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Do people usually pay upfront for services?

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BenConway00

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Jun 6, 2013
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London
Hi there, I started up my company and wanted to know if my flaw was the fact I was asking for upfront payment on advertising services.
Please post your advice.
Many thanks
 
BenConway00 said:
Hi there, I started up my company and wanted to know if my flaw was the fact I was asking for upfront payment on advertising services.
Please post your advice.
Many thanks
Click to expand...

What's standard for your profession/service when it comes to payment?

By flaw, I presume you mean that you're not getting customers, it could be any number of issues - credibility, not providing your customers with a product/service that they want, competitors who are providing a service that your potential customers perceive to be better value, not communicating your benefits clearly, not targeting your customers effectively through the right communications channels etc
 
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ethical PR said:
What's standard for your profession/service when it comes to payment?

By flaw, I presume you mean that you're not getting customers, it could be any number of issues - credibility, not providing your customers with a product/service that they want, competitors who are providing a service that your potential customers perceive to be better value, not communicating your benefits clearly, not targeting your customers effectively through the right communications channels etc
Click to expand...

I have no competition whats so ever. I am getting a bit of interest but I really want to be boosting the numbers. So far I have only advertised on here. I'm setting an advertising campaign to try and really boost the numbers
 
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Hmm...no competition and yet you're in advertising???

We pay on 30 days credit with our advertising agencies and thats for space in national papers.

Looking at your site I think you are WAY overpriced, 250 fliers, some business cards and a small ad in a local paper for £400?????

How are you planning to do "area research" to determine where to advertise? If I came to you with one of my businesses I think it would take you more than a few weeks to even grasp the business, let alone know what region is best to advertise.
 
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smo said:
...
Looking at your site I think you are WAY overpriced, 250 fliers, some business cards and a small ad in a local paper for £400????? ...
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I concur.

250 flyers - value £5/£10
500 business cards - £1 for rubbish to £20 for 400gsm matt laminated
Advert design - £50 perhaps. More like £30 and perhaps free with a newspaper advert
Small local newspaper advert - £30/£50

Hard to see value past £100 here and that is top end. £400 is frankly ludicrous.
 
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BenConway00 said:
I have no competition whats so ever. I am getting a bit of interest but I really want to be boosting the numbers. So far I have only advertised on here. I'm setting an advertising campaign to try and really boost the numbers
Click to expand...

Every business has competition to say you have none shows a worrying lack of understanding of running a business. You actually work in one of the most crowded market places with plenty of competition.

Your website doesn't have full contact details (a legal requirement) which will mean you lack credibility. Why would anyone hand over money in advance to a new company with only an email as contact details?
 
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Moving beyond the obviously silly 'no competition' bit - why would anyone want to deal with you?

I calculated the other day at a networking even that 80% of the attendees were in some form or another after a slice of my marketing budget. Each of them was sincere & legit but if I took them all up on their offers, I would be bankrupt in no time.

Moving forward, you really need to define your market & your offering (your opening statement itself shows lack of focus)

It is all bout them - not about you.

And put your bl@@dy business details on your website!
 
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Asking for money up front is very uncommon in business to business dealings which this is as it is advertising. All it does is sends out the messsage to your fellow business person that you want business from, that you do not have much capital for cashflow or that you are in financial difficulties. I am surprised that you get any customers agreeing to such terms frankly.
 
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I don't ask for any payment upfront for my services. I do think it has negatives and positives.

Negatives:

- Clients may not trust you will deliver on time since they're not paying anything upfront.

Positives:

- Risk free for the client

I'm still unsure whether I am doing the right thing though...
 
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Hi there, please see my revised prices, I also use premium glossy business cards (280 g/m2) and for the flyers i use 135 g/m² paper with aqueous coating. These features make the adverts more eye catching and luxurious. The reason I would ask for upfront payment is that with my previous experience doing advertising people find it easy to say they don't like something after I have proofed and printed, resulting in either NO payment or much reduced payment. I decided to keep with my decision and when I say I have no competition, I mean I have no-one who does something the same. Obviously being in the advertising industry there is plenty of competition. Thanks for the replies. I have considered all your points :)
 
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BenConway00 said:
Hi there, please see my revised prices, I also use premium glossy business cards (280 g/m2) and for the flyers i use 135 g/m² paper with aqueous coating. These features make the adverts more eye catching and luxurious. The reason I would ask for upfront payment is that with my previous experience doing advertising people find it easy to say they don't like something after I have proofed and printed, resulting in either NO payment or much reduced payment. I decided to keep with my decision and when I say I have no competition, I mean I have no-one who does something the same. Obviously being in the advertising industry there is plenty of competition. Thanks for the replies. I have considered all your points :)
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Your premium business card and flyer stuff doesnt really hold water - its still cheap as chips.

