Convert empty office space to wards for bed blockers

[Chris Ashdown]

Many towns and cities have large empty office spaces, so why not convert some into wards for bed blockers

Cheap to fit extra toilets washrooms etc and say 6-8 separate areas for the patients, all manned by a mixture of medical and social workers hired for the job. minimal medical staff needed

I would guess about 1500-3000 sq ft would do

Its a long term solution as it looks like there will always be a need of some sort and far cheaper than hotels or bed blocking

 

[Newchodge]

Many towns and cities have large empty office spaces, so why not convert some into wards for bed blockers

Cheap to fit extra toilets washrooms etc and say 6-8 separate areas for the patients, all manned by a mixture of medical and social workers hired for the job. minimal medical staff needed

I would guess about 1500-3000 sq ft would do

Its a long term solution as it looks like there will always be a need of some sort and far cheaper than hotels or bed blocking

A bit like the nightingale hospitals that were put up in weeks during the pandemic. And never used.

It is not physical beds that are lacking. It is the staff to care for the occupants (which was the problem with nightingales).

 

[japancool]

Many towns and cities have large empty office spaces, so why not convert some into wards for bed blockers

Many aren't suitable for people who need care. For example, many aren't accessible, and don't have lifts large enough for hospital trolleys (e.g. if a patient deteriorates and has to be taken in hospital).

 

[WaveJumper]

Apparently there are 400 hotels currently being used for asylum seekers and anther 200 have been put on standby. I bet there's quite a few UK residents who could make use of a warm room and a nice meal these days let alone using them to empty out a few hospital wards, but hay don't worry the government have all under control

 

[Chris Ashdown]

A bit like the nightingale hospitals that were put up in weeks during the pandemic. And never used.

It is not physical beds that are lacking. It is the staff to care for the occupants (which was the problem with nightingales).

Not quite right its the bed blocking that causes problems for the sick. As i said the problem with old age will never go away, they can no doubt recruit staff to care for the elderly in this type of place far cheaper that nurses pay, and only require a small amount of nursing care to assist

The only way the Hospitals can treat more patients is to free the beds up so they are available for those who need them

If necessary set up a new organisation to staff them, still would be a cheaper option than at present

 

[Newchodge]

they can no doubt recruit staff to care for the elderly in this type of place far cheaper that nurses pay, and only require a small amount of nursing care to assist

Care homes have a vacancy level of about 100,000. Where are they going to recruit these untrained people and who is going to train them?

What they need to do is ensure that care homes are properly funded so they can use the beds they already have and deal with the recruitment and retention problem by paying staff decent wages.

 

[Mark T Jones]

It's usually the case that the problem isn't one of hardware or funding, but of admin and process.

Takes me back to about a decade ago - my then girlfriend spent a whole week blocking a bed with a broken ankle.

It was a 2-hour in & out op. Ideally she'd sign into a bed the night before to monitor, but that wasn't wholly necessary.

She lived a mile from the hospital - there were numerous people (including me) who could get here there with 15 minutes notice.

However, the process said that to be available for the op, she had to be on a ward (let's ignore the fact that waiting a week for an op was causing more potential problems). She lay for a week; costing the taxpayer money and wasting a bed.

That's not a one off; that's the core problem that the NHS has.

 

[japancool]

It's usually the case that the problem isn't one of hardware or funding, but of admin and process.

Takes me back to about a decade ago - my then girlfriend spent a whole week blocking a bed with a broken ankle.

It was a 2-hour in & out op. Ideally she'd sign into a bed the night before to monitor, but that wasn't wholly necessary.

She lived a mile from the hospital - there were numerous people (including me) who could get here there with 15 minutes notice.

However, the process said that to be available for the op, she had to be on a ward (let's ignore the fact that waiting a week for an op was causing more potential problems). She lay for a week; costing the taxpayer money and wasting a bed.

That's not a one off; that's the core problem that the NHS has.

Same thing happened to me. When I had my amputation, I was in hospital for 2 week waiting for it. It was cancelled 4 times.

In the end, they said, go home, we'll schedule it in for a fixed time and you can come in the morning.

 

[KM-Tiger]

Care homes have a vacancy level of about 100,000. Where are they going to recruit these untrained people and who is going to train them?

I gather 60,000 of those are already trained but were sacked for refusing an experimental vaccine. Now the vaccine has been shown to be both ineffective and dangerous. I don't understand why there has not been an effort to reinstate them.

 

[japancool]

I gather 60,000 of those are already trained but were sacked for refusing an experimental vaccine. Now the vaccine has been shown to be both ineffective and dangerous. I don't understand why there has not been an effort to reinstate them.

