entrepreneur, is the strategy of the cheetah. Previous British innovations and discoveries which have failed to achieve their potential include:

• Food canning – patented by Peter Durand in 1810 but he was hampered in maximising the potential of the invention as the can opener was not invented until 1858.
• Powered flight – not by the Wright brothers in 1903 at Kittyhawk, North Carolina but by John Stringfellow in Chard, Somerset in 1843. He achieved a flight of 10 yards but failed to capitalise on his innovation. Fellow Brit Percy Pilcher furthered this with a powered triplane in September 1899 but again failed to bring it to the market adequately as he regrettably died in a flying accident. He was gliding his ‘Hawk’ aeroplane on 30 September 1899 immediately before fitting the engine, when structural failure caused a catastrophic fall from which Pilcher died 2 days later.
• Pedal cycle – produced by Kirkpatrick MacMillan in 1839 but, as he failed to patent it, others pedalled into the market, into wealth and into history.
• The motor car – Karl Benz gets the credit for the invention in 1889, but Christopher Holtum was demonstrating his horseless carriage in Covent Garden, London in 1711.
• Photography – not Frenchman Louis Daguerre in 1838, but by Thomas Wedgewood and Humphrey Davey who published their ideas in 1802 but failed to take advantage and sprint into market development. Daguerre furthered their work.
• America – not Columbus in 1492, but Welsh prince Madog ab Owain Gwynedd in 1170. The memorial tablet at Mobile Bay, Alabama records the discovery. Regrettably his descendents failed to diversify throughout the country, remained in their fort based settlements and were wiped out by smallpox in 1837. Had they moved from cheetah to other strategies as recommended, the history of America may have been very different and the official language may have been Welsh!

 

[Cornish Steve]

• America - not Columbus in 1492, but Welsh prince Madog ab Owain Gwynedd in 1170. The memorial tablet at Mobile Bay, Alabama records the discovery. Regrettably his descendents failed to diversify throughout the country, remained in their fort based settlements and were wiped out by smallpox in 1837. Had they moved from cheetah to other strategies as recommended, the history of America may have been very different and the official language may have been Welsh!

I've heard it said that native American languages bear quite a resemblance to Welsh. Also, Welsh is spoken in settlements across Patagonia (in Argentina).

Still, the Cornish have now arrived and proliferated on American soil, so we'll soon change things. Columbus, eat your heart out!

 

[darren atkinson]

My 2 cents (maybe that should be pence )

I can't really comment on people from America or other countries as I have no real experience of their attitudes towards entrepreneurship.

I find many people who I speak to from similar walks of life to me seem to have the attitude that running their own business is something 'other' people do, not them.

It's the old 'ill never win the lottery, that happens to other people', the really sad thing is, is that this attitude rubs off on their kids.

I don't live, or come from a particularly poor area, but it isn't 'upper class' either, I would say that it is probably the average class across the UK.

Darren

 

[Alex Bellinger]

Interesting comments from lots of people here. Just picking up on what Darren said about how attitudes influence generations.

I'm pretty much middle class as is my wife. And living in the South East to boot. So not rich, but comfortable backgrounds. And in fact exactly the kind of background which traditionally doesn't lend itself to venturing into entrepreneurship. We're supposed to train to be solicitors or accountants or civil servants or investment bankers or something.

In fact I run my own business and my wife runs her own business. Arguably quite unusual - but as I've said further back, I still believe class is largely disappearing as an issue.

The motivation, desire and can-do attitude or otherwise of Brits when it comes to entrepreneurship and many other things I think's still the nub of the issue. And in many cases still something that bemuses me.

 

[Mark Nagurski]

Having grown up through the American school system until age 14 when I returned to N. Ireland, my personal opinion would be that it's more an issue of confidence.

Whether true or not, every school kid in the US grows up believing they can become President or make a million so long as you work hard enough. You're also encouraged to put yourself forward at every opportunity - join clubs, do sports etc...

I think by simply believing that American society is more equal makes Americans less deferencial and more likely to become entrepreneurial.