As for proofing and payment, get a signed off proof before proceeding which is binding to their approval.

A deposit is ok, but I wouldnt go overboard with money up front on this kind of thing, i'd be very dubious (and still am) about your "research", I'd want to know exactly what you do to get your results.

On that point, why are you not using your "Strategic advertising to kick start your company!" to get out there and be the biggest, best know agency of its type??
 
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Unfortunately after my previous company, I am unable to pay much into advertising. I find the forum has brought me a few customers but as soon as I have enough to launch a proper campaign, I WILL. How much would you say I should be paying for business cards and flyers which are designed by a company? If anyone has a company that can offer cheap printing please feel free to contact me!
Thanks again for all your replies.
 
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And on the area research, I have decided to scrap that as it is a mistake waiting to happen. There are plenty of problems with it and I don't want to risk loosing out on this business!
 
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1. Glossy business cards at 280gsm. I would never consider business cards at that thickness, it's hardly card at all. 350gsm should be the absolute minimum and ideally 400gsm.

What do you consider to be "premium" about the business cards? And what will you do with the cards? hand them out? Forward them to the client?

2. Flyers at 135gsm. That is cheap take away food menu type paper. The kind of paper so thin it easily and readily rips as you put it through the letterbox.

What will you be doing with the flyers? distributing them door to door? Forwarding them to the client?

3. I think half payment upfront and half on completion would be acceptable to many businesses. My experience of local newspapers and local magazines is that they all require payment upfront for an advert or if not upfront then full payment upon proof approval, i.e. BEFORE it goes to print. And certainly printers require full payment upfront.

I personally wouldn't be sending anything to print anything until I had received full payment.


4. Why aren't your business details on your website? Do you have something to hide? Are you a lying scammer? Are you living at home with your parents and don't want this to be known? Do you reside in a foreign country? Do you expect to produce sub standard work and don't want disgruntled clients to track you down? Are you in jail? And so on...

Very dodgy. I'd never do business with a firm that had no postal address and phone number.


BenConway00 said:
Hi there, please see my revised prices, I also use premium glossy business cards (280 g/m2) and for the flyers i use 135 g/m² paper with aqueous coating. These features make the adverts more eye catching and luxurious. The reason I would ask for upfront payment is that with my previous experience doing advertising people find it easy to say they don't like something after I have proofed and printed, resulting in either NO payment or much reduced payment. I decided to keep with my decision and when I say I have no competition, I mean I have no-one who does something the same. Obviously being in the advertising industry there is plenty of competition. Thanks for the replies. I have considered all your points :)
Click to expand...
 
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Hi there, so my supplier of business cards and flyers is not very good? If you read our t's and c's it has my address on but as you said i will be putting my number on! I am a bit reserved about putting my address online as anyone could see it and I don't feel there is a need to put it on...
What are your views?
 
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I am also slightly worried about having my number up as my voice sounds quite high! But i have put it up, do you have any advice on how to get over this issue?
Thanks
 
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BenConway00 said:
I am a bit reserved about putting my address online as anyone could see it
Click to expand...

Yes, that's the point!



BenConway00 said:
Hi there, so my supplier of business cards and flyers is not very good?
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I don't know who your supplier is, but I'd say it's not the supplier but rather the specifications that YOU are choosing.

1. Why have you chosen those specifications? What do you consider to be premium about them? Do you believe them to be industry standard?

2. And what will you be doing with the flyers that you produce? Door to door distribution? Or just forwarding them to the client?
 
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I will be sending everything to the client. I am using quite a popular printing company as it seems to be the easiest to work with. I call them premium as that's what they are called on the website (i'm going to take that part down). I'm not sure if you have got a good printing company in mind? I can't customize the specifications.
Thanks
 
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Do you mean to say that the only business card option available to you is 280gsm?

And the only flyer option is 135gsm?

They do absolutely no other types of business cards or flyers? No other specifications?

I would be very surprised if that were the case, and I'd bet money that it isn't.

The impression I have gotten from you is that you are young and lack certain skills/knowledge. Good on you for "setting up" a business but I don't think you know very well what you're doing.

In any case, I wish you luck.