Nonsense. The vaccine has proved to be both safe and effective.

 

[Newchodge]

I gather 60,000 of those are already trained but were sacked for refusing an experimental vaccine. Now the vaccine has been shown to be both ineffective and dangerous. I don't understand why there has not been an effort to reinstate them.

Would they want to be reinstated? They have probably all found better paid jobs.

 

[OMGVape]

I bet most of these bed blockers have family. How about grabbing them by the collar and saying "come and get granny from hospital - and take care of him/her/it/them".

 

[japancool]

I bet most of these bed blockers have family. How about grabbing them by the collar and saying "come and get granny from hospital - and take care of him/her/it/them".

Many of them don't. I've met a number of people who were either homeless or lost their homes while they were in hospital. Those people can't be discharged until a home has been found for them and appropriate care has been arranged.

 

[Newchodge]

I bet most of these bed blockers have family. How about grabbing them by the collar and saying "come and get granny from hospital - and take care of him/her/it/them".

After, of course, ensuring they have a spare bedroom, accessible bathroom facilities, a safe bed the radio yesterday had someone pointing out their mother was a bed blocker because the hospital bed they had for her at home did not have any rails and she had been readmitted to hospital 4 times after falling from the bed.

 

[KM-Tiger]

The vaccine has proved to be both safe and effective.

Unfortunately it hasn't.

Doesn't prevent infection.
Doesn't prevent transmission.
The evidence of damage to recipient's health is now at a level that would mean the vaccine would not be approved for use.

I've had 3 doses (seemed like a good idea at the time) but most certainly will not have any more.

 

[paulears]

Here in Belfast, the NHS is pretty much for residents. Their version of the English phone system fails as soon as they say are you a resident? Then, the only solution is to go to A&E and join the cue - for a sore throat, period pains, flu, tonsillitis etc. I've been using private doctors for my people at £100 a shot, phone consultation and prescription. Mostly antibiotics and analgesics.

With the nurse shortage on top, it's broken!

 

[japancool]

Unfortunately it hasn't.

Doesn't prevent infection.
Doesn't prevent transmission.
The evidence of damage to recipient's health is now at a level that would mean the vaccine would not be approved for use.

I've had 3 doses (seemed like a good idea at the time) but most certainly will not have any more.

You clearly don't understand how vaccines work.

What damage to health? Serious side effects are extremely rare and can happen with ANY vaccine.

I can't be bothered to debate this, count me out.

 

[DontAsk]

Now the vaccine has been shown to be both ineffective and dangerous.

Rubbish.

 

[KM-Tiger]

I can't be bothered to debate this, count me out.

There is nothing to debate, the evidence is out there if you care to look.

 

[Mark T Jones]

After, of course, ensuring they have a spare bedroom, accessible bathroom facilities, a safe bed the radio yesterday had someone pointing out their mother was a bed blocker because the hospital bed they had for her at home did not have any rails and she had been readmitted to hospital 4 times after falling from the bed.

That is another extreme

How about we start with the easy/obvious one - getting people out of beds who neither want nor need to be there?

If it doesn't fix the problem it will certainly take a big bite out of it.

 

[Newchodge]

That is another extreme

How about we start with the easy/obvious one - getting people out of beds who neither want nor need to be there?

If it doesn't fix the problem it will certainly take a big bite out of it.

I think that is already being done. Those who have family who can look after them at the patient's own home or in the relative's home are already there. The problem is those who do not need a hospital bed or hospital nursing bit do need professional care or support, including equipment that assists them. The woman talking about her mother merely needing bed rails was told there were only 2 people who could make that assessment, and one of those was on long term leave - no assessment, no provision. Just trusting the daughter to explain what was needed is not on the agenda.

 

[Paul Kelly ICHYB]

Good idea, but lifts tend not to be big enough and H&S issues could appear when dealing with things like oxygen.

 

[japancool]

I was once in hospital for a month just so I could receive antibiotics several times a day.

After a month, they finally altered my antibiotics regime so I could receive them at home (a nurse turned up every day to give me my IV shot).

I think I was worse when I left hospital than when I went in.

 

[DontAsk]

After, of course, ensuring they have a spare bedroom, accessible bathroom facilities, a safe bed the radio yesterday had someone pointing out their mother was a bed blocker because the hospital bed they had for her at home did not have any rails and she had been readmitted to hospital 4 times after falling from the bed.

The hospital seems happy to discharge her four times, so why do the family not buy the bed rails?

 

[Newchodge]

The hospital seems happy to discharge her four times, so why do the family not buy the bed rails?