 

[adam]

Alex

Good to see your posts becoming a little bit more of a discussion point. I would welcome posts like this

I am not sure class really comes in to it. I see class a lot more as a state of mind than who has money. If you can find a business (and they do say where there's muck there's brass) then I don't think class comes in to it.

 

[Cornish Steve]

I'd like to address the sensitive issue of class head-on - again. I hope no-one will be offended by my observations.

I've travelled the world on business, and I meet all kinds of people. The British I meet overseas tend to fall into two camps: very pleasant and understanding of local culture, or arrogant and superior in the extreme. It really galls me to come across the latter.

I remember arriving late at a hotel in Oslo years ago. The hotel was full, and the desk clerk (a young lady) was doing her best to convert some conference rooms into bedrooms. Yes, it was after 1am, but she was most apologetic and asking for a little patience. Checking in after me was one of those arrogant types. "I'm not just another guest, I'm Sir Somebody." "I golf with the owner of this chain and I'll have you fired." I was so embarrassed and tried to hide my British accent.

On the other hand, some of the most selfless people I've ever met are also British working overseas. I remember in both Haiti and Guyana young people, probably not long after finishing university, working with the poorest of the poor and not caring at all about the filth and stench and danger around them. At moments like that, I feel so selfish - visiting these countries trying to win business instead of giving something of myself to help.

Now, how much of this relates to class and how much is personality? Sorry, but I do think that some attitudes are in-bred and the result of our history and class system. Maybe the effects are diminishing over time, but the remnants of the system are still there.

On another note, much more than 50 percent of Cornwall is owned by people who don't live there - mostly nobility such as the Duke of Cornwall (i.e., Prince Charles). Some are good to their tenants; some couldn't care a hoot about them; all derive their income from locals who are not well off. Until the issue of land ownership is addressed, the class system will remain with us.

 

[Alex Bellinger]

I think it's a complicated issue the defies generalisation. In the same way that politics has moved more and more to the centre ground in recent years, so have we all moved more and more to the middle i.e. class distinction is becoming irrelevant.

Having worked for a time in the City I don't think you can generalise about class and arrogance. Some of the most unbelievably arrogant and obnoxious people I've met have been City Essex boys done good. Some of the most self-effacing and gentle people I've ever met have been City aristocrats.

I'm sure the opposite is true too

People, huh. So hard to get your head around.

P.S. See, Adam, I'm happy to take on board constructive criticism

 

[mike.young467]

I think it's a complicated issue the defies generalisation. In the same way that politics has moved more and more to the centre ground in recent years, so have we all moved more and more to the middle i.e. class distinction is becoming irrelevant.
I would agree with that.
i think there is also an element of, more and more people become more comfortable in there lives at an earlier age, so with the good old British fear of failure in the background, they dont want to risk losing what they have. Those with little to lose tend to take the biggest risks, and normally reap the biggest rewards.
I dont think it's about class now, it's about how comfortable people are. More people who are more comfortable, the less people taking risks. it contributes to the loss of the survival instinct that gives a country, and it's people the edge.

 

[darren atkinson]

i think there is also an element of, more and more people become more comfortable in there lives at an earlier age, so with the good old British fear of failure in the background, they dont want to risk losing what they have. Those with little to lose tend to take the biggest risks, and normally reap the biggest rewards.
I dont think it's about class now, it's about how comfortable people are. More people who are more comfortable, the less people taking risks. it contributes to the loss of the survival instinct that gives a country, and it's people the edge.

I agree with you, that is a very good point.

I have read a few autobiographies on famous / successful entrepreneurs and the majority of them are people who start with very little, or find themselves without too much to lose (In terms of property and possessions).

This is something which I struggle with to be honest. By the age of 22 I had bought then sold my first house and bought something better, I have a nice car, and am now married with a pregnant wife at 26. In one sense it drives me on to do better, but on the other hand I do have relatively quite a bit to lose if I were to take a big gamble.

Good point mate.

Darren

 

[adam]

P.S. See, Adam, I'm happy to take on board constructive criticism

Yep and quite a good weekly discussion seems to follow!

I look forward to next week.