BenConway00 said:
I will be sending everything to the client. I am using quite a popular printing company as it seems to be the easiest to work with. I call them premium as that's what they are called on the website (i'm going to take that part down). I'm not sure if you have got a good printing company in mind? I can't customize the specifications.
Thanks
Click to expand...
 
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Hi there, just done LOADS more research and found that I can do 450gsm business cards and 350gsm flyers! At a lower cost than the ones before :) Do you think 450gsm is just too much and do you think gloss is better than matte?
Thanks
 
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BenConway00 said:
Hi there, just done LOADS more research and found that I can do 450gsm business cards and 350gsm flyers! At a lower cost than the ones before :) Do you think 450gsm is just too much and do you think gloss is better than matte?
Thanks
Click to expand...

Sorry, just realised i can only get 450gsm but it still works out cheaper than buying 180gsm and i get more cards with the 450 gsm and it still works out cheaper.
Last place was a rip off
 
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I would say 450gsm is too high. 300-400 is fine. Personally I like matt cards over gloss so I use silk board with matt lam, but its personal choice and depends on the artwork and application.

350gsm flier?? If its for door-door drops then its too heavy. A card flier is a waste. If its a nice folded gloss laminated brochure then 350gsm is right but not for a flier!

I hoep your "popular" printing company isnt vista print - they quality is awful.
 
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Depends what you're doing with them. For a door drop 135gsm is ok, 170 would be better. Any more is a waste.

If its targetted mailing then higher gsm nicely finished etc. would be received better than low qual cheap ones.

If you've removed the targeted research what exactly are you offering, some fliers and business cards???
 
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I know this sounds stupid but why is it bad to have heavy business cards, I would personally say it seems a bit more professional?
What are your views?
 
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Ben

Why are you trying to develop a business service which it appears you don't know too much about?

For example how to commission and understand print, what process you should use regarding payment, not knowing it's a legal requirement to have your address on the website, not knowing how to market 'your business' and not having done your research in terms of competition and how to differentiate your service.

You also included research in your package without fully understanding the implications about what that would mean for you or prospective clients.

Have you any previous experience of any aspect of the service you will be providing? What sort of previous business/work experience do you have?

It appears that you might be better either starting up a business that you have some experience in and getting yourself on a course/reading up on how to run your own business and what that involves.

If you're under 30 why not visit The Prince's Trust site and find out more about support that's available. If you're not working you can apply to do one of their free business courses.
 
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I'm just looking for suggestions, like market research! I have my address on my website in the terms and conditions area. I do know how to market my business but like most people I dont want to spend money on a business that has just been started up! If you were starting a business I think you would want it to work, that is the reason I'm asking all these questions!
 
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BenConway00 said:
I'm just looking for suggestions, like market research! I have my address on my website in the terms and conditions area. I do know how to market my business but like most people I dont want to spend money on a business that has just been started up! If you were starting a business I think you would want it to work, that is the reason I'm asking all these questions!
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Ben when I started my business I had substantial experience of what it involved, I carried out my research, developed a business plan, developed a marketing plan I could fund (not all marketing is expensive or has a cost), went on a business course, joined business networking organisations and talked to other people who had their own business. I understood how to commission the suppliers I would be working with and how to set up business systems and processes.

I didn't set up a business I didn't know anything about. If you wanted your business to work you would have set about it properly.

I appreciate not everyone is going to have substantial experience before setting up their own business and everyone starts up on different levels and scales, however why try to set up a business you no nothing about having done little research or planning.
 
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Without trying, you will never gain experience and never gain knowledge beyond what is available on google. I have done lots of research. All of this thread included. I have done advertising for plenty of other companies before this. I set the business up when I had a problem with a previous business.
 
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Hi Ben,

I think what is meant its the niche you are choosing. You want to sell business cards for example but don't know about business cards.

A good example is me starting a building company when I don't know anything about building.
 
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I send out thousands of flyers in various forms from 170gsm to 400gsm but also in different forms, from straightforward A5 to DL, tri-fold DL, folded DL x2, etc. and the material isn't always cheap gloss but sometimes recycled paper, UV etc.

For instance, if you are sending out a price list which you want people to keep, it won't work well on 130/170gsm. Far better to go to DL and from 250gsm to 350gsm. That way it is felt of as quality and hard enough not to bend and rip, ideal for sticking on the fridge.

If you are giving away money off coupons, then cheap 170gsm (I don'd go down to 130gsm) will do because it is not the form of the advert which is important but rather the content, the money off voucher.

What I do is collect all the flyers which come to my house and grade them into good, bad and ugly ! Then I get my proposed adverts out and see where I and others feel they sit in that context.
 
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