I have no idea. They may need to be a specific health service spec to match the bed.

 

[estwig]

The hospital seems happy to discharge her four times, so why do the family not buy the bed rails?

Make something out of 2" x 2", an A frame arrangement that could be moved to and from the bed as required.

I'm not being flippant, it wouldn't take much to make, but it does imply common-sense, which isn't as common as believed!

 

[Newchodge]

Make something out of 2" x 2", an A frame arrangement that could be moved to and from the bed as required.

I'm not being flippant, it wouldn't take much to make, but it does imply common-sense, which isn't as common as believed!

And manual ability.

 

[Bob Morgan]

3 Amazon Sheds are becoming vacant - Warehousing for Asylum Seekers and NHS Bed Blockers?

 

[estwig]

3 Amazon Sheds are becoming vacant - Warehousing for Asylum Seekers and NHS Bed Blockers?

Too good for them.....Do these places have car parks?

 

[IanSuth]

Ok i have several bit of extra info on this (but no answers)

My sort of step brother (biological fathers 3rd wife's son) is currently undergoing chemo to shrink a lung tumour pre surgery (no he doesnt smoke and it recurrence of one removed before which attached itself to heart and lung), he has moved back in with them as he is allowed to stay at home as long as within 1hr of the hospital - it helps is mum is actually a care worker so they are happy she has the skills to support him.

My daughter (as i have said before) is doing a physio degree and her mate is doing Occupational Therapy. To graduate and be qualified they need to complete 1000 hours unpaid work experience (helping out the NHS), there is only 1 person at the Uni qualified and with access to the correct IT system to deal with the expenses funding for the placements - without that you can't book to stay in nurses accommodation or know you are going to otherwise be able to claim back travelling expenses. Because the NHS is stretched they didnt get the placements for january sorted before she went off for leave on Dec 9th and after that date nobody could get a new sign off. She didnt return until last Tuesday and had every wed off plus is part time finishing at 3 each day - NO ONE ELSE can use the system or has the clearance/login (apparently it is impolite to say what about if she got run over)

Those who unlike my daughter couldnt just risk saying "yes" to the 3 "take it of leave it first come first served" placement offers emailed in mid december will have to complete their placement hours after their final exams (delaying their full qualification)

I made her say yes to an offer just listed as "Croydon" in the hope she could commute from my mum in Sussex by train (no other info was given such as exact location until after you had accepted) due to that and the rail strikes I actually drove 620 miles last Tue-Fri ferrying her between my mums and her placement whilst working remote - most would not have that option.

The system from training to patient is clunky and broken but largely as there are too few resources in certain places which are causing the inefficiencies and problems for all

 

[tony84]

I think there is a bit more to this than is being made out.
My Mrs works in a care home and they have a contract with the NHS. Its not uncommon more or less every week for her to come home and basically say a certain hospital sent someone to them and within 24-48 hours they are back in hospital as they were discharged too soon.

 

[ethical PR]

Apparently there are 400 hotels currently being used for asylum seekers and anther 200 have been put on standby. I bet there's quite a few UK residents who could make use of a warm room and a nice meal these days let alone using them to empty out a few hospital wards, but hay don't worry the government have all under control

Do get it right. You mean the asylum seekers living in awful conditions in hotels for many years with little if any access to cooking facilities, and nowhere for their children to do their homework/play. they are only entitled to £8.24 per week to cover clothes, non-prescription medication and travel. They are not eligible for mainstream benefits.

 

[MBE2017]

Do get it right. You mean the asylum seekers living in awful conditions in hotels for many years with little if any access to cooking facilities, and nowhere for their children to do their homework/play. they are only entitled to £8.24 per week to cover clothes, non-prescription medication and travel. They are not eligible for mainstream benefits.

People can paint this in whichever way they want. I’m sure some asylum seekers are living in awful conditions, and a few in relatively luxurious standards compared to some.

The whole system is being overrun by sheer numbers atm, the authorities seemingly placing anyone where they can get spaces, with no regard to the locals or asylum seekers requirements.

In my area, a large country house was going to have 400 asylum seekers placed in its facilities, in a village of approx 300. The village is approx ten miles from any major town, has a single road, a car sales site and a single pub. Quite what they expected the asylum seekers to do after exploring the admittedly attractive grounds of the house is beyond myself.

The decision has been put onto the back burner for the time being, but not overturned. Another large hotel nearby has 300 asylum seekers on the edge of a large town, near schools, doctors and shopping facilities. Most keep themselves in the grounds, I meet a few out walking in the evenings and found most to be polite etc. I think what scares many is the large groups many travel in, since many have no decent English, they tend to group together.